this country the we start asking yourself, why do they die? why do what will they fighting for? nobody bothers down to about that contractors and canada's prime minister tries to slag off an escalating protest movement as a mob of racists who steal food from the homeless. i've more than 10000 truckers and their supporters rally against no job. no job mandates that the parliament building an ottawa but the prime minister words seem to have only poured fuel on the fire. it breaks my heart because my government supposed to have my back. he's calling me racist, extremist. ah, what have i done to deserve that? and today to speak, we are standing together with our nato allies against the potential, the creation of black. with course johnson's attempt to shift attention to ukraine

is criticized by law makers as be proven to downing street infamous 2020 lockdown parties, finds the serious failures and staying with ukraine. no threat of a planned invasion has ever come from any russian politician, moscow's envoy to you, and is clear about attempts to escalate the security situation in the region. those are your headlines this hour. that has a for me actually. but don't worry, my colleague, collin, great, will be here just under an hour's time with a full and fresh look community with our internet, with, with, with hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm global. war

panic is in the air, but not in care of. apparently, nato says it's united against russia, so called aggression against ukraine. but alliance members act in differing even contradictory ways. washington in london, appeared to want confrontation their allies. not so much. ah . to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess piper, kennings and in plymouth. he is editor and found her a 21st century wire dot com. and here in moscow we have maxine switch, cough he is director of the center or advanced american studies at moscow state institute of international studies or a gentleman, cross talk rules and effect. that means you can jump any time you want and i always appreciate it. let's start off with patrick and plymouth, and i ended my introduction by saying it looks like washington in london are more keen on some kind of confrontation with russia over the,

the point of ukraine. and morris johnson is i'm going to swoop into why europe in, you know, has a great diplomatic plan, but he's a landing about, is he just trying to avoid investigations into a lot of bad parties, or does he really actually have an idea? and then i will, we'll talk a little bit about bad phone calls, patrick, get your take on this pinch fever they were hearing the boys. johnson was absent without leave on this issue for weeks with so called party gate. meanwhile, the sort of the war effort in the u. k. press and through all the various ministers was going on under the surface. so it's very bizarre situation to say the least. they're sort of late to the party and politically anyway, the u. k, but they're very active, of course of i and nato behind the scenes. so look at the bottom line here is, this is one of the biggest ever sort of virtual build ups to war in history. i mean,

this is a propaganda operation. the likes, which has never been undertaken in modern times. and we, we've seen various types of prop, again, with the war on terror, but not with sort of a conventional war warfare or with a sort of, you know, made to major powers. going out to this level. so this is like new territory. so the question is, what is the objective here for the west and there's a number of major pieces on the table. obviously there's geopolitically, you know, the u. s. is wanting to renegotiate just about every sort of major agreement this left over from the cold war era, from various missile agreements that is backed out of, but also sort of, you know, defensive arrangements. reciprocal arrangements that work a set up by the cold war. russia is very much wanting to abide by those treaties. again, we always have recognize in the last 3 years, at russia's acting as a normative power. they're very predictable. you know, the u. s. is acting like in

a rational state, actor nato is just taken on a completely different take there become an ideological organization. now, you know, they're no longer a defense. they're much more than just a defense, a lot of ideological, let's spread freedom and democracy. this is the new mission of nato. so this is a total break. so it's understandable why russia can't negotiate with these these parties because it's very difficult to know where they're coming from, especially the united states. but we can go into that in a bit. ok, let's see, let's talk about bad telephone calls. it looks like the president of ukraine zalinski kind of dropped the ball. he's not playing his role in the script here. and as i pointed out of my introduction, you know, you have, you know, western countries, you know, like united states like the u. k, pulling out their dependence, you know, from embassies and all that. and then he actually called the church, at least for a short time. he did say, you know what, all this panic about, i'm here,

i am president, i'd see what's going on. this is an over reaction, and paraphrasing of course, is in trouble. i mean, you don't, you don't tell the president nodded states your patron, that he's wrong. you don't say that to the u. k. another one of your friends, i would think he's on very, very soft ground right now. your take on what's going on between the u. s. and can you bring, will, you know, as they say, you become responsible for forever, for whoever you've tamed. so i think the use lensky is, is in, and in generally the, this, my don revolution in ukraine has been a poster child for, for democracy. whatever a u. s. was thinking of back in 2014 when they were supporting their qu. but i think what's interesting that the lensky is becoming a dark cardinal for american domestic politics. as you know, president trump was each one of the telephone conversation with him. president

biden was already in trouble over his some dealing scene ukraine. and then it was in the last, he was still an office. now the republicans are threatening to impeach president biden when in, if they take over the congress in november of this coming year. so, you know, even though i saw that name tag going around this money, because lensky was, he's becoming kind of a big, big pain in the neck for, for the u. s. domestic. but in seriousness, i think the situation is very bizarre indeed. because for the what prompted zelinski to talk in public initially was of the, i don't know whether was asleep on the tongue or button me spoke. we're going to spill the beans on the quote unquote modern incursion, a brushing to ukraine, that what the administration biden said,

go and fight over. that in itself was quite an interesting remark. but lensky initially was talking about there are no minor incursions. there's on the big invasions that we have to care about, and then, you know, biden kind of turns the tables. this will actually, i am talking about the big invasion and he goes, what do you talking mode? we don't really see an invasion come. so i do think it's did that the situation is kind of a self inflicted panic and wound, but we should have perhaps seen it coming because this narrative on what may come next and what type of invasion may come have been, you know, going around from different angles and it's easy for the 2 presidents in the biden and zaleski to kind of sleep on their own banana. yeah, it's interesting, patrick, i mean, who would have thought a comment from a common crane would be in the cross. there's some 2 presidents when telephone couples we went from, you know, was a perfect telephone call to. it was

a bad telephone call. the landscape patrick over the last few months. i can remember when it was going to have a meeting with the americans and he was on twitter. we need to be in a tow now. meet on, and now he's beginning to realize the cost of getting into nato is his head. okay. and a good and maybe chunks of his country. i mean, he's the hall guy and all this. i think he's begun to finally realize that, okay, we don't know what kind of control he has over as intelligence agencies or the military. patrick, your answer survey lover of illustrated a good point to this to this effect in his response to anthony blankets, white paper and nato's white paper. it's good to the passing papers around by the way, right now that's better rather not to be public. missiles and bombs, but again, i said, look, you can't, you can't guarantee that the ukrainian military is a unified organization. in other words, there are paramilitary units, or you know,

far right paramilitary units, which aren't under the direct control all the time of one single unified apparatus . so if you look at, when you ramp up tensions and you have a potential for either a false flag or an image, 17 style event or the gulf of tonkin type, a miscommunication that might be intentional, in fact. but anyway, that aside, it's very dangerous. a situation where you're heightening tensions like this and u. s. is definitely putting pressure on ukrainian government on zelinski. many people will say that the ukraine government is captured already by the western sphere of influence by the united states. in this interesting, when you listen to tony blinking is very shaky by the way, very nervous. when he listen to his speech as press concert tonight, he's really only concerned with 2 things. one of them is a stockpile or stocks of weapons. the u. s. is unloading all of their old last year's clothes out stock on the ukraine, and then stockpiles of energy or energy energy supplies. and it's funny that these

threatening the rest is saying, rushes threatening europe with the weapon ice. if russia weaponized is it gas, and l have a dramatic effect on the european consumer and so forth. there's nobody doing more to shut down in train to pipeline than the united states and britain. ok. so, i mean, you can't take us seriously in diplomacy when they're making 2 different statements . basically in the same speech, i mean, it's totally inconsistent, like the level of duplicity is just off the charts. so it's a, i can see it being very frustrating for a survey, live ra, russian, diplomatic team to have any kind of meaningful negotiations or to, to know that you're going into negotiations. and the other parties already basically choosing of acting in bad faith before you even come to the table. so basically this diplomacy is finished at that point and what you have is this kind

of media award this bizarre parallel universe. it's been constructed by the u. s. media they've been brought on the tele click go now in the u. s. media doing the rounds, the mayor of kiev, and they're saying vitality, are you going to physically stand up and fight those russians when they come to sac? yeah, i mean, the idea that russia is going to march in sac, he is just fantasy, but this is what passes for like legitimate political discourse. right now in the united states. i mean, is really in a crazy situation. it's, it's come to right now. you know, mess it was about to think about that week 10 days ago that the russians maybe planning some kind of who in change of government. yeah. but you know, if you really think about it, i mean, maybe that's exactly what the u. s. department in the, in the brits are thinking themselves because they get it in 2014. they might do it again and then blame someone else. i mean, i wouldn't let it pass. these people go ahead man. well obviously it's hard to to

think rationally. when you have this irrational argument on the other side, i think what's 140, perhaps east of the likely next round of talk, see russia to continue this talks is going to evolve around something that foreign minister leverage mentioned in, again response to white papers. when you know, basically the state department said that they're not going to discuss the future of need to when you cranes, potential accession tinita, which everyone knows is not going to happen at least anytime soon. and the response is suggested that russia is going to spin this issue around the concept of quote unquote, undivided security in europe and lateral who is referring to the 2 important papers that i think the rational part is going to put on the table. that is a stumble declaration of 999 in austin,

a declaration of 2010 that endorsed this concept. if i divided security and no security of any country in europe could be achieved via security of other states. and i think that that is the substantial conversation and it's better for all the parties to, to go to talk about the i can jump in there. i mean, this is something that the russians have brought up before. melton burge, the general secretary. i just want addressing, i mean, this is again, one of the most frustrating things here is that the russians presented to papers. essentially, what would become treaties? lincoln just that won't react to ok. the self and burns as if, you know, the, the whole universe revolves around nato, is rules, which is so bizarre. i mean, i'm not in a ghost. why should i buy and care about its rules? no, you're right, and this is a good point. nato is open door policy that seen as sacrosanct. this is basically become akin to in terms of the west and nato members. this is equal to internet,

no law in their eyes, but they all got a heart breaking up about our break will continue our discussion on some real estate, r t o. join me every posted on the alex simon. sure. i'll be speaking together in the world of politics, sport, business, i'm show business. i'll see you then. mm. you're chatting with jagger, the nutrition with chinese students on the sub casual regime. kim? hi sharon, i'm not sure. sure. okay, with me. i sure. yeah,

i look forward to some recruiting with she been closed online and kelly recruiting quote and i renewed my product here shows that thousands of london q 2 are letting me for she gave us times to i must be lucky. i couldn't fathom of fact mother, you know, if that i'm looking for a federal pesky asking you myakea protection for human procedure. martha? a love oh, welcome back to crossed up. were all things are considered. i and peter labelle, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. i

let's go back to patrick and clement. we had to go to a short break there. go ahead and please finish up. you know, this, this idea that nato policy open door policy in this case is somehow sort of equal in sort of weight to international law. this is the argument that's being put forward by nato countries. so how did this happen? this has been sort of drifted out gradually over the last few years. you can see it and the rhetoric is becoming more political, more ideology. john stoughton burgers is becoming sort of more of a political figure than sorta director general of any military alliance. so nato is desperate for relevance in the world. and this is one of the reasons why this crisis is being ramped up. i believe there's also an economic piece on the back end of that. of course, that's the arm sales. it's the military, industrial market. ok, but beyond that, they're also very scared. you know, they're very close. they know they're, they're losing or have lost the don bass. ok, creamy has gone. everybody knows that john mearsheimer said that in 2014,

nobody got the memo in washington for sure. but the dumbass is gone, so this is a very difficult and they want revenge for crimea. ok, they're going to keep sanctions on. they're going to sabotage the normandy format and try to make sure that makes records are never realized. this is also a major objective of the west, so they're really in a difficult situation. and again, it's a, it's a situation that they're making. now the, the, my don qu mostly piece for protesters and in 2014 that and also denial of history. the fact that the west is always been interested in destabilizing or grooming certain factions in western ukraine and this region. since the end of the 2nd world war, you'll never hear any of these 2 points. they're qu in 2014 and the history of the region. you'll never hear this address in context ever by any us media politician or think tank pundents re. ok, and this is, this is the reason why there's

a disconnect here in terms of discussions and diplomacy. nancy went to eat with, haven't brought up the dumbass. right. i think this is where it's really key to it all because i think if there are thinking people in washington in london, they know that the dumbass is lost. i mean, he can stay inside ukraine's borders, but it will have never had cable never have direct control over it again. i mean, the camp government, you know, is killed, 14000 people there. i mean, i wouldn't trust them governing the don bass again when see that's the key to it all. is it somehow get a provocation for the russians to do some kind of kinetic action regarding dumbass thing here? regime already knows it's gone. that's how you look at the man, that's the trap. when attack will been attacked. ok. and then you know, the dumbasses of pros and cons. it has a different status. and then the same thing,

you know, some kind of skirmish around by me and i ended up in defeat and then they say, well, ok, our reward now is to get you into nature. because we, we, we had to fight off an aggressor we, we were too small. we do in fact, that we didn't have enough allied support. and then there are candidates, he becomes a lot more viable. does that make any sense? the maps, it does make a lot of sense to me, and i think in that context of overflowing of ukraine with weapons and then some of the private military contractors from the west. this very were some in this respect for the assessments that we in moscow here from, from, from the united states. or, you know, since there are no security guarantees to need to within kind of formal on me to framework that we, the americans and the british and others have to show some support to the ukrainians are doing so by, you know, supply of weapons and then things like this, i think we're also in other problem is the,

we're still are not secure from the what i would call the soft gosh, really syndrome. you know, it may not necessarily come from his lensky can self, but as, as patrick and many other analissa pointed out already that there are tons of actors, destructive accuracy, ukraine, and the laboratory alluded to that are interesting to repeat a when all these talk over the over the over done by show, between russia in the us and others, and would be happy to use the weapons that are supply to them to stage a provocation. and you know, create a pretext. and that causes bella for the, you know, russian response and things i guess. and that will then escalade to an unintended war that no party really seems to be wishing for, because there are seriously no, no consequences, no consequences that you can predict at this point. but i think we've also seen that the past that wester states while having the a do not have a b, as for it was,

it comes on the train policy. really interesting, patrick them. a not so long but forgotten. base reappeared in the british press is shameka in fact or, you know, came back from his trip from over the new years. he was in poland and rubbing turkey and the right back there was an arrest warrant for him. he showed up duly at the prosecutor's office and then apparently from what i'm told is that they were western embassies and cancer. but you know, let them out. ok, i mean, pressure was the blind. this is what i'm told here. and all of a sudden, you know, has been, is, gets big headlines. i mean, again, you know, they, the soft gosh, really affect, i wouldn't want to be mres lensky right now because they're finding another center again. because remember, porter shank, i tapped the don bangs that the guy they wanted. yeah, that's what washington was. that's what london was. some one that'll do it. ok,

the crane has to get slaughtered, but you know, that's the whole point isn't about ukraine. ok. what is anchor that once he might do it again? let's see. i think that suddenly realize he is he is the sacrificial lamb and all this. and i think that's why i reached out to the press. ok. sure, sure. i mean, the biggest fear of the west obviously is, is bilateral talks and negotiation between kevin moscow that they cut out the middle man as it were you, what else would you expect with 2 neighbors? so that is why the trying to basically inflate this as a, as a sort of international crisis as an imminent war and imminent invasion by the russians to make it more of an international for could be very easily be di, fears. but that's not so simple as we know that the hand of the united states is so far into new grain right now. and it has been for the last 7 years that i think it's almost inescapable that level of pressure and influence that every ukrainian

leader is going to basically ex experience. it's very difficult situation to decouple the west from, from ukraine on all those different levels. the lensky has an opportunity to do some great things in this situation and for his country and for the region. whether he actually takes that opportunity or not to take a very brave leader to do that. and especially in neo fight in politics like himself. but back to the original point that my colleague here made maximum is that, you know, the false flag aspect is dangerous, but in, in the west, it will only take is it could be a cyber false flag. is a really ramping up this cyber threat. so what i think would be easy risk free escapade which the west loves risk free escapades, especially the u. s. in britain is to have some sort of a cyber incident, blame it on russia, and then throw down the hardest sanctions that you've ever seen. and basically declare this as virtual war. but as leverage said, if we're going to lay down

a new raft of sanctions like this, that will be the equivalent from moscow's position of basically a break in the, in diplomatic relations. that serious dots or prelude to actual war or put you into a hard cold war setting and nobody wants that to happen. but it seems like that's the direction. things are being pushed. so we'll see. yeah, i mean let met same. i mean, i have to agree with patrick jeremy, essentially, there is, there's 2 traps here. the ukraine has turned into a wonderful headache that the russians have been generated by the western united states in the u. k. and just constantly boiling, having the grain boiling, or plan being, it wasn't get to a certain point. they just want to throw russia out of europe altogether. and that's why they're thinking about this all energy situation, because that's, that's the weak link and all this week, there are reports that, you know, the u. k. in the, in the us are, are one to cobble an energy assets. natural gas primarily from like

tar, and other places like completely remake the energy map of europe, which should be very, very costly. probably he wouldn't work. ok. i mean, this is something that is very, very dangerous because, you know, germany is the power house of europe and what the german economy is doing. good. and it's export oriented. an export oriented countries mean a lot of energy. again, you know, the 2 biggest losers and this isn't crane in germany. go ahead. well, i think exactly. that's the reason why the bite ministration is now being mad at the germans and why the british charles are getting that germany that i would behave. and i think for the 2nd time in the last year, ever since the germans stood up for the north stream to pipeline. this is the 2nd time they're trying to demonstrate that they actually do hear a little bit at least about their own strategic sovereignty in the decision making

. and are perhaps not willing to jump into this crisis without 1st seeing what russia up to are not willing to flood ukraine with weapons. and we have to give it to the credits of germans. the been very careful unlike any other nations in the west about providing weapons to armed conflict and the the have to, i think a more kind of cautious waiting line here to see what would happen next before you know, running before the train. and we can sanctions on russia and shutting down the street . and that is not perhaps the position that the vital ministration expected. they thought, you know, the germany would be great ally in this crisis and would actually take on responsibility for, you know, pioneering the toughest response to russia and will hopefully, you know, the german here may, may all of a sudden then perhaps to the many surprise too many here in moscow be more and more

cautious than the past. we'll see if they're able to stood up to the all that pressure that's coming from from washington now, and continue on the track. and the paintings are also getting mad at germany for not as they think are doing enough before to, to, to jump to their, to their support. you know, i'm not doing enough to help destroy their own country. i, this is a thing i really, we're patrick about 30 seconds last year. i think ultimately this is this gambit that nato is playing out is going to is good, is the part of the demise of nato, which i wouldn't regret, obviously. but also, the effort to separate right to, from europe will end up in my opinion, isolating europe, go ahead. 20 seconds to, you know, and the important point is germany is as big a target is anything in this whole geopolitical exercise, pulling germany away from russia, making sure germany doesn't face eastward, not only that, but for the belt and road project as well. germany is fit to service both the east

and the west. patrick patrick again, the cold war mentality is nowhere to west. keep the russians out, the germans down the americans in are as well. it is still in one gentleman. that's all the time we have one. i think my guess and women and here in moscow and banker, we were watching us here. are the see an exam, remember? ah, ah, ah ah,

ah, every country in the world will eventually make big coin legal, tender. the only difference will be at what price. we have el salvador making the move in the $30000.00 to $40000.00 range in united states that may wait for until it's at $51015000000.00 coin before they finally wake up with travelling to the city has taken mel, dude and his family, several hours.