stay safe on the way here, cross talk dusts off the crystal ball. see well 2022. my whole afterwards shall be here with your next new year's eve update from archie here. oh, rado. became a test bed for medical and then later recreational marijuana. and it started with something so innocent, i was wanting to socialize. everybody does it? so i cannot. and then it just keeps going and going and going. i'm just going to do it one. yeah. and that it's, oh, i'm just going to try this one said, never do it again because they want my former customers want and i have the right on inside. okay. and you surround yourself with people who are encouraging you to do it and not to stop or it felt like my life was over, jumped office about the balcony and died. mm.

he knew he just couldn't stop with hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter lavelle with 2021 rapidly coming to an end to this time for some reflection. what will we remember about this year? how did our lives change? also? we look forward to the new year. what does 2020 to have in store for us?

will we be living an interesting times? with ross talking 2021. i'm joined by my guest. georgie brower in bristol. she is deputy leader of the workers party. brittany, as well as the author of the drive to war against russia in china and in paris we cross to john laughlin, he's a university lecturer in history and political philosophy or cross sac rules and effect. that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i always appreciate john, let me go to person in paris, i'm how did the neo liberal project neo liberalism and is as an ideology fair in 2021. because i would say did very, very poorly as it should because it's an ideology that is collapsing all around is in every facet, every facet. it touches go ahead, john. while i think 2021 was the year in which the well deletes. but i'm not sure that i would call them the liberal consolidated,

the grip on power. i'm thinking of course of the, the beginning of the year when trump was evicted from the white house and replaced by jo biking, who is an expression. perfect expression of those, the leads and of their grip on tower. but if i question the use of the webinar and the liberal, which i don't think does apply to them, because i don't think they are liberal anymore in any sense. they're not near liberal or liberal and they are instead a marxist. so capitalist or what i mean by that is that there is a and again, this was exemplified at the beginning of the year in january. i the now 2nd appearance of teaching ping at the davos swelled economic forum. he originally appeared in 2017 when trump was elected. this year he appeared again, albeit virtually, and he was welcomed. then as before, by couch bob, the head of that forum, who again is

a very emblematic figure for these well business cities. and shrub said to him, you have shown us mister president, the principles which should guide us on our common path. and that phrase expresses this horrible convergence between totalitarian communism of the kind which exists in china, which as we know has a very strong capitalistic element and western capitalism. and that i think, is the way to characterize 2021. it's the, it's the end of animal farm when the pigs and the farmers reconcile and get back together again over the heads of the animals. that's the world we're living in in 2021. okay, let's go to bristol, that's a very interesting take. i think there's a lot of different ways you could approach a child to go. i had you react about and, and of course, you know, we had still the original question to you. go ahead. oh, well, the thing that i've really noticed about this year is that and capitalism, imperialism, you can call it nic neoliberalism. that, to me,

it's simply capitalism with the gloves off, you know, and what we call neoliberalism. this era when capitalism imperialism has been taking its gloves off, is really the era of, after the collapse of the soviet union capitalism, the imperialists felt they had to put the gloves on to an extent. they had to grant a lot of concessions to their workers. because of the threat of socialism when they felt that threat recede, they got a huge shot in the arm economically, but also philosophically they fell, emboldened to just do what they wanted to do to act in accordance with the nature of their system. so i don't really talk about neoliberalism, i just talk about imperialism. and, and to me, this year has really exposed the total in humanity and irrationality of the imperialist system. when you have a system where the only rationale for doing anything is will it make a pot of money into a bigger pos of money. and the needs of human beings are nowhere in the equation. and then you have the anarchic nature of production,

which is totally irrational. we end up with the situation we've seen this year, whereby we had vaccines produced and actually 1st produced in russia. if there was any census in the world, the sputnik vaccine would have been distributed globally immediately and ended the pandemic. but that isn't what happened because there's this competition for, for profiteering out of the health crisis, which distorts all of the actions. our governments in the west take there, they're looking at this not as a, primarily a health issue, but an issue for business. how to make the most money for big business, for monopoly, and the monopolization of vaccines. you know, the fact that there is this now kind of politics of letting, letting it run run rampant. so there's more variance. so there's an ongoing need for vaccines, rather than getting over in touch with the fact that western countries won't recognize vaccines that don't come from one of the big monopolies. won't give out

vaccines cheaply to people who need them. hoarding them or putting terrible conditions on to governments before they will let them buy vaccines, are depriving countries of vaccines. you know, this really shows the true in humanity of a system that is running. well, i think we have a lot actually lot in common. i'm a little bit surprised here, john, i think also, i mean, i'm glad that the issue of kobe didn't. vaccines was brought up here. i mean, not only, of course, from, particularly an american perspective. i mean, it's a huge amount of money that's being drained from, from working people. and at the same time, these locked down mandates are punishment enough. but john, it's also about expressions of power and being able to determine, get your way. i mean, for us here will, and you, and it's legitimize through a health crisis here. and we all know, we all know that once you lose those rights, they never come back. they never come back. ok until they come up with the next, you know, i guess it's going to be the new green deal. crisis climate. you know,

then again, more rights being denied here it only goes in one direction. and it seems to me, irrespective of your political, colorado action all around the world, you know, a little tyrants. enjoy 2021 john. yeah, i mean i, i agree with some of what the previous speakers said. i, i, on the other hand, i think that the imperialist, the specifically imperialist dimension is surely on the wayne at the moment. or the, the big event of 2021 is surely the retreat from afghanistan. that is the defeat of imperialism. or, of course, the mindset persists, but the fact is that the united states, the imperialist power, has been routed. now, just as the british empire was routed in the middle of the 19th century from that country. and instead of what i see, i mean, you know, you mentioned monopolies. well firstly, monopolies can't be in the plural by definition. and what we see is

a terrible collusion between these big pharmaceutical companies. yes and states and all in the name of internationalism. in other words, the, the, the, the, i don't want to be rude, but the rather sort of primitive socialist analysis doesn't really work. because you have international ism, and very heavy, massive state involvement. it's the states that are buying the vaccines. it's the states that are forcing the vaccines on people, as peter says, at the cost of, at the terrible cost of personal liberty. there is a collusion between states and big business, which everyone can see. and that i'm afraid doesn't fit into a, a standard socialist analysis or because in the socialist analysis normally would be the states that we're standing up to the no, to the big companies. in this case they are colluding and they're colluding in a way that is completely compatible with one world, a globalism one world. internationalism,

because everyone's doing the same thing. and in particular, as i said in my 1st remarks, it's between the, the so called capitalist west or the so called west and communist china. that's the collusion it, sir, between western states, a common estates and big business. and they are colluding to establish a world dictatorship. that's really the only way to describe it gently and bristle . you wanna respond to that because i think, i think, you know, one of the thing in you and i've had a conversation in the past one on one. remember, remember those days are, you know, we, we can go through the lexicon are we want here. but i, i see your point, and i see john's here go ahead and react with john just said, go ahead. so imperialism. and i would really recommend all of you is to go and read linens, the con, imperialism. because it's not what people commonly imagine. imperialism is the advanced most developed stage of capitalism. it said it's a world economic system is also known as monopoly capitalism. and yes,

you're right. the state has become very powerful, but the state is a state of the monopolies. it acts on behalf of the monopolies and that as soon as you realize that you, you understand why it takes the decisions it takes in favor of big business constantly and against the interests of the massive people who it pretends to be acting on behalf of it. acts on behalf of the monopolies. you know, i'm the committed earlier that, sorry this, the speaker before said earlier that m. r, you know, the, the way the state behaves is good as kind of socialist. but actually, if you read capital, if you read marx, he was pointing out 150 years ago. that in the capitalist system, debt is nationalized i, it's paid for by the working class. profit is the privatized, it goes to the wealthy, and that's exactly the same as we're seeing now just on a bigger and bigger and bigger scale. and, and the battle we were talking about the, the battle for rights of working people seems to go one way peter. that's

absolutely right. well, we have capitalism. the best the workers can do is fight incredibly hard to stand still. and the 2nd, they're not fighting incredibly hard, they're going backwards. and even standing still means that more and more of the proportion of societies wealth is going to the rich to the owners of capital. and so even standing still in terms of a, a level of existence means becoming relatively poorer in terms of the amount of societies wealth that comes to the workers. and let's not forget that it's the workers who are producing that well, that's what i mean when i talk about the system being absolutely irrational, as well as anti human m, you talking about china. now there's a lot of confusion about china, but you already have to look at the way that china has managed that health crisis to see that he has absolutely put the people 1st. they have responded to coded as

a health crisis and put the needs and the health of the people absolutely paramount in everything they've done as a side effect. their economy has actually said better, but it done so on the basis of taking care of the needs of the people. yes, china has a huge market element to its economy now. and to that extent, it wants to be accepted as a mark economy in the, in the, in the world. institutions that are supposed to govern it in, in any way that, that's possible. the world's market economy are going to jump in here. we have to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on 20212022 state without the ah ah

ah one of the worst ever mass shootings in america was in las vegas in 2017. the tragedy explode a little of the real las vegas where many say elected officials are controlled by casino, knows the vegas shooting revealed work deal vm, p d really is. and now it's part of the stand machine. most of the american public barely remembers that happened, that just shows you the power of money in las vegas. the powerful showed that true colors when the pandemic heard the most contagious contagion. there we've seen in decades and then you have a mayor who doesn't care. so here is caroline goodman, offering the lives of the vegas residence, to be the control group, to the shiny facade, conceal a deepened difference to the people. vice could have been saved if they were to

take an action. absolutely, keep the registering and keep the slot machines doing in vegas as a money machine is a huge cash register. there is ran by people who don't care about people's lives being lost to ah, lou ah ah ah. a ah it

the welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered. i'm peter of l term and you were discussing 20212022. ah ah. okay, i go back to john in paris. you know, one of the events of 2021 that i found really quite fascinating with this rather ridiculous democracy summit. the virtual one, i think everyone remembers here and you know, it all of this talk about a democracy. but for me, it was just, it was a very, very much an ideological show to maintain her gemini, because is the, it was presented as, you know, a confident western lead world with the, with the backside there. ideology, of course, they don't call me or liberalism, but you know, they call it democracy, rule of law, all of this type of thing. but i actually thought it was more of

a virtual presentation out of desperation, but they're losing their losing control. ok. and they're trying to maintain narrative here. and of course, you know, i mean, you know, everybody likes puppies. everybody likes democracy. i mean, now you know it's, it's one of the, it's ridiculous facade for me. and it was ridiculous exercise. but it was actually, you know, the west trying to, you know, make, tell everyone, hey, we're still in control. we're still in control. don't worry. which of course is, is actually demonstration of desperation. your thoughts, john? definitely i, it's important though, to say that this idea of having a lines of an, an alliance of democracies instead of the multilateral un system is a very old one. i can goes back 10 or 20 years and it was it reached, i think it's peak under george w bush. right. and the neocons, but as 20 years ago now, and it is very much in decline. and that's why i mentioned the withdrawal from afghanistan in, in the 1st part of the show. and, you know,

the fact is the americans were defeated. they have hundreds of military bases all over the world. they are quite clearly an empire. they have the biggest military budget i far and yet, or they were unable to defeat the taliban after 20 years. and that is a major geopolitical event. so yes, it was a sign of desperation, this democracy summit. it's an attempt to under, to undermine the multilateral nation based system of the united nations. and instead to give some kind of pre eminence to countries which self identify if i may use that word as democratic and the, the fact is that again i. e, a g o t per i mentioned marks and lenin marx. a lot of what she says is, is correct. in particular, of course, about the sucking out of capital out of ordinary people's pockets. but once again, that is being done by states who are printing money like crazy and thereby

inflating away people's savings, for example, and, and, and their, and their salaries. and in the case of marks, marks predicted and wanted a world wide capitalist revolution, what he called the international bourgeois revolution. in order to bring about the dictatorship of the proletariat. on the world level, he was an internationalist. and yet it is internationalism, which is the greatest danger to liberty. and it isn't nationalism or not a political system based on nation states, which is the best defense of liberty. and that's exactly what we're seeing with the unraveling of the neoconservative project to create an alliance of democracies. the idea was to elbow out other countries like russia and china, in the name of democracy, to elbow out the nation based united nation system. and instead to have a,

had germany, an ideological and political and military had germany based around the united states. and that effort has been unraveling now for some years. and as i say the afghanistan did, butler is a symbolic, i would say end really or to that adventure. and we are now, i think back in a multi polar world. and you know, it's a world in which force counts. and we're, you know, we can see what's happening in ukraine at the moment. force is what we'll decide. yes sir, that he'll a conflict as then as ever. and frankly, i'm, i'm pleased if people start to realize that that is the prime mover behind international relations. not nonsense about them of democracy, which in any case is pretty rich coming from these western countries who themselves are installing a dictatorship and the name of the fight against cove it. now i am sure julian assign should have an opinion about the rule of law and democracy as he's sitting and riding in prison. okay, johnny, i mean, when i'm, i'm glad john brought up

a f garrison because, you know, i, it said to strategic to feed, but you know, when it was more than anything else and a much more cynical vial way, it was a business model that went broke okay, i mean they, they, it, it, it sucked in so much money air cream honey with getting reds in, i mean that, that's why i personally think that's why i think a lot of people didn't leave when they had the chances that now they're, they're never going to leave, i mean, it has been go on for 20 to 20 years, and it's been such a great money maker for so many people involved in it. and then it all came crashing down to an end. though the, the, that, that kind of project the, the, the global head, hedge amana project of the us military is far, far from over. i mean, the in is john brought up, i mean, the ukraine is on the menu now. okay. these people don't give up here. i mean, and that's the kind of thing that i, what i find really quite disturbing. and i tend to obviously side with john here is that, you know, you, they had their sideline in the united nations. they were pushing out. people are major important countries in the world that play an important role in the world

stage. but there are this vanished. they're not part of are allowed to be communion in the church as it were. i mean that these are good. this is a model that it, that will never cease until it's completely destroyed, or bankruptcy itself. go ahead and, and, and brussel and bristol, o, m o, listen to john, are talking about their defeat for imperialism. afghanistan, and he's absolutely right. it's a world historic moment. and we have been watching for 20 or more years, the m and untrammelled aggression of the imperial estates. and the u. s. are leading the charge and their desire to take back control of all the places in the world that had in some way resisted them. their domination and their total exploitation and subjugation. and the defeat in afghanistan is, is huge. you know, 20 years of money, material and resources failed to subdue the afghan people. and it's interesting

that he's talked about, you know, china colluding with the us because really we're saying the exact opposite that primary targets of their i, r and the, and the aggression of the usa in the imperialist are russia and china precisely because they don't submit. they stand up for themselves and for their people and for their own independence and for their own right to sovereignty and, and to, and to run their countries in the way that their people see fit. and um, china and russia and china in particular, when it comes to afghanistan, o flooring, many countries, and it's one of the reasons they, they come in for so much higher from the usa. they offering people an alternative to the neo liberal, dec trap and total subjugation model, imperialism authors. they share technology, they build infrastructure, they lend a very low rates. they help countries really lift themselves up for the benefit of

their people, them for the mutual trading benefit of o. m. this is a threat to the ability of the usa to control the world. and that's why china is so much in the site of the usa. the propaganda offensive takes many forms. and in particular, this democracy some, it really has to be seen as a part of the propaganda offensive against china. it's part of the softening up of the populations in the west for war against china and against russia, letting us feel that these people are bad. there are enemies. that's why they use words like to tell it's harry and, you know, and are constantly trying to tell us that genocides are happening, that the people who are under attack are aggressive. you know, china and russia doesn't ever going to be on their boards as they don't have bice is all over the world. it's. it's the usa that surrounding china and surrounding russia with its aggressive basis. but we're being given this fairy tale that china is aggressive in russia is aggressive to soften us up for war. it will, it,

not that we're talking about both russia and china, john, if you said in your last answer, you know, force besides things. unfortunately, i absolutely agree with you because that's where we stand right now. and i unfortunately believe in 2022, we're going to see a lot of force and it's going to be very, very ugly and jumping to absolutely right. i mean of, i would, does free phrase. i mean, you know, there's, it's always a purity test. that's why i, by mentioned this, this democracy, somebody there you have to be pure or your ear it you, you're not young, you're, you're thrown away, you're thrown to the wolves. you're not allowed to have your own existence. and we're, we're getting that. we're at that point right now. we're at the rubicon right now as we speak. go head john. well, i think we may be at the rubicon. yes. but i'm actually relatively optimistic. of course, i agree with joe t about the imperialism of the united states. i've been denouncing it for 20 years . of course, i agree that encircling russia and so on. however,

if you look at the ukraine crisis, russia is accused of being about to invade ukraine. the west to said what the wester said it's not going to fight to save ukraine. it's going to put sanctions on russia. well, that's an admission of defeat, because if tomorrow russia were to invade ukraine and get sanctions put on it, russia would be the overall winner, or the painful the sanctions might be. the west has already raised the white flag. and as far as china is concerned, yes, there's a lot of rhetoric against china, but we have to see in 2022. how it pans out, you know, i said that the big thing for months, the litmus test would be the not stream to gas pipeline. well, it's been built ok. it's not an operation yet, but it's been built against in the teeth of american opposition. i suspect it will probably go on the stream pretty soon. and the rhetoric against china, it's a little bit similar. we'll have to see, you know,

is it all mouth and no trousers? because it comes against the background of many decades of collusion with china. all right, of which again, joe biden is the, is the, is the emblematic expression. so we'll have to see, does it translate into other thing? i suspect it may not translate into very much, i'm not convinced that there will be a war against china or russia. i think on the country, the west at the moment is on the back foot and i think we may, maybe i'm being too optimistic. but we do see now a return to the multilateralism, which russia in particular has been asking for now for, for well over a decade. chelsea, i'll give you the last 25 seconds of the program. go right ahead. thanks, jones upset you write a false is the ultimate decide. and so we should be very glad that the anti imperialist camp is strong enough to defend itself and fight back. we only need to look at the difference between what's happened to north korea and what i'm to libya

to understand what happens when up. people who want to be independent, disarm themselves now who very to the, to tragic examples to think of at the same time here as we close out the are many thanks them i guess in paris and bristol, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time, remember crosstalk rules. ah i jeremy with the city delegated in as shown to don't to stand together will continue to stand together against russia. 80 in germany. pete. some of the areas that we doubtless made say no to civilians as chunky dawson. it's about their ability to influence other nations,

france, b, u. k. and even the latin america and other countries in future them, maybe beware to high rum cycle pollute with members of your household. please, please, please, please. we're going to continue to fight with justin. rushman must not be allowed in germany. i don't want y'all to come and leave it so short, so didn't al td enough asian the father of the yes actually indian api the not mrs. guns until sunday joined me every thursday on the alex salmon. sure. and i'll be speaking to guess from the world of politics, sport, business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. ah

ah, uneasy headlines from all to see joe biden promises that the united states won't deploy offensive strike weapons in ukraine during an hour long conversation with the crisis over the country stretches towards another year from the energy crisis to covey to nato. we talked to the hungarian foreign minister about 2021 is defining dilemmas and determined to say in 2022 with a bank germans banned from buying fireworks for a 2nd here because of kobe block to poland, to keep the party going. with those just turned one in the afternoon friday the 31st of december, we made it to the end of another year. i'm calling bray. welcome to.