ah, i'm actually as in, you're watching a special edition of going underground 54 years since the tet offensive. the turning point against us was in the vietnam region that killed 6000000 as american forces fought that war to make the world safer capitalism. in america, the youngest mayor of a major u. s. city was waging his own war against unrestrained corporate power targeting his city of cleveland. his stand against the privatization of the publicly owned mooney light company echoes fights all around the world against neoliberalism. joining me now from cleveland is that mad dennis goosenich, former democratic nominee for the u. s. presidency and author of the division of light and power. dennis, thanks so much for finally being on going underground dam. i should just stop there by the fact that we're being warned here in london that vladimir putin might turn

the light and power off in your view. your thoughts on the fact that the nato, a briefing, we are on the brink of war in europe, and the biden is preparing thousands of troops to fight awards. russia. i can tell you eric, from our american shide im talking you from a neighborhood including ohio and no one around here is thinking or talking about war. people are just trying to live their own lives. you get through the pan, derek, of find a way to survive initial economy. and i think that people are going to pretty typical of most americans. i think our country needs to finally come to a on time with, with russia. resolve the underlying issues are truly, really energy. what's interesting is that my book arises at a time that there's a context for control of energy market, oil,

liquid natural gas. and anytime you have that kind of a struggle, there's always the possibility that people will do whatever they can in order to dominance. and so we have to be very careful here in this stage about overreaching and we get the world really is seeking for a way to come to pace and the saber rattling right now. that's going on. i don't think church or any country. well, particularly those in your and i think the united states mr. viner support and need to be in constant contact and lower the temperature right now, because i don't think anybody really wants more. i, i can't imagine that anyone thinks that a, their anywhere in structure conflict. i mean, there's literally talk of comparison to the cuban missile crisis. well, you know,

it has to be kept in mind, rushes troop movements are happening within the russian borders. i think that really needs to be understood and russia just as any sharon nation has the right to defended some borders. i think the hysteria that's being wicked up needs to be discounted mightily. and in light of the fact that there are, are various agendas that are seeking to be advanced in the name of security, which actually when they're unmasked, you can see that in a way, it's kind of a naked attempt to grab interview markets. and we have to be very careful about that. i think that there are, there needs to be a genuine effort to repair the united states relationship with russia. but one of

those agenda is privatization, and i'm not sure about cleveland, but here in london where i'm speaking to you from, often it's been talked about, the people face a choice between eating or heating. just how did you fight of the u. s. as the youngest man, i did the fight against privatization unit cost your life as you describe in the division of liking power. it's really important to, to remember that any time any organization corporation has the ability to control and energy market, whether it's for electricity and what used to make electricity, oil, natural gas. you can basically to control the market. you can name your price and get it. and what people pay for the basic essentials of life, recruiting energy is no small matter. i mean,

i remember growing up in cleveland as my family moved around a lot throughout the city. i remember my parents counting entities to pay a utility bill. there are people everywhere who are trying to make ends meet and what we pay for for electricity for energy, for oil, for natural gas is no small matter and show when i was the mayor of cleveland. and i took this book, the division of light and power is all about. i had to make a choice about who did i represent, did i represent the company that was attempting to grab a monopoly? should they could increase the price of electricity or did i represent the people of a city who have a competitive electric system that exist extensively to be able to keep right slow . and so you know, this was what it was all about. and there were billions of dollars each day. i mean, i asked the former british energy secretary of state about the need is some,

see it to keep energy resources, energy supplies on the democratic control, otherwise known as nationalized or under the control of local government. he appeared to be saying that's where the dinosaurs who haven't caught up with the great new economics pioneered, of course, by reagan adventure. now, natalie is the media, the dinosaur. okay. we have to keep in mind that public utilities, unless the people controller a list of control, basic public services, they're always going to be subjected to increases. i mean, this is basically, it's an economic issue. it's an issue of ultimately to record our freedom. so if, if you know wherever you're at in the world, if all of a sudden a service previously was provided to the public at a, at a, at a reasonable and

a low price gets privatize, it is actually erratic that you're going to pay more because the only reason why anyone would private jobs in his interest in order to, to have a monopoly and then you increase the cost and lead the public. that's what happens . on the other hand, if you have a, if you have a monopoly that exists in the private sector over a, what should be a public service? the idea of municipal is ation is one that should only be taken if you can prove that people can save money because it's all about trying to help people make it through their own lives. so that the most important thing in their lives does not become having to pay utility bill. but look when your facial monthly bill, you have to pay it or whether it's coming from government or from the private sector. and i don't hold the belief that government can do everything it can. i don't want to government, you know, i'm, i'm not a fan of socialism. communism capitalism. hey, i, you know,

i'll ask you, i can be rheumatism. but i also think that we need to be mindful of what public policy does to the people when you permit for private monopolies to control the price. if the public controls are they can always go somebody out office if the price goes too hot. but if it's controlled by the private sector, they have no action whatsoever. who is, be mindful, that's quite a undistinguished for anyone having read this book because the fact that obviously what you just said that is not part of the public discourse. here's why i wrote a book, and if you're trying to be you for it and look what happened to you, just describe what to have. i mean, also describe the levels of corruption that you see as being bused by the idea of any privatized, defacto public monopoly. well, if you can,

if you have an awfully and something of alarms in public, whether it's electricity, water, natural gas, or transportation, education on and on and on. health care, you know, i wrote the bill in the stage to provide for medicare for all single payer. now where you can get a monopoly nigger price and, and, and get it. so what happens, what happens is that the private utility subverted the city government you know, gave contributions to politicians so that they would vote their way. but there would be on that. there's a bird in the media, they use their advertising dollars to be able to get the media to say whatever they want to say with respect to the city public utility. so the media fell in line

dutiful, son, agra, 1st and attacked the cities utility of the cities ability to run a utility. even though the cities utility was making a profit were serving the people and behind the scenes. and this is documented by the atomic safety and licensing commission of the nuclear regulatory commission. behind the scenes, the private power company was working to stop city council from approved from improving any kind of improvements to the city electric system. and it was determined later on they were creating outages. honda municipal system, there are blackouts that we created quickly during holiday seasons. and then the media which i see you have an electric system doesn't work. you know, we had one that was being sabotaged. and this book is a story of corporate espionage, of corporate, sharon charge of the, of creating blackouts in the city all with the intention of grabbing

a natalie on electric power and wiping out the city system. in cleveland, we have competitive systems, we have a private system serving part of the city and a public system serving part of the city. but the private power company wanted it all. i'll get to media collusion and why you had to carry a starter pistol on you in a, in a 2nd. but of course, what you just said that britain has a universal health care system, which is funded with the half of the percentage of public money per capita than they do in the united states. still, it is a universal system. some people say there's a deliberate running down of nationalized systems just the way you put it there. so that people, certainly the elite of a middle class is start to stop using these public systems in order for private. and also it then allows people to say, see, it doesn't work when it's a democratically accountable, is this something that people around the world should be aware of?

absolutely. the private interests, if they can gain control over which is essentially a public service, such as health care. again, you know, your price and you get it. now just think for a moment, the consequences of this were in a pandemic right now. it's affecting a whole world, you know, in a country like america, which is really been hit very hard by cogan. how much better we would be if you know, for last few decades, we would have a public house who, some more people would check in regularly. and be able to monitor their health and make health care a not just a service, but make it a consciousness that people have so that we take responsibility for only how can government can't give a shout. we take responsibility for our own health and we start to do things and waiting for our immune system, our ability to respond to diseases. you know, that haven't done years ago. but in the why hasn't it been done?

why is joe biden have no, absolutely no intention of our intention of doing anything like that? well, i think, you know, political parties are controlled by corporate interest. and the democrats, unfortunately, went that way, decades ago and decided the only way they could get enough money to win elections was to do it. republicans were doing, i was get the money from corporation. and the private health care interest and private insurers can, you know, contribute my own to yours campaigns. that basically it's a pay to play system. it's almost an auction and they policy goes to the highest bidder. you know, it's pretty, pretty simple in that regard. i mean, you know, the great mass of american people would prefer to have access to health care to, to pay less and, and have a broader range of services. it's not happening and you know, i, i carry that flight forward in the united states congress for many years and

there's the need is still very great in our country. i really feel sorry for so many people suffering because this system doesn't serve the paper, which serves interest groups that i can finish. i'll stop you that more from the twice us to have a presidential contender. after this break, you're chatting with chinese musicians and the you know, new them from dosher she can hi, sharon nash with nice. yeah. that is likely to some degree with lucy being closed on any kelly

cody quote and i renewed my friday night. you're sure that thousands of learned didn't kick low lattice with musky atkinson adams sat mother enough that i'm looking for christy asking him yet. he had detention for him. um get my the money that i can let, let miss ah ah

mm welcome back. i'm still here with what we us, congressman dennis considers 50, said mayor of cleveland and twice democratic presidential contender does mean the corruption scandal here in britain, the about cash for questions in the british parliament. what would you say 2 politicians around the world watching about why the corruption goes from taking a few tickets for a bowl game right up to having questions asked in the legislature? well, she seems our systems are corrupted. and i think many people go into public service with the intention of actual service because they, they care and people even knows of integrity can find themselves in compromising

situations. if there are political patrons ask for specific chambers as the consequences of dispensing those figures are not carefully considered. so i really look at it as the changes have to be made systemically, in order to make it possible for politicians to avoid the narrow occasions of being compromised as a worker. then what does it mean if you're in public office? what it means is, take any money from anybody who's bound to ask you to do anything, not how you know that might cause some whiplash. when you think about it, but the actors what it comes down to, don't take any money from anyone who may ask you to do anything. well, i think by them the president of the united states is bankrolled, arguably in the senate by the credit card industry via amazon google. boeing talk

to you is gave money to his campaign. we, you ever attempted to fagin a ticket for a ball game by a financial corporate interests that you suspected of having a alteri? i'm just now, not a chance. let me say, i don't want anything if you go into public life looking to fill a hole in your soul. no, he's going to feel that all. no blandishments, no contributions, nothing of the way i look where it got you. in this book, there is a transcript from w k y c news of a hitman. i wanted to kill you quotes. we come to my case, phyllis, that's what i was told we come back to finish. he was cut from a different cloth. wow. did you find yourself wanting to keep a pistol and the after assessor the police learned of a math, hit them?

well i, i never, i never are myself. everybody was i, you know, they're still there. that story was a gun rights, i think was a started to pistol when i i'm no, no, and i that that was another story from another era that was i'll call it apocryphal . but i to speaking of the challenge that our case when i was mayor. but it was made very clear to me by police intelligent the connection between the assassination plot and my position in refusing to sell our municipal electric system to this private utility. you have to keep in mind that during this time, cleveland was the bombing capital of america because of wars between various factions, of organized crime and organized crime, had penetrated into city government into the banking community. and you know, unfortunately, that the power that was exercise was such that yeah,

you could pay, i hit man, $80.00 grand to kill a mayor. you know, the fact that i survived that i was just lucky. i mean, it was want to town for a high powered rifle shot. came to my house. i'm in right now, and i missed my head by fraction of a fraction period. and you know, i, i, i like you to be right now, but i was lucky to get through that period without getting hurt. that obviously would have meant no moving arguably of the entire democratic party. animal progressive line in the presidential attempt 24 and 20. 08 i just quickly on the media, you do talk about the u. s. corporate media being the handmaiden of the corruption involved in privatization. well, from my experience in clear it was early in my political career as a city councilman,

that i came into contact with an internal document of the clean electric aluminum, a company where they basically were bragging how they were using and manipulating the media in order to get positive coverage of the clean electric aluminum company and negative coverage of the municipal electric system owned by the people so much so that they were directly delivering editorials to read to the newspapers and to television stations. and having them published verbatim. in order to be able to get their point of view across which total propaganda, that was corporate propaganda and they were using it to undermine the public's right to be able to own their own electric system to keep electric rates low. so we can go over that little local paper there, arguably internationally. i have to ask about the fact that, given that this kind of thing is reported again and again in countries with neoliberalism, let alone in the united states and the effect of privatization neoliberalism. do

you think ironically that the impact of privatization was something that steve bannon tapped into in that speech with donald trump, american carnage. and actually had the despair of the midwest of the united states that came from this kind of these kinds of actions use talk about in the book. well, elected drum. you know, let's talk about the read westerman the midwest. was d industrialized. and one of the reasons why we lost so many industry was the high cost of electricity, particularly because of these private utilities, raising a cost of energy to the rough. ok. now the over arching issue is a philosophical one. the mayor of cleveland, who founded our municipal electric system at the turn of the 20th century, thomas johnson. he said this and i, i think that, you know, his words are, were very eloquent. i want to repeat them. i believe in public ownership of public

service, monopolies of water systems, of schools, electric systems, of parks and on. because if you do not own them, they will in time own, you know, corrupt your politics, role your institutions, and finally destroy your livers. now that will show over a 100 years ago, there's nothing short of of freedom involved here. and when people end up paying more and businesses end up paying more in industry, paying more, it creates a destruct, destructive economic, undermining of people's lives period. could that quote from that previous review mayor of cleveland, cleveland be used is extended to the military industrial complex. it owns you when it comes to the white house. one of my, one of my books in my library is about the life of david

as our, who was president of the united states. when he, when he left the office in his valedictory stage, he warned about the influence of what he called the military industrial complex. on the everyday life of americans is warning, you know, should be put in stone outside of public buildings across the country. because a, what's happened is this, that a larger and larger percentage of the budget of the united states goes for the military contracting. and in a way behind the scenes, it helps inspire wars and to keep us at war. it is a, it is a corrupt system that will take money that should be used for education, for health care, for feeding people and just give it to

a military contractors who will make sophisticated hardware that's trying to find a way to years. you know, i, i, i was right in the middle of that for 16 years. and i, and i refused to vote for budget, which ended up saving money from the american people and giving it to this big war machine. which just look for ways to keep things stirred up so they can find a way to use their products. i mean, you know, is there, is there a connection? look, any time, any large corporate interest have great influence over a government. it cannot be to the benefit of the people of that nation. but even the lobby, a sun k street, arguably didn't us the pentagon to us for 778000000000 dollars this year for the military budget using joe biden thinks that giving them extra is of price with

paying the same office. i mean, i know, you know, i, because i will tell you, i think, you know, we made a mistake in personalizing this, i know because i know i know job. i didn't know for more than 50 years. i don't, i don't think that he thinks the charge that you just express, but i do say that he has spent a fairly loyal servant of a system that supports that approach. and that that's a problem which a bipartisan problem. it's the reason why party politics doesn't work. the reason why the system is not serving the american people. well. that last national defense authorization appropriation that you mention. congress clustered up about 27000000000 more than was even asked for. and show you wonder what is going on here

with, with all the needs that exists. now people can say, well, just keep printing money. well, we've got to look at our monetary system. and if we're going to do that, because within the context of the present monetary system, the way that the governments being rod is highly inflationary. the basic needs of the people still are, are being met. and i will tell you that we have a crisis which involves public confidence in government and government leaders and . and the root of it is that corporate interest, i haven't shown traded the government and are actually calling the shots for policy . and just about every area of american life. well, some people to go to very rich. obviously during the pandemic, we often say on this program, 40000000, maybe more need food stamps to eat tonight in your country. if anyone reads this book, one is going to have to ask the question,

can change in your country be achieved peacefully, you sacrifice your health, you nearly died in the hospital. there was that mafia hits attempted. the levels of corruption. defamation can change in your country be achieved peacefully. of course, you don't believe in revolution. i believe in spiritual evolution. cultures evolve if you get a chance to. yeah, i was american citizen was set up so so that we could try to help a country adapt to an agreement, a future. but it would help if we had public financing campaigns to take away the great influence that has existed by and from corporate interest. that would be a good start, but you know, our system is weakened by corporate influence. there's no question about it. now, is there a way to break it? of course there is. and then involves electing. people are determined to do that.

and that involves people actually getting involved, at least on a level their book and becoming more aware. you know, it's going to happen overnight. now. can it happen? of course, a chance. you know, the countries always had this capacity to break through god. you know, it all depends on, on who and who's elected. dennis is, thank you. that's over the show will be back on wednesday 22 years to the day. south african president, w to clerk live to the 30 a band on nelson mandela's communist affiliated african national congress marking the beginning of the end of apartheid until then, keep in touch by social media and let us know how you think the power and greed of big business can be restrained with badges, financial survival guide, when customers go by, you reduce the price,

didn't el, reduce a lower better cutting, but what's good for food market? it's not good for the global economy. with fleeing from anger, the canadian prime minister is reportedly brushed to an evacuation site that more than $10000.00 truckers protest against vaccine mandates. outside parliament. we hear from one driver who's been in the heart of the demonstration and also what we've never seen. anything like this before, either ordinary canadian or simply tired of it, but a government telling us how we are both to live our lives. that the british prime minister consider sending more troops to nato mud at the same time to talk with the russian leda. critics play these just trying to divert attention from the deepening party gate scandal at home and i can't wear a massive look for brandon. is it a thing with the.