ah, welcome to wells fargo, ascribing diseases to the evil doing of anatomy is an old human habit that can be traced in many historic injustices from the witchcraft trials to call upon one would think that in this age of science and rationality would have moved beyond costing unproven recrimination, at least at the state level, but not so fast. take the social havana syndrome and mysterious condition set to be afflicting that american diplomatic and military personnel abroad. it's barely diagnosed and yet whiteness seem to be an act of aggression. what is it symptomatic off? well to discuss that i'm not joined by rovers by filling me on there. we see a lot. you're in the department of psychological medicine at the university of hoffman and also have an ascension math psychogenic, illness. the real story behind the embassy mystery and hysteria. dr. marcella, me it's great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. it's

been more than 300 years since the salem witch trials, which are now considered to be one of the most notorious cases of bi massey in colonial america. and i was tracking to me about it is how similar the per perfect symptoms back than worth tv described, manifestations of the so called havana syndrome, headaches, loss of balance and hearing, piercing, sensations, disorientation compromise, mental ability, do you see anything in common there? absolutely, and you know, when i think of this case, what i think of is shakespeare in a midsummer night's dream, and there's a quotation from that that goes like this, or in the night. imagining some fear. how easy is a bush? suppose it a bear, in this case, we are literally talking about the russian bear. and look,

i can summarize this entire episode in a single sentence, and it goes like this. it comes from an old medical outage. when you hear the sound of speech in the night 1st thank horses, not zebras. the doctors at the state department went for the most exotic i pompous is early on, and people keep attacking me and they say, you don't know what you're talking about. concussion like symptoms, white matter track changes. hearing loss, brain damage, that's not bad psychogenic illness. but that's just not true. if you look at the 2018 journal of the american medical association study, even before that study was published, information was being leaked to the press that many of the victims had these mysterious white matter track changes in their brains. about a year later, when the study finally came out,

they found only 3 patients with white matter track change. it's if you go on the streets of moscow today, and you randomly pick 21 people, you have a similar breakdown because white matter track changes are common and everything from depression to migraine headaches, to normal aging star professor sell me. i think it's easy to understand the relatively easy to understand how something like this could have happened in the late 17th century in rural massachusetts and in the 21st century in havana. as well as frankly all over the place. because american diplomats in russia, china, yes not india, austria, astronomy at the united kingdom and host of other countries have filed several 100 similar complaints. one could possibly explain both and global scale of the problem and it's very young there. so look, city, it's

a distinct bias for the americans. sure. look. are we to believe that the russians have developed some kind of secret microwave or sonic device and are going down to columbia and targeting a home of one of the diplomats to make their family members sick? i mean, it's really absurd when you think about this. and what's happened here is people are getting confused because you've got 2 different phenomenon going on. you've got the initial case of what happened in cuba, which is a classic textbook case of mass psychogenic illness. and then you've got what's going on around the world, which is slightly different. what is mass psychogenic illness? and the other is more mass suggestion, because what happened is after the initial report of what happened in cuba, the state department issued an alert to diplomats and intelligence officers

around the world to be on the lookout for anomalous health incidence. and then the department of defense recently contacted all of its $2900000.00 service personnel and contractors to also be on the alert for anomalous health incidence in those incidents of havana syndrome. as you mentioned before, things like difficulty concentrating, insomnia memory problems. they're so big as to be experienced by just about everyone who was ever lived in any given week. right. and so now people all over the world who are military personnel, or intelligence officers or diplomats working for the american government, are now on the lookout for these anomalous health incidents. and literally, people are getting up in the morning and sneezing and attributing it to a van a syndrome a mean because it's so vague. now, even if it's, even if it's

a case of mass hysteria, i think it definitely deserves to be dealt with. and people may me professional how, but i would guess that it's efficiency would depend on what you stipulate or hypothesize to be the main cause and how close it is to reality. you have worked on this case for quite some time on i confident then that american officials at this point can afford to persist science with an open mind and the best interests of the victims at har. absolutely. notch because what you've got here is a case of science mixing with politics. let me give you an example. recently senator mark or rubio came out and said anybody who advocates the mass psychogenic illness, explanation it's quackery. and what's really disingenuous,

they're in really upsetting for someone like myself who has advocated that is there are 2 sick work reports, classified reports that came out. one was in 2018, the secret jason group, which is a group of a lead us scientist who looked at microwave radiation and the most likely explanation. that report was only released recently under the freedom of information act. and they concluded that mass psycho genic illness played a major role in it was virtually impossible to be microwaves. the other classified report was that done by the f b i it's never been released, but it was recently leaked and their conclusion was it wasn't microwaves. it was mast psychogenic illness, and people like marco rubio would have known full well, these 2 classified reports were there. they would have been familiar with the

contents. and at the same time that they knew those reports were there. many officials in the u. s. government have been peddling the microwave free effect claim and that it's not vast psycho genic illness which is just very disingenuous on their part. now why would be like a german origins, high profit, this is being discouraged, as you say, the media is rise, respect elation that it was indeed an act to progression by the russian. so i'm, i saw that the washington post reported written to me that they had a, b, c. i a william burton mentioned this issue raised this issue during the talks with his russian colleagues here in moscow. i reported me even threatened some state to state action in americans for one reason or another, conclude that it was indeed the work of the russians does even more frightening than any psychogenic or mach matthew theory. hypatia has given the asco

a tory potential on both sides. absolutely, and it's very, very concerning. i mean, if you look at the national academy of sciences report which came out and december of 2020, you would expect that to be a dispassionate scientific analysis. if you look at the people on that panel, they had no experts on mass cycle genic illness and they had no experts on pulse microwave radiation, which were the 2 main explanations that they were looking at. a friend of mine, simon wesley, at kings college, london, was initially on that panel. he's a world authority, a mass like genic illness. he gave an interview in which he stated that he thought it was possible that math cycle genic illness could explain what was going on based on what he had seen. after that, they kicked him off the panel. so what you're seeing here is a mixture of science and politics. the other thing that's interesting is pamela.

spry, one, the former ambassador to a couple of different countries was named by joe biden. as the head of the panel investigating a van, a syndrome for the u. s government. and recently she was on a zone call with several of an a syndrome patients. and one of them asked her, they said, oh, what about the f b i report which was leaked and they said it was mass hysteria. you don't believe that. do you and she said, well, i'm holding open the possibility of mass psychogenic illness. right after that, there was an outcry in she was forced to step down and people were saying things like, we're not crazy. you know, we're not mentally ill, but that's not what math cycle genic illnesses, math, psycho genic illness doesn't mean that you're crazy. it is a collective stress response based on a belief. and everyone has beliefs and everyone is potentially susceptible. but professor sell me. that's what my book and so how to because you mentioned several

in fact several doesn't examples of their psychogenic illnesses and some of them rise sporadically. but in most cases, there are some preceding conditions that will benefit as certain he's and band based case is usually used by a certain political motivations. if that's indeed the case with has on ascension, that is being handled both scientifically and administratively with a certain political agenda in mind. my question is, what would possibly be gained from handling it this way? because i simply don't see having biden administration could benefit from, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of that diplomatic personnel coming out with some strange symptoms . asking for compensation, let alone are raising tensions with another nuclear power. you mentioned the

important work, their compensation because lawyers have now become involved and you're going to see tens of thousands of cases all over the world now. and american service personnel wanting to be potentially compensated. you know, that's a very important aspect to a van, a syndrome now, because the symptoms are so vague and they are found all over the place. you know, there's an interesting case that happened in 1954 in the united states and the pacific northwest, where the u. s. was doing testing of the atomic bomb in the pacific ocean. and a rumor started that fallout was coming down on the pacific northwest, particularly in the region of seattle, washington, and people started to see these pit marks on their wins grades. and it became so concerning that the governor of washington state owned president,

i's our and asked for assistance in an investigation was conducted. and the researchers concluded that people started looking at their wind screens instead of through their wind screens as they normally do. and there's a similar parallel here with her van syndrome because people have anomalous health issues all the time. but now, anytime a diplomat or an american service personnel has some type of help incident, it's automatically looked at in a new frame. that this may be a syndrome and you know, the other reason why i think this is so much a political issue is the word and the word here is embarrassing. that thing that the u. s. government, under trunk,

and now buying have miss identified the mating calls of crickets and sick cadence, because that's what actually happened when they looked at these recordings that people are okay. that's another huge potential cost on pack. let's take a very short break right now, but we will begin right on that after a short break. ah, we should have been may, it may, we should all be angry because i was going on, right? can't understand united states history and the role that slavery play use already a very formal institution icon. united states became a nation. it actually to find the nation. the rise of capitalism is clearly on the back of flight. and it's laid down if you have this huge lynching city,

great extent. you can't believe that the country and country still stands in brick . i'm from the south. everybody know, know what this figure. to some extent, i would argue that we're still fighting the civil war. and the south is winning with . mm hm. mm hm. welcome back to wells of course, but for some of you all have honest and jump mass psychogenic illness. and the reason story behind the embassy mystery and hysteria, professor sell me your mansion

b at making holes of the cottage. a potential hypothesis i think, was initially suggested by the, by the cubans as well. it sounds a lot of people and it's funny. i, you know, the, the issue i have with it is that if you go back to those initial i cases that they call case i originated that the low level of c i a officials and have on them. but they were supposedly affected. not that the embassy compound, but rather too large hotels and i think, and residential building or something where people of other nationalities are also present. if that was indeed the evil doing of cekada or the natural behavior when they're foreigners be effective as well. you know, in cases of vast psychogenic illness, it's important to understand the historical. busy context in november of 2016,

the c i, a officers walking near their homes and havana and hearing the strange sounds. they weren't sure what to make of them. and they said that it was almost like a beam of sound being pointed at their homes. and in late december of 20161 of them had your pain and headache. and he went to the embassy clinic, which is very common symptoms. and afterwards he made it unusual comment. he said, you know, it's almost like someone is pointing a beam of sound at my home at night. and they didn't think too much of that. but then a couple of other officers mentioned the same thing. and then this theory developed that the russians, or maybe the chinese or pointing some new acoustical device at the americans as a form of harassment. and what's really interesting here is, when more recently you've had claims of microwave radiation in the fray effect,

it's not the fray effect. we know that now, because in 2018, a top secret classified report of a lead sciences called the jason group, looked at the possibility of the fray effect. and these scientists eliminated the fray effect because what, what happened was of the 1st 21 victims, 8 of them reported their attack. now, if it's microwaves, you can't record the microwaves because they're not a sound the microwaves. bombard your head and stimulate a nerve in your ear or brain. there's a debate as to which one it is. and you get the perception of a barely discernable clicking sound. but the more the that's right. and when they

looked at the recordings of those 8 recordings, they concluded that they were made in calls of these short tail cricket. and some other recordings that were done turned out to appear to be assessed as cicadas. so it's just not possible. i mentioned the tailor which tries before. many historians noted that say one village was known for its world, some fraction population. there were many arguments over property and raising right as well as over value. it was a highly pure isn't and then we are righteous society. it's not given the level of political flores ation in the united states, especially following the election of donald trump. when some of those 1st reports of the have been john occurred. do you think it may have been a factor in the emergence of bass here?

well, this is a case of a bad journalism, bad government and bad science. there really should be an investigation of the journal of the american medical association and how they ever published the 2 studies they did. my 1st career was as a journalist. about 40 years ago in the united states. and, you know, one journalist look into stories like this. you can't be an expert on everything, acoustical weapons, or microwaves or all this other stuff. so you have to rely on experts. but in this case, the experts at the journal of the american medical association have really let us down. i don't know how those studies were ever published in the 1st books. well, you would be a blame on wonder as journal but you know, as a, as a journalist who has been covering american politics over the last 5 years. and, you know, look at the case of this whole russian gate and the narrative that it was essentially

the crime linda has install. donald trump in the white house and you know, whatever was the level of russian interference in the american elections, it definitely wouldn't have raised to the level of, you know, electing a president for a country more than 300000000. and pretty much every american major, mainstream american outlet run with this story i saw. and by the way, was also a big democrat. the democrats from made the conscious decision to portray tromp as a russian agent. they knew it wasn't the case. we know that from the weaklings, but they made the conscious public relations decision as a way of, you know, destroying his image. i'm wondering, divided administration is dealing what essentially it's saw, it's on and it's a fairly light case at this point. a big issue that's going on right now, it's very frustrating to me as so many news organizations. and so many leaks of

officials and in american government keep pushing this idea that the diplomats in cuba had brain damage. if you can show me that they had brain damage, i'll resign my position in the department of psychological benson often. university . this absolutely unequivocally, not the case. what happened was in 2019, the journal of the american medical association published the study, which looked at the small cohort of patients in cuba. and they found brain anomalies. brain anomalies are not the same as brain damage. it's very common in small groups. when you look at brain scans to find vine or anomalies, and these anomalies were very minor and they have conflated anomalies with brain damage. it is not been found whatsoever that there was brain damage in the diploma action. cuba,

but it keeps getting reported over and over again. you, so i give the medicare for that. my direct question about the manipulation of the narrative. and that's your right but, and what do you think can refrain my question a little bit? because i think the level of psychological, our nation in the united states is very fine. this is what allows for such psychogenic infections to originate. and brad very rapidly, would you foresee another cases like that, for example, the queue or non conspiracy. do you think it stand by the similar psychic energy? do you think they may be out of cases when people will be easily led to believe that somebody is out there trying to frame them or cause them damage? yeah, look, it's very concerning what's going on with the american government in with the

american media and how they have handled this case. and the situation is right for an incubation of further cases like this. you know, at some point you have to listen to science and the scientists, and that's not the case here. on the national academy of sciences, the senate foreign relations committee, they interviewed mostly believers. where are the skeptics? the national academy of sciences didn't interview many of the skeptics, the prominent skeptics who have been speaking on this case and the same with the senate foreign relations committee. and there's this misunderstanding out here that mass psychogenic illness is somehow some kind of mental disorder or calling people crazy. it is absolutely not the case. and people, i would assume i need somehow dealing with that because after all are being posted

somewhere, overseas is indeed a stressful job. and maybe if people are so susceptible to those theories, maybe they need help. now i have time for just one question and i want to ask you about the media because i know that before your single out the media as a, as a main driver, an amplifier of the psycho genic illnesses. and it's very interesting that the point of view made that people are now wanting in line. now using social media media to relieve that psychic stress the way they used to go, for example, to the church, but instead of being discharged, the stress is being collectively accumulated. it sort of, you know, continues that it's infectious power. can you talk more about that? what would possibly be done to prevent this isolated case of psychogenic illness

from spreading all around the globe among let's say, one countries, diplomatic personnel or even bigger groups. yeah, well, there's a danger here for the future. and we have to get our house in order in the united states. i'm a u. s. citizen, i'm a new zealand citizen. and it's really embarrassing to me when you have such partisanship out there. and now on both sides coming together on this. and they have not looked at the science and they haven't listened to the mainstream scientist. i'm not a rogue scientist on a straight down the line mainstream scientists in those studies in the journal, the american medical association, any neurologist or medical doctor worth their salt, who takes the time to examine those studies. those studies are very flawed, and we need to listen to mainstream science. but unfortunately, the waters have been muddy bipartisan politics and it's destroying the united

states of america. and we've saw the last few years, and it's very concerning. it's very alarming, and it's, it's disturbing. well, let's hope that somebody will take a lesson or 2 from a very interesting and yes, funny. although, as we discussed before, it would be pretty dangerous, given that this issue is now being discussed with been the military intelligence of russian, the united states. but all the nuclear capabilities that they have anyway, professor told me we have to live in there. thank you very much for being with us. thank you. and thank you for watching to see you again next week and will depart. ah

ah oh is your media a reflection of reality? with in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high selection for community. are you going the right way or are you being led to somewhere? which direction? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. you're chatting with me for just the nutrition too, but john the me this you and sending them from boshoway shakeelah. hi sharon, my name is rob lee with me yesterday acquired the summer moody mcgrew. she been wholesale and kelly recruiting court and i renewed my for azure night. you're sure that i was young with of long didn't get to. i learned that to me for she gave us and i must be happy i can. i'm of fact mother, you know if that you could think of that? no, cuz he asked him to you myakea protection for him. um, with the money that i can live

with ah, this weekend candidates prime minister is reportedly rushed to a safe and vacuum patients side has more than 10000 truckers and their supporters flood parliament hill can opposition to vaccine mandates with russia. the usual suspect behind the mass movement with the other stories that shape the weak ukraine dominated. both the headlines and the minds of nato states, with leaf alarms and munitions and military equipment handed over to kia. while the us and u. k. prepared to send troops to europe with but not all needle members agreed to weaponized ukraine. germany was slammed by allies for blocking.