are not common criminals for their enemy, combatants and terrace, who are b did chained for acts of war against our country. and that is why different rules have to apply on to the continuity is extraordinary. if you look at the sketch of the cubicle and of the student volunteer and mcgill university, and then if you look far for the 2002, when the 1st al qaeda suspects are being confined at camp x, right? at montana malay, they're in goggles, gloves and here most that look, i god, just like that. 1957 sketch in after 911. all of us working at p h r. i realized that there would very likely

be a huge problem of interrogation. gone wild, meaning torture, cruel. in human integrating t treatment. both the use of extreme isolation was one of a range of techniques that were employed by officials interrogators and so forth. literally starting all the way back in 2002 for many, many days. and that is just unbelievably destructive. i was the 1st to really learn to go down there in the commission process in a 4 to 6 months period. you see a market deterioration in many respects. with mister a year or 2 solitary confinement, you're going to ask the defendant the 1st time in 2 years,

tis too to interact with other humid beaks. beyond his lawyer and his jailers. it's going to be the jury that's going to decide his life. he's going to be put on the stand, and that's where he's going to speak for the 1st time to the world for 2 years. if to be shut off from the world, it's impossible on who is spent about 9 years and active duty. and then i'm still in the reserves in 2011 . the department of defense assigned me to assist on the team, representing ecology mohammed the the li defendant in the 911 case. what i can say is that the u. s. government has acknowledged that for the periods between 20032006,

mister mohammed was held at, had certain undisclosed foreign locations, black size, otherwise known as black cents. right? it was what a boarded over $183.00 times that correct. i can say that there is a memos between the department of justice. i various organs in the us government from cuba, department defense, the central intelligence agency, as to what types of enhance interrogation techniques would be authorized for certain types of detainees who when they began consigning for fontanello, they moved to having psychologists do interviews with patients discovering vishal flaws, individual sources of trauma and security. and then they, they all said discovered because they were demanding with arabs and muslims. ah,

the muzzle nails are uniquely upset by annuity. and also by female physical contact. and fear of dot race has always played a role in american tortures. the american torture techniques are part of old military punishments and punishments that were used on slaves and, and in you might find that strange, but there was one area where slaves were never whipped, but you use clean techniques on them. so they didn't leave marks. and that was, if you're going to sell a slave, because a slave that had with marks means that they were not going to obey. and so a clean slave was passa got a higher price. ah,

the cotton industry in the southern delta states of the united states depended completely on torture. over the course of, for decades human beings by using their bodies as a technological form, as a technological machine were able to multiply by 8 times the amount of cotton, an individual person could pick in a single day. so the use of torture is absolutely tied at the root from the very beginning. ah . 2 in these kinds of cases, many people in the system, the people who are imposing these conditions,

believe that ordinary punishment is too good for these people. and a lot of it is about the other dis of them religiously, ethnically, nationally. culturally, it's easier than it would be to someone from your own community to do that. so in guantanamo being. the secretary of defense rumsfeld appointed a commander jeffrey miller, whose job was to extract information. and jeffrey miller made up a cd or staff did. and i included a rack and i under the po with the permission of the commander there. general sanchez even can rent training sessions for the interrogators and the staff at abu

ghraib prison. or he transmitted the guantanamo techniques to the abil gradstaff. basically, the restraints were removed and they were told to get results. the thing that became so clear is that what united states was doing was not a secret. it was hidden in plain sight. it wasn't really until the photographs from abu ghraib were released, which were just, you know, the tip of the iceberg of what was actually happening. that people in this country began actually talking about it what we didn't know was exactly what to do. and i had to work on them all over the recommend exactly the right. same course of actions that we did italian room

for seeing them all. not all of them i can differently whether one does 1600 of them. we've only seen up in about 20 maybe 30 is 1600 and i think the worst ones are are the ones we haven't seen on

so yes, they were violating a lot. i regulations and what they were doing, but the that they were operating within a system in which they were condition they were structured in order to violate those laws when you arrived at the wave where you aware of what had happened there. oh, almost immediately after we arrived global drive, we were briefed that there was misconduct, but we weren't given details. and the interrogators that i knew who had been there during that time didn't. they didn't talk about it. so we, we didn't know i, i learned everything through the news. we understood the geneva conventions to mean

that absolutely. you know, you, you, you couldn't, you, you couldn't harm anybody in your care that your primary responsibility was their well being rather than putting him in distress. but then we were confused and then of, you know, of course we got these memos from the justice department and from the pentagon. ah, authorizing the use of much more harsh techniques. we started adopting those techniques when i was station in mosul, among them were stress position, sleep deprivation. i inducing hypothermia to say any, any way we can put them in distress using dogs. this is, this is a thought so called slippery slope so that they take the gloves off policy allowed american interrogators from going from a certain list of techniques that were let's say aloud. and even those were already

torture to doing extreme things, rape and sodomy in, you know, at the most extreme forms of physical and psychological brutality on no borders line to nationalities. and you as a merge, we don't have authority. we don't to look back seen the whole world leads to take action and be ready. people are judgment. 2 common crisis with we can do better, we should be doing better. every one is contributing each in their own way. but we

also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great, the response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with yes ma'am. oh, oh, risky is that will you? elisa, typical there's only 9 but already 8 university students that away on slash a guess. this is a new model appointment. let's see. yep. you've got the was restored to deal with the video. no bluetooth enabled a. so the loss of his mother you someplace younger terms that he may come from no recalls. he really shows control

such programs. now, bush like nebraska, of course with level you're special, but i was the yeah, my i was thinking what the plan was to get up to him was in your mind it was i'm doing well just to double you that he where little was as much carl with soon lose with, with his teacher was all reason is bernice a good mm . oh. when i was showing wrong, when i just don't know. i mean you have to say proud disdain becomes the advocate an engagement. it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds of warren, we choose to look for common ground

with you can just torture somebody on a whim without knowing how to do it. and the reality, of course, is that torture like any physical skill right? requires training, requires practice. it requires an institutional setting, a built environment, really, you need to have this institution, my space, physical space in which you can perform torture. we want, you know, we, we want to be successful. i was against the war, i'm a liberal, i didn't vote for george bush, but i wanted to do my job well, you know, i felt like, you know, if i can be successful and get intelligence from these people, then we could in the or quickly that would be better for, for iraq, better for,

for us my, the people who are, for the reason days has been a focus, a few who have betrayed our values in solving the reputation of our country and with 6 or 7 investigations underway and a military justice system that has values we know that those in law whoever they are will be brought to justice in. i was angry at our leadership because i knew that they were prosecuting interrogators and guards and leadership wasn't being held accountable. i i, i was disappointed myself and our behavior were there was terrible. so i was, i was, i was very angry when the, i have a great trial happened. i i,

i got a call from the lawyer for chip frederick, and he asked me to act as part of the defense team. i said, well, the person that you should really talk to his is, embargo. he ran this experiment in the 19 seventies and the situations at abu ghraib as far as i can tell, are those conditions that are also reproduced in the the embargo experiments. chip, frederick, he's the man here. oh, he was the one who had the idea of putting electrodes on on the hood. his lawyer said, the problem now is the military want to use him in a shell trial in baghdad. in abu ghraib, not only not a single senior office that went to trial, not a single senior office, they got a recall letter of reprimand. in fact, in some cases,

they even got promoted to the offices. so it's, it's the people at the top always take care of the people at the top. mm. for those individuals who were directed by the us government to, to engage in any technique that i believe would price level torture, crore and human or degrading treatment. i think they lose a little bit of themselves every time they have to come in and human act. and am i parker is out to them as well. i, frankly, in, i don't think i noticed that until i got back. and then, you know, i tremendous guilt and i think a lot of us develop signs that were later diagnosed as p p s. d.

but i don't know. i think that they have another name for now and i figure it's called like moral moral failure. sorts of assistance is feeling that people come back with after being in war. if they feel like they think they've done things better outside of their moral compass. ah, we're still evaluating how we're gonna approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. and i don't believe that anybody is above the law. on the other hand, i also have a belief that we need to look forward as lowe's, as possible, of looking backwards ah, will look forward backward. well,

forward is going to be like backward. if you don't do something about what happened in the past, nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past. and for this, among other people, i fault. president obama, essentially he gave everybody, dick cheney donald rumsfeld. he gave them all a free pass george w bush. they're all going to be rehabilitated. they're all going to be treated as great statesman. one day. i mean, they gave president obama a nobel prize for not being george w bush. the question, of course, the world tap, dancing around or avoiding as does it work as torture work doesn't work. people that have information that are part of an underground apparatus, a terrorist organization at revolution or organization accomplished organization. whatever organized form of collective balance sheet i, b, they won't break now. and the people that you pick up that are innocence.

yes. you tell them to pieces, you'll destroy them, you will ruin them. i think that a few of the people that passed passed through my hands as an interrogator did have intelligence. but most of the vast majority of the people that i dealt with work just being picked up because they were males of military age and they were just get swept up and he's res, i don't think torture is always being used as a method to gain information or, or confessions it's often just been used are out of it out of anger and fear for

right after september 11th attacks, september 11th, 2001 a very well known harvard law professor islander show which came up with the ticking bomb theory. and he said, so what happens, for example, if a terse, as a ticking time bomb a small nuclear bomb in times square and upon sticking, and we only have so much time, we must torture. and then, you know, the show 24 of course started every segment with that giant clock ticking away. and it kind of gave visual reality visual imprint that resonated with this discussion of ticking time bomb. in addition to the way that it framed our reception of torture. on a popular level, just among the civilians in guantanamo itself,

they were getting pressure from the department of defense and they have these meetings. and in the meetings they screened the 2nd season of $24.00 and use that as a jumping off place to decide what tortures what methods they were going to propose to donald rumsfeld that they would use against the people they were holding in guantanamo. they was very influential on the people that i worked with. i know that some of the techniques that people wanted to use they had should they had seen on television programs. for instance, i mentioned to you our leaders wanted us to mark and mark executions. and also using electricity, and these were things that they had seen on television this. i mean, no, no one trained us on that. that wasn't, that was simply from tell we're here in the united states, we have this picture of torture as something that is done by the lonely

person, the lonely hero, the man who does it more in sorrow than in anger because he's absolutely forced to because so many lives depend on it, is willing to take the moral stain and the moral pain on him. and in order to save all these people, there was always this anxiety in american politics. which is that democracy kind of makes, makes weaker and less capable of taking the real things that real men should be able to do. there is a very gendered, masculine este sort of notion behind this real men, torture and and, and democracy makes of sissy's blue. in the middle east, we have people shopping, the heads of christians. we have things that we have never seen before. i would bring back water boarding and i'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than water boarding.

house today is your and your terrors be when can be a free trial, detention in m. c. c. turn south for 2 years. they're dirty. where would you say that the manhattan m. c. c is, while he done in plain sight, a black sight, an american song? yes, i would say it's a black side that the sense of the black sites that people are being taken out and tortured, but they're being tortured in the way that their daily lives are being managed or not managed. they're not living a day without a life. they are a, a neglected product in a warehouse where there's no maintenance, you know, i mean, even like the most the most, sol,

negating place i've ever bid. one of the things that we need to consider now is become a quite an issue. is how many of these soldiers who used to participate in these kinds of american techniques are now policeman and immigration officers who managed mexicans and hispanics and other sorts of things in integrations. today, there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques, including freezing rooms sleep deprivation, all these things are now being used on, on, on immigrants and children. so this is one of the terrible things about techniques is that they circulate between war and home and whatever you do and war comes home ah. ready ah

. ready if we keep torture clean. ready then we can feel that the thing that's being done to protect us isn't really so bad. we have become used to the idea that it is a legitimate moral stance that we do anything we need to in order to feel safe to feel secure. i mean a bizarre way, it's as if the government is trying to make a deal with us. you let us do whatever we want over here on the dark side. and in return i promise you will never die. it's like this fake promise of immortality. but of course, what time on the history of the american empire, a certain 50 years from now, historians might have to say, as french historians have said about france, algeria, that something was lost in the russian bridge. so torture of moral authority that made america war later sacrificed for this the shamira of effective interrogation. ah,

ah, ah, ah, ah. with

no other shares. they're happy to report pleasant sounding lines. our politicians are constantly telling us, pleasant lies. i'm a show. we dare to dow then too unpleasant truth. oh, is your media a reflection of reality? ah, in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation, whole community. are you going the right way? where are you being that somewhere? direct. what is true?

what is faith in the world corrupted? you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. a gothic will put it up on us. can i please get a quote man, he liberties keith is going to push and push it. if i had a few, but i just somebody somebody from a few minutes ago was 3 to what i still love the stuff that we started at the but i booked a believe about what we did get hope. all right, so what you, what we believe if you know, if this was a wild like it, but here for a weaker lia, from what i show up for tex, mr. i've been busy with

a criminal negligence, downtown russia foreign ministry is describing the work of some western journalists seeking to mislead the public into believing russia wants to invade ukraine. dislike, continuous denials from official. in most all sides are openly calling for a di escalation. some nato member states off sending miss files and other weaponry to ukraine. the u. k. in the arms of self defense and posed no threat to russia, didn't promise you, would i have probably, you know, performed with anybody thought what have you as president joe biden says his job performance has been della. but the latest poll.