in the showroom camp in british soldiers, i went in and opened fire a with lay round on on, on arm said they didn't marching. they on the at they targets were very much in the night of a boat walking. honda han, as the songs added up to her time on the steps of martin luther king iraqi had done the same in america or civil rights. and so it was a massive change and surprised to people is id were unarmed, unarmed civilians, women and children families out a demand in civil rights under campers. all right, i have for this attack to happen. i guess it was, of course i don't 2nd bloody sunday because in the 920 the buddy sunday. well, i'm british total compare in co park as to what remainder of those days. and that the, the war was still continuing a, by the british government, the british army in and during. yeah, the 1st one when churches, black,

intense fide into into a gigantic football stadium. but i mean, i'll get to the partial regiment. the 2nd verse johnson, the prime minister, has said previous me that as regards who should take responsibility for it, there would be quotes, there would be a storm of utter fury. if 4 men would charge for killings while the i r a gets away with it. when of course there are a lot of, i re, men and women should have long periods of time in jail. thousands of them and long cation english present, and irish print across words, a reporting and directly convicted in jails. some of men on by it skeptical grounds, a on force compassion and torture on all the rest of the go to legacy off the british control. and iran is so the, the fact that nobody has been held responsible for 30 sunday, whenever 14 people died running sunday, the 13 on the day on one followed after. and nobody has been found guilty of that.

it is very clear from the way to re train. you know, 1st of all, it was a told her, ours, a on and things could have been sorted. i thought i, what i was, the problem is that the british government find it difficult to convict soldiers for doing what they were sent out to do by that are to be at that time. and it's quite clear that and ration this come. iraqi foundation said, well, of course, following what is often you're in, but no, no excuse for any kind of atrocity. and you're going to have to tell me which prime ministers and tell me about the commander on the day frank kits. and he has been in cyprus in bahrain, in a number of places in kenya. famously for trying to destroy the independence movement that he's alive, we invite him on, on the show, he was commodity one parent also involved in valley murphy, 9071. when of course, frank kitchen was the architect of all of us, not only of the shoot to kill policy which was catered on buddy sunday, and by the marquee and other parts of the north brain,

which in the end of the collision, it were used to the loyalist forces in collision with the armed force of the r and your you see the character orders on the nationalist paper. so kitchen series as he put in the big if may much in the line of they strategy that's been out by the are issued regiment. the state and it is remarkable that the high he had never been held or are all c atrocities of catered on the, i'm sorry that he give. and as you say, are not only in iron but around the word where he divided and conquered, where they partitioned and where the murdered people to try and put down any objections to print in whatever content maybe. when over a 100 bullets shot in 10 minutes on buddy sunday, 50 years ago, but his grace pharmacy, i a boss general the trance that he read. frank kittens book when they're trying to counter insurgency in afghanistan and iraq. what does it make you feel that the

events in bloody sunday and somehow connected to the killing, wounding, or displacing of tens of millions of people across the middle east or west asia in the past few years? well, it, it just as colonial or on the domination that britain has try to you across the word, the empire story to mention what they stay instead of trying to hold on to as many areas untested osman, whether be based in goblins, to eat, to replace others they partition increased in order to divide and conquer. they all, whether as on the salmon island or the partition in the country after the going on the up 1920, that jackie then finish up on the c m strategy on the same idea. they that were some, say, britain has are not and learn what a one thing that has done it has continued to do. got it done at those times. i'm right to read is colonial. ours, across the word. can you understand why the british government feels of the good

friday agreement put a cotton behind all those days and the fact that any a legacy issues, if they were tried in court, might reveal that weapons were being imported from apartheid. south africa and the role of m, i 5, the building just next to the studio here. and the, the fact that the parent, the clues of behavior, according to the police ombudsman for northern ireland report, which was only released in the bus few days when they get quite clear and just go off. the british government have been involved in, in no 50 years from the early civil rights come p. m. i took part in the 1st civil rights march from california. and i was lucky if you look up a woman, one boat rental house and right to a joe, a on the british government on storm. and at that time couldn't deliver no simple demand. because to give people race or stay in the country. and they would look for jobs and stay on the work number. they had the union vote in the years to come. so

they had the whole collusion issue has been part and parcel of the british controlled island and unable to this day. and there, of course, the most recent course number's one clearly stint, that it was collusion in the borders that collusion directed by the british government collision implemented by the or u. c, u d r i. and on special branch, the importation office as african americans by british agents. i think that a tang whenever the south african regime was come to an end and were the at the british were re army, the loyalist here. i most of the martyrs that happened on time were borders k dot bay who was weapons brought in from south africa. well, i mean, it's your defense. some says the way the army is trained weight works in the way it operates, it will change significantly. what about of jeremy colbin? actually, i mean, some say that he only came within 2227 votes of becoming prime minister of this country. but of course he was very active in the our civil rights struggle. do you

believe that it's a shadow still lingers of british politics today? the politicians in parliament here cannot speak about the irish civil rights struggle for fear of security service reprisal today. yeah, i think there's also that fear within them on but i didn't know jeremy. i went on and john don and others with them. they're going to pull rosewood on the the key players at the time of the civil rights champion, and even jim gun. and he come to darian id, spoke invitation to ratify the wrongs the robin age, the way i'm whitelaw with a shag understand that pro dormant, quit, and he brought an end to storm upon stoned and no longer up armed or something assembly because they couldn't manage the at the proper control apart and, and they, if you get it the dispatcher powers actually also want to get it the, the sure to get it on the integer to internment. no ramp up to with the go ahead from the british code, introduce determine which, again,

infected winds on the national staple, and turn people who are totally innocent and who weren't involved in any whatsoever . and of course you have to remember stage one who i re in operation know ready sunday and others got out. we became recruiting agents for the ira because the, at what the british government were doing and i did. and as part of the good friday agreement in my 5 are allowed to operate freely with the b s. and i, i'm going to ask about joe biden. he's famously, some people report that his house rocks to the sound of rebel songs in the evening. sometimes obviously britain wanted prospected trade deal with united it. do you think bloody sunday as a factor in jo biden's them actions towards his day to ally britain? well i, i don't know the details. i was he and around went away. he was thinking isn't, but i know a irish american, the democratic party in particular. i've been

a key players doesn't want to keep there and bring it about the good friday agreement. and i think right, of course i, america, there is the good 12 support or the nation is cause because they know what britain infected i and over the years debating and others know that like the kennedys that actually had to, i'm away from i'm looking for walk because of the actions of the british government in those early years. so it is by important the role of the ash americans and play a plant in what a good friday agreement and in the political dimension of i keep moving things forward. and i think he has made it quite clear that if he interfere with the good for a reason that the you, when we know to agreement between britain on the market. and so that's of a strong lever against bars dunston at the present time. and it's a labor i think that might work and make sure that the carrier to control and make sure that the actually good for a agreement is our top purpose and not damaged in any way whatsoever. but whoever

the good friday agreement hasn't been fully implemented, we need to see if fully implemented. and again, no, you are talking years after the good fabian with the same and we still haven't got the full implementation other good for him. and that's up to both the british, i'm the irish goblin, to make sure as guarantors that they carry that out. because we do have the right to have built on irish unity, and that's been held back by their brand new british. i had to stand to the present time. it will give that referendum when i resumed it in for the people or not. that was one of the guarantees of the gateway agreement. it has never been adopted. frontal, i thank you. thank you. after the break and other nato nation atrocity, we speak to an expert witness in the reopening of an investigation into the alleged us back 989 jesuit priest massacre in el salvador, all the smoke and we have about to have going underground ah,

in champs all down through here in this, the larry over here. so you're camps are always a little nicer than this. this is evidence of absolute poverty, just to mayor, people in our city and other cities all across america are living like this, where at the original need and village and then opened up in 2018 right now. there's 31 homes on the property. it's a little over 4 acres with 31 homes and a community center. unfortunately, a lot of people don't make it out of edition more homelessness and i'm just really happy. it made it. her dad you with me in. ah, i look forward to talking to you all

that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is a conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence and the point obviously is to create trust rather than fear. i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with baptist cracking. they're having a nervous breakdown, a very public nervous breakdown as they should. things are not going their way.

welcome back 100 years ago today, the 2nd federation of central america comprising latin american nations. we know today formerly dissolved after an attempt to create a regional government and made increased u. s. influence in the region. one of those nations was el salvador, a country which later descended into a 12 year civil war reported the killing of $75000.00 civilians. one of the most notorious crimes during the war was the jesuit massacre of 1989. now, $33.00, as all the salvador in supreme court has ordered the case to be reopened. after an hour overturned, amnesty law prevented prosecutions. joining me now from california is a war crimes and human rights investigator of stanford university's political science and latin american studies department. professor terry lynn call. thank you so much, professor for coming on. in part, when we talked about the 50th anniversary of matthew k killing in ireland, known as bloody sunday and the attempt for justice. why is all salvador open this criminal investigation into events in 1989?

when of course, reagan stands accused of funding de facto death squads. i think reagan actually defended the you, the salvador and military, which is very important because it was the salvadoran military that started at desk was along with some civilian allies. what they used to do is take off their uniform and then go out and kill people and then put their uniform back on. and then in the case of elma, so tay, which is the worst massacre in latin american contemporary history. they had their uniforms on. now that's really important because why i opened the jazz, what case? the 1st thing to understand is that the current president has formed an alliance with the military. therefore, is the, to the extent that the jesuit case may or may not be opened, it will be opened on civilians and not on the military. that's my understanding. the civilians are a president alfredo christianity who was president of the arena party. and the

other one is it is an attorney named robert parker who was quite an enemy of the current government. so what you're seeing here is actually the political manipulation of human rights trials because the civilians will be charged. and i very much doubt we will see any salvador and military charge and if they are, they will be very low level. if this case precedes forward i own own, on whether it actually proceeds to really see the present denies the that there is anything being cooked here. you testified as an expert witness trials in spain. you expect to be an expert witness in this one. i do not, i think that the spanish have all the evidence they need. they particularly have some of the evidence that the salvadoran government needs. if they were going to proceed with this, i actually think this trial is a way to threaten leaders of the arena party who i

have particularly present in christianity. it was just revealed in the pandora papers that he has 16 offshore accounts for a lot of quite a lot of money stashed away. and i think this is actually a way to pressure the rain a party, which the bu kelly government would like to see a disappear. i should just quickly say though i express the christiane he has already denied involvement in the killing and killing the brace. the investigation, i mean i should the investigation do, have you ever felt this, it should, it should talk at fort benning in georgia, where i understand the edge killers were all trained the school of the americas. well, you can't really do that under salvador and law. are under command responsibility law, but the killing of the jesuits was ordered from the high command of the military. the high command of the military and the highest commander was president

christianity. the question is, did he order it or did the top of the military order? that's really the, the issue that was in the spanish case. he was an, an indicted co conspirator. in the spanish case. it is very clear to me, and this makes salvadoran lot different than spanish law that president christianity knew about this mask the, the massacre of the jesuit priest when it happened. and he also in, was deeply involved in the cover up. that doesn't mean that he was the person who particularly ordered that according to command responsibility law, if he knew or should have known, and failed to prevent this, or punish those who carried out the massacre. and then he is, in fact, culpable. so they are going after the civilian top commander of, of military, even though he didn't really control the military. it's well,

he denies wrong doing. and also anything from li, pandora papers indicating the alleged legalities. let's just go to l, missouri rather just very briefly tell us of the numbers killed the numbers of children killed. even britain abstained over emotion of the you in about an uncles, mrs. thatcher was a friend of general finishes. what happened in mil mazata in 1981 in 1981, the salvadoran military, i pushed large part by the united states. i went in to areas that they believed were controlled by the gorilla, and they believed that every civilian that lived in those areas by virtue of their geographic location, was a gorilla. and that was never true by the way that civilians always supported whoever occupied their territories. now what happened in on the so day, which is, as i said, the largest massacre that we know of in latin america in the contemporary period is

on the outlook hutsel battalion of the, of the salvadoran military, which was formed under, i would say u. s. toodle edge, it was not trained and in this one was not trained in the united states that came later under the jesuits. but what happened here is they invaded the town of elma, so tay, the town was peaceful. it was unarmed, the guerrillas had left the area cuz they had great deal of forewarning that this was coming. but in the town of elm, so they, there was a story that the people in elma so day as the largest town would be safe. so lots of people fled into elma, so too much more than the actual population of the city of the vill. it's a little village. and there were about a 1000 people who fled there for safety from the salvador and military. when they got there, the military came in, it had everybody, almost

a 1000 people lie down on that they could, everybody, they could find. they pulled him out of their houses. they had them lie down in the plaza and then very strangely, this is never happened before. they let them go back to their homes. that night. it was very clear. they were waiting orders because there were more people in the town . they expected. the orders came the next morning, they pulled everybody out again. at dawn, they separated the men, women, and children. it took the men away 1st. they told the women that they were taking the men to for safety and they killed every one of them. then they kill the women and then they killed the children. the numbers that we work with are approximately 1000 people, of which 553 are under the age of 12 or are very young use. so more than half were children. if you see if you go to elma, so tay,

what you see that we have tried to do is list the names of the children and the very 1st forensic digs which happened during the peace agreements in 1092. or there was only enough money to take up that $1.00 of the sites where a $124.00 children and all of these were babies. they were very young or dug up. and i had the sentences of rape reported and of, and the children being hang, do you know where we've had to form a national security adviser on this show? we had right, elliot abrams on he was assistant secretary state at the time and he is subsequently been the special representative of the united states to iran and to venezuela, of course, many allegations about us policy and venezuela. in recent times, he says that the actually, the numbers do not tally at all of the for

a start the u. s. military, people like general galvin later nato commander 7th, wanda, would never counter torture. this is more generally there. and as for l mazata, there weren't nearly that number of people. there were only 200 or 300 people though. well, he's using a line of defense minister garcia, who said he has said many things. first. he and elliot abrams and the u. s. government denied that any massacre occurred. the reason we had the 1992 forensic dig, was because from 1981 to 1992, they denied that there was any massacre. when we dug up the bodies and you could see the bodies of the children were shot, most of them, some were beheaded in the soccer field and they were buried in a place that we knew of. so the very 1st forensic digs were, digs were bodies of children. it was clear they were all massacred, it was clear,

they were massacred by bullets that had come from missouri in the united states. so the weapons were provided by the united states. those who killed him were the out in the capitol. there is no doubt of us this. there can be no doubt about this. and one of the things that has been very important in these years from 1990 to the dig all the way through the trial that was just cancelled in el salvador or stopped in el salvador is that you can, i'm no longer deny this massacre. you cannot deny the numbers. we have the names, we can list the people we have are slowly identifying through dna, the identities of many of the children so that there's very small caskets can be given back to their surviving family members. so, you know, to say that this is exaggerated, it didn't happen that the victims are lying. this was a gorilla plot. some of the,

a salvador and military says that this was a cemetery of the gorillas. none of that is borne out by all the evidence we have and we have a lot of evidence say, okay, well reagan's assistant secretary said thomas and said no evidence to confirm government voices actually systematically, most good civilians me later. i like want to say that he later wrote an op ed and apologize for that in the new york times, i believe, which goes along with what i'm saying about the denials. but he later apologized. he said there was a massacre. he was sorry, he denied it. he had been given this information and he was sorry, he had testified in the us congress in the way he had. so just to let you know that some of these people have changed their minds. what about what a bronze? because i did notice, i mean, you're on a command, you're the committee of the national endowment for democracy, which we talk about this program a lot as a kind of vanguard to re, of, and god,

perhaps, of regime change in different countries. so the elliot abrams tell me about how you do what you do, knowing that there are forces that still one to oppose your view. that what was done was wrong given the abraham pseudo in the night, he said, what went on, do you think our level of military aid was worth it? he said yes. knowing the thousands of people the dud course, he says yes. and he says yes, because u. s. policy at the time under him was the arming. and so, salvador and military and this is a military that we knew was killing thousands and thousands and thousands of civilians. what is so shocking about the on the south a massacre is the children. i mean, not, it's not a shocking massacre. i've documented 53. we're all massacres in all salvador and that's, that's only a partial number. he's our big, massive purse. they're in the rural areas where they're very hard to document

because if you don't take out bodies, if you don't go to the rural areas, which was extremely dangerous when we were going there. because that's where all the kid, not all, but that's where a lot of the killing was. if you look back at the news, then people covered mostly urban killings and desk. what killings? but what was happening at the same time? and elliot abrams was fully aware of this. he's just not telling the truth, and i want to say something about him. he was indicted and convicted of perjury. so the fact that the another administration brought him back and tried to rehabilitate him. he did line a congress, he was convicted of that and he may be in the national endowment of democracy, but i am not if there my name is listed there, that's an error i. i was surprised to verify that i never knew that. so thank you for that. know what i have been on is the board of the journal of democracy and that is financed by the national endowment of democracy that i

have never believed in my entire career that democracy was like, well, and it could be exported. and my, one of my favor lines in the iraq or was one of the iraq ministers who said, if you think we produce carrots, do you think we would be invaded? so there is a difference in a scholarly difference. if i can put it that way between who funds you and the kinds of academic freedom we are supposed to have in the journal, professor dairyland go, thank you. that's over the show will be back on monday when we talk political corruption power to the people in corporate espionage would u. s. presidential contender, dennis could senate your accounts, attempts to kill him and his new book, the division of life about until then keep in touch, why will a social media and let us know if you think states should be held accountable for military killings of civilians.

with is the earth still large enough to satisfy the ambitions of jeff bezos? you know, it's got its tentacles in so many aspects of the economy. there's nothing that amazon isn't trying to get into to step by step. the amazon empire has extended its group on the world that walks like a dog in quacks like a dog gets a dog. so amazon looks like monopoly trades like a monopoly makes money like monopoly behaves like monopoly. amazon essentially controls the market play. it's not really a market as a private arena, a world where a single company controls the distribution of all day, the products and the infrastructure of our economy. is this the world according to amazon? ah, those incidents of havana syndrome, as you mentioned before,

things like difficulty concentrated insomnia memory problems there. so vague, asked to be experienced by just about everyone who was ever lived in any given week . right. and so now people all over the world who are military personnel, or intelligence officers or diplomats working for the american government, are now on the lookout for these anomalous help incidence. and literally people are getting up in the morning and squeezing and attributing it to a syndrome. i mean, because it's so bad. ah, join me every 1st day on the alex salmon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess when the world politics spoke. business. i'm show business. i'll see you then.

ah, tonight president bud and plans to position u. s. troops in eastern europe and a show of force against russia. despite nato's chief admitting, there's no certainty about whether moscow would invade ukraine. make time germany swims against the nato tide by resisting sending arms to you. craig move, it's got the backing of the chairman public according to recent polls away from all that. canada's prime minister, bronze, a huge truck, a convoy opposing the vaccine mandate, does extremists, despite the growing dr. is movement the thousands now spreading through the capitol all to a live from all over. good evening for me, kevin. oh and welcome to our internationals world. news at 11 1st inside president biden's place to send more us troops.