this is your masa, the muscles that i get my love who's a when i was showing the wrong, when i just don't hold any new world. yes, to shape out. disdain becomes the answer to an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah,

ah, hello and welcome to cross stock, were all things considered on people about war fever over ukraine continues unabated with the u. s. and u. k. taking the lead. however, not all nato members are on board, even ukraine is attempting to dampen expectations of an armed conflict with russia . will washington in london get their way with to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, like a white in new york. she is united nations correspondence in boston. we have vladimir goldstein. he is the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in lancaster we cross to alexandra claxon. he is a researcher at the university of lancaster across stock rules. and if that means you can jump in any time you want, i would appreciate it. ok,

let's go to vladimir in boston. where are we right now? i'm glad i mean, because i thought this invasion was supposed to happen a few months ago. i mean, this is kind of like waiting for godot and the longer we wait, the more we see the western alliance, particularly nato fragment, maybe that's an exaggeration, but they're certainly not all on the same page. the more they discuss this and about what role the united states, u. k. and continental european countries, a nato. what kind of role they should go? headline. well, what do we have here on the surface? it is the same old story about russia invasion, fear mongering and so on. but i suspect that and the knees, every country a rehabilitation is trying to sort of, you know, like they say to fish in the my, the waters. and i feel good in order to johnson if you travel with all his party, whatever he was doing, the non stop. but you know, of course, is my always good, you know,

to get tough stands and say that we're going to show it to russia and, you know, british presses johnson that, and you know, all this stuff, you know here the same thing in the united states and biden is not really about one thing. another thing, so it's always good to have a russia, it's neighbors, you know, need to just use their policy. what's happened is what they seem to be out of sync that you know, your brain. i was very happy to bring in a story so, but it wasn't what they kind of wanted to get with this way and get financial aid military from united states. but, but not this being wandering and not this kind of bending which are on the market. yes, people are on the way and so they're out to sing the same thing applies to some of the european countries, germany and so and so we see that, you know, they are trying to sort of get rid of, utilize it when they wanna benefit. but there are some fractures, how it will unfold, remains to be seen,

but they're there to be explore. let me get in new york, are you covered the united nations without you don't have to agree or disagree with the positions. but we're, we're in the case that the russians, baby americans, the british with a compelling cases. because from what we know at the united nations security council, nothing was really resolved not to make their point, but there were no votes. there's nothing like that. it seems like the majority of sitting on the security council more and more than happy to have that outcome because russia got to make its case the made escapes. you pay me that's go ahead your so yes, so we have this meeting on ukraine on monday. it was very turbine because we didn't know if it will happen until the last moment. norway was the president of the security council. and thanks to that, it was easier because now russia became to president and the u. s. was probably worried that they will not be able to push it forward for what do you and i be.

they said they are happy to actually have this meeting because they just wanted to . ready show the support of the cigarette, the counselor to have it because russia tried to block it in the beginning. they tried. they needed 6 members again. but unfortunately they got only 5. so the meeting was happening and all of the members are able to express their positions. but as you said, nothing, nothing was really i don't or nothing tangible really happened. it was mainly expression of position. yes ma'am. what, what was interesting is that the chinese delegation came out very forcefully on the side of russia, which if i go to alexander, is something, it's a beginning of something here. china, for many, many years. if there's going to be a veto, let the russians do it and we can abstain, you know, mission accomplish it's changing. ever so slow me, allison. i mean, one of the things i find really interesting about this is that finally,

after so many years, 30 years since the end of the cold war, the west has to start listening to russia. i think this is a silver lining in this kind of quasi pro crisis because russia is made, it's in demand to know, made it very clear what they are actually wrote them out in documents that made them public. ok, it is harder and harder for the blinking than the bo jose of this world does keep talking at cross cross purposes, because you can just try and say, hey, it's written down right here. what do you think about that? that's the stage where out right now, go ahead own center. well, i think so, i mean, the root of the problem here is that russia wants to be treated as an equal, at least in europe. you know. and the problem is that after the cold war ever since then, the western russia as a, as a little brother issue like right, you know, the last, the cold war. and so essentially, and the concerns are they have forget about it. and it's interesting that you

mention china as well because that demonstrate i sure that we no longer live in the unit of the world. you know, we have a multiple, a world. and that's why i'm saying, look, things are different. now, you know, this is not the 1090 anymore. we have concerns. you have concerns. let's actually work together and create a new european structure. yeah, european security structure. that's essentially what. ready to try to do, i think you create in many ways it's almost like i'm like a point like, you know, it's a symptoms. it's a symptom. this problem. yes. keep going on. yeah. it's a problem and it's being used by the way, try essentially and show that russia is not able to develop. and it's all based essentially, right. but russian wants to use ukraine to demonstrate. ready that things have changed now, and there is a new kind of world, or if you like, and you multiple order. and that's what i was trying to say. and then the question now is, who will listen? you know, is it the side that understandable?

the fact that russia has security concerns or other of those that are kind of stuck in the kind of cold war modality or the post obama galaxy, where the thing or russia has no right essentially to try to say what it, what it wants. you know what america is, go back to boston here, the, the, the mother of all sanctions. and there will be terrible consequences all of this language here. but it's people that say that really don't know personally, don't know what they're really talking about because particularly since they've been starting with the financial crisis in 2008 and then the sanctions as a result of the 4th regime change in care of in 2014, russia is essentially made itself bullet proof to all of the sanctions here. sanctions have had very little impact on economic growth there. the tiny, tiny bed for the most part, the average citizen doesn't know that western policy makers don't seem to understand them or they understand that if sanctions are applying, it's their european allies that are pay the highest price. go ahead,

vladimir. so you know, it's clear all american politicians is bulletproofing for them. they declare sanctions russian spray ukrainian spray european spray and they look like a winners in american breast. and that sort of, you know, why not push it. so and the press, unfortunately there what bugs me about the just observed in a situation here is a union far, you know, one hopes that some thoughtful people and i go on the state department thinking about it and taking the rational concerns seriously. but what appears on the surface is just the same story, but warning them we want to slap a sanctions, we should not listen to them. they just try to buy much more that they can chew. and some say in voices if, for example, this and the chief in germany who sort of in august on question, they are actually shut down. so it's the prize and the unified in terms of media and in terms of do unified sort of kind of

a flow of information. it's just the same thing. so 11 really wonders when is this kind of bologna? we just a better by media stops and with some so people actually sing, what will be back of the sanctions? how will the germany with how the friends with what will happen in the europe, rochester. delivered in yes. all together. you know, we're fine here in boston, but let them freeze europeans is kind of so i don't know who is actually united states thinking, but they're not on tv. they're not unless media media just as amount of, you know, news about, you know, russian. it's one of the things that, again, you know, the way this media on griffin, in a way from, in my opinion is that, and in alexandria already mentioned, it is that, you know, they're talking about ukraine security concerns, though it is not a member of nato. the u. s. is that it's not going to send troops to ukraine to

defend ukraine, the u. k. as essentially said the same thing for the way she said, we don't want anything to do with this book. gary says, we don't really want to have anything to do with the french president comes out. we, the, you should have a separate dialogue with, with russia. and then the german chancellor says, we need what a, what a fresh start with russia. so, i mean, who is listening to whom here, because if you listen to the general general secretary, the nato sultan burton says, nato is unified. well, that's simply not true. ok. i mean they, if there was a plan, it's not now very well. that's why i said in my introduction, you will, will washington in london prevail? because not everybody's reading from the same script. go ahead in new york. yes, i have been talking to some of the diplomats and as you said, the position does not seem to be united as spoken to with a western diplomats. they seem to let the differ from the american side,

which is really like here pushing sort of in super a, against russia. on the other hand, europe seems to be a bit more reserved in this. and i think we could see it also in 2008 when germany and they sort of locked the membership of your brain and ga nato. and i think sort of is, is atmosphere. and this trend is still a bit here. and of course, based on the outside, they seem to stop or do united states, but it's like behind the closed door down a little bit more cautious actually what they do and it's yeah, i like center that is very curious to me on the outside, you know, yes, we're all allies and we do believe in all of these principles, but when you get down to the nitty gritty, they say what's in it for us here. i mean, because look, i mean, if you look at the history of nato expansion, it's basically been cost free. it's been cost free for the countries to get into it because there was no real threat. but the more to keep you keep the alliance

meaningful, relevant. you have to keep expanding, but when you keep expanding, you're going to come in, meet a threat because russia does not see nato is a friendly alliance. and so you have this country, ukraine that wants to get in. but then also everybody says, oh my goodness, nato could be a target. all members of nato could be for a target. and then, you know, we didn't sign up for this was supposed to be cost free. you know, they were supposed to be, you know, we, we were going to be the greatest alliance in history that never has to fight a war. now that reality is coming home, go ahead and center. well, i think it will be a whole size. if you train doesn't join nato, allow them to see credit. so because 1st of all, for ukraine, it'd be terrible because that would mean essentially there is always a danger that there was some kind of a confrontation with russia, which would damage your trans economy if it's a psychologically just challenging those thing that there's a good, a war around the corner. it's but for europe, because they're also have to live with that with that kind of mentality as well.

and what about for russia as well? so from, for most people, and for most countries who are actually better, if you grad, she said, look, we will not be joining nato. and i think than the world. and you credit especially just done towards actually developing the country. it's economy and actually building better ties. i jump in here, we have to go to heartbreaking out that hard break. we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with our team. ah, it's an open secret that private military companies have been playing a role in our conflicts world wide. us government doesn't track the number of contractors and uses in places iraq or afghanistan, united states army and the military in general. so reliance on the private sector. i would call the dependency, but we don't know who's the on the ground presence of these companies overseas. we just don't out west and private military companies can in their turn use so cool. some contractors from countries with trouble pass

a quite good that they had also been charles. so just to see, i was a professional with choice to be moved to list killing machines. now they fight and die in other people's was people carol, lot one or a dead soldier or dead marie shows up in this country. we start asking ourselves, why did they die? why do what were they fighting for? nobody bothers asked about their contractors. welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered? i'm peter le bell. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some

real news. ah okay, let's go back to alexander alexander before we went to the break, you are trying to finish your point. you have the opportunity to do that right now, please do. yes, as i was saying, it's better for ukraine, especially if it doesn't join nato for the reason which i outlined. but i also should just mentioned that the point about native not being a threat to rush. i mean, if you're not a lot among so circles now, what does that a for sense? you know, it doesn't really make any sense anymore. you know, because if it's not a threat to russia, then why does it keep moving forward? you know, in many ways. but it does also come back to the point of just understanding concerns of each nation. i just want to bring quickly the point of an example of when to rush or try to sell the cruise missiles to iran. ready in 2020, i mean there are states side to threaten with sanctions, you know, they're,

they're an absolute about now. why? because they have certain national interest. that's fine. that's understandable. and therefore russia has the interest related to ukraine. so it should be a level playing game and it's not right now, and that's the, the crux of a problem. so let me think, what is this really all about? because it seems to me, it is much more kind of a, a psychological in philosophical problem. we have a right to expand it, that's what it gets down to. and you should you have, you're not, you, you should not be allowed to say no to us. is this what it's getting down to because everyone on this program is an agreement here. i mean, it's compromising the entire security architecture of europe. if one country cannot enhance is security at the expense of another that was enshrined in the helsinki final act that everybody agreed to. and now, you know, no, it doesn't apply. i mean, this is very selective here. and it is alexander just said to us,

is that what is the purpose? i mean, what, how is it a defensive alliance needs to expand that? don't expand defensive alliances, maintain what they have already. vladimir, you know, well, they have a structure architecture in place. and you know, people, when something works, they don't like to change it, you know, sort of way. i think americans, i should have been if you did a great deal on war. they were in charge of things. they were generally be able to do. there is a danger and you know, to the origin, so nato and all this in europe. remember what they said, you know, the cube, russia out in germany. and i think errington's in, in the americans did it. and you know, the minute germany wants to search something, they call to washington every monday. they still have american military. there is

basically, you know, russians with lessons room, germany, little, the whole thing started there was already, there was over eastern germany there will promise not to spend a minute and i don't do the state they expand, you know, but when you listen to, you know, west and you say, what was it when russia come in, there will be rational, left half. i will just go ahead and do what you join the journal and you can do well, american a on russia and i think it works for them. and somehow in russians are trying to address it in a tension. but i think all the, all american establishes we've used to move in the, you know, and i brought in past programs the historical parallel of the cuban missile crisis. and then from the russian perspective,

believe this is the cuban missile crisis in reverse. ok, i will remind our audience that kennedy told krista, if you don't remove those missiles, we will. and this is exactly what the russians have gotten themselves down to saying, look, we're giving you advance. notice you put an intermediate range missiles on you cranes border pointing in us. we have no choice but to react. we have to protect our national security. this was the same argument that kennedy made with krista and he said you can talk about so you can talk about alliances until the cows come home . but those missiles are pointing at us. ok. we will do something about it. why can't the, the diplomatic class as it were, why can't they understand that analogy to this in the present moment? go ahead in new york. so here i think for them is difficult to sort of talk to each other because when you listen to the security council,

it's bunch of statements yelling at each other with derek and, but it's not really a dialogue question. they wanted to have a close meetings to sort of allow this kind of dialogue and to have more privacy and expressions and not to have this prep prepared statements from the capitals. but the us didn't want that. so i have not seen them really talking to each other. they're basically just after much talking to the reporters and as i have spoken to them, they even say they don't meet each other a privately because of this reason. so only if there are some, they're in a group together. so it seems very, very slow on this and correctly there have been a big discussion about there is 100000, the soldiers which the u. s. and the euro has been talking about under date count from and yesterday rush, and he had a press conference here and he was,

i'm saying is the director is that he has no idea where this number is coming from . so they really don't have this kind of dialogue to get or at least here on is it really on our eyes? yeah, essentially, alexander, i'm glad that link of brought up this number thing. you know, 100140 pound whatever the 100000 troops and they're talking about that are deep inside of russia, not on the border of ukraine. however, it's never spoken about how the ukranian army has 125000 troops on the line of contact of the john bass. that is never mentioned there. ok. russia is not telling you the creating an army what it should do inside of ukraine. why would it it's ukraine? but the western world seems to feel it has the right to tell russia what to do with its military within its own borders. alexander? yeah, well you know, as we have been talking 11 thing i remember it was back in, i think 2012 the hillary clinton who was the secretary of state back then she

actually commented on the original economic union. so specifically saying, look, the key for the state is to ensure that it doesn't expand, especially doesn't survive or something along those lines. you know, they actually do steps to ensure that happens to ensure that you train doesn't join, which would have been a master win for russia. and ever since then, they're just kept going and trying to basically revoke russia into making mistakes and making mistakes, which would then allow the west to sanction them. so it's interesting to know, for example, how many lethal weapons have been provided to ukraine over the last you know, months, for example, even, you know, the u. k. has done so already despite the fact that the u. k is struggling economically following the, the pandemic. i'm sure the mom would have been wise is spent inside the country in the u. k, rather than in ukraine, but fine. but the point is, even when russia is talking about lessening the engagement of western powers. will

ukraine even during the point, has continues to provide lethal 8. so you crane again. imagine if russia contin to do that with iran, for example, lisa late provide a to, to run, you know, you can imagine what kind of a response that they will. ready be so the point is, i think there are different interest among the western countries where we spoke about, i think, for the united states, it's all about keeping russia down. well, i think it was in europe. i think there are certain circles who do want to have a better relationship with russia, but unfortunately for now, united states because of that behind a given the, the legacy of the cold war. it's just that it gets down to the following, for me, is that russia in the ice of western western leads, they lost the cold war and there are consequences for losing. and you have no right to be treated as an equal. i mean, it gets down to that in my opinion, but you know, in the kind of demon ization of russia and russians through popular culture,

russia gay didn't help much. ok. it just, it, there's no recognition of legitimate rights and that's why we have this quote unquote crisis. go ahead one or one of the things you know that it's very hard to pick up when you're in united states or to pick up on the national group when any religious group or anything without some kind of pushback, except when it comes to russian. russians just as it's a free for all, you know, well if you can find even the rest of the day, just kind of know all they can find is limit, but they sort of give the big speeches in congress. we need to sanction before anything happened, a sanctions on russia. you know, it's an engine, just, you know, everybody calls them nothing they, they should, they show. but, i mean, that's the situation from what i understand. i say, you know, chinese president is much stronger united economically, politically whatever. so they. ready they will not challenge china that much. they

and forget about so many other countries. you know, i think that would be, they would say something about it. you know, the whole thing, you know, that he says is big scandal over the t. v personality will go. she said something which, you know, just tried you on racial, racial, racial behaviors, or no of course, wasn't about the race right away from there. but it was the russians. you can say anything, anything that goes and you know, and other items complain when i was when normal americans, some people complete this lab to be put in boards, you know, brain was by us into the bridge and then i'm given legitimacy. so just any other sort of a, well, i can, i can well imagine the names you can call. i know what i've been called lincoln, let me go back to you in new york, you know, doing the diplomatic beat. do you have a sense that the there

a diplomatic solution, a diplomatic understanding is in the air, or is it really way beyond that? it's going to be up to individual leaders and countries that aside the outcome of this go ahead. so hearing you are, the diplomats are basically reflecting what is going on in the capital in washington and moscow. we can hear all the time that they are open to a dialogue that they want to talk to each other in their speech is it's becoming a clear shot. and but i have to say that in the middle of february, we are going to have a meeting on agreement. it's going to be a regular yearly meeting. it's actually during russian president. ok, lincoln, what we're really rapidly running out of time. but don't you think that debate on men's should have happened months ago and not it's not it later this month. anyway, it's all the time we have want to think, i guess, new york, boston and inland lancaster. i want to thank you for watching is here to see you next time. remember?

ah ah, ah. a the name of that i look forward to recruiting and kelly retorted coroner massage tissue didn't get to learn that she gave us and to another. you know that he asked him. yeah,

kill him on that. i think this is all smart city is a city that using technology to make people's life easier, happier, collecting a lot of data to try to improve the way things are in theory, these big organizations that are now amazing and pulling all that data together. they're not looking at yours and individual, necessarily lose data, the link to you so much data that there's a real possibility of privacy violation. and that's something most of us wouldn't want to wells transparent, but we must live with permanent surveillance with

you just come out and say this expect us to believe it without you showing a shred of evidence, that is actually true. the usa department's spokespersons grilled by journalists refusing to provide any evidence for us claims that russia is preparing a false flag attack as a pretext in dating new crime. 6 children are killed in heavy fighting in northwest syria, while president biden hales. the skill and bravery of u. s. commanders claiming that they killed the leader of islamic state at the same time in the same location. also, western media takes aim a beijing with a host of accusations. as major powers boycotts the opening ceremony of the winter olympics, which is about to get underway in china and also on the way this out.