[000:00:00;00] ah, well come to the alec salmon sure. we examine with her the highly infectious or more convenient of novel corona virus, is surely proving a blessing in disguise. when south african scientists discovered on a convenient late last year, they quickly follow up with empirical and detailed clinical observations. the vedic since my old and its impact compared with us delta arrival. however, it was only when their findings were confirmed by 2 studies in the u. k. the governments throughout the west and both started to discuss treating on record like the flute of relaxing social restrictions despite so in case numbers aren't of

living alongside divided. so it's almost controversial in the her community that the patch you world wide vaccination program has failed to provide. or is it a collective bite of wishful thinking, which could lead humanity open to further new and more deadly radiance? today we asked to talk doctors, doctor, and we could see in south africa, i'm professor human coming in the u. k. both with hands on experience of corporate patients for their view on whether on chrome is proving a blessing or to curse. but 1st, do you treat the most i message is in response to i special show last think, celebrating scotlands national by robert brains. first of anybody who says really enjoyed this episode. and while i always knew robbie burns is recognized and celebration world wide underestimated it. when i listen to billy case history of robbie burns and was fascinating. and then john says in reference for that famous poem, thomas shante. i only find a recently that cutty, sorry,

was the name of the which i thought it was the horse. jord. shirley says, i don't think that's been a program on burns covering the man and his school influence in such depth and with such rated content. congratulations on the show and find me when you talk in relation to alex and not me says you're looking very smart to be no less than the average highest we'd expect. of course, if being addressed. now doctor, i'm to, we could see short to international prominence when in mid november last year she alerted her countries authorities that in her deep practice in pretoria, she was to take think patients with unusual, cooper, 900 symptoms. quickly, south african scientists identified the new on the convenience and reported it to the world health organization. on the 24th of november, alec speaks to doctor could see from her busy surgery in pretoria. and i was my great pleasure to be joined by doctor angelica, could see it from her sometime in patricia and south africa. it article see welcome

to the i'll examine, show you so much. it's a big owner for me to be on your show. and i really appreciate what was that like to become the end of last year of the, the doctor who the skull of the on the convenient and be propelled to international celebrity for what was that like. and i didn't discover the only current i discovered, or i'm a really sore the clinical symptoms. and i reported on the clinical symptoms. and the scientist with their sequencing discovered that the d easy to new variant and not the delta with all these new symptoms that i saw on that specific day. and because i'm part of the ministerial advisory committee on vaccines. i am also in this is the how do i way through that specific day that this day and i sit and

listen. something strange is happening. i'm seeing and clinical picture, outpatient, positive now, but wanted to see our tasting and wrap. it doesn't fit any button. it's not delta, isn't it? you know, i think it's not beat up and that's how it started. we have a lot of start to close it, but nonetheless, it was a, a eureka moment is sort of could see how many patients will be talking about. you identify this a suffering from this new variant towards the end of last year and for with the new year 120 patients up until about 2 to 3 days ago. and we still pacing on a daily basis. patients coming in with a check in seconds, but he's not really any positive cases anymore. so i think within the next week or 2, we would be down to lisa, right? the seat and out of the way. so i know was a father, jude experience, and petroleum was, can send a or micron was a,

a variant that swept through the population because of its when in fact 70 a. but it was up like a rocket and then don't light the steak a because presumably the population was gathering a, an immunity as a result of the infection. would that be your analysis? that's a difficult one. i know the scientist is not going to agree with me, but i think it's the nature of the hardest. i think this isa, it's like a heating iran, you know, eat very high interest of it. you write it. and it is a very, very steep incline. and then just as quickly as he came, it went away. do you have of a theory, ill or something from your practical experience, which would give you a clue as to where the on the con, valiant has been? because it seems to have come down a different line of development from the original woocommerce virus than for example, the delta valiant. so it hasn't been and developed in a, a patient with a compromised immune system or, or has it been arrested elsewhere, unidentified?

or even has it been than the, the animal kingdom of any, any feel as to where do you think omicron came from mackenzie from the new the nets . and, and, and we were lucky to, to pick it up clinically in south africa and on sequence you. but i think i'm, yes, most probably it will mutate in a person with inc compromised immune systems because the immune system would not be able to detect the parts that easily. and this is exactly the type of person that artist needs to do to mutate. and i think leisure sounds, i think that's really important amolla the can't ago whether i was 1st post or scotland had a dispute for the light use that when the, the swimming flu, almost pandemic, of that of that time. where because we had identified number of affected patients,

we were probably the 1st come to in the world in scotland to be able to say with some reasonable certainty. this is a hypo, in fact, of infectious virus. but it doesn't seem to have a severe impact on most people that was similar. that wasn't good experience with all nicole because a very early stage, one of the rest of the world was still saying, well, the says could be duty. you were able to say lutely evidence. we how from to toria as yes, it's very infectious. but also it's rather milder than some of the other venue. the clinical experience and in the mean, if you have been through the delta away, delta is the scary, scary, scary variance. i never ever want to see that in my life. and if you're then so that the clinical picture of those patients and you've got the clinical picture on the cross, it's like choking cheese. it's different totally different picture and it's much

more like the flu or to pose. and with our temperature i without oxygen need and so easy, it is really not this time than delta. and there was another frazier on me to say, you know that while disease. but if you look at the definition of the world health organization, what does your mom disease in terms of covered 90? they need it fixed their the criteria for from us of african point of view. well, you know, with the level of vaccination and what more do you think can be done in terms of the how provision in south africa to, to protect the population more we have low vaccination numbers if you look at it in the price of europe. but you know what, we just need to keep on much as i think our patients to grandkids themselves, sex, united. and it's the difficulty in south africa the, the motivation of the people to be vaccinated on is that the logistics of a vaccination supply?

it is the logistics entities that people that's not always, that's happy to go and gave them. so maxie night it's, i think it's a shaped lot of people if south africa, which has perhaps the most developed health service in the wholesale african continent has been in counseling. these difficult, what message could you give to the international community of vaccinating the humanity as opposed to just bits of it? so what we need to teach, we need to get another form of actions and the storage requirements of these bonds or not can use it for africa. very difficult to long distance is that it needs to travel to lots of logistics, lots of edge or a reality. and then you just start looking at the po, for attempts of the development of what's called a whole variety is vaccine. that is a vaccine that both is it doesn't have to be stored quietly in the conditions of the, of the current ones,

but also effective against the whole virus. where do you think we are in terms of medical breakthroughs, the science in terms of getting to a vaccine which will, which will defend against the virus as a whole, as opposed to just south variance? when i hope, hopefully we'll see the next year that will start to happen and the science is quite to launch. so need, see what happens if it's watched despite finally adopt code, say, attempt, you'll experience a modest in terms of your identification of the, of the video love you prepare, you've got your own and substantial wikipedia page though i'm interested in you personally, i will look that last 2 months as men for from being a all this and distinguish physician and the toria. but to enter an international, a celebrity and expand to on the, on the, on the variance of, of this virus was not meant to you past lam and that's sort of almost

a different what all does it. yeah, i'm lucky and you know, i am very active in your health sector. and so for me, i'm very much outcomes based. and i had noticed already in the last few years, these to move away from practical clinical make sense to move and in personal mates . and you know, we treat a patient over their health is our health platform, which is not acceptable to me. you can treat new patients like that. you cannot buy a domain, you cannot become groves, it's, you know, we do it their own way. we are, we are moving away from good old mason and more technical environments, which i don't think it's going to be conducive going forward for the majority of i should. we will see a lot of problems going forward with the human element just not there. and of course i,

you've been contacted by general practitioners or around the world to who, who are saying, you know, good on, you angelica, if demonstration of, of what hands on practical care of patients. they can tell us about the friends from, from viruses and assess the understanding. you've been the 2nd lots of emails from fellow gps on the planet saying good on you. yes, yes, i have, i got it and i got hate mail as well. so i don't, i'm too old for that. i know what i just needed that i know how to do that. well, i could tell you the article, so you have one very strong admirer from scotland, myself, and i know the views of the alex i'm and show a will appreciate your wisdom and thank you so much for joining me on the show. thank you so much. join us after the big well,

we'll examine the impact of on the corner in the intensive care words that the u. k . with professor human got me on university college london with back kaiser's financial survival guy, housing, rob. oh, oh, you mean the downside, artificial mortgage for dr. carried away what kind of to report this is all smart city is a city that is using technology to make people's life easier to have beer, collecting a lot of data to try to improve the way things are. in theory, these big organizations that are amalgamating and pulling all their data together, they're not looking at you as an individual necessarily people's data being collected or so much data that there's

a real possibility of privacy violation with something most of us wouldn't want to world transparent but we must live with permanent surveillance. welcome back. the highly infectious armor conveyed into novel corona virus is ripping through western societies. but is it proving to be a blessing in disguise? perfect montgomery, it's both an outstanding academic and pride thing in the intensive care wards of london. alex, discuss it with him. the impact of american professor, human godmother, brilliant academic, but also hands on consultant in the busy intensive care wards of london. so what has been the situation over these last 2 omicron months in the intensive care was one has been interesting am, as you will be well aware, mccomb is very,

very highly transmissible, very highly transmissible. it had a really big competitive advantage over lots of other viruses and the other covariance. and, but it wasn't a severe as it turned out. and we also had a large number of people who were excited, which really helped. so the numbers hitting our intensive care units for mechanical ventilation when we're, when near those that we saw in the 1st and 2nd waves. the really big challenge that all hospitals faced was the fact that of course, the american burn still made people sick. it still meant that they had to be at home twice late. they were often laid up in bed feeling lousy 4 days, sometimes with long code, which we can talk about in a minute. but it took them away from hospitals where they would be working for instance, it also meant that family members of children were sick. they had been bold in child care and the epidemic did sweep through. you'll remember that in some areas

it was one in 11 in 151 in 20, people infected. and that was a really perfect storm are certainly in london during december. it was absolutely savage. huge numbers of doctors, nurses off sick, huge numbers of ambulance crew off, sick ambulance waiting times very substantial to get to patients and the ambulance couldn't offload into the hospital because they went the doctors and nurses to receive the patients in. and the system got very badly corked up. so i had personally probably the most sleep deprived run i've ever had in my consultant career. and beating even waves one and 2 in december because of those sorts of issues. and it was large numbers of, of sick people, lot of people going off sick. and of course, the usual when to search that was there. now that we get every year of our, the viruses, heart attacks, chest infections, et cetera. so it's so intense pressure beginning to ease know at least the or mclauren in it's

a cute impact on people. it seems to be markedly demonstrably less potent than previous videos. yes, that acute impact is less am. we are seeing the numbers beginning to decline in hospitals and platter off. many hospitals that flipped their unix, i major areas have become coded and they restrict the numbers of non coded up intending to flip back certain me in, in the london situation. and we seem to be through the really big hit were swept through a staff directly there, so plenty people offset with it, but no one near what we had in december. so things are coming down. but of course, you know me, alex, we've spoken before. i'm not in the law mess, but i'm also not complacent. and this is still a disease, but lots of people haven't had. it does look as if there may be a signal that a noon or longevity of the mean response isn't quite so good. so that's more easy to get

a version again more quickly. and some people do still get burial with this, particularly people with suppressed immune systems can become very poorly with this is good reasons for everyone to be vaccinated and not to pass this to other people . and personally, a large number of people is still a significant proportion. get symptoms that go on a lot longer than just a week or so. feeling flurry. am, you know, people, we all know people who are still saying, i'm still breathless. 2 months later, i've still got a car for a friend of mine talking to me this morning about a daughter who's as a national standard swimmer, saying she's 2 months out and still can't perform properly. these are not minor issues and i personally would rather not have said so. i think the same sort of principles which you now spoken about a long time before. remain and without destroying one's life. meeting people outdoors in well ventilated areas, wearing masks where one can on public transport and so forth. one of these things

just makes sense and they don't tend to ruin your life. and if you can do the most of the time, i think so the usa, a physician having seen the impact of covered. and so many patients do you detect among politicians not just in the u. k, but your denmark? because relaxed all social restrictions this week didn't take all mr. a complacency creeping in, there's all over bother shouting recovered. well, i do, and of course it could be right. i was wrong with the army con baron when it 1st asked, appearing before we had the south african dates that might be milder when i saw it infective. as he, i thought this could be very bad, and i'd always rather prepare for the worst and be pleasantly surprised than be caught on the hawk. now the trouble is, there is a general narrative, isn't there in the press and elsewhere, and in the body politic that we're now going from this pandemic phase where you get these waves of infection sweeping around the world that we're now into an endemic

phase. now the worst of ours just embedded in society, it's going to grumble along at a low level, and they'll have the occasional swing upwards, downwards in the winter months, as meeting with flu. and that combined to the, not the narrative that viruses get more infectious, but less severe. and this virus will, is part of its natural course end up being a bit like the common cold. now that speculation it can do, it may well be more likely to do that in the longer term, but we absolutely cannot be confident to that's going to be the case right now. it could be that we end up with a very, very much nasty bear in cropping up. then we've got the moment we just don't know, and i'm not a puritan are not suggesting. we will go to live as bunks for the rest of our lives . that i do think we've got to be a little bit cautious now about the way we manage the future. and what is this be a 2 very of amazon that we're no hitting about in the u. k. well, this is the, i mean we've,

i've not seen the sequence central sequences down not looked it up yet, but the, and it's just yet another variant, this time of the, or macomber. and it's a new variable, micron, which seems to have and gain a slightly greater competitive advantage in terms infection. so if we look at the genetic signature of a micron that we're getting from patients, what we're seeing is an increase in their out competing the original micron. just as the way that our micron totally swept. the delta vary to side. the good news is, we're not at the moment seeing any signal that this is in any way more severe as an illness. but again, caveats go with all of that. and the thank heavens, an awful lot of that is because the vulnerable as the people who would suffer most women on a chron or a coke infection, are well vaccinated. huge numbers of people in great britain from 12 years old, upwards a vaccinated. i'd like to thank all of those people that have had their vaccines and their triple vaccines because they are preventing these things spreading as se

potentially turning into nasty events and potentially making other people's sake. so am it's a good new story vaccination eaten. so 1st, when governor in the show we've been speaking to dr. angelica caught see the inventory in the south african, the g p, who identified the patients with what top note to be the on the con variant. she was slightly frustrated that that practical knowledge built up in south africa, hadn't managed to transfer the information as easily as she talked to 2 other companies despite her best efforts and broadcasting. or we have a situation where people doing the practical work, seated cove at patients pass on to the colleagues of nationally their experience, for example, with the former tron very, it's a very, very good point actually. and it's something i've learned from this process too because of course, when we got way one, we had no idea what this virus is like or what it was doing. pretty much everything was here. say, remember, the 1st few cases were cropping up really in china,

in mid january, we weren't really getting too much of a signal from what was going on there, then it'll, he got it, and then it was us. we very quickly learned. we had to talk to each other my very 1st friday night on call, where we got absolutely sledge hammered. i was on the phone to friends that next day going, what are you seeing? does it look like this for you? are you seeing this as well? what are you doing for that? are you finding this works as well, or are you finding this is tom full to the very next week? we expanded those knowledge shares as we called the nationally and had the calls in and then disseminated information verbally and on its social media. but we also moved means nationally, so we had calls within that 1st week with italy, germany, france, spain, united kingdom. but also china, iran, and many other countries around the world and it was incredibly useful. and we kept those up actually during wave one and wave to and then i guess took her eye off the ball

a little bit. and that were we seem to have got this one cracked and now our politicians departments can do most of the heavy lifting and communicating now in austin the back for it and tell us what's going on. but actually i have learned from this that may be the thing i should have done on my chron appeared, was to call up my colleagues in south africa. i've got plenty of friends who were there and said, can we just all get on a call every day or 2 and just triangulate what we're actually seeing. because it's often from those direct conversations you can teach the signal out. and from that, i've learned to pick the phone up again. next time i'll just try to keep those of communication oak. i think it helps to be a christian at all levels, political and policy, but also his practitioner friendly human gemelli. at this stage in the pandemic, once your greatest hope and what's your worst fear about the development of this virus? well, it's interesting one, i've got her. again, i'm not in the law,

mr. i'm. i'm hoping that my greatest hopes play out. and i hope that people continue to maintain their vaccination status. so my hope is that people will continue to do that. my fears are that we might end up with abandon. people just going, well, i don't need these vaccines anymore. that's all gone. the new variance will mild, i don't care and i'm not going to worry about it any more. you know, it's end of term. all the works gone. we can now party like it's 1999 for the next year or 2 and it'll be fine. i think that might work out to be a big gamble and my other concern is that we end up with a nasty mutation appearing. and then of course, my looking at the back of my mind is what comes next? because we've discussed this before, but in the last century we probably only had a 3 spill over events as they're known from animals to humans. and this last 21

years. we've had 17. we've had sales cove, one source cove to we've had mergers. we've had serv strep, so as the bacteria, we've had zika from rhesus monkeys that mendez train these because of the way we're treating our planet in terms of deforestation, for instance, forcing predators and pray together, which wouldn't normally ever see each other wet, meet markets and life meet markets, putting animals with feces for and feathers together, which shouldn't be seen either. and then having these crazy international use of airlines where we had nearly a 150 people are 2nd boarding, an aeroplane in the days before co it. so these viruses get spread round very quickly indeed. and as the old saying goes, if you will do what you've always done, you always get what you've always got. and if we had 17 spill over events in recent years, we will have more go gates warned about this one coming. he was right and we will have others if we continue to pay him of his we done before. and it be hubris for

us to do that. we need to stop doing it because the next thing that helps us might be one have a lot worse than this. one is professor human governor of the somber was thank you so much for joining me. once again, on the i'll examine, show thanks very much, very much. pandemic theory and new hyper infectious vital variance lily scary. but that was understandable that many countries would react cautiously to the mountains up on the convenient in december. my moving to tighten their social measures against space of the vitus given infectious nature of on the coin. this is not stop the new vent, sweeping through country after country from an early stage sets out the core provided empirically based information suggesting the owner con, although much more infectious, was significantly less potent. as this information was confirmed by western studies,

official policy has gone into reverse in many countries with restrictions relaxed. talk now of living alongside the virus. natural selection dictates the final things that tend to become more infectious, would infectious the agent. the more successful it becomes in competing with other streams. but there is no such absolute determination. disobedience are in themselves, less potent along the divide, survived, and significant numbers. the more opportunity there is for such a nightmare scenario to march. so far so good. although that still means they're running at $300.00 per day in the u. k. on 10000 to day worldwide. however, the real problem assess the extent of on the coin spread, added to the vaccination program, will confer some protection. however, it seems that far too early to be putting the bunting out and taking the face masks

off for now from alex myself and all at the sure is good bye, stacy. if i mean hope to see you all again next week. ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

with ah ah headline stories this hour at least 6 children are killed in heavy fighting in north west syria while president biden, the hales, a skill and bravery of american commandos, claiming they kill the leader of islamic state at the same time in the same location. russia shuts down the moscow offers of joy, cheer valet that day after germany's media regulator bond r t history channel r t d live reaction on that story. coming up on the new zealand