virtual meeting region being and joe, but i don't think it went well and i don't think very much was agreed kind of thing on the meeting and i followed a very touchy telephone call between brings and the chinese foreign minister on the case a few days before to prepare for, prepare for the meeting, and then there's been some fairly harsh words coming out of china in the, in the way of the meeting. essentially the, the chinese, certainly the foreign minister was saying very clearly to bring her listen, you're not going to have a good relationship with us. you're not going to have the sort of relationship competition if you like. well, no competition. while the explosive issue of taiwan continues and in the subsequent pastor,

they made it very clear that what they felt was in an editorial in the global times . they describe as this was hypocritical. what he said was nonsense underlined. the fact that this is a very serious issue, that the confrontation could come with the united states over the straits of taiwan. but if america, who goes on supporting secession isn't in taiwan if it goes on encouraging the fact to then we have long prepared for wall and i do, we don't know how to get through to the well or it isn't ty paid, but this is very fair it's very harris indeed. so i think, what was it a climb down immediately afterwards, then because the bite was reported the saying, look, there is no way that the usa is imminently about to recognize

a taiwan like 50 another, arguable us broccoli nations do. oh that's, i mean, you know, they actually have been speaking with 2 phases on this. the president keeps saying, of course one china policy exist. we're not changing the one china policy. but then again, you have jake sullivan, the us security advisor in an interview on cnn with that korea was paying very clearly listen. what we mean by managing this competition is the night of states for the foreseeable future. sess. the parameters of its own and its allies interest. we set the parameters and then when exactly they said yeah, but what have you actually agree during this time? what? what did you negotiations was trying to what's come up with us and sullivan said

just carried brian pay him wrong question. donna asked me that question. wrong metric that was, that was the tone of the the, the sullivan interview and fame equally, you know, not only always going to fit the people order for the guy for the board of the framework for the global order in our interests. but it's also going to support free liberal. busy mark everywhere. in other words, if we're going to be, if you like, if you like it was going to be a criteria or a framework for the lease or financial leads to continue to invest and explore capital. where they choose more of a way to china was expected to, to manage with this except the global order for this coming period. and then to

perhaps to be a, to cooperate as biting said to some, and as jake fellow said, and within the framework within this new global order. so our interest then there may be areas where we can co operate, trump put sanctions, whereas biden is sending war ships along with verse johnson worship. elizabeth grove, plus these sorts of threats and saying, cooperating economically. that's exactly. i mean, every, every week there is a new move on taiwan. incremental chop chop chop. if it moves closer and closer. of course, on the one hand, america says that it still supports the one china policy,

and they agree mm month subsequently. but every so often there is a new element. the type pay off is a cultural office is going to be designated instead of taiwan represented. this there are more visits by he merican fishers to taiwan ships go through regularly the taiwan straits to sort of to emphasize the freedom of fading. and people come like the australian prime minister come to taiwan and say, well of course i can see it would be possible either for australia or american, not just for taiwan. should china attack it or invade it? okay. well, similar synthesis was causing them. the chinese, this great anxiety about similar tenuously while that's happening in the south

china sea or the indo pacific as we now call it the all because we'll the pull out of get this done. i mean the obviously the we their easton took his time. is lambing movement has been taken off the u. s. terrorist list and china is putting $2000000.00 of burn leave investment to have get this done. one f b i whistle blow, sybil edmund sydney to see as jin chang is the next day. one is actually it happening simultaneously? is that credible that? no, it's a little bit. i think this is very credible because me and part of sullivan's talk . he said part of setting the part of setting this new global order. in the c n n interview. he said, well, he said also it would be based on enshrining the text of the declaration, the universal declaration of human rights into every international institution as

well as into the border. and i think it's very clear that it was us weaponized ation, along with climate change is a weapon is asia of china. and yes, i think that precisely this process, what do i call it? i would call it the cost of isolation of taiwan. and you, craig, and also probably j, province, justice, kosovo, was the started or was getting full diplomatic support saying we support if you like, kosovo internationally, allies and then it moves to the next stages of asking that they should be going can every part of the international community and it's just introduced a statement which he says it's exactly that. he said, there's no reason why taiwan shouldn't be in all those committees and institutions

of the united nations. they shouldn't be there on the civil a, a trade in every institution. and we support their inclusion in a substantial way in the united nations at every level. of course, he says, you know, they can't be representative of china, but they must be included in, or this is the cost of or playbook being repeated if like both of taiwan and ultimately i suspect it hasn't done it yet, but it, changing problems will be, will follow probably from from bad. so yes, i think that is a correct assessment. i mean, i want to get back actually to that causation phrase, you're using the quick sidebar for some of you is watching. when you use phrases like weapon, a zation of human rights or weapon zation of or what if the city,

i mean what, what does the weapon is? ation of human rights mean to those who are watching circle, mainstream media, of course, genocide, engine jang, let alone anywhere in the world where nato opposes. oh, there are. i mean a, the question of human rights chinese would say very panic. how we manage our human rights, isn't the amount of for us and how we deal with it, just like every country has its own human rights problems. the west is not immune from having human rights problems. we only have to look back at the things such as rendition that took place in the middle east, where the west would kidnap and take hosted people and then render them for torture in foreign presents. i think that would be testified as a human rights abuse. so the problem with that is essentially, is that,

is it being used to sort of talk in a particular country and a particular in a particular way? is it looking for human rights abuse in order then to hold china accountable and sanctioned? that's the process we're talking about. more sanctions being put on china, more isolation on china, trying to push it out to be international order and into isolation of human rights. and of course, you know, although human rights federation, i'm sure it's a very fine document. but different countries, different civilizations have different view. china tends to part social cohesion, the community as its human rights. i mean the rights of communities, the rights of the people as a whole, we in the west tended to price the individual human rights, individual identity rights, gender right. well. busy if you, i mean,

now we have so many more of these identity issues coming up, all of them can be used to put sanctions or penalize, or indeed other forms of the right punishment from a state. that's what, what can i say sion of human rights, which i mean, i think i support support all of them. but i suppose the point is it's in the beholder and it goes going down. i'mma is, is open as a group. i'll stop you there more from the former advisor to the european union type representative, the common forum and security policy after this break for ah, ah, well,

oh a ah ah whoa, happy new year special kaiser? it board with the one and only gerald salenti, originator of the transport gas man, you know, stuff ah, welcome back. i'm still here with former british diplomats allister group. why do you think the bible administration does not understand that if you are empower

certain groups that aren't necessarily pro washington's values, it can blow back after all the failures in recent decades. i mean, column pals, x chief of staff, larry wilkerson saying 0 afghan is done very aware, the cia was very aware of the week as being able to be used to destabilize beijing directly. these guys know the dangers of supporting is the mist extremism. for some notional idea of a geopolitical supremacy. i'm not sure, i mean post for, i think they're offering dangerous very much stuff in your christ, taiwan. and then other places that are all great, dangerous, that this can get out of control. it's very hard to manage the things when they stop, particularly ukraine, because the government there is not in control. the administration is,

is not really who has control over the country. but what i'm really trying to say to you is that i think what we're seeing is an attempt by certainly parts of elements in washington to create percent americans back, americans on paul. so, and to do that, they want to be quite aggressive and forceful. and so they put to these issues such as ukraine bell arose with russia and they're doing that, the key, russia on the back foot off balance to keep china off balance, but also particularly to try and give the vitamin ministration a success foreign policy. even if for foreign policy success, it's a strategic blog. i losing the war to gain the political

advantage to come back and say this was a great success. and this is really some of what's been happening in a way the night is paid is strategically way. but sometimes they can go back domestically and say, well, you know, we really gave the iranians what for in the last or we ready, did we tell china waco, china, or by wow, happening and we goes and it's genocide and it's not acceptable. and that's very important. in the domestic context of the united states, does it help you doesn't how the united states strategically probably the office is actually seen over this period because that sort of process started during the clinton administration. but actually americans got weak if you're in spirit has got stronger us. look at the middle east. look at the, the, the, the coming together. i think it was even 20 years ago. people want that the sort of

short term success. it's all it would do. would be to turn china and russia against the united states and even possibly could have been working together against us. that's what's happened. and when it comes to the conservation that you were mentioning earlier, this time around, obviously, i mean that china will remember, it's embassy being destroyed, as nato broke up. your love you at that time in the ninety's and poochie. and i think roy's remembers that russia should never have abstained on that. you end security council resolution on libya. so it's a bit different this time then major in moscow, up, up to the tricks that washington my play and room will react differently there. and i mean, this is what china said to, to, to bring them to, to support sullivan. you know, we're not doing this ala carte foreign policy where you just pick, we don't like to cooperate with this. but on the other issues, it's

a open warfare. we'll just go for you on human rights on trade, on whatever healing our secrets, we will, we will pursue it. and they said, sorry, thank you. we don't do that. i don't, we put all the issues and we have a discussion. and we do like set neither russian, china, except the right of the united states to determine the global or rules based order that the united states does not have the right to determine the rules for a global order is not going to be acceptable to either of those state and they rejected very please, this is a big change because i say this very, very, very clearly. when they sent envoys who am i, wendy sherman goes to china victorian newland. they say, look, here's our interest. when all prepared to talk to about this, if you want to talk about taiwan, you want to be talk about these other issues. there are private or internal masses

on call in time by, by victoria early, be very tough. be begin. look at her, a leaked phone call about the european union on line. i suppose. i don't know about the refugee crisis there, but i mean, here the english channel enormous numbers of people fleeing. well, from the was started by tony blair and, and george w bush all that time ago. but actually the news here is not mean about the refugees across the english channel. i'll give you far more coming from france. it's about of course, as you mentioned earlier, the better bruce poland border is putin responsible for hybrid warfare, as we're being told every day. here is a vanguard of this kind of opposition to washington's research and imperial policies. no, i am in those august as always from me, something of a stand off diplomatic stand or taking place between better bruce and the european

union. but when it started off, you know, we were told to, we're happy 4000 refugees on the other side of the fence to poem. now it turns out that there are only 2 sizes that let's put this into context. is us going to be, is this hybrid war that's going to bring down the or can union or you would know better than me, but as a pain experiencing was refugees arriving in a day. not over this period. i think the refugee thing is slowly being deescalate and why in the refugees going that is not someone is recruiters of the refugees having them i, there are certain countries set up, you know, you get to open germany. obviously what britain united states from the sun. so you try and find whatever route make and get,

and they will start off the refugee sitting on the roof side of the border made a very clear that destination is not. poland is small. the latter destination is made quite curious. german and maybe pull him in the way we get the i guess we got the idea on our tv screen. this is putins monster plan. it's not, it's not, i mean, you know, to have some retro, jeez, i mean, germany's let in a 1000000. i mean, it's not. and anyway, it won't happen because they're slowly re penetrating them. kitchen and shank to the high representative of your sources are less manager. we need some help and we'll do it. and we'll, we'll manage this, i think actually trying to sanction the airlines is actually going to europe shooting itself in the foot. because if they do that,

then not only belarus but russia will probably cut off the air space to european airlines. if that is what is done to them, and then are, all those british airlines trying to fly to asia will have 5 hours extra flying time. whereas emirates of the other haitian airlines will be flying direct, the europeans will have a big loss on tourism. and on passengers flying to asia, i mean, i know i mentioned my 6 earlier, i know you got to talk with my 6. what do you think the fact that journalists report about all these things about may jing about moscow in these ways are because they are influenced by hollywood ideas of james bond. is it this idea of the evil bond villain that goes through journalist heads? it is. let alone politicians ads, it is a problem. i do think there's an extraordinary sense where you have been sort of me taken up these narrative and they go even when there's no real basis of it. we've

just seen one just now. for example, you will see, you know, russian troops on ukraine, border masses of troops on the border. i mean, the reality is that the troops that have there are 200 kilometers away from the board. no. booting is not intending to take over the ukraine. what he's wired applied, and what he's concerned about is whether in a desperate attempt to get nato and european support from imploding authority and is going to try and use this dumbass as the tool in which to extract further support. they already said it also remember as a defensive to reset that to about 3 weeks ago in europe has been selling them or weapons merican for promising them or weapons to try and reunite

reintegrate dumbass to you. crave. and putin has no desire to go and take on the mess. it is ukraine, unless there was a real fear that forces back by the west, we're going to overrun the dom bus. and then it's, you know, it's the old story that you saw or in britain with a falkland islands. it's about kissing k k. most of these people. many, if you go to moscow, most russians have got a cousin or relative that listen don't boss. i mean, it's a russian speaking area totally, russian speaking, these russian currency and they're all closely related. so it's very difficult for, for booting would be to ignore kids on the invasion of the don bus very difficult and that, and that low intensity of battling is continued out for years of his in britain

arming ukraine. in some optimism, perhaps here, the world is finances aren't just from the military. industrial complex, obviously. yeah. could change come from multinational corporations lobbying nato governments, one k street in washington over here in london saying, look, we're starting to lose money on these considerations of ever more sanctions against aging. and moscow and iran even could it be multi nationals rather than it seems, democratic populations, pressuring politicians into some kind of de toned. i think the most important thing actually happened in the, in the outcome of the american departure they bought council. because what we saw enough to work with something quite striking, the shanghai cooperation organized, they merged with the east asian european economic community,

which merge with that is a security organization comprises much of what was eastern the southern south haitian, a soviet union into a single unit. that embraces something like 53 percent of the global population. 25 more percent g d p, a fast growing area. iran has, but i believe it into pakistan is a member of it. and then saudi arabia has to be a dialogue, egypt to us to be a dial up. i think what we see is the potential potential, perhaps for new security architecture to emerge embracing parts perhaps of the middle east too. and that's quite striking that that could be like the mechanism that could reduce some of the tensions to be used in this way. and it's

clearly going to change the prospect for country like iraq. they'll be a pipeline, i'm sure, going across from iran through afghanistan, long border kind of stuff in china, nor tough. i klein or east west corridor. all of these things are ongoing. i mean, that is an area where, you know, development is, is going to move very, very rapidly. rusher is just degree to invest hugely in the can be all fine in the uranium factor of the caspian sea. huge amount money. so i think we're going to be a big change from this discovery. is it going to be, i think this is why it is so much more confidence in russia and china. just say to america, know, and united states increasingly a just doing that same, i'm sorry,

but we don't accept that you set the the roadmap. you are setting the global rules for, for, for the world. because there are other states who equally powerful. and also because the strategic balance has shifted america has a few right, is behind in the military sense, as well as in the technology and in the assay, correct. thank you. that's it for one of your favorite shows of the last season. we'll be back on wednesday, the 12th of january, but until then stay safe. and you can watch all our interviews by subscribing by youtube channel and falling us on all our social media. ah, me the ah. l look forward to

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ah, as the world celebrates the new year with spectacular fireworks coming up this our now we look at some of the positive predictions being made for 2026 with financial experts forecasting the global economy is set to grow, while inflation will start to fall according to a major investment bank. and of course, we review this just gone. so we'll look at some of the big political spots that i'm forwarded, including a controversial defense deal that so france at loggerheads with .