on this job, what are your aspirations now my aspirations are exactly for the reason that the community security conference was established and that is talk, talk and meet and discuss the new security conference off chris this opportunity. we are very fortunate to have passed over the last years and people the representatives from all over the world. and we are very happy to have had them president routine but also at the regular price. so we are looking for it again under the condition that the damages out a real meeting are much because this is one of the problems i think we ought to experience in official, in our private life that we don't have enough conversation in person. well,

i think that's been a lease of our challenges or their time being given the scope of problems that exist, been at russia and the west i, you said in their recent interview with speaking that you have eliminated the term . the last from the of a cabul larry, what do you have replaced it when we all remember the east west confrontation code for the cold war and it in 199991. and we don't have that more and we all have them to have a world that is not confrontational. and what i hope is that i know that it is something from the, from the past. what right now should be the orientation line, is the international space order. it is the charter, united nations,

the universal declaration of human rights. and that is what should be the orientation law and not the thinking in no categories of the last century. well, you're being very diplomatic in this interview, but in your interview, that speaking, i think you were why more direct and you said that it's only about a dispute between the west and the east, but between states that up here as you sat here, rules based international order to the united nations charter to the universal declaration on human rights. and those that do not know who all what i do is do's and don'ts. during the wasn't the security council between midnight tonight we. i was the place it was after the 2nd one or 2 to maintain peace and security. and there we

regularly criticize those countries and then the permanent members of the security council are charter off of the united nation. we criticize is the united states for a embassy there because i think of a un security council resolution. we criticize your country, russia for the invasion of ukraine, because this is also a trucker. and so this is what we criticize in research. please obeyed by international law. go and accept binding security. when you make it sound that you disperse this criticism evenly and fairly, but from the other interviews, i got a sense maybe i'm mistaken, but i got a sense that you tend to associate germany with one group of countries who

supposedly respect all those and norms of behavior and then there is another group of countries that presumably russia and china and all the rest who supposedly don't . is that the wrong impression on my part or you do believe that germany is sort of associated more with the forces of good and my country happens to be more in the category of that a close 2nd or area. and no matter what to do to the rest of the world with the 1st word reset or we're 20000000 russians the hands of the journey. we committed after the 2nd world war 2 from the school law. and this is enshrined in our constitution and this is try to day after

day a lot, we do it here. you know, we have a long period piece in the history of europe and we know resolve our problems in the european union. we don't go to the to the european court of justice and that's what we say. it don't go to war, but go to come to go to the court of justice. and this is what we preach. please give me an example for germany in here to that printer. well, of course i have a couple of examples here, and you mentioned your experience of growing up in, in germany. and in my professional experience, i covered the number of conflicts, including the conflict in libya. as you perhaps know, in that particular case, the you and mandate was greatly overstepped by some of your closest western

partners. it's true that germany on that particular vote voting on the resolution 1970 me, abstained and found itself in the same group with russia and china and voted against the preferences of let's say, franz, the united kingdom, the united states. but that war preceded non de last and turned a relatively stable and prosperous country into essentially a failed state. i don't think we can argue over the fact here. so it is just interesting to me whether again, germany tends to associate itself more with the western camp, even if you don't like the word last, despite the fact that it's been western countries primarily that have been responsible for most of the conflicts as of late. thank you. thank you very much for the success. it shows you know what i tried to say,

and as you write it in 2011, when there was a turn to mention a, a would be due on the country is that we now with our reputation. and we have a lot of credibility in the region while beginning of last year a that actually led to a situation where now we have a cease fire. yeah, no, i think we have a certain political tract. unfortunately, there are still people who are not hearing also to the sanctions and i come back to what we're very even handedly i remember april

2019, when i started is offensive. we try to get a security, a press release, condemning it, and the right. now today when you look at the situation, is your country right for a, a and we are a lot in the wrong, wouldn't get all these we would, we would be in a much better situation despite being a very welcome advocate of arms and bark on libya, germany itself has supplied weapons to countries that are intimately involved in that conflict. b,

egypt or some other neighbors. and maybe i think be we're talking about more than 300000000 years in our shipments to those countries in this year alone. but i want to ask you a slightly different question because the more strategic that you will be a no arms into areas of conflict. we supply our store in natural predators and otherwise we don't buy. and yes, we apply to you by the way, russia also use a lot of troops to provide them with some navy material. and there is no navy cost in the, in the country to live on the side of egypt. so we have not delivered weapons to any of the parties engaged in the company. you have not deliver them directly. there is no direct delivery on to the country country to your country that is

directly involved in that sense, to walk, to commit crimes with violating international. well, that has to be proven in the court of law unless you believe yourself a document where russia officially is criticized for sending the militias to to libya. so it's, it's not to be proven. it is proven to leave an intervention without any doubt created a host of major security challenges for the european continent from and regulated migration to human trafficking, to elicit drug trade. and it's pretty clear that the content will have to bird and we have to deal with this issues for that. if it's not for centuries to come. you like praising germany for abstaining from that crucial vote on that. but don't you think that and germany could have done and should have done more to persuade its western allies to persuade its western partners from using that force. in fact,

distractive and broadly consequential way, because that intervention 1st and foremost, came back to haunt to europe. yes, i mean, i here with you here with you that this was not the best actually, this is why we are staying with that. look at the end of the intervention as you, as you rightly say, it was a, you remember in 2011, the situation was very bad. there was a civil war, you know, going to ask you, this is true. was marching into what would have happened if the intervention i have not we don't,

i don't think that the time when you look at the, you know, when you look at right. i think it would be the big instability in the, in the country anyway. and what we have to do is jointly see to it, we stop that situation and see to it that you know, the suffering of the people as well. i'm better with all due respect. i was on the ground in guys the back. and then i know that many of the western reports were simply false about the killings and the abuses by the army. that was just a lie manufacturers for the sake of intervention. but putting that aside, you said that there was a need to come together, and indeed, the international community seem to come together and russia did not vote against that resolution. china is not well because they have spain. they seem to be willing to join forces with the west for the sake of peace and see what they got out of it. country destroyed and major migration floss, major instability,

malicious running all around the continent. do you think that was just a misfortune or do you think that could be some strategic last sense, drawn from that effort on the part of russia and china and germany, to work together with the west on solving a conflict in a country. again, you know, i, i read you know, the west, but i do agree with you on what you have said before. if there is reason to sit together and work together and see on how to live. yeah. and can be prevented. you know, this is coming back to your opening question. this is what community security is also about. people come together, we have our chinese partners community, and i don't see how we can resolve what i can for me. what i said earlier

to this, the best thing to resolve conflicts is go by the rule of law and say, what international law it says about situations and follow the international. well, ambassador, we have to take a short break right now, but we will be back in just a few moments. stay tuned. ah ah ah, with a

a, [000:00:00;00] a with ah, it goes to chill. tristan's goal is to chill again. one with which one is a small

with water, with issue machine that it with no, i need to put them on the to feed me power born with ah, welcome back to ones of course mr. still, boys again elected chairman of the munich security conference ambassador just before the break. we were talking about their rules based international order. in fact,

you use these terms or rules based international order on the un charter interchangeably as if they were synonyms. but legally speaking, they are not because they have signed and ratify the un security chart there. whereas what you call a rules based international order is really in the eyes of the beholder, or in the eyes of the most powerful. why do we need a rules based international order? when we have international law isn't, isn't it easier and less than big used to just comply with the letter we have to charge or, you know, this is the, the universal declaration of human rights. these are the basic talk, you know, documents that are the worst catastrophe and human kind, and i think this is the basis. and then on that basis on the un security council resolution, all the resolution that have been adopted on that basis. but also that on

treaties, we've also that have notified all the international rules based order. so in treaties all this you all to that. so this is for very, very important. if you were criticizing germany, let me also turn around and say on, on your claim, you know, we started with on ukraine. we had, this is part of the rules based international order. we have a rusher guarantee to return sovereignty and integrity of ukraine. and you gave up it nuclear weapons in return, and then russia invaded ukraine. and despite the fact that this was a know,

the good of this memorandum was by officially transmitted to the security council represented russia. or that was a lot today the foreign minister and russia is, i really think this would have run every day. and i say you make it sound as if i russia, as you said, invaded the ukraine because it has nothing to do. but you know that the security situation, any crane, i was very completely connected to russia, security interest in budapest. memorandum is not the only document that it was broken and rush is not the only side that broke a previous arrangement. there were many promises given to russia with regards to nato enlargement after the cold war. and they were also many promises given to russia by the german, many of the german politicians who are pretty open about it. in that memoirs that

the berlin wall will not be moved, the virtual girl in walls will not be moved ever closer to russia. but this is one of the things that i also wanted to ask you about. because i'm sure in the ukraine, like this is something that you will have to deal with a lot. once you come to the chairmanship of the minute security conference, you were one of the architects have been instagram and negotiated it on behalf of germany on behalf of angle america. and do you think that agreement still stands as a slightest chance of being implemented? there is when you look at the text to get it exactly a 72 hours for a cease fire to to start. the problem was that after 2 hours,

the russian course is continued their pick on the, on the, on the strategic point because they were not able to conquer during the time that you were given. and this is a basic flaw with the ukrainians. and then we went to the product, you know, your so sit with roger didn't do the 1st thing. we don't trust it was straw heavy weapons for joe. right. you never did that. and so it was very hard to convince the ukrainians to do their cars. i still believe that the agreements are the agreement said the basis, but it has to be on both sides and both sides have to so the ukrainians have to do there. but there is the country that was evaded. so therefore, they have to trust the russian that the right to me see that on the always see monitors that have also been based in the wrong. they

are everything there. they have to do their job, they cannot go to the order with rusher control. they are shipment from russia to do that. so there are many, many flaws on the russian side. and then it's difficult to convince your credit, say ok or to, to do your, your investor. one of the reasons why the ukrainian conflict has been so difficult to solve is because it's, it's such a complex. * next to all our cultural economic, security and political military considerations which are ultimately routed in the post cold war realities, all the debilitated militarily and economically debilitated. russia. and since you don't like the term grass and expanding nato expanding made, despite all the assurances that were given to moscow by the german leadership, at the time of german unification. now these realities,

this is something russia is no longer going check. it will a provided security whether they were and their west wants it or not. but i want to how does it live tv thing, post cold war security arrangement? is it still viable? when you go back in the, in the ninety's, there was no longer the cold war. in the ninety's, there were no need to the european union were stretching out their hand to rusher and all of that. you know, for me. so republics. and there are agreements to wear on cooperation and then so there was not this contradiction. and it, we came back into the conversation with president putin, when he took off it. and there are no creek is there's nothing in there is the tricky where it was said that nato cannot expand beyond if you,

if you specific issues ought to be have to do with the drum unit cation and, and now there's one thing that i would like to highlight, because it said that, you know, nato is reaching out to, to ukraine. and when one of the major fights chance america had with president bush junior, was in 2008, the so called booker it summit. at that stage, the united states actually wanted for georgia and ukraine to get nato membership to start the so called membership action plan. and it was germany that stop that and then said, no, we don't want to do that because these countries will not add to the stability of nato, which is one of the pre act with it's in the nato,

a to treaty. and there is no move towards ukraine membership. there is no you regarding your respect. this is this intervention on the part of germany. and chancellor in particular, did not prevent the united states from supplying weapons to korean or sending its military advisors or from interfering very rudely in the ukrainian politics. we may argue about the facts and waste our time on that. but i think what russia sent the weapons to, i mean, we just talked about libya and sent to libya is against international law. there is no provision that prevents the united states to support your crime militarily. it's not, it's not, it's not with by talking about international law. we're not talking about the feelings of people here. and this is something that has to be relevant has to be talked about. that if you rush or withdraw troops from your crane,

i'm sure that there will be no that there would be solution. but you have to remember it was rush or the aggressor rusher that violated the best number on that we just with. i don't want to renegotiate history here. let me ask you a specific question. a question that relates directly to the munich security conference and your mandate in base organization. because as you know, a few days ago, the kremlin, very directly asked for certain security guarantees, legally binding security guarantees from the united nations from the united states rather and from made against further expansion. and i know that these are the same question, this request that has been criticized by many in the west and totally impossible or excessive, but divide an administration did not dismiss it out of hand. and in fact, they seem to be quite open to further negotiations with russia on the issue of

strategic stability. i want to ask you, what is there to negotiate? as i said at the very beginning, and you repeated that, and there's a point where we agree. it's always better to, to talk and discuss and see where the interest, where can we, where can we meet the interest? how can we come to a conclusion? i think that one of the big deficits of the big problems are big corona crisis has been that the people have not been able to meet. i mean, your president has hardly left the country and chinese president has left the country and the american president hardly left because there are not enough meetings that the russian president, the g 20 meeting and christian. and this is, this is detrimental. we have to have meetings in person that we really hope that munich will give an opportunity when, for instance, the 2 foreign ministers,

the 2 masters 10 uni that they can talk to each other and discuss these, these issues. i think it's very good. i agree that the i don't criticize that the americans are ready to talk with it with their russian counterparts, while ambassador we have to live in there, but i really appreciate your time and wish you best of luck in this very challenging endeavor. yes, no, thank you. very much, it was very kind of you to, to this interview and i like the open way that we discussed it. so all the best to you and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on a was apart on me. the me

i i mean, you must, you know, so did it in as you want to talk to, we stand together. we'll continue to stand together against russia media in germany . repeat some of the areas that we doubtless made. they noticed video as chunky daughter about their ability to influence other nations, french, u. k. and even latin america and other countries in future than maybe knew where to high wrong cycle alone with members of your household, please, please, please, please. we're going to continue to fight with justin to russia must not be allowed in germany. i've already out few common leave it to show us

enough asian the yes. actually indian ha, the in office missiles guns until sunday. our special gaps today. the only in the legendary mich fire sign, author of planet pansy mich. nice to say happy holidays. ah, european nations are hit by reco daily code numbers while protest continue against harsh and new restrictions. in other stories that shape the weekend. you must give us the guarantee it is up to you and you must do it immediately. a potent demands assurances from nato that it was moved by use is closer to russian borders. as the