ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, like a white in new york. she is united nations corresponding in boston. we have, let me go see if the chair of the department of slavic studies at brown university and in lancaster we cross to alexander claxon. he is a researcher at the university of lancaster across the rules, and i think that means you can jump in any time you want. i would appreciate it. ok, let's go to a lot of me are in boston. where are we right now? i'm glad, i mean, because i thought this invasion was supposed to happen a few months ago. i mean, this is kind of like waiting for godot and the longer we wait, the more we see the western alliance, particularly nato fragment, maybe that's an exaggeration, but they're certainly not all on the same page. the more they discuss this and about what role the united states, u. k. and continental european countries in nato. what kind of role they should go ahead? lot of why do i have key on the surface?

it is the same old story. beg russia invasion via montgomery and so on, but i suspect that and the knees, every country a repetition is trying to sort of, you know, or say to fish in the mighty waters. and i feel good in one born. johnson is very, very trouble with all his spotty gazing and whatever he was doing non stop. but, you know, of course, this might, it was good, you know, to day get tough stands and say that we're going to show it to russia and, you know, bridges presses johnson that and, you know, listen so, you know, he had the same thing in the united states and biden is not popular, but one thing, another thing, so it's always good to have, you know, russia, neighbors in a need. just use them policy. what's happened is what they seem to be out of sync grain. i was very happy to bring their stories, but what they kind of wanted to get with this way and get financial

a military from united states. but, but not this be a monitoring and not this kind of penny, which derives the market, gets people are on their way. and so they are out of sync. the same thing applies to your be in countries, germany and so on. so we see that even, you know, they, they, they are trying to utilize it when they want benefit. but there are some fractures, how it will unfold. it may seem to see it, but they are there they to be explore link, let me get in new york, or you covered the united nation without. you don't have to agree or disagree with the positions, but where they get the, the case that the russians made, the americans, the british and center where they compelling cases. because from what we know at the united nations security council, nothing was really resolved people to make their point. but there were no votes, nothing like that. it seems like the majority of sitting on the security council was more than more than happy to have that out. because the rush it got to make it case the you as needed states you pay me go ahead a. so yes,

so we have this meeting on ukraine on monday it was very turbine because we didn't know if it will happen until the last moment on our way was the president of the security council and thinks that it was easier because now russia became depressed and he was probably worried that they will not be able to push it forward from one to united states said they were happy to actually have this meeting because they just wanted to show the support of the security council to have it. because russia tried to block it in the beginning a try. they needed 6 members again, but unfortunately they got only 5. so the meeting was happening and all of the members are able to express their positions. but as you said, nothing, nothing was really or nothing. tangible really happened. it was mainly

expression of positions. you know, it was interesting, as the chinese delegation came out, very forcefully on the side of russia. which if i go to alexander, is something, it's a beginning of something here. china, for many, many years. if there's going to be a veto, let the russians do it and we can abstain, you know, mission accomplish is changing. ever so slow. mean, i mean, one of the things i find really interesting about all of this is that finally, after so many years, 30 years since the end of the cold war, the west has to start listening to russia. i think this is a silver lining in this kind of quasi pro crisis because russia is made it's, it's a demand to know, made it very clear what they are actually wrote them out in documents and made them public. ok, it is harder and harder for the blinking than the bo jose of this world. just keep talking at cross purposes because you can just just say, hey,

it's written down right here. what do you think about that? that's the stage we're at right now. go ahead, alexander, i think so, i mean, the root of the, the problem here is that russia wants to be treated as an equal, at least in europe. you know. and the problem is that after the cold war ever since then, the worst was treated russia as a, as a little brother issue like right. you know, the last, the cold war. and so essentially, and the concerns are they have forget about it. and it's interesting that you mentioned china as well because that demonstrate that we no longer live in a, in a unit of the world, you know, we have a multiple the world. and that's why i'm saying, look, things are different. now, you know, this is not the 1900 anymore. we have concerns. you have concerns. let's actually work together and create a new european structure here. european security structure. that's essentially what i try to do. i think you create in many ways, it's almost like i'm a point like, you know, to do this problem. yes. keep going on. yeah. it's

a problem and it's being used by the way, to try and essentially ensure that russia is not able to develop. and it's all based essentially, right, but russia wants to use ukraine to demonstrate. ready that things have changed now, and there is a new kind of world, or if you like a new multiple order. and that's what i was trying to say. and the question now is, who will listen? you know, is it the side is understandable. the fact that russia has security concerns or other of those that are kind of stuck in the kind of cold war mentality or the post obama galaxy, where the thing or russia has no right essentially to, to, to say what it, what it wants. ramirez, go back to boston here, the, the mother of all sanctions, and there will be terrible consequences all of this language here. but it's people that say that really don't know personally, don't know what they're really talking about because particularly since they've been starting the financial crisis in 2008 and then the sanctions as result of the

4th regime change in kevin 2014 russia is essentially made it so bullet proof to all of the sanctions here. sanctions have had very little impact on economic growth there. the tiny, tiny bit for the most part, the average citizen doesn't know that western policy makers don't seem to understand them. or they understand that if sanctions are applying, it's their european allies that are pay the highest price. go ahead, vladimir. so, you know, it's all american politicians, this is in bullet proof thing for them. they declare sanctions russians, indian spray europeans pay, and they look like a winners in for american breast. and that's and you know, why not push it. so, and the press unfortunate there, what bugs me about the just absorbed in a situation here is they unify, you know, one hopes that some thoughtful people tend to go on a stage apartment, thinking about it and taking the russian concern seriously. but what appears on the

surface is just the same story, better as to where warning them where i want to slap a sanctions, we should not listen to them. they just try to buy much more that they can chew. and with some say in voices like, for example, this, and they the chief in germany who sort of in august on question they actually shut down. so it's the prize in the unified, in terms of media and in terms of do unified sort of kind of a flow of information. it's just the same thing. so what one really wonders when is this kind of bologna, we just a better by media stops and with some so people actually thing. what will be back of the sanctions? how will the germany with all the friends, with what will happen in the europe, rochester, delivered in yes, all together. you know, we're fine here in boston, but let them freeze europeans is kind of so i don't know who is actually united

states senior, but they're not on tv. they're not unless media media, just amount of, you know, news about, you know, russian. yeah. it was, it's one of the things that, again, you know, the way this media i griffin away from, in my opinion, is that in and alexander is already mentioned. it is that, you know, they're talking about ukraine security concerns, though it is not a member of nato. the u. s. it is not going to send troops to ukraine to defend ukraine. the u. k. as essentially said the same thing for a way she said, we don't want anything to do with this. bulgarian says, we don't really want to have anything to do with the french president comes out and we, you should have a separate dog dialogue with, with russia. and then the german chancellor says, we need what a, what a fresh start with russia. so i mean, who is listening to whom here, because if you listen to the general general secretary b, nato. dalton, burton says, nato is unified. well, that's simply not true. ok. i mean the,

if there was a plan, it's not working out very well. that's why i said in my introduction, you know, we'll, we'll washington in london. prevail because not everybody's reading from the same script. go ahead in new york. yes, i have been talking to some of the diplomats and as you said, the position does not seem to be united as spoken to with european western diploma . they seem to let the bit differ from the american side, which is really like here pushing sort of in secret against russia. on the other hand, europe seems to be a little bit more reserved in this. and i think we could see it also in 2008 when germany and france, they sort of blocked the membership of your brain and ga nato. and i think sort of is, is atmosphere. and this trend is still the bit here. and of course, based on the outside, they seem to stop or do united,

but it's like a bit more cautious actually what they do and it's yeah, i like center that it's very curious to me on the outside. you know? yes, we're all allies and we do believe in all of these principles, but when you get down to the nitty gritty, they say what's in it for us here. i mean, because look, i mean, if you look at the history of nato expansion, it's basically been cost for it's been cost free for the countries to get into it because there was no real threat. but the more to keep you keep the alliance meaningful, relevant, you have to keep expanding, but when you keep expanding, you're going to come in, meet a threat because russia does not see nato is a friendly alliance. and so you have this country ukraine there wants to get in when i was, and everybody says, all my goodness, nato could be a target. all members of nato could be for a target. and then you have a, we didn't sign up for this. we're supposed to be cost free, you know, they were supposed to be if we were going to be the, the greatest alliance and history that never has to fight

a war. now that reality is coming home. go ahead. alexander. i think it will be in the list of all sides. if you train doesn't join nato and i didn't use your credit . so because 1st of all, where you can it be terrible because i would mean essentially there is always a danger that there was some kind of a confrontation with russia, which would damage your credit economy. it's a psychological, just challenging those thing that there's a good be a war around the corner. it's bad for, for europe because they also have to live with that with that kind of mentality as well. and it is about, for russia as well. so from, for most people and for most countries are actually better. if you crash, you said, look, we will not be joining nato. and i think that the world and you can't, especially just on towards actually developing the country, it's economy and actually building better ties. and we have to go to heartbreaking out that are great will continue our discussion on some real estate with our team. ah, digital smart city,

the city that's using technology to make people's life easier to happier, collecting a lot of data to try to improve the way things are in theory, these big organizations that are amalgamating and pulling all that data together. they're not looking at you as an individual, necessarily people's data being collected so much data that there's a real possibility of privacy violation. and that's something most of us wouldn't want to wells transparent, but we must live with permanent surveillance. oh is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation for community. are you going the right way or are you being

that somewhere? direct? what is true? what is great? in a world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. welcome to match hazard financial survival guide. looking forward to your benefit go. yeah, this is what happens dimensions in britain del, at this app. if you watch kaiser report, it's an open secret. the private military companies have been playing a role in om conflicts. world wide u. s. government doesn't track the number of contractors and uses in places iraq or

afghanistan, the united states army. and the military in general is so reliance on the private sector. i would call that dependency, but we don't know who's the on the ground presence of these companies overseas. we just don't out west and private military companies can in their turn, views. so cool subcontractors from countries with trouble pass. the chances are quite good that they had also been charles soldiers possesses. i was a child, as well as my job professional job is with the whole wouldn't fit good if i said that looked with no flaw minimum own. if they do not sure which way to be merciless killing machines, now they fight and die in other people's was people carol, lot one and a dead soldier or dead marine shows up in this country and we start asking ourselves, why did they die? why? what were they fighting for?

nobody bothers asked about that. contractors in both. welcome at the cross stock, were all things are considered. i'm peter labelle. this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real news. ah hey, let's go back to alexander alexander before we went to the break, you are trying to finish your point, the opportunity to do that right now, please do. yes, i will say it's better for you. crane, especially if it doesn't join nato for the reason i wish i outline, but i also should just mentioned that the point about native know being

a threat to rush. i mean here, not a lot of among so circles now. what is that a false actually, you know, it doesn't really make any sense any more, you know, because if it's not a threat to russia, then why does that keep moving forward? you know, in many ways. but it does also come back to the point of just understanding concerns of each nation. i just want to bring quickly the point of an example of when russia tried to sell the cruise missiles to iran in 2020. i mean, does states start to threaten with sanctions? you know, they're, they're an absolute circle back now. why? because they have certain national interest. that's fine. that's understandable. and therefore russia has their interest related to ukraine. so it should be a level playing game and it's not right now, and that's the crux of a problem. so let me think, what is this really all about? because it seems to me, it is much more kind of a, a psychological in philosophical problem. we have a right to expand it, that's what it gets down to. and you should you have, you're not, you,

you should not be allowed to say no to us. is this what it's getting down to because everyone on this program is an agreement here. i mean, it's compromising the entire security architecture of europe. if one country cannot enhance is security at the expense of another that was enshrined in the helsinki final act that everybody agreed to. and now, you know, no, it doesn't apply. i mean, this is very selective here. and this is alexander just said to us, is that what is the purpose? i mean, well, how is it a defensive alliance? needs to expand that don't expend defensive alliances maintain what they have already. vladimir, you know, well, they have a structure architecture in place. and you know, people, when something works, they don't like to change it. you know, so we, i think americans, i should have been if we did a great deal on war. they were in charge of things. they were generally be able to

do. there is a danger and you know, to the origin. so nato, all this in europe. remember what they said, you know, the queue, russia and germany, and i think americans in, in the americans, this it, and you know, they want to look at it. it's given the minute germany wants to assert something. they are called to washington every monday. they still have american movie, that is basically a room, germany level. the whole thing started with eastern germany. they will promise is that they spend a minute and i don't do the state they expand, you know, but when you listen to, you know, western use, they will say, when russia come in, they never leave rational left. how will you just go ahead and do what you are and join the journal? and you can do well, a sort of down russia and i think it works for them and somehow in

a try to address it in a tension. but i think all the, all american establishes we've used to move in the, you know, if i brought up in past programs the historical parallel of the cuban missile crisis. and what is in this, in, from the russian perspective, believe this is the cuban missile crisis in reverse. ok, i will remind our audience that kennedy told krista, if you don't remove those missiles, we will. and this is exactly what the russians have gotten themselves down to saying, look, we're giving you advance. notice you put a intermediate range missiles on you cranes border pointing at us. we have no choice but to react. we have to protect our national security. this was the same

argument that kennedy made with crucial, and going to be said, you can talk about sovereignty. you can talk about alliances until the cows come home. but those missiles are pointing at us, ok, we will do something about it. why can't the diplomatic classes that were, why can't they understand that analogy to this in the present moment? go ahead in new york. so here i think for them it's difficult to sort of talk to each other because when you center the security council, it's bunch of statements are yelling at each other with their state. but it's not really a dialogue idea. they wanted to have the close meetings to sort of allow this kind of dialogue and to have more privacy and expressions and not to have this prepared statements from the capitals. but the u. s. didn't want that. so i have not seen them really talking to each other. they are basically just after once talking to

the reporters. and as i have spoken to them, they even say they don't meet each other a privately a because of this reason. so on the, there are some very in a group together. so it seems very, very slow on this. and currently there have been a discussions about their, this 100000, the soldiers which the u. s. and europe has been talking about and today. and yesterday, russian ambassador, he had his press conference here, and he was answering this to direct orders that he has no idea where this number is coming from. so they really don't have this kind of dialogue to get, or at least here on is it really an ice, essentially, alexander, i'm glad that lincoln brought up this number thing, you know, 100140 pound whatever the 100000 troops. and they're talking about that are deep inside and brush it on the border of ukraine. however,

it's never spoken about how the ukranian army has 125000 troops on the line of contact of the don bass. that is never mentioned there. ok? russia is not telling you the creating an army what it should do inside of ukraine . why would it it's ukraine? but the western world seems to feel it has the right to tell russia what to do with its military within its own borders. alexander? yeah, well you know, as we have been talking 11 thing i remember it was back in, i think 2012, the hillary clinton who was the secretary of state back then she actually commented on the original comic union. specifically saying, look, the key for states is to ensure that it doesn't expand, especially doesn't survive or something along those lines. you know, the actually, the 2 steps to ensure that happens to ensure that you train doesn't join, which would have been a massive wind for russia. and ever since then, they're just kept going and trying to basically provoke russia into making mistakes

and making mistakes, which would then allow the west to sanction them. so it's interesting to know, for example, how many lethal weapons have been provided to ukraine over the last you know, months, for example, even, you know, the u. k. has done so already despite the fact that the u. k is struggling economically following the panoramic. i'm sure the mom would have been wise is spent inside the country in the u. k, rather than in the grade book. fine. but the point is, even when russia is talking about lessening the engagement of western powers. will ukraine even during the point, has continues to provide lethal 8. so you crane, i'm again imagine if russia contin to do that with iran, for example, lisa late provide a to, to run, you know, you can imagine what kind of response there will be. so the point is, i think there are different interest among the western countries where we spoke about, i think, for the united states, it's all about keeping russia down was i think it was in europe. i think there are certain circles who do want to have a better relationship with russia,

but unfortunately for now, united states because of that 100, not a given the, the legacy of the cold war is just that it gets down to the following. for me is that russia, the, in the lives of western western leads, they lost the cold war and there are consequences for losing. and you have no right to be treated as an equal. i mean, it gets down to that in my opinion. and was, you know, the kind of demon is ation of russia and russians through popular culture, russia gay didn't help much. ok. it just, it, there's no recognition of legitimate rights and that's why we have this quote unquote crisis. go ahead one or one of the things you know, that it's really hard to pick up when they states are hard to pick up on any national group when any religious group or anything without some kind of pushback, except when it comes to russian russians just as it's a free for all, you know, but you can find even the rest of the because kind of all they can find it. but

they sort of give the big speeches in congress. we need to sanctions before anything happened, a sentence on russia. you know, it's an engine just, you know, everybody, it cost them nothing they, they should, they show. but i mean, that's a do over the sedation from what i understand. i say, you know, chinese president is much stronger united economically, politically, whatever. so they, you know, they do not challenge china that much. they, and forget about so many other countries. you know, they gotta be, they would say something about it. you know, the whole thing, you know, that he says is big scandal with personality will go over. she said something with pride, german or racial racial, racial behaviors, or no of course, wasn't about to raise right away from there. but it was the russians. you can say anything, anything that goes. and you know that i since complain when i was,

when normal americans with people complain, they slammed to be put on boards. you know, brain was my last into the brand was right. and then i'm given legitimacy. so just any other sort of culture given legitimacy, but not well, that's the unfortunate of united states and probably in, well, i can well imagine the names you can call. i know what i've been called lincoln, let me go back to you in new york, you know, doing the diplomatic beat. do you have a sense that the, there a diplomatic solution, a diplomatic understanding is in the air, or is it really way beyond that? it's going to be individual leaders and countries that aside the outcome of this go ahead. so here in a couple months, basically at rest like what is going on in the capital in washington and moscow weekend here all the time that they are open to a dialogue that they want to talk to each other in their speech. it's becoming

a clear shot and, but i have to say that in the middle of february, we are going to have a meeting on agreement. it's going to be a regular yearly meeting. it's actually during the russian president link of what we're really rapidly running out of time. but don't you think that debate on men's should have happened months ago and not that later this month. anyway, that's all the time we have want to thank my guest, new york, boston and in lin lancaster, i want to thank our viewers for watching is here to see you next time. remember ah ah ah, humanity always wants the impossible. they 1st day a say to the government, police probably you government b. they say similar to any or please build customize my private life wont touch my

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ah, 6 children are killed amid heavy fighting in northwest syria. well, president biden pails, the skill and bravery of american commanders, claiming they've killed the leader of islamic state at the same time in the same location here. just come out and say this expect us to to believe it. without you showing a shred of evidence that it's actually true. the state department's spokespersons grille by journalists after refusing to provide any evidence for us claims rushers repairing a false flag attack is a pretext to invasion of youth. right. the west, the media take a but beijing with a host of accusations because major powers.