right and die in other people's was people carol lock one and a dead soldier or dead marine shows up in this country and then we start asking ourselves, why did they die water? what were they fighting for? nobody bothers stature about that contractors. ah, joe biden plans to position american troops in eastern europe in a show of force against russia. despite nato's chief admitting, there's a quote, no certainty about whether russia would invade ukraine. used to be a pollution. if it depends on the russian federation, then there will be no war. we don't want any wars, but we will also not allow our interest to be brutally trampled on and ignored amid a growing stand off with the west over ukraine. russia's top diplomat stretches moscow does not want conflict, but in physics it's security must be insured and health staff. and

so the u. k. government has tens of thousands facing the fact if they don't get uncovered jap by next group. those are headlines for this hour and it doesn't for me, but don't worry, my colleague calibrate will be here in just under an hour's time with a full and fresh look to see whether this is our to international ah a hello and welcome to cross talk more all things considered on pete rule about exaggerated rhetoric, massive arm shipments and endless threats. this is how nato presents it's asian of pan european security. meanwhile, moscow waves the west and its allies to response to its demands and vision for the

same. the status quo is untenable. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, philip jer all the and personnel is a former cia counter terrorism specialist who is now executive director of the council for the national interest in raleigh. we have ray mcgovern, he's a pharmacy analyst, and in brussels, we have here in many, well tom and he's a ph. d in geo politics. and a lecture at leon university are telling cross roles and the fact that means you can jump any time you want. and i always appreciate it, it's got to re 1st here, re in raleigh. where do we stand right now? we've had 2 weeks plus a very high profile meetings. well with the us, with russia o. s. c, e, nato. that the whole works here. where are we right now? because the western media, particularly american in u. k,

they're on nothing less than a warpath. how do we stand? the media is on a war past. the question is, what is going on behind the scenes? now we know that love are off and blinking agreed less than a week ago to to continue to talk sion that blinked and promised to give a written response to russian demands or russian request this week. so we're on tenterhooks with respect to that. but that's the other reality. the reason that the media does have right about that is twofold. one is they are on the stand it, and number 2, they want a d emphasize it in favor of all this war mongering. now i'm not, i have seen the like of this weapons of mass destruction in iraq and some of the same people, david sanger over the new york times for campbell,

who was judy miller, was the prime culprit, or this channel about weapons of mass destruction. so the media is not with it, whether the me will come around and do what i think blinking and biting are trying to do that is satisfy the russian desire to be accepted as an equal to be taken seriously to have what the terms are. spect ok respect that was the terms say that it means a lot more than just or the english thing respect. that's what the navy commander said and got karen for this last going on. the alliance of falling for the germans to all important cog of the alliance. if the germans are making clear that they're not going to be treated like vessels anymore. if you bridge want to fly arms and so you can, you better find some of the route go around, you know, go around this and so, so a lot of things are happening. but hopefully by friday we will know what the u. s.

written responses for the business about progress to now, you know, getting a requirement that, that's not going to happen, but that can be finished. you know, every, every country can ask to join. they show what it takes. a unanimous vote by 30 nato, but yet 30, whatever it is, doubt. yeah. that 30 new to punish unanimous to accept. now are the, the germans and other french or anybody has any cherry answer? definitely. i'm no at this point, you're let me, let me go to phil here. you know, fill, it seems to me that the bike administration is paid in itself into an impossible corner. i mean, this is so artificially generated here, and it's so many missed steps here. lincoln is obviously out of his li biden, has a hard time staying on the same page as his own administration here. i mean, it's really the, the,

the responsibility now to resolve this is on the american side. but there's appeasement in the air. i mean in the nino and this is also a result of russia gay, you can't make any kind of have any kind of rational conversation because this is the, these people are worse than hitler. i mean they painted themselves into an impossible corner. bill i, i agree with that and a lot less optimistic and maybe gray is or the issue or what is going on behind the scenes. i think in fact, if you, if you look at the record on both the white house and blinking and the nato leader share are singing the same tone. which is essentially that it is up to nato to decide if it is going to expand, introduce further into eastern europe. and this is, i think, the, the fundamental objection that coating at best people have that this is a major threat to have

a hostile alliance sitting on your border sitting on your front door. and so that is a, the issue where we should have seen some flexibility because the other issues are negotiable. ah, you know, the, the kind of missiles that are in eastern europe, the eventual solution for what are the don bass issues these things are to go shall . but the fundamental issue of having a hostile alliance sitting right in front of you is not. and i figured that this was a us a stunt by washington, essentially to prolong the discussions when there was no intention whatsoever of conceding a basic point that was essential to concede. yeah, because id been talking about this for 30 years. okay. and then fight. and finally, the russian side says it is there they, they have no other alternative but to, to um, safeguard their, their national security interest, which,

which is being that it's been revealed, is that nato doesn't believe russia has any national security interest whatsoever. and that's why we're having this problem here. i am. let me go to up here im emanuel. the way the media's of phrased this all constructed their narrative. it's all about ukraine, but it's not about ukraine. ukraine is a symptom to this problem here. and the further you go from the european continent, the more obvious that is and, and we have seen the, the, that the divisions grow very publicly. now within the e u and the countries that are part of nato, here they are far, they are not on the same page. salt and bird can say on speed dial, you know, we have major unity collected unity, but it's anything. but right now, again, the european union and nato. specifically, it's put itself into a real pickle because there isn't a, a unified position on this. your thoughts? yes, you are totally right. actually are 3 are weakness. seeing eva

ward a jo, vertica fragmentation, and weaving. ne, to on the way. it's exactly the same process. geopolitical fragmentation. but since the beginning of the european project, also your or the i need or configuration for fresh germany, italy, bez young, the founding member states where or so different and do it for success here at large money became even more diverse and or at the moment re ever, bailey, the country was the closest to a position of russia or, or val and not to totally, you don't agree totally. is france because of the longest, i guess he transit who would like to engage in negotiations for new europe and security treaty or why?

because in the goal is to approach trans for its own jawbreaker margin of minute or who would like to have more and more people. i want to move balance with in europe as well, because after germany unification and germany only thinks the european project as a sub product of the euro atlantic space. because he doesn't ever nuclear weapons. so it depends on the us void security. so france would like to not only balance the united states in the world is too small to do with their own back or so germany and or this is why the franco russian or circle is important from france east has always been in the past. but problem is a menu or macro, or try to propose or to negotiate, but view of a member states a new 20. you would disagree and he does an immense 40 what he says,

money as in of a position. yes. a double strategy on one side. it said economic power in the middle of europe, and it doesn't want to have the side with russia. are you once to the germany, it wants to, to, to maintain itself. i say a san charged power, but economic power and, and it needs russian gas an impairment. i've always said, you know, leave the politics of europe to the french and leave the policy. have you heard through the germans and it can kind of work out re, i mean, they're the famous phrase from the, from the cold war when it comes to europe, keep the russians out, the germans, that in the americans in as being tested right now. because the germans are saying, why should we send down? and actually russia is part of europe, irrespective of what the blinking have to say. i mean this, this, this, all this, this off of this very idea is being tested now. it made it 30 years after the cold

war, but i think it's a spent force dos. actually, i think this is the most important development. oh, but last week i were seeing the german high officials state as to merkel stated when she was in power. the idea of giving lisa weaponry ukraine is a 60 day she said, s l o c i da. but now that way, all right, because i was what was going to do well, they're not gonna attack russia with them, but they will attack those russian friendly call, separate tests. but really, people in the doesn't boss who want to have a really good bit of regional autonomy. now the good news, a good note today is at paris. the normal, the for our meeting to see if they can breathe a little bit more life. and so that makes records, which is obviously the way out of here. let me just ask you this one,

a few things that they're filled. are all there and i have ever disagreed on. but my position on the nato broadening is it's easily finished. the us can say, sure, are we agree? and the russians can say, everybody agrees. anybody can shake membership in nato. that's good. all right. but the native trees says it requires unanimous consent all the other members and the president i states as was like, i happen a near term and our diplomats and key of the been telling the ukrainians in 10 years it couldn't happen to so. so that's something you could finish. ok, it sounds like a big deal. everybody makes a big deal, but you, confession is around what you can finish just what they're really talking about. and those are those medium and intermediate. arrayed missiles said that bite has already promised. get this not to install in ukraine. that's break. that's

a quid. now, what the russians gonna give in terms of the quo will probably learn this week. but fell on the i or the past few weeks. i've used the analogy of the cuban missile crisis and me versus that. is that a good analogy for what we're seeing right now? i think this is a metaphor anyway. it's basically a situation where one country feels its national security is threatened by having a hostile enemy right on your border, or in the case if you're just, you know, over the water. and i, so i think the, the analogy holds for how russians are perceiving. that's read by nato, not conceding issue of unlimited expansion to new york. so i think we're, we have that. i think of bothers me most about the media hold that thought. all that we have to go to a hard break enough about our break will continue our discussion on russia. b,

e u. n said stay with, oh ah, yeah, in math of correcting they're having a nervous breakdown, very public nervous breakdown as they should. things are going their way is the earth's still large enough to satisfy the ambitions of jeff bezos? you know, it's got its tentacles in so many aspects of the economy. there's nothing that amazon isn't trying to get into to step by step. the amazon empire has extended its group on the world that walks like i've been quite like it. so amazon looks like monopoly trades like a monopoly makes money like a monopoly. behaves like monopoly. amazon essentially controls the market place.

it's not really a market as a private arena allowed where a single company controls the distribution of data products and the infrastructure of our economy is loose, the wound, according to amazon. ah, welcome to cross tucker. all things are considered on pete a little. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news . ah ok. so let's go back to philip. hello. when i entered the 1st part of the program by bringing up on the metaphor of the cuban missile crisis in reverse. and you started entering the can you add on a little bit, the helsinki final act, which made it clear that one country cannot improve insecurity at the expense of another. i mean, this is, this is part of the dna. and originally of the western alliance of nato itself,

but now it's completely void. it's not even given credence. ok, i think that's one of the things that i wrote fundamentally facing right now is that who is allowed security? so head though. yeah, that, that is a fundamental point. somehow the russians are not allowed to have it in states is and the media to me is the major criminal on this, the western media essentially. right. you know, we're seeing the situation where they're not getting down to the basic fact of the basic fact here is if you go back to the nuremberg trials, an aggressive war against a country that has not threatened you actually is the ultimate war. and the united states is threatening essentially war against the country that does not threaten it in any way. and it's on behalf of another country with which it has no national interest or strategic interest except things that are being invented by

the media. i think you probably saw the editorial she had over the weekend where she said, she's creating a false narrative, which is that the russians are intending to drive the united states out of all of your this is, this is going to be, this is going to be the way to explain that there is a threat against the united states and this kind of nonsense proliferating. and unfortunately it's, it's, it's obscure. the very basic fact that russia, that's not true. united states. okay, but it's about the peer a manual. what is, what is ukraine worth to europe? i mean, what? well, you know, we have that the french sir, that i send some material and troops, maybe to romanian. austonia, sending some missiles to you grey. i mean what, what is the strategic value of ukraine?

because it seems to me, the more you invest in it, in one form or another. i know the european union a few days ago as san an emergency, 8 of 1200000000 euros that will disappear. like all the other international aid. it doesn't, it just goes away. i'm sure that it goes into a swift account in switzerland in a matter of minutes. ok, this is obvious. ok. i mean, ask hunter biden. he knows how it works in ukraine. so, i mean, what, what is it worth to europe, and is it worth, is it your, it's economic health and, and prosperity worth this because the way i look at it, you know, trying to isolate russia a sanction russia, all to me, the, it's the europeans is least economically, they will get the short end of the stick on this offer. ukraine. go ahead. i think you're the program. ease in europe or security perceptions are very different for the french. you quinn has no value. it goes for the french are

they are mainly interested in, you know, a fighting again, islamist in the southern africa crisis in north africa and near east and in africa. oh, from a german point of view is sort of a different because ukraine is very near to jumps of territory. it's a buffer zone, i guess. again. so russia and or germany as economic power. oh, would i to and not the european come on the market to wave are more, more, more room, more, more consumers, old, sure importer. you know, people from ukraine, young people, we don't, don't find a job in ukraine. they come to germany like all of our eastern european states

and full back on portland. you quinn us, only a value to weaken russia, and that's why they make a strong i used to be united states to and they would like to include you printing a 2 to only 2. we can russia for italy also, but they don't care about a talk about your grade, but or they would like to maintain. they are going to make links, but we've united states and russia then, i mean, maybe i should rephrase. the question is ukraine. we're going to war for maybe that's the question i'm asking. you know, nobody, nobody will go to war for ukraine bus for sure. it's only or a question of perception of security, an or so symbolic or defense of nate to the right to choose a b. i n c's,

but actually the europeans does agree the bur maxima maximisation of the, of the position of united states on the british. i mean, i think it, i think there's one word for it. it's not even english, it's a greek word. it's called hubris. ok, that's and how i see it all, don't race it the way the media is presented. this is so in responsible. i mean obviously we won't remember the drum b to war against iraq. ok. and in there nobody's learned anything in the media from it. and that they should have been punished for it, but they're not re new something called finland ization. remember that or the austrian neutrality after the for 2nd world war? i mean, there are tools out there to do this that, and i think that that, that we do a lot of russian concerns wouldn't be exactly what they want. but that is, that is more than a half lo here. why hasn't anybody in power actually said, hey, maybe there's a 3rd way out where everybody can win because the western leads and particularly

the western media doesn't believe that they have to be when are lost because russia, russia is not lila, neo liberal, it's conservative. it doesn't, it's not part of the the western world it's woke ism in all this easy to demonize russia. but if you from to your politic from a geo political point of view neutrality, why not re was good idea. and it has been bridget bout anatole leaving, for example, if they were inspected. former for writer for the london times, i believe, who has a very influential position. now, at that when she has 2 children, and i believe is advising people in washington who are wet behind the ears on these issues. and what, what i'd like to just make sure i introduce here is a big factor which changed washington's view. that we better talk to the russians, we better adhere to their timeline, we better respond to their,

their request. we better do this real quick and they will, that all in a month. why? what change between now and june? china? now, you know, why don't people get it bite and was, was very poorly advised going it to the june 16th some what he told the chinese what his heart versus the look, mr. putting, you know that the, the chinese, a situation here where, you know, you have a long border with try, and they aspire to be the most mila and most powerful military, as well as i can. i'm sure you got you, but we understand you have very concerned about i'm pushing much to look to of why who should i seen this guy? and so the next several months are made very, very clear that china was the china and russia had a relationship quote that exceeds in warmth,

closeness and effectiveness and alliance. that was, i mean, that's z and putting on the, on the zoom thing with each other published by the, by the russians. now, if that exceeds an alliance, that's something that bite has to take into account. so even as general service admirals don't want to 2 front war china and russia are in effect military allies right now. and if there's trouble in europe is going to be trouble with the sanction of c and i went straight and biting this is bright enough. i hope to realize that no time to make a little deal, at least with russia, negotiate what bothers russia most. and those are those intermediate arrangements, ballistic missiles, a furnace that they know thing, and it will get a more stable relationship, which is what i want to said i wanted was fresher, even tell up. i mean, who is advising by music?

fiona hill is a jake sullivan. is it victoria new and you know, because, you know, they're, they're scenario is as we have to not russia out, knock it out, and then we take on, we take on china, that is with me going to fill here on this one, this child's plane. this is child's play. why? why is russia and china have a close strategic relationship now it was made in america. go ahead film. yeah, right. is absolutely right about china being a wild card. that is something that presented here. and it will certainly drive thinking among those people in the white house who are actually capable. and the problem there is that there are, there are few and far between the hatred of russia that there's like a rush hour. you want to pass. fraser is bipartisan much. we're republican senators, coming out with well demands to go to war,

to send troops. they're right away and done certainly to people's job. the president is listening to are coming out with a lot of the same bank. so i'm not, i'm not terribly optimistic. i do not believe that anybody really wants to war there. but, you know, these things happen. we remember how the 1st world war developed, how the 2nd world war developed. russia has very strong memories, of, of both those experiences. and united states, there's never been invaded well, much, it's 916. but, you know, the thing is that i, washington is full about advice. and i think the fact that the media has been totally on board hostility to russia for many years now. since 2016 certainly indicates to be that, you know, the public is being misled on this. the politicians themselves are big. this and there isn't that there's no real good advice coming out to wash my pay. always not

going to give you good advice, a blanket. you know what? one of the things, you know, i'm looking at all of us here. all of us remember the 1980s in the, in the, in the fear of intermediate missile, a weapons in the protest movement and all that. and then with a few weeks ago, some a republican senator, you know, he says, you know, we have to bring to bear. i mean, such grossly responsibility because, i mean, russia is not happening. it's not erratic, it's not panel. it's not renewed. and i think this is what's being forgotten here. i really truly believe that the fear of a nuclear war has been forgotten. and we, unfortunately, we might be reminded of it in the most horrific way. and i obviously don't want it to go there are gentlemen, that's all the time we've got fascinating discussion. want to take my guess in personnel, raleigh and in brussels. and what are you watching us here? are you next time? remember?

oh ah ah ah ah, is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe?

isolation, whole community? are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true? wharf is great. in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, my guys are, this is the guys are report the i and math is cracking. they're having a nervous breakdown. very public nervous breakdown as they should. things are not

going their way stacey el salvador is.