we started adopting those techniques when i was station and mosul among them were stress positions, sleep deprivation, and using hypothermia. there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used on immigrants and children, whatever you do in war and comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past and the moral authority, the made america awarded or sacrifice for the shimmer of effective interrogation. there may or may, we should all be mayor, may we so all be angry and was going on right. can't understand united states history on us and the role that slavery play is already very formal institution. at a time, united states became a nation. it actually defined the nation,

the rise of capitalism clearly on the backs of slightly eminence laid down. if you had investigated lynchings, any great extent you believe in your country and the country still stands in brick . i'm from the south. everybody know, know what they're signify. to some extent, i would argue that we're still fighting the civil war and the south is winning. hey folks, next up, rarefied air with mark senate. now you're saying who and i'm telling you this cat did a documentary on everest, about a 1924 expedition. they feel there's a camera left up there. that might tell us of somebody beat edmund hillary to the summit. indeed by 22 years. if that's not enough, the stag is also one of the pre eminent wall climbers in the world rights for nat geo. a good guy, mark,

senate right after this and then it's miller plus one. 3rd . a folks welcome to dennis miller plus one, and we're happy to welcome marcus snapped to the show. today mark is in new york times. best selling author big wal climber adventure. i think he is done the mother mountain. he specializes in remote 1st a sense which i think was my, i think that was my twitter handle for a while and a big wall. busy climbs has been on more than 30 of these climbing expeditions. he's also contributor for nat geo. marks. latest book, the 3rd poll mystery obsession and death on mount everest is out. now mark senate. hey mark, how you doing? good, dennis. great to be here. i sent a document already on the mallory thing. i'm fascinated by it. rather i 1st can't

believe they tackle that in clock coats. me they. they've got just the data base. i sort of got. mallory does the r e i doesn't exist, break it out. a cloth code, it seems to me what's your theory on? explain the expedition to the uninitiated in the audience and what's your theory on it? well, yeah, no, it's cool that you know the story. a lot of people don't. now alorie, i think the one thing people know about him is that he's the guy who, who said, because it's there when he was asked why he wanted to climb mount everest. i was just was back in the back in the 1920s. and yeah, a lot of people don't realize that like how close these guys came to somebody. everest in in 1900. 24. george mallory and sandy irvin were last seen at 28200 feet. ok. that's 800 feet below the

summit. still going strong. ok. they were still going up on june 8th, 1924. that is 29 years before the official descent of the mountain and the clouds came in, they disappeared. the the big question and like one of the big mysteries of exploration. but for sure with ever asked is, could they have summited before they disappeared? and they were carrying this little camera. i actually have one it's called the kodak v p k. and i mean this thing is awesome. sand call, supposedly they had this with them. and so it's been kind of this holy grail of exploration to find that camera because the technicians at eastman kodak have

said that they think that the film might be salvageable. and so that's what we set out to do is to try to find the camera, develop the film, and then finally answer the question, of course, the dream you know, for me in so many other people is there is a picture, you know, of those guys on the magic and that's what our trip was all about. us in the spring of 2019 on the chinese side, which is the north face of mount everest. brother, i'm trying to think o clock 728000 and somebody down and base camp with a suite scope or what. and they look like there. and where does that stand visa be? the hillary step is that above or below the hillary stuff. so the hillary step, i believe, is a little bit above that, but the hillary step is on the other side of the mount. so they were on the other side. so they were in china because it was the only place where they could get access to the mountain and when they were on their stomach bed,

one of their teammates, a guy named noel. dow was coming it up in support. and so he was about one day behind and he was at 26000 feet. and the upper part of the mountain was all engulfed in clouds. and then the, the, the clouds just sort of vaporized for a moment any, any, had this famous sighting and he saw them climbing, knock, and climbers. have been debating it ever since about what he saw and what he didn't see. but he was always adamant. i write about that in my book and he's a big character in the story because he led this incredible life of his own and and you know, was never able to sort of like get beyond the fact that he was the guy who last saw, you know, these to hear listen, the book he's talking about is something i am downloading when i got to get the

pictures. so i have to wait for the hard copy, the 3rd pole, mystery obsession and avarice. i'm fascinated by it in the same way. i'm fascinated by catch it in the her f one or guys that are just drawn to sunday. i look at a car like back weathers and his whole life, the sort. i think he's a dentist or some a leads that sort of life and something harkins, something beckon's back, and he ends up paying the piper for, but at least takes the stab. and do you have any of that you, man, you must, you must siphoned some of it off in the wall climbs which are fraught, but it's not fraught at $29.00. it's not fraught to death, quite frankly. and when do you have a party you that's drawn inexorably to the flame? yeah. 100 percent? ever ever since i was a little kid. mallory called it the spirit of adventure. and you know, he had his famous quote. someone said, hey,

why do you want to climb everest? he said it because it's there. but what a lot of people don't know is that someone asked him again and he gave a better answer. and what he said was for the stone, the stone, for the, for the geologist, for the knowledge of the limits of human endurance, for the doctors, but above all, for the spirit of adventure to keep alive the soul of man. and you know, before we went on there, you and i were talking a bit about everything that's going on in the world. i mean, we got to have a spirit of adventure, you know, as a, as a place to escape and to get back to our, to our roots in our, our essence as, as human beings. and i figured out what i was a little kid and i've been pursuing it ever since. and it's, it's, it's, it's basically been my whole life. and i hope that it will never end, you know,

part of what i've done is i've, i've turned it into my job. so i go on big adventures and i know mild stories about them. and, and now with my work as a, as a journalist for national geographic, you know, i kind of expanded beyond the climbing and i'm looking for the places where adventure collides with history and adventure collides with, with science and, and with the knowledge of the limits of human endurance and there are so many stories out there like that, as i'm sure you know, and they're, they're unlimited. and i think people and you could attest to that. people are fascinated by how we react. and what we do when, like all the ships are down and you're faced with, you know, life and death. and i think that that's something that's just in our dna as human

beings. and we've kind of gotten away from it quite a bit in the modern day world. and i don't know anything better than going out and putting yourself in situations where you have to, you know, face some of those, you know, elemental things that, that we were designed, you know, to, to deal with and to contend with an eternally fascinated by shackleton. i went to antarctica on an ice breaker. i got as far. 1 as you can before you got to get out of the hike, i think it's 56 south peril. our something and i was with shackleton great grand nephew. i don't even know what the hell that connection means. but i know he had a lot of stuff and he gave a speech by the one i was in his speech. it's 3 hours. i'm just sitting in the salon on this both thing and i can't get enough of this and he did. it blows my mind that he didn't lose one person mark. i mean, can you imagine that that he gets that whole?

that's the most mind boggling story. i've ever heard incredible and you know, think about the grid that those guys had back then and you know, how much great to people have nowadays? quite a bit last, i mean, i don't mean to like golfing or market nosebleeds when a social climb. now forget the mountains their, their tap with the tick tock. not one of the reasons why. i mean, i just consume all of this history. and what i'm trying to do with my work is i'm, i'm trying to like, actually immersed myself in it. you know, so like the stories that i tell, i don't want to just do it only here from my desk in new hampshire. i want to go and be part of the story to kind of like write myself into it. and so like on

everest following those guys footsteps like literally going to the same places and climbing the same rocks that they did. and i feel like it, it put me in a way, better position to tell the story. you know, the fact that i that i actually went there, and now of course i get like crazy adventure out of it too. and that's, that's actually the dirty little secret of the whole thing is like everything i'm doing, i'm just trying to go out and do cool stuff. and yeah, and have to have adventures and find, you know, that's fear it. i don't want to be i don't want to be in grammar. i don't know if this is bad etiquette that somebody inclines is. is rob hall still. i don't know. can you see rob hall or is it i hey, you know, he was a famous climber in the cracked car book and he, he's the one who calls his wife at the end on the phone. i know they leave them up there because it's death to try to bring something that way down. is he still there?

i think so. yeah, i mean what they're doing on both sides of the mountain is they they're, they're trying to remove the bodies. and there's, there's been a big push on the, on the chinese side to do this. and in the large part, what they're doing is some of the, the sherpa are trying to get them off the route like off to the side so that you so that you don't see see them because it, you know, it, it's grim. i've heard that that you can still find scott fisher, who was, you know, was also up there in 1996 and didn't make it down. there are some sort of people that are sort of famous that have become landmarks on the route . on the north side there, there was a guy that they called green boots and he's not there anymore. but he curled off and he died in this little cave. any of these bright green fluorescent,

green boots and, and, and, and they just called him green boots the, the ship of finally moved him out of the way because they, they just thought it was unseemly that one of the markers on the trail was a dead body you know, i didn't count when we, when, when we went up the, the ne ridge but one of the, the shirt by that we were with told me that he counted something like a dozen bodies or something like that. one of the, the, the bodies that we passed was a guy who had died a week before. we were there, and i, i told his story in the book. the, you, i'm sure saw the photo of the crazy congo line. 19, if i mean it went all over the world, it went viral. well, i was there on the mountain and that wasn't really what our story was about. but in full did when i was on the mountain. so i, i did

a lot of reporting on that and i, i have a hall, i have multiple chapters where it's behind the scenes about what happened in the kong delighted who the people worried and how they died. and i it, it's definitely i read this, the people will climb ever, sir, and big boy pants are big boy crampons and everybody can call their own shots in life. i look at boar keith. he was the beast up there. non assisted non oxygen. he gets killed in a car wreck to another climb happens in life and i think you should govern your own ship even if that ship that takes you up into the dead zone. and we'll talk more about that with our, our journalist, fred, national, geographic. i also want to peel back on north face. i think people always to crying corporations, but i, i think they help out in this world mark snap right after this. dennis miller plus one. ah,

yes, yes. i do me looks britzky. in fact will i? lisa typical, there is only 9, but already a university. students that away in special effects, everything you impact feedback is back on the kids to teams and you must appointment. let's see. yep, you've got the floss. there's dos padilla uh, he did respond. diane local to the snable took over, but yeah, but that's a little only thing that came up. yes. so the loss of money to somebody according to young attempts that he may come criminal recalls, he will, she has control center program, use them now. bush night nebraska, now porcelain when you're special, but i was the yeah. my is what i say the 1st way and that was think it was at the player that was to kinda push him was a new mom. she's in the some dignity of others, have to w that he was as much color. i knew it with soon, losing credibility to do to put

a good. when you most of judge, if do unclearly for his teacher was also, this is felicia calling cuz he said. 6 hey folks, welcome back to dennis miller plus one markson at is our guest today, world class climber and the new york times best selling author finds the big walls in addition to the big peaks. he specializes in remote 1st, a sense of big wall climes and has been on more than 30 climbing expeditions. he also is a contributor for nat geo, national geographic and marks latest book. the 3rd poll mystery obsession and death on mount everest is out now focuses on the 1924 cent sounds like they're right in the kill zone. that mallory and sandy is it irvine? urban, who is the cat, the sucking m,

it's in the u. k. it's irvin and he's the one who's got the camera, but he's also the one who wanders off friday as the walk about. he he's, he's the one that we were searching for. i'm, you might have heard that they found malory's remains in 1999, a friend of mine named conrad anchor. i located his body and he didn't have the camera on him. and ah, people, you know, later kind of thought, you know what, that kind of makes sense because mallory, he was, he was the leader. he was the ace of the british everest enterprise and the 912 moneys in urban was kind of his protege and kind of his you know, assistant in some ways. and so, you know, i've always thought that it would have made sense. sure urban to carry the camera so that he could photograph, you know, the main man,

that's what people would have wanted in the press. and also urban was a skilled photographer, whereas mallory wasn't so much. and so, so yeah, you kind of make sense, why no, mark, why no sharper. i'm trying to think everything is it's almost there is your to go up with a shirt, but did they not have one they did. they did have some, they did have some, some, some local people that were assisting them. they had some tibetan, they had some guys from the team and i think they had some sherpa gone, but those guys did not go with them on the summit bed and you know what? i think they knew better. they were like, you know what, this is a one way ticket and i would prefer to live so you guys can do that last part on your own. i'm trying to think i'm trying to, i think hillary treated tend to ignore gay with great respect, right. he always,

i seem to remember a great picture them at the summit together with their hand raised up linked hands . what do you know? but i know the mallory climb is the focus of the book. and once again the book is the 3rd pole. mystery obsession. in depth, i'm on average. but i think mallory is a good man and i think hillary was a good man and took care of 10. thank right. yeah. you know if i'm not mistaken, i think they did a deal. they agreed that they would some it together kind of simultaneously and then never tell anyone who actually stood on top 1st. and so i think that says a lot, you know about about that. and that, that relationship that they had and, and, and you know, can't, tenzing was the one who, who laid a lot of the groundwork for that climb. he had been up there, you know, before, and i think it's obvious that they never would have pulled that off. you know,

if they, if they didn't have him. and, and he, you know, was a hero and still as to this day and is, is so revered. you know, in that part of the world, you know, over here, you know, may, he may not be quite as well known. but i mean, he, he's like, been such an inspiration for like generations of like future, you know, nepalese and indians and other asian climber hitting and well, i'm glad to hear the ownership thing that gives me goosebumps markets about time. and you know, what's interesting is if mallory dees, the l l, his answer is yes. if hillary did that, edmund hillary with tens ignore. i love the fact that when you're right or a 29000 feet and that mallory clouds can roll in at any moment and all of a sudden you're a statue. i love the fact that he bet car but, and said i had to do this is this guy and get my karma level with the mother

mountains. i don't want, i don't want to take the local guy and hold him at arm's length. it's a very savvy move it away. yeah. yeah, no, like i said, it shows a lot about about his character. and, you know, think back to what that must have been like back then. you know, at a time where no one even knew if it was possible. yes. and to be, i mean to, to be in a place in the world where no one's ever been. that's something that's definitely been a driver for me. it's just the, you know, like the, the, the spirit of exploration and the unknown and the curiosity. but imagine if that spot is the highest point on earth. and you know, that's why i called the book the 3rd paul. because for the, for the british, that's really what it, what it was you had the north in the south tow and then you've got the highest point down there. and you know,

i think it's important for people to understand like some of the history behind it . and i go deep into that in the book. but, you know, the british laid all the groundwork for the great 1st of exploration. and that was the south pole, the north pole in the northwest passage. and you know how many of them they got 1st . all of them they got. they got beat to the northwest passage by roll amundsen from norway. then they got beat to the north call by robert period, and then they and then they got beat by amundson again on the south pole. so that, and so when they, when they, when they came out of, out of world war one, you know, in the, in the country was kind of reeling from that. they said, hey, you know what we, we need, we need something, you know, for inspiration and how about the 3rd path. and that's when they started calling it

and then sending all those expeditions, which, which i've written about, it's a really inspiring story. i think whole lesson all i can say is a lot of these guys go, but you know, they say about human kind. a lot of people live their lives in quiet desperation. a lot of these kids die doing exactly what they want to do. so whenever people go back and start doing the, the content thing that the masses do about maybe we shouldn't permit all that. for god's sakes, at some point you steer your own ship and you've got to make these calls. and i know a lot of guys go belly up, but it's their call and i for one, i don't have that in me. i've never been that drawn to stand up comedy was fearful as i wanted that yet. but when they're drawn to, i go, go, go with god, do your thing, man. and if it happens, it happens. sounds like mark senate is the leading chronicler of that sort of approach to life. now he's a contributor for the national geographic, and he's got a new book on the 3rd paul mystery obsession and death on mount everest,

enclosing what's north face to him and they push them. jefferson are helping the climbing movement around the world. aren't the 100 percent. you know, the north faced essentially invented the idea of the professional climber back in the early ninety's. they came up with this idea, hey, instead of using models and doing photo shoots, why don't we take that money? and we'll pay like the best climbers. so they can just focus on climbing anyway, and then when they go out and do crazy 1st a sense we'll send a photographer and then our advertising will be the real authentic photos of these people doing their thing out in the middle of nowhere. and i, when i was a young crime where i lived in yosemite and you know, in a cave, and we would read about this, they called the north based dream team member looking at my buddies and just saying to each other how they have few weasely way in on this deal we did

i got in there in 1996. and now it's 2021. and i'm still going those missions that you were talking about. they've supported every single one. so i mean, i couldn't have done, i couldn't have done what i've done with my life. the wasn't for the north space and i'm just one person and there's so many others out there. now there's a new generation coming up. so rather than the northwest seems like the avengers with p times. and by the way, just real quickly over the holidays. if you're in the basement working on a gift and your wife calls yup. and you run up the steps. do you get winded at all or no on the steps? no. i could go up a mountain. i live right near a big mountain called no washington. i can go up that and get when did. that's my favorite thing to do. there's nothing i want to do more than get winded. then

you're outside and you know, here i love the frank wells. what. what are you doing? the 7 some it's well i didn't even quit smoking till i got the ever. he did the 1st 6 summer. you know that grade book 7 some it's him in a cat named bass. i read it years ago and frank wells. busy hollywood player. he doesn't even give up smoking for the 1st 6 continents. it's only 20. when he gets to everest that he goes, i don't think i want to be able to do his bass look serious. i can't believe you did any of these other ones and you're still smoking cigarettes. you're saying some of them are, some of them are pretty big. there are famous stories of, of people smoking pi. oh, yeah. i mean, it's pretty hard as it is gone. listen, i'm here to meet your brother. i admire the life you've chosen for yourself when you think about you getting into that groove and 9625 years. you look like 25 years old, so it's a good life stuff for you. you're happy man, right? you live your life in full content percentage. yeah, no,

i'm so lucky. i basically turned my my passion into my vocation and everybody always said, all you don't want to do that. you're going to ruin it. well, that's not actually true, at least not my case because i ended up just getting to spend my whole life doing what i love. that of trying to make model to you now someone who kind of went after their dreams to my kids and so far so good. everybody's happy and i haven't you know, made any really bad decisions yet. so like the endless summer man just inverted the endless winter. keep on clive and jason, that peak good to meet you marking. okay, thanks you to me and dennis keep doing what you do your expiration. thank you for the mark said up dennis miller plus one. ah,

join me every thursday on the alex simon, sure. and i'll be speaking to guess in the world politics sport, business. i'm show business. i'll see you then. ah, i think we'll set it up on those particular coordinate. the liberties keith is going to push and push it. if i had a fever or somebody, somebody from a few minutes, i thought it was 3. see what i still love the sub. let me look at the paradox on the vehicle. me and been here for very few believe about what we didn't get hope. all right, so um what you, what we believe if you know what this plus our partner with you? well, thank you. bye. pupa prosper. pretty whitaker. leah from a brush up for documents that are in your booth

the in a useful meeting with a candid exchange of opinions at a critical moment. that's how the russian and u. s. foreign policy chief describe their talk in geneva, which come amid rising tension over ukraine and nato extension. we recently notified congress of our intense deliver and 17 helicopters. the white house announces its sending military helicopters to ukraine just hours after de escalation talks with russia. other nato members are also ramping up weapons supplies to kid. but it's enough to scroll through a couple of random pages to be sure. none of the provisions stand up to any critical.