round of confrontation on the continent say that well, take it now and join by krista toys, get a long time advisor to german chancellor angle america. and like the chairman of the munich security conference. and i say it's great to see you. great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you very much. i. it's a pleasure to meet them to be with you. the minute security conference is one of the top platforms for discussing difficult security dilemmas. and your chairmanship comes at a time of the most accurate disagreements gets in russia and the west, over your crane and a host of other issues. i wonder, why would you even want this job? what are your aspirations? no, my ratings are exactly for the reason that the unique security conference was established and that is talk, talk and meet and discuss and new security conference all for this opportunity. we

are very fortunate to have had over the last years a representatives from all over the world. and we are very happy to have president, but also as a record for a week. so we're looking forward to having a meeting and and because this is one of the problems i think we ought to experience in official, in our private lives that we don't have enough conversations or so. oh, well, i think that's a least of our challenges for the time being given the scope of problems that exist at russia and the west. i you said in the recent interview with speaking that you have eliminated the term. the last from you of

a cabul larry. what do you have replaced it when we all remember the east west confrontation calling for the cold war and it in 199991 and we don't have more and we all have them to have a world that is not confrontational. and what i hope is that i know that it is something from the, from the past. what right now should be the orientation line is the international space order. it is the charter, united nations, the universal declaration of human rights. and that is what should be the orientation law and not the thinking in no categories of the last century. well, you're being very diplomatic in this interview, but in your interview,

that speaking, i think you were quite a more direct and you said that it's only about a dispute between the west and the east. but between states that up here as you sat here, rules based international order to the united nations charter to the universal declaration on human rights. and those that do not know who all what i do is do's and don'ts during the wasn't the security council between midnight tonight we. i was the place. it was after the 2nd one or 2 to maintain peace and security. and there we regularly criticize those countries and then the permanent members of the security council charter off of the united nation. we criticized is the united states for

a embassy there because it's violating a un security council resolution. we criticize your country, russia for the invasion of ukraine, because this is also a trucker. and so this is what we criticize in research. please obeyed by international law. go and accept binding security. when you make it sound that you disperse this criticism evenly in fairly, but from the other interviews, i got a sense maybe i'm mistaken, but i got a sense that you tend to associate germany with one group of countries who supposedly respect all those and norms of behavior and then there is another group of countries that presumably russia and china and all the rest who supposedly don't . is that the wrong impression on my part or you do believe that germany is sort of

associated more with the forces of good and my country happens to be more in the category of that a close 2nd or area. and no matter what to do to the rest of the world with the 1st word reset or we're 20000000 russians the hands of the journey. we committed after the 2nd one or 2 from the law. and this is enshrined in our constitution. and this is trying to day after day a lot, we do it here. you know, we are in, you can go all this period piece in the history of europe and we know resolve our problems in the european union. we don't go to the to the european court of justice

and that's what we say. it don't go to war, but go to school. you don't to go to the court of justice. this is what we preach. please give me an example for germany in here to that printer. well, of course i, i have a couple of examples here, and you mentioned your experience of growing up in, in germany. and in my professional experience, i covered the number of conflicts, including the conflict in libya. as you perhaps know, in that particular case, the you and mandate was greatly overstepped by some of your closest western partners. it's true that germany on that particular vote voting on the resolution 1970 me, abstained and found itself in the same group with russia and china and voted against the preferences of let's say, franz, the united kingdom,

the united states. but that war preceded non de last and turned a relatively stable and prosperous country into essentially a failed state. i don't think we can argue over the fact here. so it is just interesting to me whether again, germany tends to associate itself more with the western camp, even if you don't like the word class, despite the fact that it's been western countries primarily that have been responsible for most of the conflicts as of late. thank you. thank you very much for this example because it shows you know what i tried to say. and as you write it in 2011, when there was a turn to mention a,

a would be due on the country is that we now with our reputation. and we have a lot of credibility in the region while beginning of last year. a that actually led to a situation where now we have a cease fire. yeah, no, i think we have a certain political tract. unfortunately, there are still people who are not hearing also to the sanctions and i come back to what we're very even handedly i remember april 2019, when i started is offensive. we try to get a security, a press release conducting it, and the right. now today when you look at the situation, is your country rush,

it violates the id a violated to and we are a lot in the wrong wouldn't get all these we would, we would be in a much better situation despite being a very welcome advocate of arms embark on libya, germany itself has supplied weapons to countries that are intimately involved in that conflict. b, egypt or some other neighbors. simply b i, b, b. we're talking about more than 300000000 years in arm shipments to those countries in this year alone. but i want to ask you a slightly different question because the more strategic that you will have

a lot said arms in 2 areas of conflict, we supply our store in natural predators and otherwise we don't buy. and yes, we apply to the agent by the way, russia also get a lot of troops to provide them with some navy material. and there is no navy cost in the, in the country to live on the side of egypt. so we have not delivered weapons to any of the parties engaged in the company. you have not deliver them directly. there is no direct delivery on to the country to your country that is directly involved in that sense, to walk, to commit crimes with violating international. well, that has to be proven in the court of law unless you believe yourself a document where russia officially is

criticized for sending the militias to to libya. so it's, it's not to be proven. it is proven, believe in intervention without any doubt created a host of major security challenges for the european continent from and regulated migration to human trafficking, to elicit drug trade. and it's pretty clear that the content will have to bird and we have to deal with this issues for that. if it's not for centuries to come. you like praising germany for abstaining from that crucial vote on that. but don't you think that germany could have done and should have done more to persuade its western allies to persuade its western partners from using that force? in fact, distractive and broadly consequential way, because that intervention 1st and foremost, came back to haunt to europe. yes, i mean, i here with you here with you that this was

not the best actually, this is why we are staying with that. look at the end of the intervention. and as you, as you rightly say, it was a, you remember in 2011, the situation was very bad. there was a civil war, you know, going to ask you, this is true. was marching into what would have happened if the intervention i have not. we don't, i don't think that the time when you look at the, you know, when you look what was right. i think it would have been a big instability in the, in the country anyway. and what we have to do is jointly see to it, we stop that situation and see to it that you know,

the suffering of the people as well. i'm better with all due respect. i was on the ground in guys the back and then i know that many of the western reports were simply false about the killings and the abuses by the army. that was just a lie. manufacturers for the sake of their vents and putting that aside, you said that there was a need to come together. and indeed, the international community seem to come together and russia did not vote against that resolution. china is not well because they have spain. they seem to be willing to join forces with the west for the sake of peace and see what they got out of it. country destroyed and major migration, floss, majoring, stability, malicious running all around the continent. do you think that was just a misfortune or do you think that could be some strategic last sense? drawn from that effort on the part of russia and china and you know,

many to work together with the west on solving a conflict in a country. again, you know, i, i read you know, the west, but i do agree with you on what you said before is reason to sit together and work together and see on how to live. yeah. and can you prevent it? you know, this is coming back to your opening question. this is what the unit security part is also about. people come together, we have our chinese partners community, and i don't see how we can resolve what i can for me. what i said earlier to this, the best thing to resolve conflicts is go by the rule of law and say, what international law it says about situations and follow a lot. well, ambassador, we have to take a short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments station. ah

ah ah, with a in a

hello this in . there's things we dare to ask. ah ah, welcome back to ones. of course, if you're still voice, get elected chairman of the munich security conference ambassador, just before the break, we were talking about the rules based international order. and in fact,

you use these terms or rules based international order on the un charter interchangeably as if they were synonyms. but legally speaking, they're not because states signed and ratify. the un security chart there, where is what you call a rules based international order is really in the eyes of the beholder, or in the eyes of the most part. why do we need a rules based international order? when we have international law isn't, isn't it easier and less than big years to just comply with the letter? we have the un charter, you know, this is the in the university, right? these are the documents, you know, documents after work or worse catastrophe. and i think this is based on, based on, you know, the un security council resolutions that have been adopted,

but also that on trees with also that, you know, to fight this is all the international rules based order. so in treaties all this, all to that. so this is, this is for very, very important. if you are not criticizing germany, let me also turn around and say on, on your credit, you know, we started with on ukraine. we had, this is part of the route base international order. we have a rusher guarantee, a warranty and integrity of your crane, and you gave up it's nuclear weapons in return. and then russia invaded ukraine. and despite the fact that this was

a good of this memorandum was by officially transmitted to the security council represented. or there was a lot today, the foreign minister in russia is i think this would have to run every day. and that's if you make it sound as if i russia, as you said, invaded the ukraine because it had nothing to do. but you know that the security situation, any crane, i was very intimately connected to russia, security interest and would have passed. memorandum is not the only document that it was broken and she's not the only side that broke a previous arrangements. there were many promises given to russia with regards to need to enlarge mand after the cold war. and they were also many promises given to russia by the german, many of the german politicians who are pretty open about it. in that memo or the

berlin wall will not be moved. the virtual girl in walls will not be moved ever closer to russia. but this is one of the things that i also wanted to ask you about . because i'm sure in the korean conflict, this is something that you will have to deal with a lot. once you come to the chairmanship of the minute security conference, you were one of the architects of the minster graham and unit gosh 8. and on behalf of germany on behalf of angle america, how do you think that agreement still stands? a slide is cancer being implemented? there is when you look at the text again, it's it exactly a 72 hours for a cease fire to start. the problem was that after 2 hours,

the russian course is continued their take on the, on the, on the strategic point because they were not able to conquer that during the time that you were given. and this is a basic flaw that the ukrainians and then we went to the product. you're so sick with russia didn't do the 1st thing we don't trust it was draw heavy weapons for. ready the never did that and so it was very hard to convince the ukrainians to do their part. i still believe that the ministry agreements are the agreements that the basis but it has to be on both sides and both sides have to so the ukrainians have to do there. but there is the country that was invaded, you know, so therefore they have to trust the russian that the russian, your work. and we see that on the always see monitors that have also been

a good base in the wrong. they are, every day there they have to do their job, they cannot go to the order with rusher control. they are shipment from russia to do that. so there are many, many flaws on the russian side. and then it's difficult to convince your grand, say ok your to, to do your, your site now. and that's one of the reasons why the ukrainian country has been so difficult to solve it. because it's, it's such a complex next on cultural, economic, security and political military considerations, which are ultimately rooted in the post cold war realities, all their debilitated militarily and economically debilitated. russia. and since you don't like the term west and expanding neighborhoods, expanding nato, despite all the assurances that were given to moscow by the german leadership, the time of german unification. now, these realities,

this is something russia is no longer going to accept. it will of provided security whether they wore the west once it or not. but i wonder how does this look to you? do you think post cold war security arrangement is still viable? when you go back in the ninety's, there was no longer the cold war. and in the ninety's, there were nato, the european union grew stretching out there to to rusher and all of that. and you know, for me, so the republics and they were agreement signed were on cooperation. and so there was not this contradiction. and it, we came back into the conversation with president putin, when he took off it. and there are no tweak it. there's nothing in there is coming to treat you where it was said that nato cannot expand beyond if

you, if you specific issues which have to do with this drum unit cation and, and now, and there's one thing that i would like to highlight because it said that, you know, nato is reaching out to, to ukraine and when one of the major fights. busy had with president bush junior, was in 2008, the so called bucharest summit. at that stage. the united states actually wanted for georgia and ukraine to get nato membership to start the so called membership action plan. and it was germany that stop that. and then said, no, we don't want to do that because these countries will not add to the stability of nato, which is one of the prerequisites in the,

in the nato treaty. and there is no move towards ukraine membership. there is a respect this intervention on the part of germany and chancellor in particular, and did not the united states from supplying weapons to crane or sending its military advisors or from interfering very rudely in the ukrainian politics. we may argue about the facts and waste our time on that, but i think what we're looking for in russia sent to weapons to, i mean, we just talked about libya and sent weapons into libya is against international law . there is no provision that prevents the united states to support them, your cry, militarily, it's not, it's not, it's not with by talking about international law. we're not talking about the feelings of people here. and this is something that has to be ready. that has to be talked about, that if you rush or withdraw troops on your crane,

i'm sure that there will be no that there would be a solution. but you have to remember it was russia and the aggressor rusher that violated this memorandum, that we just went. i don't want to renegotiate history here. let me ask you a specific question. a question that relates directly to the meaning security conference and your mandate. and these are going to zation because as you know, a few days ago, the kremlin, very directly asked for certain security guarantees, legally binding security guarantees from the united nations from the united states rather and from made up against further expansion. and i know that this, this question, this request has been criticized by many in the west as a totally impossible or excessive. but the vital administration did not dismiss it out of hand. and in fact, they seemed to be quite open to further negotiations with russia on the issue of

strategic stability. i want to ask you, what is there to negotiate? as i said at the very beginning, and you repeated that, and there's a point where we agree. it's always better to, to talk and discuss and see where the interest, where can we, where can we meet the interest? how can we come to a conclusion? i think that one of the big deficits of the big problems i've been corona crisis has been that the people have not been able to meet. i mean, your president has hardly left the 3 chinese president have left the country and the american president to hardly let because they're not enough. me think that the russian president 20 meeting in christian and this is, this is detrimental. we have to have meetings in person that we really hope that munich will give an opportunity when, for instance,

the to foreign ministers to the, to for i master 10 beauty that they can talk to each other and discuss these, these issues. i think it's very good. i agree that the, i don't criticize that the americans are ready to talk with it with their russian counterparts. well, and that's what we have to live in there, but i really appreciate your time and i wish you best of luck in this very challenging endeavor. yes, no, thank you very much. it was very kind of you to, to this interview and i like the open way that we discussed it. so all the best to you, i'm thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on the walls apart. ah, the me, the me

i i mean, you must be in a city dedicated and as shown to don to stand together will continue to stand together against russia even in germany. repeat some of the areas that we doubt this made. they noticed vinitez chunky daughter about their ability to influence other nations, french, u. k. and even latin america and other countries in future, then they knew where to high, wrong cycle alone with members of your household. so please, please, please, please. we have to continue to fight with justin to russia. must not be allowed in germany. i don't want you to call me leave it to show out. so being

out t d enough ation 5. and the yes actually indian ha the enough mrs. guns until sunday. join me every 1st day on the alex salmon. sure. but i'll be speaking to guess from the world of politics, sport business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. ah, the u. s. cobra to respond to his new road blog says test. think about that. he runs out with a daily infection surgeon, 7 fold across some states. we have research and we do need more testing centers. i mean, look at these lines that is, are horrible on it for, you know, most of my friends have to wait on line for hours and hours to get tested. i've had to wait on blinds for hours to get tested brushes for ministry. he says, holding late has expansion will be the top priority at upcoming talks with balance

and the united states.