this is i outlined at the end of the master in his embassy, where i gave an experiment we're the will be like if the left hemisphere is way of thinking, had dominated completely. and we no longer have access to the wisdom that the right hemisphere could give us, what would it look like? and the also was very like the society. i think readers could recognize that we were living in the since. and i think things have accelerated and the situation has become critical in many respects. and i believe very strongly that it's not, it's necessary to do many practical steps to the destruction of the planet and destruction of our society. but it's not just enough to do those practical things because if we don't change the way we think we'll just carry on repeating the same mistakes. you set it on many occasions, but i think it's worth repeating, that the master clarion metaphor is based on that class. of china,

the secret of the golden flower which compares our conscious mind to astride in general, who wants to control things from a distance until the sword is turned around. and then any such tales annessa around the world, usually resulting in things falling apart. i you sure that we are indeed on the down toward jack tree as opposed to, you know, things taking their natural developmental route than our consciousness or collective consciousness. differentiating through trials and tribulations me inevitably include some extremes. i call myself a hopeful pessimist by which i mean it doesn't look good, but i hear rush and then at least by spirit. good will i like that? so thank you for the government. i think i'm hopeful in the sense that we never do really know what is coming next and times in history. one can be very surprised by

a sudden turn in the human spirit when required. but i do think we need such a turn know, i'm mostly hopeful that there are enough people who see this problem is as important as it is. and what i want to do in this book is give carriage really to people to see the world in a different way, which i think intuitively they have an understanding that historically, as you pointed out in the mythologies around the world, people have intuitive to way in which their own minds work, they've been to that there is a bit that is very talkative and thinks it's very clever but doesn't know very much . and when that dominates the rest of one's wisdom, which is implicit and embodied, then travel starts to happen. and so i think people recognize that there is that problem and i'm giving people confidence to, to reject a very simplistic point of view that is being rammed down our throats by popular

science and journalism that really we know that which is we don't, we know that the world is appointed heap of fragments that have no meaning, shape, beauty, or complexity of purpose. and that we are part of that mess. and i have to reject this vision of humanity who we are and what the world is and how we connect. and i do that by rigorous examination of science of neurology and physics along with philosophy and point. if you are often me, is that the last promise here, 1st we presentation to present an app instead of a terrain here traction instead of a body leaving. and it would be useful and rewarding at times, but too much of anything becomes unpleasant and think this is the point where both our individual and collective psyche demands a correction not just ask for

a correction that demands it. i think you're right, has our collective right hemisphere been so dormant and so pack that when it's time tree has been irreverently invaded and misused with a number of problems with the right hemisphere. if you like it, it's one that knows very much more and understands more. and it's a very complex picture. the left hemisphere doesn't really know very much, it just knows what to do to press the button to make things happen for it. right hemisphere, it doesn't even have language and it has language, but it doesn't have speech for most of us are right. hemisphere count speak, it all has to be passed through the left hemisphere is ability to put that into words and language. and in doing so, it distorts and in all the coaches that i've looked at, and the ancient wisdom coaches of east and west,

there is an ancient awareness that language betrays, he's very deep and it's very useful everyday things, you know, can i have a cup of coffee, but when it's actually coming to the issues of what his love, what his time work, what is because most made of what do we mean when we talk of the sacred these things are incredibly difficult to express and it's much easier to we say it's money for road road, which means it's extremely easy to get away with rubbishing. all those things say, well, you know, they can, we don't really need to take them into account. we can't measure them, we can't see them. but actually they are the, the important things our lives center on. you also point out in the book that this specialization here is rolled out of all living beings, necessity to keep or focus on to you. why don't things that wants to eat and not be

eaten, and when it comes to the issue of sustenance, you know, the basic conquerors are basic security of my lease and the western world. that problem is solved, but it seems that the left hemisphere and after number not because you're right in many of your books, it's primarily be western problem. if in fact, let's say the china civilization or the russians or some of the south americans to much lesser expand people in the why. why do you think that is the historical differences in the history of ideas? but i think the reason is dominating in the west, and sadly you mentioned china, which from which we could have learned a lot. it's ancient traditions of wisdom, rich and important. but now, alas, china is, is more pernicious lee, occidental than the west is, is because it's taking the worst part of the west and exaggerated it kind of how

many layers, you know, they, they mean one thing and be totally different when they're in the privacy of their own home, correct, all complex, and we are in the west as well. say there are many people who live the culture has this repay, she's quality. they themselves share that sense of the need to destroy and sees. but i think it has become an addiction really in the west. the sense of power is highly addictive. the left hemisphere, if you'd like to put it very simply, it's rational dentures control. it's, it's reason for existence is that it helps us manipulate and control and anxious when it's not in control and doesn't have the power. it becomes paranoid. and that's the world that we've entered into. it's a very one sided picture of you know, in my own psychological struggles in development. i came to think that some of my

pleasant symptoms, persistent thoughts absolutely, and for so long precisely to allow the internal law to run it, making sure no change to crystallize. gather steam and take hold more deeply. i wonder if that would also be applied to our collective psyche or western collective psyche is one of the reasons why, as i say, a difficult thing to predict the future because it's not as the left hemisphere things linea. when you go very far in one direction, you don't get further and further away from itself is it you get closer and closer to its opposite? which is why so often the outcomes of paradoxical society strives to freedom and becomes a tyranny. in russia, you have seen this with in fact, we can't predict what will happen when a certain thing changes as in that expression from the, the secret of the go,

the flow, the sort is turned around. well that, that moment when the sword is turned around may come at a moment of crisis. i think someone says, the worse it gets, the better it gets, it, meaning that the more things build up to something that really is present and destructive. the more there is a drive to change it. and in this regard, i guess we can see the proliferation of the so called ease of despair in the west anxiety alixia depression. not necessarily as something that is going to do in the western civilization. but actually the signs of recovery and feelings calm because every symptom, as i'm sure you would agree contains, and that i know of something that is my stupor and something that calls for being reveal yes. and it also,

workspace way. see the things that we think some of us have a dark side and denying the dark side. you mentioned, you know, who's a keen on this idea and he meant he had a, a concept in n t a drum. yeah. which meant that by going in one direction, you achieve the opposite. so getting away from a linear idea of reality towards one in which opposites tend to go together is a kind of important insight. i think one that we could explore at length, but we didn't have time to school yet. well, unfortunately, we don't have time and we'll go more than that. we have to take a very short break right now. and dr. mcgill, christie will be back in just a few moments. ah, here

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on offensive, very dramatic development. only i'm going to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical time time to sit down and talk with a with

issue with no, i mean logical put that amount with ah welcome back to work with miguel chris reeder's psychiatrists and also in matter with dr. my gilchrist, essential idea of your book as a time that is the way we dispose our consciousness towards the world pre determines what we find me. if we look out for some concrete, explicit things,

we may find them, but you may also lose something more important in the process. how do you personally train your mind to stay open to your conscience? think do you have any bice? practically the practical advice becomes rather have been no, but i think the thing is that one can do practices of meditation, procedure mindfulness, are all about attending to things in an open way rather than already conceiving them as part of this mental map. the representation you describe is already the left hemisphere has we need to re encounter the right and the presence, the reality of the whatever it isn't in front of us. and that is actually a spiritual go and it's also go much great art. and many of the british spirits that i know have talks about the way in which the imagination

key is ways of a familiarity to bring something forward. for the 1st time, spending more time in nature. because nature speaks to us in many, many ways emotionally, to our senses in an embodied way. it shows us how complex the world is. minds we can think we've worked it all out. it's simple, but we see these infinite be complex. living systems that speak to us, this changes the way in which we think about the world to an emphasis on all those things, spending time in nature, spending time with the art, with music. she was reading, imaginative work philosophy. i think to me and meditation. what i like about your book is that you approach the question of the sacred the ultimate arrived common issue with the direct mess. granularity of the last time a year. and i think to mr. 5 domestic to the expand,

the current knowledge allows and i would even say it's not a compliment. i really think that you do the same thing that probably used to do, you know, engaging both judith and with his diamond in a, in a very rational and ritual way. marrying those 2 things. i wonder if that's what our time our is ultimately about redefining they create an established a new relationship with it's perhaps a more interactive relationship rather than serve and or suppressive as before. but i think is an enormously important part of what it means to be a human being. and just because it's very difficult to articulation to argue about, doesn't mean it's negative law doesn't exist. that's a huge mistake. pharmacies mistake. there are many things that go beyond language

and beyond reason, and they're all really important things. that's why we have poetry and that's why we have music. that is indeed why we have religious rituals and narratives and miss because they embody things that are not lies just because they are not in comfortable with. in everyday science, they go beyond into, around which greater sciences and graces. rationality is lies beyond the scope. that's not to disrespect science and reason i'm a scientist and i think that the world needs more good designs and good reason. but we also need to engage intuition and imagination. so i see these things is absolutely not in conflict. is the left hemisphere, in fact, that has set these things up as opposites. whereas in fact, if you pay attention to the way in which great scientific and mathematical discoveries were made, you can see that they involve insight, intuition, and imagination. such are the greatest artists. so i want to see the bringing

together these things. i'm glad that you pointed out that in, in trying to draw attention. because me as a lot of time and effort, i can tell you to write about the safe it. because whatever you say is somehow wrong, you know, i understand this is a prime or they'll drive, i mean, this is something that you can kind of be flashed, but it's also a fine line to walk people or humans in indirect rather than god. that's a rather shaky ground. i mean, it can get you into the chronic realm with a project rel, very quickly, has that ever been an issue for you? how to stay human safely in the presence of those crime, more detail forces of being human is to deal with these primordial forces. that's my point and it's not a question over you can avoid it. and the rest of this book were something

that took me over. it was like socrates described having a dime mon, a demon that directed him. and i felt this very strongly in writing. this book when i tried to do is to present a whole new philosophy of life. and of course, most what things are and how we can know them. because i think the deadly need of this. if we don't have some vision of who we are, what the world is and how we relate last. so there was a very strong drive to do this. and i knew it would be a colossal task and take me a very long time and it nearly killed me. but i've survived that and people are responding warmly to it. so i'm very pleased about this. you mentioned that when you were writing it, you had an experience similar to the one the credit had with his dominant actually . you know, i tend to believe that we see a lot of people these days who have

a direct immediate relationship with their i'm countries and i found some support for him to work and were that you're a union analyst who rode that into work and the christian architect but starting from the mid 1500 be the number of such a direct experiences have started to enhance the why could more and more people for example be something that they saw particular say apostle paul experience is now becoming available to you more and more people you see that the support for that in your work. so what do you think it would mean for humanity? i understand there is no definitive answer there, but some of your institutions maybe, gosh, i know, i'm not sure i know about this increase in these experiences. what i do know is that if you ask people in this country, do you believe in god, in terms of belonging to religion, perhaps about 11 percent of the population say so. but if you asked and have you

had any experience or something that convinces you that there is far more to this world than the materialist, reductionist account, 95 percent of people say so they've clearly see something and there are many experiences. i think what may give the impression that it's on the increase is actually the internet and the ability for people to to find other people who have these experiences and to talk about them in the past. perhaps that was more difficult. but i think they're probably one of the, you know, it's a mixed blessing the internet. it has, it's very dark effects and it has some lighter effects. and one may be that it has brought fluid. this awareness that many people do have life changing experiences to which they say i can no longer believe that there is nothing to ryan in this world . i've experienced it. so i'm glad you mentioned the world wide web because your book, you use the experience,

the image of the web as an illustration of how the right time of your approach is the world through the prism of relationships rather than the life of things that i be related to what's important and then add all these things that are caught in it, but rather the intersection. that's what makes the whole structure. and i think over the last couple of years, we've seen dramatic proliferation of various mass structures starting with the internet, but also various social groups, even more integrated ways of doing science. you know, sizes are working together from all over the worlds and various project. lots of, for example, commerce in local communities on a global level. so this combination of the local and big mobile isn't that's also one of the indications of the collective right hemisphere or the right hemisphere. ways reasserting themselves. i can see that you could see it that way and you referred to some very positive aspects of this process. but there are other,

the others that are very obvious. manifestations of the left hemisphere mindset. the virtualization, the abstraction from a deep context, the dis embodiments and the setting up of clues to bubbles in which people only hear reinforcements of their own point to view. this is very typical of the left. it sees it seeks to hear only watch it already thinks it knows too. i think it can do like things it can, it can be used for good or ill. i think a lot of it is not very good, but it has its benefits. 5 person benefit from it because i live in a rather remote positive person on an island that's a long way from a library. but because of the internet, i can access learning journals at 2 o'clock in the morning. if i went to this is wonderful. i can certainly

a resident or some of the dangers that your articulating question because them a russian and we, the russians chan to be very much a tune to this right hemisphere calling i, you know, all things mystical and you know, the end of history of golden age visions of bertha as you know, perhaps from our history. sometimes it could lead you into very, very dark corners. when you hear divine callings and when you try to concrete ties them. if could get very dangerous, we talk about the radical transformation personality transformation in that happens to society as a whole. busy i would you welcome it? no, i think you're pointing to is. and i think there's a greek saying that when god bills the church,

the devil builds one right next door. and i think this is way in which the dark and the light to go to the evil are very close to one another. and you need to see quite carefully the history of religion is full of people who thought that they were on the side of god. and we're doing evil things, so people can be mistaken and i can relate this partly to differences because in order to understand religion, you have to have a certain degree of humility before things that you may not understand, you need to be compassionate. you need to be flexible in need so hard to the opposite. so the hidden and everything you're saying. whereas for the last time i said there is just a truth and it's in this book we wrote it down. and now this is the truth. and if you don't believe this truth, you are bad and we are good and we are right and you are wrong. and all this is the

opposite of the experience of any religion. and of course it's the opposite of christ. and it's up to this, the mystical traditions of the orient. i my so much. i also find that the last time i had this so was anxious relationship with time. once everything to be done, not just in time but had a time. and when i try to hurry things up, that's when the trouble usually happens in it, not only with religion, let's say i'm in the future of my country, marxism leninism. i also try to be ahead of time and you know that costs many millions of people that live with us. things that have happened in the world have been done by people who had a great vision of how society could be better. that great vision is typical of a left hemisphere representation is not real. it doesn't take into account any of the complexity of reality. the subtlety you various and complex people,

i put them into categories as this love is bad, we'll get rid of them. you know, and change is an organic process, changes and evolution. and the opposition is not between the stasis and everything must stay the same, and everything must be radically changed. radical change is not the way that kills . if you take a plant and you wanted to grow up the world, you don't pick it out to the ground. and stick it half way up to you got a dead plan, not going to achieve the end that you want. you train the plant to go and to thrive in a certain way. i always say a garden account make a plan, don't even make a plant growth. oh god. and i can do is either stunt the plans and stop it from growing or give the place in which it will thrive. and that is what we need to be doing is not trying to make things happen according to our will,

because we've got the idea. usually our idea will be have brain, crazy idea, which will hopefully cause suffering and destruction. what we need to do is to be encouraging and giving space to things that we can see good, creative, compassionate, and let them grow and flourish. well, unfortunately, history, you only have thought that i have never thought anyone, any glasses, but perhaps it will be a different time around every room has an exception. my gilchrist has been great pleasure for me talking to you. thank you very much for that. thank you very much for inviting me. look very good and thank you for watching. i hope to hear again next week on the part ah, with

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