a chrysler left the keenest. i bought a map with jason ford or municipal got put them in junior was, wasn't it that the appointment was trained yet that if you can squeeze you machine that it would not come in the wash when it gets here? no, i mean, unless you put that amount with the theme is power to store you with with, with

with hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle with 2021 rapidly coming to an end to this time for some reflection. what will we remember about this year? how did our lives change? also? we look forward to the new year. what does 2022 have in store for us? will we be living in interesting times? i cross talking 2021. i'm joined by my guest. georgie brower in bristol, she is deputy leader of the workers party. brittany as well as the author of the drive to war against russia and china. and in paris we cross to john laughlin, he's a university lecture in history and political philosophy, or across hoc rules and effect. that means he can jump in and time you want. i

always appreciate john, let me go to you person in paris some. how did the neo liberal project neoliberalism and as, as an ideology fair in 2021. because i, i would say it did very, very poorly as it should because it's an ideology that durham is collapsing all around us. and every facet of the every facet. it touches go ahead, john. well, i think 2021 was the year in which the, oh well deletes. but i'm not sure that i would call them their liberal and consolidated their grip on power. i'm thinking of course of the, at the beginning of the year when a trump was evicted from the white house and replaced by joe biden, who is an expression, a perfect expression of those deletes and of their grip on power. but if i question the use of the word near, near liberal, which i don't think does apply to them, because i don't think they are liberal anymore in any sense. they're not near liberal or liberal. and they are instead a marxist. so capitalist um, what i mean by that is that there is

a and again this was exemplified at the beginning of the year in january by the now 2nd appearance of teaching ping at the davos swelled economic forum. he originally appeared in 2017 when trump was elected this year he appeared again albeit virtually, and he was welcomed then as before, by couched bob, the head of that forum, who again is a very emblematic figure for these well business cities and shall upset to him you have shown us mister president, the principles which should guide us on our common path. and that phrase expresses this horrible convergence between totalitarian communism of the kind which exists in china, which as we know has a very strong capitalistic element and western capitalism. and that i think is the way to characterize 2021. it's the, it's the end of animal farm. when the pigs and the farmers reconcile and get back

together again over the heads of the animals. that's the world we're living in in 2021. okay. what's got a bristol that's a very interesting take. i think there's a lot of different ways you could approach. i try to go, i had you react about and, and of course, you know, we had still the original question to you. go ahead. oh, well, the thing that i've really noticed about this year is that and capitalism, imperialism, you can call it nick neoliberalism. that to me, it's simply capitalism with the gloves off, you know, and what we call neoliberalism. this era when capitalism imperialism has been taking its gloves off, is really the era of, after the collapse of the soviet union capitalism, the imperialists felt they had to put the gloves on to an extent. they had to grant a lot of concessions to their workers. because of the threat of socialism when they felt that threat recede, they got a huge shot in the arm economically, but also philosophically they fell, emboldened to just do what they wanted to do to act in accordance with the nature

of their system. so i don't really talk about near liberalism, i just talk about imperialism. and, and to me, this year has really exposed the total in humanity and irrationality of the imperialist system. when you have a system where the only rationale for doing anything is will it make a pot of money into a bigger pos of money. and the needs of human beings are nowhere in that equation. and then you have the anarchic nature of production, which is totally irrational. we end up with the situation we've seen this year, whereby we had vaccines produced and actually 1st produced in russia. if there was any sense in the world, the sputnik vaccine would have been distributed globally immediately and ended the pandemic. but that isn't what happened because there's this competition for, for profiteering out of the health crisis, which distorts all of the actions. our governments in the west take there, they're looking at this not as a, primarily a health issue,

but as an issue for business. how to make the most money for big business, for monopoly, and the monopolization of vaccines. you know, the fact that there is this now kind of politics of letting, letting it run run rampant. so there's more variance. so there's an ongoing need for vaccines, rather than getting over in touch with the fact that western countries won't recognize vaccines that don't come from one of the big monopolies. won't give out vaccines cheaply to people who need them, or hoarding them, or putting terrible conditions on to governments before they will let them buy vaccines. are depriving countries of vaccines. you know, this really shows the true in humanity of the system that is run across on, well, i think we have a lot actually a lot in common. i'm little bit surprised here, john, i think also, i mean, i'm glad that be issue covered in the vaccines was brought up here. i mean, not only, of course, from a particularly, an american perspective. i mean, it's a huge amount of money that's being ah, well drained from,

from our working people. and at the same time these locked downs and mandates are punishment enough. but john, it's also about expressions of power and being able to m determined and get your way. i mean, for sure will. anyway, and it's legitimize through a health crisis here. and we all know, we all know that once you lose those rides, they never come back. they never come back. okay. until they come up with the next, you know, and i guess it's going to be the, the new green deal crisis. you know, climate, you know, then again war rights being denied here. it only goes in one direction and it seems to me irrespective your political coloration, all round the world, you know, a little tyrants enjoyed. 2021. john. yeah, i mean i, i agree with some of what the previous speaker said i, i am on the other hand, i think that the imperialist, the specifically imperialist dimension is surely on the wayne at the moment. the, the big event of 2021 is surely the retreat from afghanistan. that is the defeat of

imperialism. of course, the mindset persists, but the fact is, that the united states, the imperialist power, has been routed. now, just as the british empire was routed in the middle of the 19th century from that country, and instead of what i see, i mean, you know, you mentioned monopolies. well firstly, monopolies can't be in the plural by definition. and what we see is a terrible collusion between these big pharmaceutical companies. yes. and states and all in the name of internationalism. in other words, the, the, the, i don't want us to be rude, but the rather sort of primitive socialist analysis doesn't really work. because you have international ism, and very heavy, massive state involvement. it's the states that are buying the vaccines. it's the states that are forcing the vaccines on people, as peter says, at the cost of,

at the terrible cost of personal liberty. there is a collusion between states and big business, which everyone can see and that i'm afraid doesn't fit into a, a standard socialist analysis. because in the socialist analysis normally would be the states that we're standing up to the no, to the big companies. in this case they are colluding and they're colluding in a way that is completely compatible with one world, a globalism one world. internationalism, because everyone's doing the same thing. and in particular, as i said in my 1st remarks, it's between the, the so called capitalist west or the so called west and communist china. that's the collusion it, sir, between western states, a communist states and big business. and they are colluding to establish a world dictatorship. that's really the only way to describe it. j n, and bristle, you wanna respond to that because i think, i think, you know, one of the thing in you and i've had a conversation in the past one on one, when, remember, remember those days, ah, you know, we,

we can go through the lexicon are we want here, but i, i see your point. i see john's here go ahead and react with john. just your said, go ahead. so imperialism. and i would really recommend all of you is to go and read linens, but con imperialism because it's not what people commonly imagine. imperialism is the advanced most developed stage of capitalism. it said it's a world economic system is also known as monopoly capitalism. and yes, you're right, the state has become very powerful, but the state is a state of the monopolies. it acts on behalf of the monopolies. and that as soon as you realize that you, you understand why it takes the decisions it takes in favor of big business constantly and against the interests of the massive people who it pretends to be acting on behalf of it acts on behalf of the monopolies. you know, i'm the committed earlier that, sorry this, the speaker before said earlier that m r, you know, the, the way the state behaves is good as kind of socialist. but actually,

if you read capital, if you read marx, he was pointing out 150 years ago. that in the capitalist system, debt is nationalized i, it's paid for by the working class. profit is the privatized. it goes to the wealthy and that's exactly the same as we're seeing now just on a bigger and bigger and bigger scale. um and the battle we were talking about the, the battle for rights of working people seems to go one way peter. that's absolutely right. well, we have capitalism. the best the workers can do is fight incredibly hard to stand still. and the 2nd, they're not fighting incredibly hard, they're going backwards. and even standing still means that more and more of the proportion of societies wealth is going to the rich to the owners of capital. and so even standing still in terms of a, a level of existence means becoming relatively poorer in terms of the amount of societies wealth that comes to the workers. and let's not forget that it's the

workers who are producing that well, that's what i mean when i talk about the system being absolutely irrational, as well as anti human m, you're talking about china. and now there's a lot of confusion about china, but you only have to look at the way that china has managed that health crisis to see that it has absolutely put the people 1st, they have responded to coded as a health crisis and put the needs and the health of the people absolutely paramount in everything they've done as a side effect. their economy has actually had better, but it done so on the basis of taking care of the needs of the people. yes, china has a huge market element to its economy now. and to that extent, it wants to be accepted as a market economy in the, in the, in the world. institutions that are supposed to govern it in,

in any way that that's possible. the world's market economy. i'm going to jump in here. we have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on 20212022 state without me. ah ah. i was diagnosed with cancer in 2000 lives when the doctors told me the cancer was incurable. i knew i had to make a change, so i decided to travel to one of the most toxic places in america. florida. one of florida is biggest industries and best kept secrets, is fostering mine and the biggest player is $85000000000.00 industry. is mosaic, and i vow reports of millions of gallons of contaminated water now flowing into the florida aquifer made from there's

a chronic opening. i called don't let that work towards me, but that's what it is. i'm in 2013, my uncle, our family dog, my brother, who is 21 years old, myself and my father and we're all guy drop out with black hole and the good play. yeah, yeah. and then maybe they'll actually learn more help is more important money and it states have to be ready to be able to afford enzyme and find the luxury good for sure. despite having the most expensive health care system in the world, we have poor life expectancy. we have higher infant mortality,

we have more deaths from treatable causes. so americans are suffering every day from it. it's as if these people don't count. i saw how they confuse customers and jumper sick. so also they can satisfy their wall street investors. no parents should have to see what i saw. so if you're denying payment for someone's care, your makes life and death decisions and determine who gets to live and who dies to me. that's best getting away with murder. ah, well connect across stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter developed reminder we're discussing 20212022. ah.

okay, we'll go back to john in paris. you know, one of the events of 2021 that i found really quite fascinating was this rather ridiculous a democracy summit. the virtual one i think of everyone remembers here and you know, it all of this talk about a democracy. but for me, it was just, it was a very, very much an ideological show to data maintain, had gemini, because is the, it was presented as, you know, a confident western lead world. i. with, with that by back by their ideology, the course they don't call it neo liberalism, but you know, they call it democracy, rule of law, all of this type of thing. but i actually thought it was more of a, a virtual, a presentation out of desperation, that they're losing at their losing control. okay? and they're trying to maintain a narrative here. and of course, you know, i mean, you know, everybody likes puppies. everybody likes democracy. i mean, you know, it's, it's one of the, it's ridiculous facade for me and it was

a ridiculous exercise. but it was actually, you know, that the west trying to, you know, make, tell everyone, hey, we're still in control. we're still in control. don't worry. which of course is it is, is actually a demonstration of desperation. your thoughts, john? definitely i, it's important though to say that this idea of having a lines of an, an alliance of democracies instead of the multilateral un system is a very old one. i could go back 10 or 20 years and it was it reached, i think it's peak under george w bush. right. and the neocons, but that's 20 years ago now. and it is very much in decline. and that's why i mentioned the withdrawal from afghanistan in, in the 1st part of the show, you know, the fact is the americans were defeated. they have hundreds of military bases all over the world. they are quite clearly an empire. they have the biggest military budget. i far and yet, or they were unable to defeat the taliban after 20 years. and that is

a major jr political event. so yes, it was a sign of desperation, this democracy summit. it's an attempt to under, to undermine the multilateral nation based system of the united nations. and instead to give some kind of pre eminence to countries which self identify if i may use that word as democratic. and the, the fact is that, again, oh, the show chip or i mentioned marks and lenin marx. a lot of what she says is, is correct in particular, of course, about the sucking out of capital out of ordinary people's pockets. but once again, that is being done by states who are printing money like crazy. and thereby inflating away people's savings, for example, and, and, and their and their salaries. and in the case of marks, marks predicted and wanted a world wide capitalist revolution,

what he called the international bourgeois revolution. in order to bring about the dictatorship of the proletariat. on the world level, he was an internationalist, and yet it is internationalism, which is the greatest danger to liberty. and it isn't nationalism or not a political system based on nation states, which is the best defense of liberty. and that's exactly what we're seeing with the unraveling of the neoconservative project to create an alliance of democracies. the idea was to elbow out other countries like russia and china, in the name of democracy, or to elbow out the nation based united nation system. and instead to have a, had germany, an ideological and political and military had germany based around the united states. and that effort has been unraveling now for some years. and as i say, the afghanistan de butler is a symbolic, i would say end really up to that adventure and we are now i think back in

a multi polar world. and you know, it's a world in which force counts. and we're, you know, we can see what's happening in ukraine at the moment. force is what we'll decide. yes sir, that he'll a conflict at then as ever. and frankly, i'm, i'm pleased if people start to realize that that is the prime mover behind international relations. not nonsense about them of democracy, which in any case is pretty rich coming from these western countries who themselves are installing a dictatorship and the name of the fight against cove it. now i am sure julian assign should have an opinion about the rule of law and democracy as he's sitting and riding in prison. okay, johnny, i mean, when i'm gone, john brought up a afghan assent because, you know, i, it said to strategic to feed. but you know, when it was more than anything else and a much more cynical, vile way was a business model that went broke. okay. i mean they, they, it, it, it sucked in so much money air cream honey with getting reds in, i mean that,

that's why i personally think that's why i think a lot of people didn't leave when they had the chances that now they're, they're never going to leave, i mean, it has been go on for 20 to 20 years, and it's been such a great money maker for so many people involved in it. and then it all came crashing down to an end though the, the, that, that kind of project the, the, the global had demonic project of the us military is far, far from over. i mean in is john brought up, i mean the ukraine is on the menu now. okay. these people don't give up here. i mean, and that's the kind of thing that i, what i find really quite disturbing. and i tend to obviously side with john. here is that, you know, you, they had their sideline in the united nations. they were pushing out. people are major important countries in the world that play an important role in the world stage. but there are this vanished, they're not part of it allowed to be communion in the church as it were. i mean that these are good. this is a model that it, that will never cease until it's completely destroyed or bankruptcy itself. go ahead and, and brussel and bristol, o, m o, listen to john,

are talking about their defeat for imperialism. afghanistan, and he's absolutely right. it's a world historic moment. and we have been watching for 20 or more years, the m and untrammelled aggression of the imperial estates. in the u. s. are leading the charge and their desire to take back control of all the places in the world that had in some way resisted them. their domination and their total exploitation. and subjugation. and the defeat in afghanistan is, is huge. you know, 20 years of money material and resources failed to subdue the afghan people. and it's interesting that he's talked about, you know, china colluding with the us because really we're saying the exact opposite that that primary targets of the i r and the, and the aggression of the usa in the imperialist are russia and china precisely

because they don't submit they stand up for themselves and for their people and for their own independence for their own right to sovereignty and, and to, and to run their countries in the way that their people see fit. and um, china and russia and china in particular, when it comes to afghanistan. oh, flooring, many countries. and it's one of the reasons they, they come in for so much higher from the usa. they offering people an alternative to the neo liberal, dec trap and total subjugation model, imperialism up as they share technology. they build infrastructure, they lend a very low rates. they help countries really lift themselves up for the benefit of their people and for the mutual trading benefit of o. m. this is a threat to the ability of the usa to control the world. and that's why china is so much in the sites of the usa. the propaganda offensive takes many forms.

and in particular, this democracy some, it really has to be seen as a part of the propaganda offensive against china. it's part of the softening up of the populations in the west for war against china and against russia, letting us feel that these people are bad. there are enemies. that's why they use words like to tell it's harry and, you know, and are constantly trying to tell us that genocides are happening, that the people who are under attack or aggressive, you know, china and russia doesn't ever going to be on their board as they don't have vices all over the world. it's, it's the usa that surrounding china and surrounding russia with its aggressive basis. but we're being given this fairy tale that china is aggressive in russia is aggressive to soften us up for war. it will in it now that we're talking about both russia and china, john, if you said in your last answer, you know, force besides things. unfortunately, i absolutely agree with you because that's where we stand right now. and i unfortunately believe in 2022, we are going to see

a lot of force and it's going to be very, very ugly and jumping to absolutely right. i mean of, i would, does free phrase. i mean, you know there's, it's always a purity test. that's why i, by mentioned this, this democracy, somebody there you have to be pure or your ear. you're not young, your ear thrown away, you're thrown to the wolves. you're not allowed to have your own existence. and we're, we're getting that we're at that point right now. we're at the rubicon right now as we speak. go ahead, john. well, i think we may be at the rubicon. yes. but i'm actually relatively optimistic. of course, i agree with joe t about the imperialism of the united states. i've been denouncing it for 20 years . of course, i agree that encircling russia and so on. however, if you look at the ukraine crisis, russia is accused of being about to invade ukraine. the west to said what the west has said. it's not going to fight to save ukraine. it's going to put sanctions on russia. well, that's an admission of defeat. because if tomorrow russia were to invade ukraine

and get sanctions put on it, russia would be the overall winner or the painful the sanctions might be. the west has already raised the white flag. and as far as china is concerned, yes, there's a lot of rhetoric against china, but we have to see in 2022. how it pans out, you know, i said that the big thing for months, the litmus test would be the not stream to gas pipeline. well, it's been built ok. it's not in operation yet, but it's been built against in the teeth of american opposition. i suspect it will probably go on the stream pretty soon. and the rhetoric against china, it's a little bit similar. we'll have to see, you know, is it all mouth and no trousers? because it comes against the background of many decades of collusion with china. all right, of which again, joe biden is the, is the, is the emblematic expression. so we'll have to see,

does it translate into other thing? i suspect it may not translate into very much, i'm not convinced that there will be a war against china or russia. i think on the country the west at the moment is on the back foot. and i think we maybe i'm being too optimistic that i, we do see now a return to the multilateralism which rusher in particular has been asking for now for, for well over a decade. chelsea, i'll give you the last 25 seconds of the program. go right ahead. thanks, jones upset you write a false is the ultimate decide. and so we should be very glad that the anti imperialist camp is strong enough to defend itself and fight back. we only need to look at the difference between what's happened to north korea and what i'm to libya to understand what happens when up. people who want to be independent, disarm themselves now who very to the, to tragic examples to think of at the same time here as we close out the are many thanks them i guess in paris and bristol, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at

r t c. you next time. remember rostock rules, i mean with the city delegated in as shown to don't stand together. we'll continue to stand together against russia. 80 in germany. repeat some of the arrows that we doubtless made. it's a notice if he does a shockey dawson, it's about their ability to influence other nations, french, u. k. and even latin american and other countries in ginger, them maybe to where to high from cycle pollute with members of your household. please, please, please,

please. we're going to continue to fight with justin. russia must not be allowed in germany. at all. yeah, through common leave. it's so short. so didn't al td innovation? and the yes, actually indian ha, the not missiles guns until sunday. herman, by dreamer shaped bank concur, sent those with ah, [000:00:00;00] with there's things we dare to ask in

with ah, then you get headlines from our say, joe biden promises that the u. s. won't deploy offensive strike weapons and ukraine during an hour long conversation. good team, a potent as the crisis over the country, stretches towards the new year. one of the biggest issues, vaccine inequality, the leading charity lays back how poor countries struggle to inoculate against cope it. while wealthy nations let big pharma read astronomical prophets and determined to see in 2022 with the bank germans banned from buying fireworks for a 2nd day because the flock to poland to keep the party going.

with