a private arena, a wild, where a single company controls the distribution of all our daily products. and the infrastructure of our economy is loose the world, according to amazon, $100.00 mic. no, certainly no borders on this line to nationalities. and you voice as a merge, we don't have with the we don't have a vaccine. the whole world leads to take action and be ready. people are judgment, common crisis with we can do better, we should be doing better. every one is contributing each in their own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great to response has been massive. so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together

with ah, ah hello and welcome to cross doctor. all things are considered on people about exaggerated rhetoric, massive arm shipments and endless threats. this is how nato presents its vision of pan european security. meanwhile, moscow wait for the us and its allies to respond to its demands and vision for the say. the status quo is untenable. ah.

to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, philip jer. all the in personnel is a former cia counter terrorism, specials who was now executive director of the council for the national interest in raleigh. we have re, mcgovern, he's a former c, i, a analyst, and in brussels. we have here in many, well tom meant he's a ph, d and geo politics. and a lecture at leon university are telling cross up roles in effect, that means you can jump anytime you want. and i always appreciated. i've got a re 1st here. we're in raleigh. where do we stand right now? we've had 2 weeks plus of very high profile meetings. well with the us, with russia o. s. c, e nato, yet, but the whole works here. um, where are we right now? because the western media, particularly american in u. k. there are nothing less than a war path or we send the media is on a war past. the question is, what is going on behind the scenes?

now we know that love are off and, and blinking agree less than a week ago. ah, to continue to talk sion that and promised to give a written response to russian demands a russian request this week. so we're on tenterhooks with respect to that. but that's the other reality. the reason that the media doesn't write about that is twofold. one is they are under the stand it. and number 2, they want a d emphasize it in favor of all this war mongering. now i'm not, i have seen like of this weapons of mass destruction in iraq and some of the same people, david sanger over the new york times, for example, who was judy miller, was the prime culprit, or this channel about weapons of mass destruction. so the media is not yet with it, whether the me will come around and do what i think blinking and biting are trying

to do that is satisfied with the russian desire to be accepted as it equal to be taken seriously to have what the terms are spect ok respect there was the germans say that it means a lot more than just or the english thing. respect. that's what the navy commander said and got canned for this last going on. the alliance of falling boards, the germans, to all important cog of the alliance is a, the germans are making clear that they're not going to be treated like vessels anymore. if you brits want to fly arms and so you can, you better find some of the route go around, you know, go around and so, so a lot of things are happening. but hopefully by friday we will know what the u. s. written responses, the business about progress to now, you know, getting a requirement that then that's not going to happen, but that can be finished. you know, every,

every country could ask to join nato. what it takes a unanimous vote by 30 nato, but yet 30, whatever it is out. yeah. that 30 native con trish unanimous to accept now are the love the germans and are the french or anybody who's in sherry ends are definitely on. know at this for your let me, let me go to phil here. you know, fill, it seems to me that the, the, by the ministration is paid in itself into an impossible corner. i mean, this is so artificially generated here, and it's so many missteps here. lincoln is obviously out of his li biden has a hard time staying on the same page as his own administration here. i mean, it's really the, the, the, the, the responsibility now to resolve this is on the american side. but there is appeasement in the air. i mean, and then, you know, in this is, you know, and also a result of russia gate. you can't make any kind of have any kind of rational

conversation because this is the, these people are worse than hitler. i mean, they painted themselves into an impossible corner bill. well i, i agree with that and a lot less optimistic and maybe gray is over the issue of what is going on behind the scenes. i think in fact if you, if you look at the record, both the white house and blinking and the natal leadership are singing the same tone, which is essentially that it is up to natal to decide if it is going to expand, introduce further into eastern europe and this is the, i think the, the fundamental objection that people have that this is a major threat to have a hospital alliance sitting on your border sitting on your front door. and so that is the issue where we should have seen some flexibility because the other issues are negotiable. they that kind of missiles better in eastern europe. the eventual

solution for what the don bass issue is the state of georgia. but the fundamental issue of having a hostile align sitting right in front of you is not divulge. and i fear that this was a start by washington, essentially to prolong to be discussions when there was no intention whatsoever. conceding the basic point that was essential to concede. yeah, because id been talking about this for 30 years. okay. and then fight. and finally, the russian side says that there they, they have no other alternative but to, to safeguard their, their national security interest, which, which is the, it's been revealed, isn't nato, doesn't believe russia has any national security interest whatsoever. and that's why we're having this problem here. i am, let me go to up here am emanuel. the way the media's of phrased this all

constructed their narrative. it's all about ukraine, but it's not about ukraine. ukraine is a symptom to this problem here. and the further you go from the european continent, the more obvious that is and, and we have seen the, the, that the divisions grow very publicly. now within the e u and the countries that are part of nato, here they are far, they are not on the same page. salt and bird can say on speed dial, you know, we have major unity collected unity, but it's anything. but right now, again, the european union and nato. specifically, it's put itself into a real pickle because there isn't a, a unified position on this. your thoughts? yes, you are totally right. actually earn your e r. witnessing eva ward a jo, vertica fragmentation, and weaving nato on the way. it's exactly the same process. geopolitical

fragmentation. but since the beginning of the european project, also the your or the i need or configuration for fresh germany, italy as young, the founding number states where or so different under, for success here at large money became even more diverse. and are at the moment we ever may leave the country with the closest to a position of russia or, or val and not to a you don't agree totally is france because of the low a go to stick. se transit would like to engage in negotiations for new europe and security treaty, or why? because in the goal is to approach trans for its own jawbreaker margin of minute or who would like to have more and more people. i want to move balance with in europe

as well, because after germany unification and germany only thinks the european project as a sub product of the euro atlantic space. because he doesn't ever nuclear weapons. so it depends on the us for security. so france would like to not only balance the united states in, in the world is too small to do with their own, but also germany. and or this is why the franco russian or seeker is important from france east has always been in the past. but problem is a avenue in macro or try to propose or to negotiate. but v of a member states a new 20, you disagree and he does an immense 40 what he says, money as in of a position. yes. a double strategy on one side. it said economic power in the middle of europe, and it doesn't want to have this side with russia. are you once to the germany,

it wants to, to, to maintain itself, i say, or a st charge power, but economic power and, and it needs russian gas on a boat. we said, you know, leave the politics of europe to the french and leave the policy. have you heard of you, the germans, and it can kind of work. i re, i mean there, the famous phrase from the, from the cold war when it comes to europe, keep the russians out, the germans, that in the americans in as being tested right now, because the germans are saying, why should we stand down? and actually russia is part of europe, irrespective of what the blinking have to say. i mean this, this, this all this, this, this very idea is being tested now. it made it 30 years after the cold war, but i think it's a spent force boss. actually i think this is the most important development. oh, but last week now we're seeing the german high officials,

the state as to merkel stated when she was in power. i the idea of giving lisa weaponry ukraine is a 60 day. she said, i know that way, right, because i was what was going to do well, they're not gonna attack russia with them, but they will attack those russian friendly call separate tests. but really, people in the done boss who want to have a really good bit of regional autonomy. now the good news, a good note today in paris, the normal, the for our meeting to see if they can breathe a little bit more life. and so that makes records, which is obviously the way out of here. let me just ask you this one, a few things that they're filled. are all there and i have ever disagreed on. but my position on the nato broadening is it's easily finished. the us can

say, sure, are we agree? and the russians go say, everybody agrees. anybody can shake membership in nato. that's good. all right. but the nato a treaty says it requires unanimous consent all the other members and the president, i say, says was that going to happen a near term and our diplomats and here the been telling the ukrainians in 10 years it couldn't happen to so. so that's something you could finish. ok, it sounds like a big deal. everybody makes a big deal, but your confession is around what you can finish just what they're really talking about. and those are those medium and intermediate rain missiles that, that bite has already promised. get this not to install in ukraine, that's break. that's a quick. now, what the russians could our give in terms of, well, we'll probably learn this week. but fell on the i. or the past few weeks, i've used the analogy of the cuban missile crisis and me versus that. is that

a good analogy for what we're seeing right now? i think this is a metaphor. anyway. it's basically a situation where one country feels its national security is threatened by having a hostile enemy right on your border, or the case if you're just, you know, over the water. and i, so i think the, the analogy kinds of homes for how russians are perceiving threat by nato. not conceding the issue of i'm limited expansion to new york. so i think where we have that. so it bothers me most about the media hold that thought. all that we have to go to a heartbreaking up about our great, we'll continue our discussion on russia. you said stay with oh ah,

cancel down through here calling us larry over here. so your cancer, always a little nicer than this, evidence of absolute poverty dismay, are people in our city and other cities all across america are living like this, where at the original need and village that opened up in 2018 right now. there's 31 homes on the property. it's a little over 4 acres with 31 homes and the community center. unfortunately, a lot of people don't make it out of edition more homeless. this is why i'm really happy with

ah, welcome back to cross stuff. you're all things are considered on peter little. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah ok. so let's go back to philip. hello. when i entered the 1st part of the program by bringing up on the metaphor of the cuban missile crisis in reverse. and you started entering the can you add on a little bit b, helsinki, final act, which made it clear that one country cannot improve insecurity at the expense of another. i mean, this is, this is part of the dna. and originally of the western alliance of nate to what so, but now it's completely void. it's not even given credence. ok. i think that's one

of the things that i wrote fundamentally facing right now is that who is allowed security? go ahead. oh yeah. that, that is a fundamental point. somehow the russians are not allowed to have it states it. and the media to be is the major criminal. there's the western media essentially where, you know, we're seeing the situation where they're not getting down to the basic fact. the basic fact here is if you go back to the doorbell trials, an aggressive war against a country that has not actually is the ultimate war. and the united states is threatening essentially war against the country that does not threaten it in any way. and it's on behalf of another country with which it has no national interest or strategic interest, except things that are being invented are the media. i think you probably saw the

editorial she had over the weekend where she said, she's creating a false narrative, which is that the russians are in to drive the united states out of all of your this is, this is going to be, this is going to be the way to explain that there is a threat against the united states and this kind of nonsense proliferating. and unfortunately it's, it's, it's obscure the very basic fact that russia, this united states. okay, but it's not, it's not the peer a manual. what is, what is the ukraine worth to europe? i mean, what we are, we have then the french, sorry, that i sent some material and troops, maybe to romania and austonia, sending some missiles to ukraine. i mean, what, what is the strategic value of ukraine? because it seems to me, the more you invest in it, in one form or another. i know the european union a few days ago is said an emergency 8 of 1200000000 euros that will disappear. like

all the other international aid. it doesn't, it just goes away. i'm sure that it goes into a swift account in switzerland in a matter of minutes. ok, this is obvious. ok. i me ask hunter biden. he knows how it works in ukraine. so, i mean, what, what is it worth to europe and is it where is it europe's economic hell and, and prosperity worth this because the way i look at it, you know, trying to isolate russia a sanction russia, all to me the, it's the europeans is least economically, they will get the short end of the stick on this offer. ukraine. go ahead. i think cure the problem is in europe or security perception. cyber difference for the french you quinn has no value because for the french, early on, many interested in you know, a fighting again, islamist in nova,

southern africa crisis in north africa and near east. and in africa, oh, from a german point of view is sort of different because ukraine is very new to jumps of territory is say, buffer zone, i guess again. so russia and or germany as economic power. oh, would i to and not the european come on the market to wave are more, more, more room, more, more consumers, old, sure importer. you know, people from ukraine, young people, we don't, don't find a job in ukraine. they come to germany like, or are eastern european states and full back on portland, you quinn, not only a value to weaken russia, and that's why they make

a strong. i used to be united states for 2 and they would like to include, do you currently need to only do we can russia for italy or so, but they don't, they don't care about a talk about your grade, but or they would have to maintain. they are going to make links, but we've united states and russia then, i mean, maybe i should rephrase. the question is ukraine worth going to war for? maybe that's the question i'm asking. you know, nobody, nobody will go to war for ukraine bus for sure. it's only or a question of perception of security, an or so symbolic or defense of nate to the right to choose a b i. n c's. but actually the europeans does agree the bur maxima maximisation of the, of the position of united states on the british. i mean, i think it,

i think there's one word for it. it's not even english, it's a greek word. it's called hubris. ok. that's how i see it all. race it the way the media is presented. this is so in responsible. i mean, obviously we all remember the drum b to war against iraq. ok. and in there nobody's learned anything in the media from it that they should have been punished for it. but there are way new, something called finland ization. remember that or the austrian neutrality after the 2nd world war? i mean there are tools out there to do this that, and i think that that, that we do a lot of russian concerns wouldn't be exactly what they want. but that is, that is more than a half lo here. why hasn't anybody in power actually said, hey, maybe there's a 3rd way out where everybody can win because the western leads and particularly the western media doesn't believe that they have to be when are lost because russia,

russia is not legal, litany liberal, it's conservative. it doesn't, it's not part of the, the western world that's walk is them in all this easy to demonize russia. but if you from to your political, i'm a geopolitical point of view neutrality. why not re was good idea. and it has been bridget bout anatole leaving, for example, if they were inspected. former for writer for the london times, i believe, who has a very influential position. now, at that when she has 2 children, and i believe is advising people in washington who are way behind the years on these issues. what, what i'd like to just make sure i introduce here is the big factor which changed washington's view. that we better talk to the russians, we better adhere to their timeline, we better respond to their, their request, or better do this real quick. and they will, that all in a month. why?

what change between now and june, china? now, you know, why don't people get it bite and was, was very poorly advised going it to the june 16th somebody what he told the chinese, what his heart versus the look, mr. putting, you know that the, the chinese, a situation here where, you know, you have a long border with try, and they aspire to be the most mila and most powerful military, as well as i can. i'm sure you gotcha, but we understand you have very concerned. i'm pushing mr. look to of why, who should i seen this guy? and so the next several months are made very, very clear that china was the china and russia had a relationship quote, that exceeds in warmth, closeness and effectiveness and alliance. that was, i mean,

that's z and putting on the, on the zoom thing with each other, published by the, by the russians. now, if that exceeds an alliance, that's something that, but it has to take into account. so even his generals are, is admirals, don't want a 2 front war. china and russia are in effect military allies right now. and if there's trouble in europe, there's going to be trouble trying to see. and i went straight and button bright enough. i hope to realize that no time to make a little deal, at least with russia, negotiate what bothers russia most. and those are those intermediate arrangements. ballistic missiles, a finesse that they do thing and, and we'll get a more stable relationship, which is what i wanted said i wanted was fresher, even tell up. i mean, who is advising by ms. and fiona hill is a jake sullivan. is it victoria new? and, you know, feel because, you know, they're, they're scenario is it,

we have to not russia out, knock it out, and then we take on, we take on china. that is it, went to phil here on this when this child's playing this child's play. why, why is the rush in china have a close strategic relationship now? it was made in america. go ahead film. yeah, right. is absolutely right about china being a wild card. certainly been presented here. and it will certainly drive thinking among those people in the white house who are actually capable. and the problem there is that there are, there are few and far between the hatred of russia, this like a rush hour. you want to pass fraser is by parson much. we're republican senators coming out with well demands to go to war to send troops. they're right away and done. and certainly the people grab job,

the president is listening to are coming out with a lot of the same thing. so i'm not, i'm not terribly optimistic. i do not believe that anybody really wants to war there. but you know, these things happen. we remember how the 1st world war developed, how the 2nd world war developed. russia has very strong memories of, of both those experiences and the united states. there's, as never been invaded. well, not it's 916. but you know, the thing is that washington is full about advice and i think the fact that the media has been totally on board a possibility of russia for many years house. and so 2016 certainly indicates to be that, you know, the public is being misled on this. the politicians themselves are being misled on this. and there's, there's no real good advice coming out of why should my pay always not going to give you good advice or is so blanket you know what, one of the things you know,

looking at all about here, all of and remember the 19 eighties and the and the, and the fear of intermediate under killer weapons in the protest movement and all that. and then with a few few weeks ago, some republican senator, you know, it says, you know, we have to bring nukes, to bear. i mean, such grossly responsibility because, i mean russia is not as bad as bad. it's not erotic, it's lot panama. it's not renee then. and i think this is what's being forgotten. i really, truly believe that the fear of nuclear war has been forgotten and we were actually, we might be reminded of it in the most horrific way. and i obviously don't want to go there. right gentlemen, that's all the time we've had fascinating discussion. want to take my guess in cristobelle, raleigh and in brussels. and i thank you for watching the year. our next come remember? oh the

ah ah no incidents of syndrome as you mentioned before, things like difficulty concentrating, insomnia memory problems. so may be asked to be experienced by just about everyone who was ever lived in any given week. right. and so now people all over the world who are military personnel, or intelligence officers or diplomats working for the american government, are now on the lookout for these anomalous help incidents. and literally, people are getting up in the morning and squeezing and attributing it to a syndrome, i mean, because it's so bag with

2 months of the west insisting that russia is set to invade to craig tonight, nato secretary general makes it stunning. you turned admitting that military block actually has no certainty whatsoever that any such aggression will have little use for you. if it depends on the russian federation, then there will be no war. we don't want any wars, but we will also not allow our interest to be brutally trampled on and ignored a growing stand off for the west of ukraine, russia top diplomatic stress as moscow does not want conflict, but insist that security must be insured and health stuff so the u. k. government has tens of thousands.