oh, oh, oh i hello and welcome to redact its navy p. i'm naomi care vonny. julian assange is a waiting expedition to the united states, which journalists and civil rights advocates, c as a death sentence for journalism, accountability for u. s. war crimes, basic civil liberties, and not to mention julian assange, the u. s. says astonishes on trial for endangering lives. pretty sure that the u. s. or the guys with the missiles and the wiki leeks guy had a website. well, we still gotta find out how he did it. was it square space to go deeper into the unprecedented case against assange?

i'll talk to journalist mohammed l mossey mohammed l mozy is the founder and editor of the new site. the interregnum has by lines in the canary, jacobin the grey zone and the real news. then we'll go to corresponding anders lee with some mind blowing old news about how sweet an almost me to turn towards real socialist economic policy in the 1980s, but was stopped by a very popular musical group. first, here's my interview with mohammed o mossey. hello and welcome mohammed. it's so great to have you on to talk about this. so before we get into the charges, let's go through a short history of sanchez captivity. can you help us go through it? for 1st he was at the ecuadorian embassy, then he was at bell marsh prison, and now he faces the extradition to the united states. and what are the conditions that he experienced in the u. k? yes, so from 2012 to 2019 trauma. if i recall correctly,

he was in the embassy. and since then he's been taken out and he's in bel marsh prison, which is if you like a maximum security prison. one of britain's no more notorious prisons, some during the guantanamo bay of the best to the guantanamo bay britons guantanamo bay. that's correct. as some people know as, and that's where also people convicted or suspected of murder or terrorism. serious terrorism charges have also been held there and continued to be held there. and during this period, the one working group on arbitrary detention passes opinion that julian sands was being arbitrarily detained. on the basis that there were multiple forces essentially compelled him to go there and prevented him from leaving. can you talk

to us a little bit about how the u. k. authorities were cooperating with american officials to prosecute assigned, and were they doing it enthusiastically? were they under pressure it seems that they were from what we know quite enthusiastically, assisting the u. s. government, for example, when, according to various freedom of information releases, we've seen the e mails from the u. k. from british prosecutors to swedish prosecutors telling them as early as what 20122011 not to come to the u. k. to interview julian us on. so they were actively discouraging them, which is something that they have done previous cases. and julian had said that he was willing to be interviewed in the u. k. that his only concern of going back to sweden was that he was led to believe that there was a secret indictment against him, that he would ultimately be rendered from sweden to the u. s. that,

that the swedish investigation had nothing to do with anything. they alleged to be investigating that, that was focused on getting him secretly to the u. s. where he end up in, in the sort of federal, a isolation or, or for many years. we've also seen that britain played a key role in pressuring the ecuadorian government of lenin moreno to allow the metropolitan police to withdraw julian from the embassy. so they had invited a, there's a, an excellent article from a declassified u. k. which discusses not only a what was in sir allen, duncan's diaries, he's a, a former, is a british politician, former government minister with the foreign office of a conservative party member. and he, he says in his autobiography that, that he pushed the prime minister to sweeten the ecuadorian presidents. they. the article also discusses

a high ranking members of the ecuadorian governments being invited to britain, their, their travel expenses being paid by the british states. and this was all in the lead up to julian ultimately being pulled out from there, pulled up from the embassy. so it's means that they've been quite happy to go along . and to assist us throughout this process, including up to now. yeah, the u. k. they want to show how good of a vassal state they are to the us and show what a good little brother they are. but let's get into those 17 charges which songs faces and faces 175 years in prison. can you give us like an overview of those charges? okay, so 17 out of 18 of those charges all relate to julian and wiki leaks is obtaining and publishing of documents which are primarily known as the again the stand war diaries, the iraq war logs,

the diplomatic cables and the guantanamo bay detainee files. and we've seen documents which discuss the killings of civilians which were sort of covered up also the the practice of, of the use of child prostitutes pre p, bethany children as well. so we're talking about pet ophelia, which was sanctioned, or, or turned a blind eye to, by occupation forces nato forces us forces, which was engaged in by u. s. allies. in gamma. stan, ironically, heat. the taliban had had put an end at least formerly, legally, to certain practices which sort of researched after the occupation that's known as so called dancing boy tradition. where young children are, boys would then dance in front of various ban and then they get purchased thereafter. and of course treatment of prisoners in guantanamo bay. so that's the

kind of thing that we're looking at. yeah, i'd imagine these things were published. go ahead. yeah, i just wanted to mention, i think it's interesting that the indictment focuses on a lot of things that have not withstood the test of time. and you know, the, it's hard to be sympathetic to the u. s. when they're talking about the detainee videos and interrogation videos, when all of those methods have been discredited. after wiki leaks, release the afghan documents, you know, all major news sites and newspapers were running stories about how bad the warn afghanistan is. and so it's interesting that the indictment mentions all this, but i, it's hard to be sympathetic with that case. will the way there angle is that a, some of these documents contains the identities of sources of

u. s. government sources. and this put them in harm's way, and they say also that some of them they couldn't get into contact with them and they don't know. although they can't establish if they harm came to them as a result of the documents being published. that's what they allege. of course they had on was a year and advanced knowledge that these documents would be published because wikileaks informed them and they were going through redactions, i think, is also important for people to know that crypt tom which is a u. s. based site had published originally published the full on redacted diplomatic cables, which are extensively contained the names of certain sources. but they have never been prosecuted. which is interesting because they're based in the united states. so it doesn't seem to really be about that, even though that's what they allege. and if they wanted to, they could have excluded all the documents. that list the kinds of things that i described, but they haven't like the, it's about the whole trove of all these documents, the obtaining them and the publishing them as you say,

new york times the guardian washington post also reported on these documents. yeah . and one prizes for them, of course. ah, yeah, i wanted to talk specifically about the, the charge to commit intrusion into a computer and the conspiracy to commit computer intrusions. what, what is, what exactly does that mean when they say that in the indictment? so one of the charge is one of the 18 charges, a 17 or under the 1917 espionage act law that was passed or 1917 which should targeted a people who opposed entry to the 1st world war as well as potential spies. although it seems to be primarily have used against people who, who spoke out against u. s. involvement. and the 1st world war i'm at one of the charges is under the computer fraud and abuse act. if i recall correctly. if that's the correct act,

that's the come conspiracy to commit computer intrusion. basically, they alleged that julian engaged a that chelsea manning who leaked the documents in question to juliana to wiki lakes. i had asked julian for help, assisting her to crack a password hash and they discussed this. and then eventually julian or whoever it is that chelsea manning was speaking to that the u. s. government alleges was julian, but somebody at wikileaks had said, sorry, we can help you with this. basically, we've looked at it, we can help you. and the u. s. government said, okay, well, this discussion is a conspiracy to commit to computer intrusion. the fact that they couldn't do it, or they came back and said, no, it's not possible that's irrelevant or, or that something that has to be decided by jury in the us. and that's the key part of this, the so called hacking charge. after key evidence expert testimony, a was presented that said, look, this was just about helping chelsea manning gain access to

a video gaming and entertainment site that was blocked to you as soldiers. and that chelsea manning was known for her by her colleagues for getting at gaining access to such things. and they actually had a u. s. military expert. 15 years near the armed forces, a investigator who, who knew the computer system, produced a, a report saying that that the defense is argument or position was consistent with the facts and the u. s. government wasn't, they then expanded the computer intrusion, charged included, julian going to certain hacking conventions and saying to people, hey, if you've got something, you know, pass it on, we're interested in an and serious documents that i have ethical concern. basically, we have to go to a quick break, but stay right there and we'll be back with some more show. ah

ah, working hammer shirts in the back. she popped in. she said, well, i'm getting ready to go shopping for christmas. and i wish there was a girl to buy another, shooting another safe part of american life shattered by violence. the gunman was armed with an hour 15, semi automatic rifle. when the issue comes home, it's time to act. when we're filing on this issue, the other side winds. by default, the lady that lived over there. i was walking one of the dogs, which is why do you wear again? were you scared with nothing they took it off of it. i think the people need to take responsibility in their own and be prepared if those kinds of weapons were less available. we wouldn't have a lot of the shootings that we certainly wouldn't have. the number of deaths

in colorado became a test bed for medical and then later recreational marijuana and it started with some things. so in a saying, i was wanting to socialize, everybody does it? so i cannot and then it just keeps going and going and going. i'm just going to do it was yeah. and that it's oh i'm just going to try this. why said never do it again because they want my phone with them on and i have you right on inside. okay . and you surround yourself with people who are encouraging you to do it not to stop or it's all my life was over, jumped office about the balcony and died. she knew you just couldn't stop with

the welcome back. i'm named carol bonnie and this is for adapted tonight v i p. now let's go to the rest of my interview with mohammed al monte. how is this you sort of this application of the act unique using it against the songs we've seen whistleblowers being charged under the espionage act, of course, like totally manning and recently daniel hell was charged with violating this 917 law. so can you talk a little bit about that? so the charges filed in the eastern district of virginia, same with those against edward snowden and jeffrey sterling, former c, i, intelligence officer and, and john kerry, aku former c. i officer. and i think bill benny and, and thomas drake as well. and that's because it has, i think,

a 100 percent conviction rate and 99.999 percent conviction rates on the jury comes from the, the local community which is the national security apparatus. the department of defense, the cia, the f, b i a various weapons contractors. so the jury will be either active serving members, retired members or their family members of the national security state, which makes it quite unusual because they could, they could fall indictment in any in any jurisdiction. they choose to fall under the espionage act in that jurisdiction for that precise reason. or if he is indeed prosecuted if this prosecution continues and he's exit i to the united states, he will be the 1st ever publisher prosecuted under the espionage act. so bear in mind, this is not somebody who is a us citizen, he was not present in the us. when he, he obtained or published the documents. he never took an oath of office or

a pledge of allegiance to n a u. s. agency, nor did he ever sign any confidentiality agreements. he indeed has no obligation to the u. s. government, and yet they are seeking to apply the u. s. espionage act against a journalist and publisher. who is located outside of the united states for actions who took outside of the united states, which would normally be covered under the 1st amendment. so it's yeah, very disconcerting for. yeah, but i think, yeah, there's a number of unprecedented things going on here. you have that, it's a, a foreign journalist and you have the fact that they're targeting his, his publishing. so let's, let's talk about how independent reporters and news organizations should be really concerned about this. what should they be alarmed by? well, it's the extra territorial application of u. s. law. normally something people associated with imperialism, right? so for example, if a u. s. citizen,

or anybody else killed somebody outside of your jurisdiction, normally you can't be tried rights for actions that have occurred externally. thus, in a separate legal jurisdiction. but yet for some reason with the espionage act, we're saying that he can be, ah, and well imagine if the situation was reversed. if it was china, let's say i had or you had published documents, exposing waste, fraud, abuse, criminality, and other internal machinations of the chinese mackwood security. you and rene ha and you were published, you did so in the united states and then when you were visiting, i don't know you're in the philippines say. and then the chinese issue an arrest warrant for you between you and the at, towards the filipino government to get you expedited to china. and now you're facing what a 100 years or a 170 years, which is what he faces new s on since only 5 of for having obtained and published chinese national defense documents or other top secret in his case wasn't even top

secret as like secrets yes, like low level classification. yeah, that's the argument was one thing that struck me was the rules of engagement, which is not a very secret document. right? well, apparently it is to them also because one of the things with the rules of engagement is what it shows is what the us soldiers were allowed to get away with. right? because this is their rules of engagement. so when you're saying, ah, did these people. ready of violate the policy that they're being told. first of all, what policy they're being told that helps for you to understand as a journalist or observer, whether or not a the rules of engagement comport with the laws of war. now it's known as international humanitarian law for the same thing and, and whether or not the soldiers or even adhering to those rules of engagement. and that's among the documents like your rights that they're, they're charging him for, revealing, or for publishing. he didn't reveal anything, it was chelsea manning the at least the documents as wikileaks which published them

. so there are bowers or what kind of move over to a little bit of speculation. what do you think this trial is going to look like? you mentioned earlier that the charges really surround this accusation, that he, he endangered the lives of afghani civilians who were giving information to the u. s. military. would that be the strongest evidence that the government would have against them? well 1st let me say that there's all kinds of appeals or so be lodged both against the u. s. government victory at the high court recently, but also in terms of other aspects that they lost at, at the magistrates court such as the politically motivated trial, that he wouldn't get a fair trial in the states, et cetera, et cetera. so the, so we're looking at a couple more years, potentially, of appeals intruding up to the european court of human rights. but were he to be expedited to the united states? no, the united states does. the u. s. government won't have to say anything about anybody being injured or disappeared. they don't have proof that anybody's been injured.

yeah, and number one, number 2 is not if they did have that we heard about and working with you. yeah, the is all just a new window, an allegation that just gets republished by certain outlets. they don't have no, there it is actually not a criminal offense to, to publish the identity of a source. i mean, also like what am i, as a non us citizen obligated to protect the source of the cia like, that'd be weird or what could the russian government than say, the same thing if i real real the source of the f s b or, or you know, or the iranian until intelligence service, et cetera, et cetera. so that's, but there is no that law a, such a law was debated in congress and it failed to pass. right? so in fact the prosecutor could stand up and say in court before the jury, if julians expedited a we accept that nobody was injured by anything published by weekly acts. we 100 percent accept that and it would not matter because these are strict liability

offences, motive and intentions don't matter. in fact, of julian says, yes i did publish x, but the reason i published it is because it reveals the prosecutor could stand up and say, objection, his motive is irrelevant and what the documents revealed or relevant. all that matters is did he publish ex wines a document? they don't even need to go into the details. what is and documents? and that's it. and from past practice, including the case of a daniel ellsberg, when he was being prosecuted, the espionage act, the judge will say, objections, the saint, your motives don't matter what was inside the documents, doesn't matter, doesn't matter, even it revealed criminality. and that's how the espionage act is worded, of course. and daniel ellsberg case, he was a whistleblower who had signed confidentiality agreements business. the lesser whistleblower tucson just isn't the whistleblower. he doesn't work with us government, his journalist, but he would be subject to the same procedures. so that is another very disturbing aspect of this case is that your intentions don't matter. there's no public

interest defense. you can't, there is no public interest exception in the law and you'll get a national security jury with a 100 percent conviction rate and the eastern district of virginia. so that's what you would face and that's what he faces. well, thank you so much. mohammed for coming out today and, and getting into the trial it's, it's really an interesting case in a very unprecedented case, and thank you so much for coming out and explaining it to us. thank you for inviting me. next up. it's time for some mind blowing all news. our residents scandinavian correspondent anders li, brings us a story about how the nation of sweden almost turn socialists on the 19 eighties and what it had to do with the pop band abba to find out. here's anders way. the this is a story about a monumental clash between socialism and one of its greatest enemies disco in 1982

. after a 6 year respite from governing sweden, the social democratic party was swept back into power, led by prime minister olaf palmer scene here with his smoking body. fidel castro. i can't help that question. palmer's taste, being around hundreds of cuban cigars and still going with cigarettes. now after world war 2, sweden had seen a steep increase in their standard of living thanks to their role in rebuilding europe and a militant labor movement. which by the eighty's, had gotten to nearly 80 percent unionization swedes were content. they had their funnel cakes, their meat balls, and their pickled fish to. but despite the relative prosperity, sweden's private wealth was concentrated. the vast majority of it in the hands of just 15 families. to address this, the socialist economist, rudolph minor, introduced the minor player a very bold move when you consider how skin navient are so humble that many of our homeland it's illegal to name things after yourself. the restaurants, there are all named after the food. you can't name kids after yourself,

so they just make names up. where do you think helga came from? the original plan was a strident attempt to socialize sweden's economy. it would have mandated that large companies put 20 percent of their annual profits into 13 wage earner funds run by and for workers from 13 different industrial shockers. those funds would then be divided between reinvesting and companies. further increasing the share owned by workers in financing, research, expertise, education and training for workers to assist them in the running of their companies . over time, this would have let unions and workers take over corporate boards and eventually own and operate the companies themselves. my dear understood that it's not enough to regulate and tinker with capitalism or ad patting to the worker, crushing machines. if you want to truly democratic society, you need a truly democratic economy. as one mainstream economist warmed at the time. within 5 years,

the funds would control most of swedish industry. the market economy would cease to exist as anyone who's been watching succession knows rich, people hate themselves, but they do love their wealth, which is why in sweden they weren't exactly thrilled about giving it up. the minor point became part of the social democratic parties platform just as they were voted out of office in 1976. by the time they were ready to return to power in 1082, sweden's ruling class was prepared. they launched a counter offensive to protect sweden's most profitable companies, several of which were owned by the infamously, cruel and powerful capitalist cabal. abba, yes, the band abba, whose song dancing queen. you've definitely heard if you watched a movie about the 70s or bench, the curio key bar around anyone who's drunk and over 50. and i'm sorry if my mentioning that song gets stuck in your head for the next year or so. abba had balked swedish cultural norms by becoming a flashy em oddest international pop sensation,

which was probably for the best. it shouldn't be controversial say that i scanned it. adrian's could stand to lighten up a bit, but then they had to go and violate the good parts of scanner, navy and culture by becoming hard core entrepreneurial libertarians. classic disco story. as the bands manager stig anderson said at the time, the funds are just a device that the unions can get power. they will be disastrous for the country. it is ridiculous to think that they could take care of the money better than aust professionals. if that action isn't perfect, it's because i'm actually norwegian abil threatened to leave sweden if the minor plan was passed and held a series of anti socialist concerts, leading up to the 1982 election. i guess an anti socialist music festival is just like a regular music festival, except instead of everyone sharing their drugs in food, their porting and ripping each other off for it. now, in spite of the free market, jim fast, the social democrats once, but the political will,

wasn't there to see miners plan through. while the government did introduce wage earner funds and $984.00, they were extremely watered down. rudolph minor himself described the final product as a pathetic, correct. with most of the key principles of economic democracy, all sale redistribution of capital ownership and solidarity wage policy having been abandoned or substantially undermine the funds were privatized after 992. by a right wing government. when i think of a pathetic rat now will think of ab. oddly enough, the term pathetic read could be easily song to the tune advancing. the minor plan may have ultimately been a failure, but it stands up as an important model for social transition and has even influenced worker ownership proposals in the united states. it also provides a valuable political lesson for socialists that capitalists stop at nothing to prevent us from winning a truly democratic society. even if those capitalists are pop star from sweden. i

matters lee with redacted tonight. that's the show, but don't forget to check out that free exclusive content online are portable dot tv. just scroll down to the redacted night playlist. also check out more content on youtube dot com slash redact tonight until next time. keep fighting. ah, i mean, you must, you know, sort of deleted it in as shown to don't to stand together. we'll continue to stand together against russia, media in germany. repeat some of the errors that we doubtless made, say noticed videos as chunky dawson about their ability to influence other nations, french, u. k. and even latin america and other countries in future than maybe they were to

high from cycle alone with members of your household. please, please, please, please. we are to continue to fight with donia. you just need to rush, you must not be allowed in germany. i don't want you to call me and leave it social ought to be an outdated innovation. the 5 and the yes actually ended out the innovation, mrs. guns until sunday technology is a very big industrial and there's a lot of opportunities for to live in that it's not here, right, but he didn't bring the law in the country you're dealing with why rest in? the major cybersecurity challenge is the sovereignty of laws. but cyberspace has no borders, new sovereignty, we ended up with, for example, the national health service in the u. k. the and a chest was completely wiped out from a ransomware attack. if you were coming into

a clinic, because you had a test or you had an operation, they can't find your records. they had to go back to pen and paper. a with hello, i'm manila chad. you're tuned into in question. we're live at r t america headquarters in washington, d. c. these are the top stories of the day. first, russian president vladimir putin takes on the international media and his annual price free. think i made growing tension between moscow and the wac will bring you all the latest with analysis. plus the james web space telescope will be launched this weekend will tell you why this launch is so important. and our sports.