the rise of capitalism is clearly on the back of flight. emily laid down if you had investigated lynching any great extent you believe in your country. and the country still stands in brick. i'm from the south. everybody know, know what they're saying. to some extent, i would argue that we're still fighting the civil war and the south is winning in is the earth still large enough to satisfy the ambitions of jeff bezos? you know, it's got its tentacles in so many aspects of the economy. there's nothing that amazon isn't trying to get into to step by step. the amazon empire has extended its group on the world that walks like a dog inquired like a dog k as in dog. so amazon looks like monopoly trades like a monopoly makes money like a monopoly behaves like monopoly. amazon essentially controls the market place.

it's not really a market, it's a private arena, a wild where a single company controls the distribution of all day. the products and the infrastructure of our economy is loose, the willows, according to amazon. ah with . mm hm. hello, welcome to wells fargo, describing diseases to the evil doing of anatomy is an old human habit that can be traced in many historic and justices from that which croc trials to call upon. one would think that in this age of science and rationality,

to move beyond ruling recrimination at least at the state level, but not so fast. take the so called havana syndrome and mysterious condition set to be afflicting that american diplomatic and military personnel abroad. it's barely diagnosed with whiteness. seem to be an act of aggression. what is it symptomatic? well, to discuss that i'm not joined by rovers by filling me on the really senior last year in the department of psychological medicine at the university of hoffman. and also have an ascension math psychogenic, illness, the real story behind the embassy mystery, and hysteria. dr. marcella, me, it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. it's been more than 300 years since the salem witch trials, which are now considered to be one of the most notorious cases of by massy syria in colonial america. and what's striking to me about it is how similar the per,

per to symptoms back than worth to be described. manifestations of the so called cabinet syndrome, headaches, loss of balance and hearing, piercing, sensations, disorientation compromise, mental ability, do you see anything in common there? absolutely. and you know, when i think of this case, what i think of is shakespeare in a midsummer night's dream. and there's a quotation from that that goes like this, or in the night. imagining some fear. how easy is a bush, supposedly a bear? and in this case, we are literally talking about the russian bear and look, i can summarize this entire episode in a single sentence, and it goes like this. it comes from an old medical outage. when you hear the sound of speech in the night 1st, thank horses, not zebra, it's the doctors at the state department went for the most exotic hypothesis early

on, and people keep attacking me. and they say, you don't know what you're talking about. concussion like symptoms, white matter track changes, hearing loss, brain damage. that's not bast psychogenic illness. but that's just not true. if you look at the 2018 journal of the american medical association study, even before that study was published, information was being leaked to the press that many of the victims had these mysterious white matter track changes in their brains. about a year later, when the study finally came out, they found only 3 patients with white matter track change. it's if you go on the streets of moscow today, and you randomly pick 21 people, you have a similar breakdown because white matter track changes are common and everything from depression to migraine headaches,

to normal aging status professor sell me. i think it's easy to understand the balance is easy to understand how something like this could have happened in the late 17th century, in rural massachusetts and in the 21st century in havana. as well as frankly all over the place because american diplomats in russia, china yet not india, austria astronomy at the united kingdom and host of other countries have filed several 100 similar complaints. one who possibly explain both a global scale of the problem and it's very young, they're select 50, it's a distinct bias for the americans. sure. look, are we to believe that the russians have develop some kind of secret microwave or sonic device and are going down to columbia and targeting

a home of one of the diplomats to make their family members sick? i mean, it's really absurd when you think about this. and what's happened here is people are getting confused because you got 2 different phenomenon going on. you've got the initial case of what happened in cuba, which is a classic textbook case of mass psychogenic illness. and then you've got what's going on around the world which is slightly different. one is mass psychogenic illness and the other is more mass suggestion because what happened is after the initial report of what happened in cuba, the state department issued an alert to its diplomats and intelligence officers around the world to be on the lookout for anomalous health incidence and then the department of defense recently contacted all of its $2900000.00 service personnel and contractors to also be on the alert for anomalous health incidents

and those incidents of havana syndrome. as you mentioned before, things like difficulty concentrating, insomnia memory problems. they're so big as to be experienced by just about everyone who has ever lived in any given week. right. and so now people all over the world who are military personnel or intelligence officers are gentler match working for the american government are now on the lookout for these anomalous health incidents. and literally people are getting up in the morning and sneezing and attributing it to a van a syndrome. i mean, because it's so bag. now, even if it's, even if it's the case of mass hysteria, i think it definitely deserves to be dealt with. and people may me for professional health, but i would guess that it's efficiency would depend on what you stipulate or hypothesize to be the main cause and how close it is to reality. you have worked on this case

for quite some time on. i confident that the american officials at this point can afford to pursue science with an open mind and the best interests of the victims at har. absolutely not, because what you've got here is a case of science mixing with politics. let me give you an example. recently, senator mark or rubio came out and said anybody who advocates the mass psychogenic illness, explanation it's quackery. and what's really disingenuous, they're in really upsetting for someone like myself who has advocated that is there are 2 sick work reports, classified reports that came out. one was in 2018, the secret jason group, which is a group of

a lead us scientists who looked at microwave radiation. and the most likely explanation in that report was only released recently under the freedom of information act. and they concluded that best psychogenic illness played a major role, and it was virtually impossible to be microwaves. the other classified report was that done by the f b i. it's never been released, but it was recently leaked, and their conclusion was, it wasn't microwaves. it was mass psychogenic, illness, and people like marco rubio would have known full well. but these 2 classified reports were there. they would have been familiar with the contents. and at the same time that they knew those reports were there. many officials in the u. s. government have been peddling the microwave free effect claim and that it's not mass psychogenic illness, which is just very disingenuous on their part. now,

while the psycho janet origins hypothesis is being discouraged, as you say, the media is right for speculation that it was indeed an act of aggression by the russians. so i saw that the washington post reported recently that they had of the c i a william burns mentioned that this issue raised this issue during the talks with his russian colleagues here in moscow and reported me even threatened some state to state action into americans for one reason or another, conclude that it was indeed the work of the russians. she's that even more frightening than the n s. i could, jenny gong, mot massey, syria hypothesis, even the military potential on both sides. absolutely. and it's very, very concerning. i mean, if you look at the national academy of sciences report, which came out and december of 2020, you would expect that to be a dispassionate scientific analysis. if you look at the people on that panel,

they had no experts on mass cycle genic illness and they had no experts on pulse microwave radiation, which were the 2 main explanations that they were looking at. a friend of mine, simon wesley, at kings college, london, was initially on that panel. he's a world authority, a mass like genic illness. he gave an interview in which you stated that he thought it was possible that math cycle genic illness could explain what was going on based on what he had seen. after that, they kicked him off the panel. so what you're seeing here is a mixture of science and politics. the other thing that's interesting is pamela spry, one, the former ambassador to a couple of different countries was name by joe biden. as the head of the panel investigating a van, a center on the u. s. government. and recently she was on a zone call with several of anna syndrome patients. and one of them asked her,

they said, what about the f. b, i report which was leaked and they said it was mass hysteria. you don't believe that, do you? and she said, well, i'm holding open the possibility of mass psychogenic illness. right after that, there was an outcry in she was forced to step down and people were saying things like, we're not crazy. you know, we're not mentally ill, but that's not what math cycle genic illnesses, math, psycho genic illness doesn't mean that you're crazy. it is a collective stress response based on a belief, and everyone has beliefs and everyone is potentially susceptible. but professor sell me, that's what your book is. so how to because you mentioned several in fact several doesn't examples. so there is psychogenic illnesses and some of them rise sporadically, but in most cases there are some preceding conditions that will benefit that certain hi, he's and band this case is usually used by

a certain political motivations. if that's indeed the case with has on ascension, that is being handled both scientifically and administratively with a certain political agenda in mind. my question is, what would possibly be gained from handling it this way? because i simply don't see how the biden administration could benefit from, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of that diplomatic personnel coming out with some strange symptoms . asking for compensation, let alone raising tensions with another nuclear power. you mentioned important work, their compensation because lawyers have now become involved and you're going to see tens of thousands of cases all over the world now. and american service personnel wanting to be potentially compensated. you know, that's a very important aspect to

a van, a syndrome now, because the symptoms are so vague and they are found all over the place. you know, there's an interesting case that happened in 1954 in the united states in the pacific northwest, where the u. s. was doing testing of the atomic bomb in the pacific ocean. and a rumor started that fallout was coming down on the pacific northwest, particularly in the region of seattle, washington, and people started to see these pit marks on their when strange. and it became so concerning that the governor of washington state owned president eisen power and ask for assistance and an investigation was conducted. and the researchers concluded that people started looking at their wind screens instead of through their wind screens as they normally do. and there's

a similar parallel here with her van syndrome because people have anomalous health issues all the time. but now, anytime a diplomat or an american service personnel has some type of help incident, it's automatically looked at in a new frame. that this may be a syndrome and you know, the other reason why i think this is so much a political issue is the word and the word here is embarrassing. that thing that the u. s. government, under trunk, and now buying have miss identified the mating calls of crickets and sa cadence, because that's what actually happened when they looked at these recordings that people were my boss and now they huge potential cost john pack. let's take

a very short break right now. but we will begin right on that after short breaks they can, ah ah, and there is a chance all down through here name pauleen is the larry over here. so you're camps are always a little nicer than this. this is evidence of absolute poverty, despair. people in our city and other cities all across america are living like this, where at the original need and village, and then opened up in 2018 right now. there's 31 homes on the property. it's a little over 4 acres with 31 homes and a community center. unfortunately, a lot of people don't make it out of edition more homelessness, like,

i'm just really happy with it. oh, there you with . mm hm. welcome back to wells of course westbury for home. you also have honest and jumped mass psychogenic, illness and story behind the i'm the semester and hysteria, professor for selling me. you mentioned the making a potential hypothesis i think was initially suggested by the

by the cubans. and while it sounds a lot of people, and it's funny i, you know, the, the issue i have with it is that if you go back to those initial i cases that they call case i originated that the low level a, c i, a officials and have on them, but they were supposedly affected, not that the embassy compound, but rather too large hotels. and i think in residential building or something where people of other nationalities are also present. if that was indeed the evil doing of the caught us or the natural behavior when they're foreigners be affected as well. you know, in cases of vast psychogenic illness, it's important to understand the historical. busy context in november of 2016, the c i, a officers walking near their homes and havana and hearing the strange sounds and they weren't sure what to make of them. and they said that it was almost like

a beam of sound being pointed at their homes. and in late december of 20161 of them had your pain and headache. and he went to the embassy clinic, which is very common symptoms. and afterwards he made it unusual comment. he said, you know, it's almost like someone is pointing a beam of sound at my home at night. and they didn't think too much of that. but then a couple of other officers mentioned the same thing. and then this theory developed that the russians, or maybe the chinese were pointing some new acoustical device at the americans as a form of harassment. and what's really interesting here is when more recently you've had plains of microwave radiation and the fray effect. it's not the fray effect. we know that now, because in 2018,

a top secret classified report of a lead scientist called the jason group, looked at the possibility of the fray effect. and these scientists eliminated the fray effect because what, what happened was, of the 1st 21 victims. 8 of them reported their attack. now, is it's microwaves. you can't record the microwave because they're not a sound. the microwaves bombard your head in, stimulate a nerve in your ear or brain. there's a debate as to which one it is. and you get the perception of a barely discernable clicking cell. but e a, that's right. and when they looked at the recordings of those 8 recordings, they concluded that there were the maiden calls of the, in these short tail cricket. and some other recordings that were done turned out to

appear to be assessed as cicadas. so it's just not possible. i mentioned the salem witch trials before, and many historians noted that salem village was known for its world such as fascists, population. there were many arguments of our property and raising right as well as over value. it was a highly puritan and dandy, a righteous society. now, given the level of political polarization in the united states, especially pulling the election of donald trump when some of those 1st reports of be honest. and john occurs, do you think it may have been a factor in the emergence of base here? well, this is a case of bad journalism, bad government and bad science. there really should be an investigation of the

journal of the american medical association and how they ever published the 2 studies they did. my 1st career was as a journalist about 40 years ago in the united states. and, you know, one journalist look into stories like this. you can't be an expert on everything, acoustical weapons, or microwaves or all this other stuff. so you have to rely on experts. but in this case, the experts at the journal of the american medical association have really let us down. i don't know how those studies were ever published in the 1st books. well, you would be blame on one journal, but you know, as a, as a journalist who has been covering american politics over the last 5 years. and, you know, look at the case of this whole, russian gave down the narrative that it was essentially the crime linda has install of donald trump in the white house. and, you know, whatever was the level of russian interference in the american elections,

it definitely wouldn't have raised to the level of, you know, electing a president for a country more than 300000000 in the. it's pretty much every american major, mainstream american outlet run with this story saw. and by the way, it was also a big democrat. the democrats were made a conscious decision to portray tromp as a russian agent. they knew it wasn't the case. we know that from the weekend, but they made a conscious public relations decision as a way of, you know, destroying his image. i, one day the by the administration is dealing what essentially it's saw, it's on and it's a fairly light case. at this point. a big issue that's going on right now, it's very frustrating to me as so many news organizations in so many leaks of officials and in american government keep pushing this idea that the diplomats in

cuba had brain damage. if you can show me that they had brain damage, i'll resign my position in the department of psychological benson often. university . this absolutely unequivocally, not the case. what happened was in 2019, the journal of the american medical association publish the study, which looked at the small cohort of patients in cuba. and they found brain anomalies. brain anomalies are not the same as brain damage. it's very common in small groups. when you look at brain scans to find vine or anomalies, and these anomalies were very minor and they have conflated anomalies with brain damage. it is not been found whatsoever that there was brain damage in the action. cuba but it keeps getting reported over and over again . you so diplomatically avoided my direct question about the manipulation of,

of the narrative. i'm the, that's your ride, but i want you to, i can rephrase my question a little bit because i think the level of psychological flores ation in the united states is verifying this. this is what allows for psychogenic infections to originate. and brad, very rapidly, would you foresee another cases slide about chart curve, for example. nonsense, very seducing. is it sad by the similar psychic energy? do you think they may be other cases when people will be easily led to believe that somebody is out there trying to break them or cost them damage? yet? look, it's very concerning what's going on with the american government in with the american media and how they have handled this case. and the situation is right

for an incubation of further cases like this. you know, at some point you have to listen to science and the scientists, and that's not the case here. the national academy of sciences, the senate foreign relations committee, they interviewed mostly believers. where are the skeptics? the national academy of sciences didn't interview many of the skeptics, the prominent skeptics who have been speaking on this case and the same with the senate foreign relations committee. and those, this misunderstanding out here, that mass psycho genic illness is somehow some kind of mental disorder or recalling people crazy. it is absolutely not the case. and people, i would assume i need somehow dealing with that because after all are being posted somewhere, overseas is indeed a stressful job. and maybe if people are so susceptible to those theories,

maybe they need help. now i have time for just one question and i want to ask you about the media because i know that before your single out the media as a, as a main driver and amplifier of the psychogenic illnesses. and it's very interesting that they, the point that you made, that people are now working on line that now using social media and media to relieve that psychic stress the way they used to go, for example, to the church, but instead of being discharged, the stress is being collectively accumulated, it's sort of, you know, continuous that it's infectious power. so can you talk more about that? what would possibly be done to prevent this isolated case of psychogenic illness from spreading all around the globe among let's say, one countries, diplomatic personnel or even bigger groups. yeah, well, there's a danger here for the future. and we have to get our house in order in the united

states army, us citizen, i'm a new zealand. simpson. and it's really embarrassing to me when you have such partisanship out there and now on both sides coming together on this. and they have not looked at the science and they haven't listened to the mainstream scientist. i'm not a rogue scientist on a straight down the line mainstream scientists in those studies in the journal, the american medical association, any neurologist or medical doctor worth their salt, takes the time to examine those studies. those studies are very flawed, and we need to listen to mainstream science. but unfortunately, the waters have been muddy bipartisan politics and it's destroying the united states of america. and we've saw the last few years, and it's very concerning. it's very alarming. and it's, it's disturbing. well,

let's hope that somebody will take a lesson or 2 from a very interesting and yet funny. although, as we discussed before, it would be pretty dangerous given that this issue is now being discussed. it's been the military intelligence of rush in the united states. but all the nuclear capabilities that they have anyway, professor told me we have to live in there. thank you very much for being with us. thank you. and thank you for watching hope to see you again next week and will depart, ah ah,

[000:00:00;00] with you as president biden plans to position american troops in eastern europe in a show of force against russia, despite nato's chief admitted, there is no certain team about whether moscow would invade ukraine. meanwhile, germany swims against the nato tide by resisting sending arms to ukraine's move. that's got the backing of the german public. according to recent polls and candidates prime minister brands, the huge truck convoy opposing the vacuum mandate as extremely, despite the growing drivers movement of 1000. it's now spreading through the

capital ottawa with those your headlines at this hour. and it does it for me,