to rate in corporations, you might be targeting, people are harassing people because of their political views because their political messaging has happened. in this case, it's a very grim situation and it doesn't seem to be getting better anytime soon. i'll leave without thought live for moscow. you've been watching out international world news of 11 kevin now in reporting that your service. thanks for checking with . welcome to mac hazards, financial survival guide. looking forward to your benefits. yeah. this is what happens, dimensions and brittany does this, have you watch kaiser report? your channel selected a 1000 mick jagger, the nutrition which on the nucleus you it's on the sub boshoway, she can hi sharon,

my name is sharell bob with vision in black again, i have to yeah. to see if that a flip over the summer group were blue, she been wholesale moorland and kelly recruiting court and i renewed my for azure night issue of that 1000th of love didn't get to a lawyer letting me for she gave us in mind too. i must be lucky. i am a fat mother enough that you can think of that little misty asked him. you myakea dare to push him. um, we'll proceed again martha. the moment that i can let through ah

ah ah hello and welcome the cross stock. we're all things are considered. i'm peter level . war panic is in the air, but not in care of. apparently, nato says it's united against why she's so called aggression against ukraine. but alliance members act in differing even contradictory ways. washington in london appeared to want confrontation their allies. not so much. ah to discuss these issues and more i'm going by my guess patrick kennings and in plymouth. he is editor and founder of 21st century wire dot com. and here in moscow we have maxine switch cost. he is director of the center or advanced american

studies at moscow state institute of international studies are generally crosstalk rules and the fact that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. let's start off with patrick in plymouth and i ended my introduction by saying it looks like washington in london are more keen on some kind of confrontation with russia over the, the point of view, crane and forest johnson is i'm going to swoop in to europe and you know, has a great diplomatic plan that he's a landing about. is he just trying to avoid investigations into a lot of bad parties, or does he really actually have an idea? and then i will, we'll talk a little bit about bad phone calls. patrick, get your take on this pitch fever they were hearing the boys. johnson was absent without leave on this issue for weeks with so called party gate. meanwhile, the sort of the war effort in the u. k. press and through all the various ministers was going on under the surface. so it's

a very bizarre situation to say the least. they're sort of late to the party politically anyway, the u. k. but they're very active, of course, via nato, behind the scenes. so look, is the bottom line here is, this is one of the biggest ever sort of virtual build ups to war in history. i mean, this is a propaganda operation. the likes which has never been undertaken in modern times. and we, we've seen various types of propaganda with the war on terror, but not with sort of a conventional war warfare or with a sort of, you know, made to major powers going out to this level. so this is like new territory. so the question is, what is the objective here for the west and there's a number of major pieces on the table. obviously there's geopolitically. no, the u. s. is wanting to renegotiate just about every sort of major agreement this left over from the cold war era, from various missile agreements that is backed out of, but also sort of, you know,

defensive arrangements. reciprocal arrangements that work a set up by the cold war. russia is very much wanting to abide by those treaties. again, we always recognize in the last 3 years, at russia's acting as a normative power. they're very predictable. you know, the u. s. is acting like in a rational state, actor nato is just taken on a completely different take their become an ideological organization. now, you know, they're no longer a defense. they're much more than just a defense, a lot of ideological, let's spread freedom and democracy. this is the new mission of nato. so this is a total break. so it's understandable why russia can't negotiate with these these parties because it's very difficult to know where they're coming from, especially the united states. but we can go into that in a bit. ok, let's see, let's talk about bad telephone calls. it looks like the president of ukraine zalinski kind of dropped the ball. he's not playing his role in the script here.

and as i pointed out of my introduction, you know, you have, you know, western countries, you know, like united states like the u. k, pulling out their dependence, you know, from embassies and all that. and then he actually told the truth, at least for a short time, he did say, you know, what's all this panic about, i'm here, i am present. i see what's going on. this is an over reaction. i'm paraphrasing, of course, is, is he in trouble? i mean, you don't, you don't tell the president of the united states, your patron, that he's wrong. you don't say that to the u. k. another one of your friends. and i would think he's on very, very soft ground right now. your take on what's going on between the u. s. and, and you will, you know, as they say you, i'm responsible for forever, for whoever you've tamed. so i think the use lensky is, is in, and in generally the, this, my don revolution in ukraine has been

a poster child for, for democracy. whatever a u. s. was thinking of back in 2014 when they were supporting their qu. but i think what's interesting that the lensky is becoming a dark cardinal for american domestic politics. as you know, president trump was each one of the telephone conversation with him. president biden was already in trouble over his some dealing scene ukraine. and then it was in the last, he was still in office. now the republicans are threatening to impeach president biden when and if they take over the congress in november of this coming year. so, you know, even days i saw the name tag going around this money because lensky was, he's becoming kind of a big pain in the neck for, for the u. s. domestic, but the seriousness. i think the situation is very bizarre indeed,

because for the what prompted zelinski to talk in public initially was of the i don't know whether was asleep on the tongue or button me spoke. we're going to spill the beans on the quote unquote modern incursion, a brushing to ukraine, that what the administration biden said would go and fight over. that in itself was quite an interesting remark. but the lensky initially was talking about there are no minor incursions. there's on the big invasions that we have to care about, and then, you know, biden kind of turns the tables. this will actually, i am talking about the big invasion and the last, the goals. what are you talking about? we don't really see an invasion come. so i do think it's did that the situation is kind of a self inflicted panic and won't, but we should have perhaps in common because this narrative sun, what may come next and what type of invasion may come have been, you know, going round from different angles and it's easy for the 2 presidents and the

vitamins lensky to kind of sleep on their own. banana. yeah, it's interesting, patrick, i mean, who would have thought a comic from a said common crane with a be in the cross hairs of 2 precedents when telephone calls it. we went from, you know, it was a perfect telephone call to. it was a bad telephone call. zelinski patrick it over the last few months. i can remember when irma he was going to have a meeting with the americans and he was on twitter. we need to be in nato now. meet on. and now he's beginning to realize the cost of getting in the nato is his head. ok, and a good and maybe chunks of his country. i mean, he's the hall guy and all this, and i think he's begun to finally realize it. ok, we don't know what kind of control he has over as intelligence agencies or the military. patrick, your answer survey lover of illustrated a good point to this to this effect in his response. to anthony blank and white

paper and nato's white paper. it's good that they're passing papers around by the way, right now that's better rather not to be public. missiles and bombs. but again, i said, look, you can't, you can't guarantee that the ukrainian military is a unified organization. in other words, there are paramilitary units, or you know, far right paramilitary units, which aren't under the direct control all the time of one single unified apparatus . so if you look at, when you ramp up tensions and you have a potential for either a false flag or an image, 17 style event or the gulf of tonkin type, a miscommunication that might be intentional, in fact. but anyway, that aside, it's very dangerous. a situation where you're heightening tensions like this and u. s. is definitely putting pressure on ukrainian government on zalinski. many people will say that the ukraine government is captured already by the western sphere of influence by the united states. and it's interesting when you listen to

tony blinking a very shaky by the way, very nervous. when you listen to his speech is press conference or the night he's really only concerned with 2 things. one of them is a stockpile or stocks of weapons. the u. s. is unloading all of their old last year's clothes out stock on the ukraine, and then stockpiles of energy or energy energy supplies. and it's funny that these threatening the rest is saying, rushes threatening europe with weaponized. if russia weaponized is it gas, and l have a dramatic effect on the european consumer and so forth. there's nobody doing more to shut down and trying to pipeline than the united states and britain. ok. so, i mean, you can't take us seriously in diplomacy when they're making 2 different statements . basically the same speech, i mean, it's totally inconsistent, like the level of duplicity is just off the charts. so it's, i can see it being very frustrating for

a survey lever off russian diplomatic team to have any kind of meaningful negotiations or to, to know that you're going into negotiations. and the other parties already basically choosing of acting in bad faith before you even come to the table. so basically this diplomacy is finished at that point and what you have is this kind of media award this bizarre parallel universe. it's been constructed by the u. s. media they've brought on the tele click go now in the u. s. media doing the rounds, the mayor of kiev, and they're saying vitality, are you going to physically stand up and fight those russians when they come to sac? yeah, i mean, the idea that russia is going to march in sac, he is just fantasy, but this is what passes for like legitimate political discourse. right now in the united states. i mean, is really in a crazy situation. it's, it's come to right now. you know, mess it was about to think about that week 10 days ago that the russians maybe

planning some kind of who in change of government. yeah. but you know, if you really think about it, i mean, maybe that's exactly what the u. s. department in the, in the brits are thinking themselves because he did it in 2014. they might do it again and then blame someone else. i mean, i wouldn't let it pass. these people go ahead man. well obviously it's hard to to think rationally. when you have this irrational argument on the other side, i think what's 140, perhaps east of the likely next round of talk, see russia to continue this talks is going to evolve around something that foreign minister elaborate mentioned in again response to white papers. when, you know, basically the state department said that they're not going to discuss the future of need to ukraine's potential accession tinita, which everyone knows is not going to happen at least anytime soon. and the response

is suggested that russia is going to spin this issue around the concept of quote unquote, undivided security in europe and lateral who is referring to the 2 important papers that i think the rational part is going to put on the table. that is a stumble declaration of 999 enough on a declaration of 2010 that endorsed this concept. if i divided security and no security of any country in europe could be achieved via security of other states. and i think that that is the substantial conversation and it's better for all the parties to, to go to talk about the i can jump in there. i mean, this is something that the russians have brought up before, but nothing burg, the general secretary i just want addressing. i mean, this is again, one of the most frustrating things here is that the russians presented to papers. essentially what would become treaties blink. and just that won't react to ok, the self and burns as if, you know, the, the whole universe revolves around nato,

is rules, which is so bizarre. i mean, i'm not, in ne, goes to, why should i buy and care about its rules. now you're right, and this is a good point. nato is open door policy that seen as sacrosanct. this is basically become akin to in terms of the west and nato members. this is equal to internet, no law in their eyes, but they all got a heart breaking up about our break will continue our discussion on some real estate r t. ah ah oh, when i was showing wrong, when all proofs just don't hold any world yet to see out disdain becomes the advocate and engagement equals the trail.

when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, welcome at across that were all things are consider 9. peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah okay, let's go back to patrick and plymouth. we had to go to a short break there. go ahead and please. then finish up, he thought, no, this, this idea that a nato policy open door policy in this case is somehow sort of equal in sort of weight to international law. this is the argument that's being put forward by nato countries. so how did this happen? this has been sort of drifted out gradually over the last few years. you can see it in the rhetoric is becoming more political,

more ideology. yonce dalton burgess is becoming sort of more of a political, a figure than sorta director general of any military alliance of nato's desperate for relevance in the world. and this is one of the reasons why this crisis is being ramped up. i believe there's also an economic piece on the back end of that. of course, that's the arm sales. it's the military, industrial market. okay. but beyond that, they're also very scared. you know, they're very close. they know they're, they're losing or we have lost the don bass. ok, creamy has gone. everybody knows that john mearsheimer said that in 2014, nobody got a and memo in washington for sure. but the dumbass is gone. so this is a very difficult and they want revenge for crimea. okay, they're going to keep sanctions on. they're gonna sabotaged the normandy format and try to make sure the minks accords now or never realized. this is also a major objective of the west. so they're really in a difficult situation and again, it's a, it's

a situation that they're making. now the, the, my don qu mostly piece for protesters into, into 2014 that and also did denial of history. the fact that the west has always been interested in destabilizing or, or grooming a certain factions in western ukraine and this region since the end of the 2nd world war, you'll never hear any of these 2 points. the qu, in 2014 and the history of the region, you'll never hear this address in context ever by any us media politician or think tank pundents re. okay, and this is, this is the reason why there's a major disconnect here in terms of discussions and diplomacy. nancy went to eat with, haven't brought up the dumbass. right. i think this is where it's really key to it all because i think them if there are thinking people in care in washington in london, they know that the dumbass is lost. i mean, he can stay inside ukraine's borders, but it will have never had cable never have direct control over it again. i mean,

the camp government, you know, is killed, 14000 people there. i mean, i wouldn't trust them governing the don bass again when see that's the key to it all. is it somehow get a provocation for the russians to do some kind of committee action regarding dumbass, they care regime already knows it's gone. that's how you look at the men, that's the trap. when attack will been attacked. ok. and then you know, the dumbasses of pros and cons. it has a different status. and then the same thing, you know, some kind of skirmish around by me and i ended up in defeat and then they say, well, ok, our reward now is to get into, into nature. because we, we, we had to fight off and aggressor, we, we were too small. we do in fact, that we didn't have enough allied support. and then there are candidates, he becomes a lot more viable. does that make any sense? the maps, it does make a lot of sense to me and i think in that context of overflowing of ukraine with

weapons. and then some of the private military contractors from the west is very, were some, in this respect for the assessments that so we, in moscow here from, from, from the united, staves, are that, you know, since there are no security guarantees denita with then kind of formal nato framework we, the americans in the british and others have to show some support to the ukrainians are doing so by supply of weapons and then things like this. i think we're also in other problem is that we're still are not secure from the what i would call the soft gosh, really syndrome. you know, it may not necessarily come from his left. you can self, but as, as patrick and many other analissa pointed out already that there are tons of actors, destructive accuracy, ukraine, and that laboratory alluded to that are interested in repeated when all these talk over the, over the over done by show between russia in the us and others and would be happy

to use the weapons that are supply to them to a stage of provocation. and, you know, create a pretext that causes bella for the, you know, russian response and things i guess. and that will then escalade to an unintended war. that no party really seems to be wishing for, because there are seriously no, no consequences, no consequences that you can predict at this point. but i think we've also seen the past that wester states while having the a do not have a b, as for it was, it comes on the train policy. really interesting, patrick them. a not so long but forgotten. bass reappeared in the british press as part of shank fact or, you know, came back from his trip from over the new years. he was in poland and rubbing turkey and the right back there was an arrest warrant for him. he showed up duly at

the prosecutor's office and then apparently from what i'm told is that they were western embassies and cancer. but you know, let him out. ok, i mean, pressure was the blind. this is what i'm told here. and i was didn't, you know, has been, is, gets big headlines. i mean, again, you know, they the soc, ashby, we are back. i wouldn't want to be mr. zalinski right now, because they're finding another say again, because remember what a shank, i tapped the don balance that the guy they wanted. yeah, that's what watching the one that's what one get wants and someone will do it. ok, the crane has to get slaughtered, but you know, that's the whole point isn't about ukraine. ok. what is anchor that once he might do it again? lensky, i think it's suddenly realized he is. he is the sacrificial lamb and all this. and i think that's why i reached out to the brats. sure, sure. i mean, the biggest fear of, of the west obviously is, is bilateral talks and negotiation between kevin moscow that cut out the middle man

as it were you. what else would you expect with 2 neighbors? so this is why the trying to basically inflate this as a sort of international crisis in imminent war and imminent invasion by the russians to make it more of an international for could be very easily be di, fears. but that's not so simple as we know that the hand of the united states is so far into ukraine right now. and it has been for the last 7 years that i think it's almost inescapable that level of pressure and influence that every ukrainian leader is going to basically ex, experience. it's very difficult situation to decouple the west from, from ukraine on all those different levels. zalinski has an opportunity to do some great things in this situation and for his country and for the region. whether he actually takes that opportunity or not to take a very brave leader to do that. and especially in the fight in politics like

himself. but back to the original point, the or my colleague here made maximum is that, you know, the false flag aspect is dangerous, but it, in, in the west it will only take is it could be a cyber. false flag is a really ramping up the cyber. so what i think would be an easy risk free escapade which the west loves risk free escapades, especially the u. s. in britain is to have some sort of a cyber incident, blame it on russia, and then throw down the hardest sanctions that you've ever seen. and basically declare this as ritual war, but as love rob said, if they're going to lay down a new raft of sanctions like this, that will be the equivalent from moscow's position of basically a break in a, in diplomatic relations. that serious dots are prelude to actual war, or it puts you into a hard cold war setting and nobody wants that to happen. but it seems like that's the direction things are being pushed. so we'll see. yeah, i mean, let's say,

i mean, i have to agree with tactic. i mean, essentially there's, there's 2 traps here. the ukraine has turned into a wonderful headache that the russians have been generated by the western united states in the u. k. and just constantly boiling, having the grain boiling, or plan being, it wasn't get to a certain point. they just wanted to rush out of europe altogether. and that's why they're thinking about this all energy situation, because that's the, that's the weak link and all this week, there are reports that, you know, the u. k. in the, in the us are, are one to cobble of energy assets. natural gas primarily from like tar, and other places like completely remake the energy map of europe, which should be very, very costly. probably he wouldn't work. ok. i mean, this is something that is very, very dangerous because, you know, germany is the power house of europe and what the german economy is doing. good. and it's export oriented. an export oriented countries mean a lot of energy. again,

you know, the 2 biggest losers and this isn't crane in germany. go ahead. well, i think exactly. that's the reason why the vide ministration is now being mad at hermanson and why the british are also getting that as a germany. how would behave. and i think for the 2nd time in the last year, ever since the germans stood up for the north stream to a pipeline. this is the 2nd time they're trying to demonstrate that they actually do hear a little bit at least about their own strategic sovereignty in the decision making . and are perhaps not willing to jump into this crisis without 1st seeing what russia up to are not willing to flood ukraine with weapons. and we have to give it to the credits of germany. the been very careful, unlike many other nations in the west about providing weapons to armed conflict

and the, the, the have to, i think in a more kind of cautious waiting line here to see what would happen next before you know, running before the train and we can sanctions on russia and shutting down the street, and that is not perhaps the position that the biden ministration expected. they thought you know that germany would be great ally in this crisis and would actually take on responsibility for, you know, pioneering the toughest response to russia. and will hopefully, you know, the germany here may, may all of a sudden then perhaps to the many surprise too many here in moscow be more and more cautious than the past. we'll see if they're able to stood up to the all that pressure that's coming from from washington now, and continue on the track. and the paintings are also getting mad at germany for not as they think are doing enough before to, to, to jump to there to support you know, i'm not doing enough to help destroy their own country. i, this is a thing i really, we're patrick about 30 seconds last year. i think ultimately this is this gambit

that nato is playing out is going to is good, is the part of the demise of nato, which i wouldn't regret, obviously. but also, the effort to separate right to from europe will, in my opinion, isolating europe go ahead. 20 seconds to you know, and the important point is germany is, is as big as target is anything in this whole geopolitical exercise, pulling germany away from russia, making sure germany doesn't face eastward, not only that, but for the belt and road project as well. germany is fit to service both the east and the west. patrick patrick, again, the cold war mentality is nowhere in the west. keep the russians out, the germans down the americans and as well, it is still in gentlemen. that's all the time we have want to take my guess the limit and here in moscow i want to thank are we were watching us here. are the see you next time remember? ah ah

ah oh is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation, whole community. are you going the right way or are you being that direct? what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend

a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, and today to speak. we are standing together with our nato allies against the potential aggression a. tonight, the bars jones has a time to shift attention to you, crazy, criticized by lawmakers as the probably the downing street in from us 2020 the policies 5 serious failures and staying with you cray. no threat of a planned invasions ever come from any russian politician, moscow's envoy to the un. it's clear about attempts to escalate this acute situation in the region. we're going to cover all but elsewhere. keep an eye on this to kind of as prime minister brands protest as it.