influence the country's domestic and foreign policy, direct quote. well, the president had been under intense pressure since the 2020 war with asked by jump in the disputed nicola quarterback, region, a peace deal between your yvonne and back who led to months of protests in armenia and a rift within the government. all right, 4th testimonies that ruined lives next week. chronicle a timeline of torture, employed by us authorities since the 2nd world war. it's a tough watch. begins along with with

the world is driven by dreams shaped. bankers are those with sinks. we dare to ask situational forces can overwhelm, can dominate even the best of us,

ordinary people, put in a bad evil environment, can become transformed, to become part of that negative environment. and it's any of us, or in fact most of us the office of naval intelligence, it was pretty consistent, caught out front for cia, they funded much of this research. and i don't know if there was a yield that they, they produce a yield for this cruel science. i don't, i that's, it's, maybe i'm wrong. i just don't think they do it might play out spectacularly in the military. so the connections would be much further down the road. it would be particularly in the iraq war and in the setting up of get low and all of that. and by the time you get

to 2001, it's already this cultural artifact. and so it is going to be picked up by a, by any one for any purpose. mm. mm hm. kind of, people held before tunnel are not there because they stole the color. they are not common criminals in their enemy, combatants and terrorists who were b did chained for acts of war against our country. and that is why different rules have to apply and why do the continuity is extraordinary. if you look at a sketch of the cubicle and of the student volunteer and mcgill university,

and then if you look far for the 2002, when the 1st al qaeda suspects are being confined at camp x, right? at montana mulvey there and goggles gloves in here, most that look. good god. just like that. 1957 sketch in after 911. all of us working at p h r. i realized that there would very likely be a huge problem of interrogation. gone wild. meaning torture, cruel in human and degrading t treatment. the use of extreme isolation was one of

a range of techniques that were employed by officials interrogators and so forth. literally starting all the way back in 2002 for many, many days. and that is just unbelievably destructive and i was the 1st to really learn to go down there in the commission process in a 4 to 6 months period. you see a market deterioration in many respects. well, if you're a year or 2 solitary confinement, you're going to ask the defendant for the 1st time in 2 years to to, to interact with other human beings. beyond his lawyer and his jailers. it's going to be the jury that's going to decide his life. he's going to be put on the stand, and that's where he's going to speak for the 1st time to the world for 2 years. if to be shut off from the world, it's impossible who who

has been 9 years an active duty. and then i'm still in the reserves in 2011, the department of defense, as i me to assist on the team, representing allergic mohammed the the lee defendant in iowa case. what i can say is that the u. s. government has acknowledged that for the periods between 20032006, mister mohammed was held at, has certain undisclosed foreign locations, black size, otherwise known as flexes. right. it was water boarded over $183.00 times. that's correct. i can say that there is a memos between the department of justice. i various organs of the u. s. government

to include the department of fans, the central intelligence agency, as to what types of enhance interrogation techniques would be authorized for certain types of detainees to live. again, concerning an animal they moved to having psychologists do interviews with patients, discover individual flaws, individual sources of trauma and security. and then they, they also discovered because they were demanding with arabs and muslims. ah, the muslim males are uniquely upset by miti and also by female physical contact. and fear of dogs. race has always played a role in american torture. it's the american torture techniques are part of old

military punishments, punishments that were used on slaves and, and, and you might find that strange, but there was one area where slaves were never whipped, but you use clean techniques on them. so they didn't leave marks. and that was, if you're going to sell a slave, because a slave that had with marks means that they were not going to obey. and so a clean slave was so got a higher price in the cotton industry in the southern delta states of the united states depended completely on torture. over the course of, for decades human beings by using their bodies as a technological form, as a technological machine were able to multiply by 8 times the amount of cotton,

an individual person could pick in a single day. so the use of torture is absolutely tied at the very beginning ah, in these kinds of cases many people in the system for the people who are imposing these conditions, believe that ordinary punishment is too good for these people. and a lot of it is about the other dis of them religiously, ethnically, nationally, culturally, it's easier than it would be to someone from your own community to to that. so

in guantanamo being secretary defense rumsfeld appointed a commander jeffrey miller, whose job was to extract information. and jeffrey miller made up a cd or staff did. and i included a rack and are under the oh, with the permission of the commander there. general sanchez. e. then can rent training sessions for the interrogators and the staff at abu ghraib prison, or he transmitted the guantanamo techniques to the abu ghraib sta basically the restraints removed and they were told to get results. the thing that became so clear is that what united states was doing was not a secret. it was hidden in plain sight. it wasn't really until the

photographs from abu ghraib were released, which were just, you know, the tip of the iceberg of what was actually happening. that people in this country began actually talking about it what we didn't know was exactly what to do. and i had to work on it all over. yeah, i would recommend exactly the right. same course of actions that we did exactly verizon them all. not all of them i can differently whether one is 1600 of

them. we've only seen up in about 20 maybe 30 is 1600 and the the worst ones are, are the ones we haven't seen. ah so and yes they were violating a lot. i regulations and what they were doing, but the that they were operating within a system in which they were condition they were structured in order to violate

those laws when you arrived at the wave where you aware of what had happened there. oh, almost immediately after we arrived i will drive, we were briefed that there was misconduct, but we weren't given details. and the interrogators that i knew who had been there during that time didn't. they didn't talk about it. so we, we didn't know. i learned everything through the news. we understood the geneva conventions to mean that absolutely. you know, you, you, you couldn't, you couldn't harm anybody in your care that your primary responsibility was their well being rather than putting them in distress. but then we were confused, and then of course we got these memos from the justice department and from the pentagon, authorizing the use of much more harsh techniques. we started adopting

those techniques when i was stationed in mosul. among them were stress position, sleep deprivation of inducing hypothermia to stay in any way we can put them in distress using dogs. this is, this is a food so called slippery slope so that they take the gloves off policy allowed american interrogators from going from a certain list of techniques that were let's say aloud. and even those were already torture to doing extreme things, rape and sodomy in, you know, at the most extreme forms of physical and psychological brutality.

ah oh, well, it shows the wrong one. i just don't know. i mean, you world, yes, to shave out disdain, because the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. you can just torture somebody on a whim without knowing how to do it. and the reality of course, is that torture like any physical skill right?

requires training, requires practice. it requires an institutional setting, a built environment really, you need to have this institution, my space, physical space in which you can perform torture. we want, you know, we, we want to be successful. i was against the war. i'm a liberal, i didn't vote for george bush, but i wanted to do my job. well, you know, i felt like, you know, if i can be successful and get intelligence from these people, then we could in the or quickly that would be better for, for a rock better for, for us to people who are for the reason days, there's been a focus a few who have betrayed our values and so in the reputation of our country. and we have 6 or 7 investigations underway and a military justice system that has values. we know that those involve

whoever they are will be brought to justice in. i was angry at our leadership because i knew that they were prosecuting interrogators and guards, and leadership wasn't being held accountable. i i, i was disappointed myself and our behavior were there was terrible. so i was, i was, i was very angry when the, i have a great trial happened, but i, i got a call from the lawyer for chip frederick. and he asked me to act as part of the defense team. i said, well, the person that you should really talk to is, is embargo. he ran this, experimenting the 19 seventies and the situations at abu ghraib as far as i can tell, are those conditions that are also reproduced in the csm barto experiments. chip,

frederick, he's the man here. oh, he was the one who had the idea of putting electrodes on on the hood. his lawyer said, the problem now is the military want to use him in a shell trial in baghdad. in abu ghraib, not only not a single senior officer went to trial, not a single senior office. they got a recall letter of reprimand. in fact, in some cases, they even got promoted at the offices. so it's, it's the people at the top always take care of the people at the top. mm. for those individuals who were directed by the us government to, to engage in any technique that i believe would price level torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. i think they lose a little bit of themselves every time they have to commit in human act and down.

and my power is out to them as well. i, frankly, in, i don't think i noticed that until i got back. and then, you know, i tremendous guilt and i think a lot of us to lot signs that were later diagnosed as p p s. d, but i don't know. i think that they have another name for now and i figure it's called like moral moral failure. sorts of assistance is feeling that people come back with after being in war. if they feel like they think they've done things better outside of their moral compass. ah,

we're still evaluating how we're gonna approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. and i don't believe that anybody has above belong. on the other hand, i also have a belief that we need to look forward as lowe's, as possible looking backwards. ah, will look forward, backward. well, forward is going to be like backward. if you don't do something about what happened in the past, nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past. and for this, among other people, i fault. president obama, essentially he gave everybody, dick cheney donald rumsfeld, he gave them all a free pass george w bush. they're all going to be rehabilitated. they're all going to be treated as great statesman. one day, i mean, they gave president obama

a nobel prize for not being george w bush. the question of course, the world tap, dancing around or avoiding as does it work as torture work doesn't work. people that have information that are part of an underground apparatus, a chair, a certain edition at revolution or organization accomplished organization. whatever organized form of collective alan chip, i, b, they won't break now. and the people that you pick up that are innocence. yes. you tell them to pieces, you'll destroy them, you will ruin them. i think that a few of the people that passed passed through my hands as an interrogator did have intelligence. but most the vast majority of the people that i dealt with work just being picked up because they were males of military age and they were just get

swept up. and these raids, i don't think torture is always being used as a method to gain information or, or confessions. it's often just been used are out of it out of anger and fear for right after september 11th attacks, september 11th, 2001 a very well known harvard law professor islander show which came up with the ticking bond theory. and he said, so what happens, for example, if a terse, as a ticking time bomb a small nuclear bomb in times square and upon sticking,

and we only have so much time, we must torture. and then, you know, the show $24.00 of course started every segment. well, that giant clock ticking away. and it kind of gave visual reality visual imprint that resonated with this discussion of ticking time bomb in addition to the way that it framed our reception of torture. on a popular level, just among the civilians in guantanamo itself, they were getting pressure from the department of defense and they have these meetings. and in the meetings they screened the 2nd season of $24.00 and use that as a jumping off place to decide what tortures what methods they were going to propose to donald rumsfeld that they would use against the people they were holding in guantanamo. and they was very influential on the people that i worked with.

i know that some of the techniques that people wanted to use they had should they had seen on television programs. for instance, i mentioned to you are leaders wanted us to mark and mark executions. and also using electricity, and these were things that they had seen on television this. i mean, no, no one trained us on that. that wasn't, that was simply from tell we're here in the united states, we have this picture of torture as something that is done by the lonely person, the lonely hero, the man who does it more in sorrow than in anger. because he is absolutely forced to because so many lives depend on it, is willing to take the moral stain and the moral pain on him. and in order to save all these people, there is always this anxiety in american politics. which is that democracy kind of makes,

makes weaker and less capable of taking the real things that real men should be able to do. there's a very gendered, masculine este sort of notion behind this real men, torture and and, and democracy makes us sissy's lou in the middle east. we have people shopping the heads off christians. we have things that we have never seen before. i would bring back water boarding and i'd bring back a hell of a lot worse than water boarding. oh hey, if you're in your terrorism, people could be a free trial detention in m. c. c to in south for 2 years. they're going anywhere. would you say that the manhattan m. c. c? is while he done in plain sight, a black sight, an american ford?

yes. i would say it's a black side that the sense of the black sites that people are being taken out and tortured, but they're being tortured in the way that our daily lives are being managed or not managed. they're not living a day or a life. they are a, a neglected product in a warehouse where there's no maintenance, you know, i mean even as like the most it's the most sol. busy negating place i've ever bid. one of the things that we need to consider now and has become quite an issue is how many of these soldiers who used to participate in these kinds of american techniques are now policeman and immigration officers who manage mexicans and hispanics and other sorts of things in integrations. today, there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques, including freezing rooms, sleep deprivation,

all these things are now being used on, on, on immigrants and children. so this is one of the terrible things about techniques is that they circulate between war and home and whatever you do in war comes home ah, ah . ready if we keep torture clean, then we can feel that the thing that's being done to protect us isn't really so bad . we have become used to the idea that it is a legitimate moral stance that we do anything we need to in order to feel safe to feel secure. i mean a bizarre way. it's as if the government is trying to make a deal with us. you let us do whatever we want over here on the dark side and in return i promise you will never die. it's like this fake promise of immortality.

but of course what time. ready on the history of the american empire, a certain 50 years from now, historians might have to say, as french historians have set about french algeria, that something was lost in the russian branch of torture, of moral authority that made america world liter sacrificed for this, the shamira of effective interrogation. ah, [000:00:00;00] ah,

ah, what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even foundation, let it be an arms race who is on offense bearing dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, a very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with. i think we'll find out about the ski to coordinate anybody's keith to call them and push and push it. if i had a fever there, should somebody sound like a few minutes a little bit 3 to what i still love with at the. but i talked with on the back with me and been here for very if you believe about it will give you hope, all right, from what you will be with you know what this plus our partner with

you. well, thank you. bye. hipaa offer any weaker, lia, from what i show for documents that are in your bill with ah, a fear standoff unfolds in brussels as anger boiled over against kobe restrictions . and government plan was for vaccine mandate. the head of germany, navy steps down, after arguing that crimea is now a part of russia nodding that vladimir putin should be shown. respect in the west, russia, lasha zion, it's at u. s. official exam. the media for pushing fresh young,