christian complex people, i put them into categories as this lot is bad, we'll get rid of them. you know, and change is an organic process. change is an evolution and the opposition is not to gene status and everything must stay the same and everything must be radically changed. and radical change is not the way that that kills me. a a with

i mentioned it out senior watching a special edition or going underground on the 1st day of 2020 two's gregorian calendar. the team and i will be back for a brand new season on wednesday, the 12th of january. but until then, we'll be showing some of your favorite shows from the season this week. so our meeting that could have designed the future of our species on planet earth, the virtual meeting between economic superpowers of the 20th and 21st century, the u. s. and china is the contours of this century, become clear between shanghai cooperation, organization, nations, and nato. join now from rome by the former adviser to the european union's high representative for common foreign and security policy and accept my 6 official alice to croak gals to thanks so much for coming back on, you know, biden's, the national security adviser said america is not seeking to contain china,

it's not a new cold war, simultaneously briefings to journalists for me, anonymous senior us official said the aim of the virtual meeting was not to ease tensions. but what that means, what is your date on the virtual meeting between she's in bring and joe biden. i don't think it went well, and i don't think very much was agree. what if anything on the meeting and i followed a very ted, she telephone call between britain and the chinese foreign minister on the 13th a few days before to prepare for prepare for the meeting. and then there's been some fairly harsh words coming out of china in the way of the meeting are essentially the, the, the chinese, certainly the foreign minister was saying very clearly to bring her listen, you're not going to have a good relationship with us. you're not going to have the sort of relationship

competition if you like. well, no competition. while the explosive issue of taiwan continues and in the subsequent pastor, they made it very clear that what they felt was in an editorial in the global times . they describe as this was hypocritical, what, what he said was nonsense and underlined the fact that this is a very serious issue, that the confrontation could come with the united states over the straits of taiwan. but if america, who goes on supporting secession isn't in taiwan, if it goes on encouraging a to then we have long prepared for wall. and i do, we don't know how to get this true to the whether it isn't tie paid. but this is

very fair. it's very harris indeed. so i think that was it a climb down immediately afterwards, then because the bite was reported the saying, look, there is no way that the usa is imminently about to recognize a taiwan like 15 other arguable us broccoli nations do. oh that's, i mean, you know, they actually have been speaking with 2 phases on this. the president keeps saying, of course one china policy exist. we're not changing the one china policy. but then again, you have jake sullivan, the us security advisor in an interview on cnn with that korea was paying very clearly listen, what we mean by managing this competition is that the you night states for the, for the future fess the parameters of its own and its

allies interest, we set the, the parameters, and then when exactly they said, yeah, but what have you actually agreed during this time? what, what did you negotiations with china? what come out to us and sullivan said, just very bank pay him wrong question. donna asked me that question wrong metric that was, that was the tone of the the, the sullivan interview and fame equally. you know, not only always going to affect the people order the guy lines for the board or the framework for the global order in our interests. but it's also going to support free liberal. busy mark everywhere. in other words, if we're going to be, if you like, if you like it was going to be a criteria or a framework for the lease,

the financial leads to continue to invest and explore capital, where they choose more of a way to china was expected to to manage with this except the global order for this coming period, and then to perhaps to be a to cooperate as biting said to some and as jake fellow said, and within the framework within this new global order. so our interest then there may be areas where we can co operate, trump put sanctions, whereas biden is sending war ships. along with worst, johnson's warship, elizabeth grove, carrie plus these sorts of threats and saying, cooperating economically. that's exactly. i mean, every, every week there is a new move on taiwan,

a sort of incremental chop, chop chop if it moves closer and closer. of course, on the one hand, america says that it still supports the one china policy, and they agree mm month subsequently. but every so often there is a new element. the type pay off is a cultural office is going to be designated instead of taiwan represented this, there are more visits by sea. merican officials to taiwan ships go through regularly the taiwan straits to sort of to emphasize the freedom of fading. and people come like the australian prime minister come to taiwan and say, well, of course i can see it would be possible either for australia or american not to support taiwan. should china attack it or invade it?

okay, well, so this was causing them. the chinese is great anxiety about similar tenuously while that's happening in the south china sea or the indo pacific as we now call it the all because deal the pull out of get this done. i mean see obviously the we their easton took is done is that make the movement has been taken off the u. s. terrorist list and china is putting $2000000.00 of burn leave investment to have get it done. one f. b i whistle blow sybil. edwin said, need to see is jin chang is the next day one is actually happening simultaneously. is that credible that need to look ahead? i think this is very credible because me and part of sullivan's talk. he said, part of setting the part of setting this new global order in the c n n interview.

he said, well, he said also good. it would be based on enshrining the text of the declaration, the universal declaration of human rights into every international institution as well. as into the border, and i think it's very clear that it was us weapon i vision along with climate change is a weapon is asia of china. and yes, i think that precisely this process, what do i call it? i would call it the cost of isolation of taiwan and you, craig, and also probably j, province, justice, kosovo, was the started or was getting full diplomatic support saying we support if you like, kosovo internationally, allies and then it moves to the next stages of asking that they should be

going can every part of the international community, and it's just introduced a statement which he says, it's exactly that. he said, there's no reason why taiwan shouldn't be in all those committees and institutions of the united nations. they shouldn't be there on the civil a, a trade in every institution. and we support their inclusion in a substantial way in the united nations at every level. of course, he says, you know, they can't be representative of china, but they must be included in, or this is the cost of or playbook being repeated if like both of taiwan and ultimately i suspect it hasn't done it yet, but thinking problems will be, will follow probably from from bad. so yes, i think that is a correct assessment. i mean,

i want to get back actually to that causation. that phrase, you're using the quick sidebar for some of you is watching. when you use phrases like weapon, a zation of human rights or weapon zation of or what if the city what, what does the weapon zation of human rights mean to those who are watching circle, mainstream media, of course, genocide, engine jang, let alone anywhere in the world where nato opposes. oh, there are, i mean a, the question of human rights chinese would say, very panic. how we manage our human rights, isn't the amount of for us and how we deal with it, just like every country has its own human rights problems. the west is not immune from having human rights problems. we only have to look back at the things such as rendition that took place in the middle east, where the west would kidnap take hosted people and then render them for torture.

in foreign presents, i think that would be testified as a human rights abuse. so the problem with it is essentially, is that, is it being used to sort of talk in a particular country and a particular in a particular way? is it looking for human rights abuse in order then to hold china accountable and sanctioned? that's the process we're talking about. more sanction being put on china, more isolation on china. trying to push it out to be international order and into isolation of human rights. and of course, you know, although human rights federation, i'm sure it's a very fine document. but different countries, different civilizations have different view. china has to part social

cohesion, the community as it's human rights. i mean, the rights of communities, the rights of the people as a whole, we in the west tend to price the individual human rights, individual identity rights, gender, right? well, if you, i mean, now we have so many more of these identity issues coming up. all of them can be used to put sanctions or penalize or in the other forms of the right punishment from a state that is for what can i say sion of human rights, which i mean, i think i support support all of them. but i suppose the point is it's in the of the beholder and it goes going down, i'mma is, is open as a group. i'll stop you there. more from the former advisor to europe in unions. hi, representative the common forum and security policy. after this break for

ah well, happy new year, special kaiser a board with the one and only gerald salenti or it's data of the transport. jazz man, you know stuff ah,

welcome back. i'm still here with former british diplomats allister group. why do you think the biden administration does not understand that if you empower certain groups that are necessarily pro washington's values, it can blow back after all the failures in recent decades. i mean column pals, x, cheapest job larry wilkerson saying, vito afghan is gone. very aware, the cia was very aware of the week as being able to be used to destabilize beijing directly. these guys know the dangers of supporting is the mist extremism for some notional idea of a geopolitical supremacy. i'm not sure, i mean post for i think they're all pages, very much stuff in your crate. taiwan. and then other places that are all great dangerous that this can get out of control. it's very hard to manage the things

when they stop, i think, in the ukraine, because the government there is not in control. the administration is, is not really who has control over the country. but what i'm really trying to say to you is that i think what we're seeing is an attempt by certainly parts of elements in washington to create the sense that america back americans on paul. so, and to do that, they want to be quite aggressive and forceful. and so they put to these issues such as ukraine. bella rose with russia, and they're doing that to keep russia on the back foot balance to keep china oh balance. but also particularly to try and give the vitamin ministration a success, foreign politics, even if for foreign policy success, it's a strategic blog. i mean, you know,

losing the war to gain the political advantage to come back and say this was a great success. and this is really some of what's been happening in a way the night is paid is strategically weaker, but sometimes they can go back domestically and say, well, you know, we really gave the iranians. what for in the last or we ready, did we tell china waco, china or by what happening and we goes and it's genocide and it's not acceptable. and that's very important in the domestic context of the united states. does it help you doesn't how the united states strategically probably the office is actually seen over this period because that sort of process started during the clinton administration. but actually, america has got, we are in spirit as from gods congress. but look at the middle east, look at the whole of the coming together. i think it was even 20 years

ago. people want that the sort of short term success. it's all it would do would be to turn china and russia against the united states and even possibly could have been working together against us. that's what's happened. and when it comes to the conservation that you were mentioning earlier, this time around, obviously, i mean, the china will remember it's embassy being destroyed, as nato broke up. your love, you ever had that time in, in the ninety's and poochie. and i think roy's remembers that russia should never have abstained on that. you end security council resolution on libya. so it's a bit different this time then majoring in moscow up, up to the tricks that washington my play and room will react differently. i mean, this is what china said to, to, to bring them to, to sup sullivan. you know, we're not doing this ala carte foreign policy where you just pick,

we don't like to cooperate with this. but on the other issues, it's a open warfare. we'll just go for you on human rights on trade, on whatever us healing our secrets, we will, we will pursue it. and they said, sorry, thank you. we don't do that. i know we put all the issues and we have a discussion and we do not accept neither russian china except the right of the united states to determine the global or rules based order that the united states does not have the right to determine the rules for a global order is not going to be acceptable to either of those state and they rejected very key. this is a big change because they say those very, very, very clearly when they sent envoys when, when the sharon goes to china with a tour and newland, they say look, here's our interest. when all prepared to talk to about this,

if you want to talk about taiwan, you want to be talk about these other issues. there are private or internal masses, hong kong in town, or by victoria, or it would be very tough be begin. look at her, a leaked phone call about the european union on line. i suppose. i don't know about the refugee crisis there, but i mean, here the english channel enormous numbers of people fleeing well from the was started by tony blair and, and george w bush all that time ago. but actually the news here is not mean about the refugees across the english channel. i'll give you far more going for france. it's about, of course, as you mentioned earlier, the better bruce poland border is putin responsible for hybrid warfare, as we're being told every day. here is a vanguard of this kind of opposition to washington's research and imperial policies. i mean, obviously dissolved something of

a standalone diplomatic stand or taking place between bella ruth and the european union. but when it started, all we were told, i have 4000 refugees on the other side of the fence to poland. now it turns out that there are only 2 has that. let's put this into context. is this going to be this hybrid wall? this going to bring down the or can union you would know better than me, but it have been experiencing one of the refugees arriving in a day. not over this period. i think the rhetoric you think is funny, being deescalate, you know, wiley refugees going that if not someone is recruiters of the refugees having them i, there are certain countries that up, you know, you get to open germany. obviously what britain united states from the

sun. so you try and find whatever was big and get and they will start off the refugee sitting on the roof side of the border made a very clear that destination is not. poland is small, the lot fear destination is made quite curious. german and maybe pull him in the way we get the i guess we got the idea on our tv screen. this is putins monster plan. it's not, it's not, i mean, you know, to have some refugees. i mean, germany's let in a 1000000. i mean, it's not, and anyway, it won't happen because they're slowly re penetrating them. put in the loop shanker to the high representative of your sources are less manager. we need some help and we'll do it. and we'll, we'll manage this, i think actually trying to sanction the airlines is actually going to europe

shooting itself in the foot. because if they do that, then not only belarus but russia will probably cut off the air space to european airlines. if that is what is done to them, and then are, all those british airlines trying to fly to asia will have 5 hours extra flying time. whereas emirates of the other asian airlines will be flying direct. the europeans will have a big loss on tourism. and on passengers flying to asia, i mean, i know i mentioned my 6 earlier, i know you got to talk with my 6. what do you think the fact that journalists report about all these things about beijing, about moscow in these ways are because they are influenced by hollywood ideas of james bond. is it this idea of the evil bond villain? that goes through journalist heads. it is, let alone politicians ads. it is a problem. i do think there's an extraordinary sense where you have been sort of me

taken up these narrative and they go, or even when there's no real basis of it, we've just seen one just now. for example, you will see, you know, russian troops on ukraine, border masses of troops on the border. i mean, the reality is that the troops that there are 200 kilometers away from the board, no putin is not intending to take over the ukraine. what he's wired about and what he's concerned about is whether in a desperate attempt to get nato and european support for imploding authority in kiev is going to try and use this dumbass as the tool in which to extract further support. nathan is already headed towards hope. remember that defensive defense preset that to about 3 weeks ago in europe

has been filling them or weapons merican for promising them or weapons to try and reunite really great dog bass you crave. and putin has no desire to go and take on, you know, the mass you crave, unless there was a real fear that forces back by the west, we're going to overrun the dom bus. and then it's, you know, it's the old story that you saw in britain where the falkland islands, it's about kick them k, k. most of these people. many, if you go to moscow, most russians have got a cousin or relative that listen don't boss. i mean, it's a russian speaking area totally, russian speaking, these russian currency and they're all closely related. so it's very difficult for, for put in would be to, nor carry on the invasion of the don bus very difficult

and that, and that low intensity. now battling is continued out for years of his in britain arming ukraine. optimism perhaps here the world is finance is on just from the military. industrial complex obviously, could change come from multinational corporations lobbying nato governments, one k street in washington over here in london saying look, we're starting to lose money on the considerations of ever more sanctions against aging. and moscow and iran even could it be multi nationals rather than it seems, democratic populations, pressuring politicians into some kind of detente. i think the most important thing actually happened in the, in the outcome of the american departure a couple. because what we saw in that afterwards was something quite striking.

the shanghai cooperation organized, they merged with the east asian european economic community, which merge with that is a security organization comprises much of what was he stood southern south asian, a soviet union into a single unit. that embraces something like 53 percent of the global population and $25.00 more. the center g, d p, a fast growing area. iran has, but i believe it into pakistan is a member of it. and then saudi arabia has to be a dialogue part. egypt to us to be a dial up. i think what we're seeing is a potential potential perhaps for new security architecture to emerge embracing parts perhaps of the middle east too. and that's quite striking that that could be

like the mechanism that could reduce some of the tensions to be used in this way. and it is clearly going to change the prospect for a country like iraq. they'll be a pipeline, i'm sure, going across from iran through afghanistan, long border kind of stuff into china, nor tough. i klein, hurdle, east, west corridor. all of these things are ongoing. i mean, that is an area where, you know, development is, is going to move very, very rapidly. rusher is just agreed to invest hugely in a cut. the can be all fine in the uranium factor of the caspian sea, huge amount money. so i think we're gonna see a big change from this discovery. is it going to be, i think this is why it is so much more confidence in russia and china just say to america, know, and united states increasingly are just doing the same. i'm sorry,

but we don't accept that you set the the roadmap. you are setting the global rules for, for, for the world, because there are other states who equally powerful and also because the strategic balance as shifted. america has a few right, is behind in the military sense, as well as in the technology and in the secret. thank you. that's it for one of your favorite shows of the last see who will be back on wednesday, the 12th of january, but until then stay safe. and you can watch all our interviews by subscribing to our youtube channel and falling us on all our social media. ah, i

ah. how's the world rings in the new year with fireworks illuminating landmarks around the globe? we recap some of the challenges of the past 12 months as cope. it continues to come to shadow. some positive predictions, low inflation and major markets will drop and the global economy will grow at the forecast the head from a major american investment bank. we're going to take a look of what to expect in the year ahead. plus, looking over our shoulder at some of 2020 one's big political spats, the divisive defense deal that so france frozen out as australia, britain of the us band, it together.