ah or can to sophie go visionaries may so if you shepherd not say an organ transplant can save a life, but at least 20 people die. ha, waiting for a new heart or liver. can science put an end to this long waiting list? i talked to dr. re romito nick, how would she stem cell biologists and professor o genetics at stanford university. doctor, erica woochie stem cell biology professor of genetics at stanford university. great to have you with us today. thank you so much. thank you for having me. i. so i want to start from the following up. the camera is a monster as creature from greek mythology. i personally associate with something

or a task evil. yet in modern microbiology genetics, it's used for something that can potentially be used to save human lives. isn't a choice of words somewhat misleading in this regard? can there be like a better deal? do you agree? yes, i do agree. yeah. many people, you know, just imagine when i say i better know most certain greek mythology, you know, consisting of, you know, based upon society, most lions heads, no sheep body and snake tail. so that's, that gives us many people very about impression i was, i mean, that actually is very useful. just so i mean, biology is just a mix of 2 different levels of 2 different

genetic or is it just a mix? so 1st of 2 different identity, different says so come air research is needed in order to basically grow human organs inside animals for transplants. but an animal, beta chamber a pick already has a heart. so how do you make good have a human one instead? yeah, if we just mix human stem cells and early embryo, we just make a hold of issues. so, so the mix of both to my, since day one i introduce is to use a host animal that has been genetically modified so that this has about cannot fall of one. no, no, it was all those genesis disabled. and so when they go up and then make a came into only schuman, i, p s, you know,

some sort of the live assess, can make a hot postal service to not. so, although it's basically a mixture, you know, 2 different cell types of origins. but in hot should be home and totally made up of like human sensor the lab says, so or the, you know, the body is mixture human an added bonus test, but hawk is only from the human stem cells. that is the trick that i introduce. right? so basically when jack, the embryo was cells for a human patient, and then the heart grows and is transplanted back into the patients body. the what if and it's likely the patient has really bad, hard tonight, like hard is, is for 10 generations back. is this station stuck with a bad genetics, or can that be fixed while growing the new heart?

ideally, you know, we got to close the quarter crisper. now it is still too easy to genetically correct to genetic the effect of the special has. so after collecting the senator there at the level of fast themselves, then we can go and put it back to the patient as a patient to be, you know, norma because you know, the genetic that has been fixed by, you know, genetic engineer. oh, trying to res, we may be able to simply transfer this newly created data hot to the patient because of, you know, some diseases it takes time to develop a phenotype symptoms. so you might have just delaying the process of the disease depending on this piece. and patient's condition, you know, the figure out is, is it possible theoretically, at least to grow several oregon's at the same time in the same animal?

yes, that's posted. we have recently found a way to do that and not just one single organ. but basically we may be able to make up similar, you know, an internal for one and that is also a possible approach. why do we need host animals to cro? oregon's can't weigh it without having to use embryos just in your lap. i mean, scientists are able to grow, meet in the lab. why not? human, oregon are, you know, both so many different types such as are the sounds, broad, nervous love, you know, so many other components are required. and also it has a 3 d dimension. ah, 1st not quite got to make those

o guns in a test tube off in this room. so i came up with an idea of using animal body about developing unbalanced as a sort of fall while reactor is sort of still mission hold us here to see. so that's, that is how we sought it. ah, this spot project. you know, one of the reasons for this line of research is along the line of those waiting for available transference. so if we learn to grow hearts, people want in theory, have to wait for a heart transplant if they need one. but you know, what you're working on isn't an instant solution since it takes at least a year before an animal can grow to a full size and to be used as a donor. i mean, this means a person waiting for a transplant one probably last to this moment in the same all the same rate. how

could this time frame be reduced to more? right. so again, a ways to, you know, answer this question. so i will probably take about a year to generate a human funk. so transform to program, say in pigs in livestock house, ah, however, you know, some a, for example, hot or kidneys, people can survive. patients can survive over here, easy with artificial organs so that this is one approach. oh so we may be able to prepare. oh so oh guess if we you know pick her up.

oh guys. oh, different ha. type for, you know, why should a matching, we may be able to wait, sort of, you know, the order for the patience for different data types. this is one goes this, i think this is part of it. he thought the alternative is we may be able to generate that time, much to different people, you know, universal matching, 2 different types of people working on this. we could go over some sales. so with this approach, we may be able to prepare all the self organs, who are any people with different data types? yeah, so far growling human organs and peaks isn't really working. the anatomy is, might similar. but the species are too far apart,

biologically for this to work. you call it the zena genic carrier, a barrier that plan sells from one species from going in other. how do you go around that mariel? theoretically, of course, we do not have an answer to that. we're working on this challenge a phonetic lee. i think the major reason for this 0 barrier is c l, usually this us genetic, this us between human and animals because ah, although, ah, we, we vote from the sen cubby ancestor, you know, it's been many, many years since we 1st so some of the molecules important for the development of, say, embryo, ah, they could do for, you know, the receptor and who can be active, may not have good affinity to bind together because both, you know,

animal and mass diverse. no, you don't genetically. so one potential, of course is we have to probably schumer nice some of the molecules necessary for the development of a t p embryos to match with a human site kinds homeowner's. well, some of the things saw that it is the a course that we're taking. we're trying to know, humanise some more to choose the past. he's a question from a skeptic. i mean, do you think these xeno genetic barrier might be there for i don't know. good evolutionary reason. for instance, we don't mess with cross breeding cameras species. no, i don't know if this any bios can reason for that just by test. ah, we don't we have they both based on the maybe outside involvement. ah,

so up maybe be difficult. ah, just like our lives of us. they can grow very fast because they have been to preston. so all, you know, the men of the top easy. but i think this would be a way to do that. that is our touch, dr. nick, our children, take a short break right now when we're back. we'll continue talking to dr. iran meet soon back. how would she stem cell biologists and professor of genetics at stanford university. stay with us. ah,

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for 20 percent of it comes from small gail mines. unicef figures confirm that in 2017 co than 40000 children, worked in cobalt mining in the republic to earn a living and paying for schooling. next time you use a fancy gadget like a smartphone camera laptop, and just remember that there's a chance it works. thanks to a child, how'd labor children like john michelle, henrietta and countless others like them. and we're back. what doctor we were me to like i was a stem cell biologist, professor of genetics at stanford university. dr. an echo which he, you know,

if years back another team of scientists, they announced that they're making human monkey cameras as a human monkey came era, going to have more chances of successfully growing an oregon. yes, i think so we, we also have some preliminary data. as i said, i think this 0 area is very much, ah, based on the yeah. is that a distance genetic distance between the 2 species? and obviously non human premise. they're much closer in terms of 5 when you study distance. so, i'm pretty sure that, you know, if we try to generally schuman organs in non human crime, is the monkeys, it would work much better than the train, a human and paste. but it has some problems, you know, that isn't the ethical issues. oh no, no human primary focus center go slower. and it may take more than a year,

maybe for 5 years to get, you know, certain size it to the certain size. you know, so i don't worry about, you know, says you know, the fiction of something now viruses so you know, yes or no monkeys have because it's so close, they may indeed affect us. so the, some, i think, you know, there are many issues with my case, but it's not like using picks or sheep. they are very much more difficult to do some developmental biology. you know, today to make kind of something, you know, at least we know that the size of an animal is crucial. but what about ad? there are genetic factors, for instance,

picks grow age and die sooner than humans. is there a race that are hard grounding to pick well where are faster than a human heart, for instance? now that's another interesting point. now. so we have other interesting data using roden starting from the studies that is when we generate rock pancreas in mass, all different different species that rock is 10 times bigger than mass. but when we generated crescent mass, the size of a mouse size. so somehow, the owner of the size of the wind is determined by the environment now by defense making a so we also tried ariba experiment. we tried to separate mouse pancreas in russ. and then we followed

huge rugs size ha mas congress. so again, you know, these experiments suggest that you know, the size of the whole room is determined not by the 1st, but the in one. so if it is too big matter difficult, but you know, if the fires is mr. not too big was transplanted. i think you said the cold i was determined by the environment. so, you know, that's what we said. you know, i don't know if he read it, but there is this manslow popular old russian novel. the heart of a dog were a dr. transplants human order in oregon into a dog which dang, rosen to human, but keeps a lot of dogs habits like chasing cats and such. it sounds silly, but in the same like sy, fy way will and monkey grown organ inside me make me behave more like

a monkey. even a little bit, maybe. wow. well, if you transplant, say, monkey, said brain to you 1st. and then you may get some behavior monkeys, a monkey that clunky monkeys have pursued. that's something that we do not know, but i do not think, you know, trans translation of you know, monkey, i know a lot of your heart generated a monkeys. well, you know, change, you know. ok. ok. ok, you know, thinking by that so you know, i need to say it's to your own heart. it's not monkey hot. we're transplanting with there just to make it within monkey. but not that i think that makes

a difference. one organ theoretically could be grown this way. liver high pancreas . what else can a brain you worked out using this method? yeah, we have this a role that we're not trying to create a just the between mom that we have, you know, have made out. in this case, rob brain, mouse and mouse playing rock. they do us. this is the old as we tested. the basic principle of trying to say ok, i think any, you know, trust transplant grogan's tissues says we can, we can use, you know, those that it in picks or not of us. it has to be trusted. entrepreneur branch has not has to get transplanted. i know it took you 10 years to get the

approval to do whatever you doing the current research. how long before this technology can be fully implemented? patients were like a century. ok, how much good are your predictions? maybe 5 to 10 years. then the deposit or an experimental basis, hopefully within 5 years, if you want to bring it to the clinic, we have to do a lot of safety. you know, studies many other studies are necessary before actually bringing this to the clinic. so i will say, hopefully within 10 years, we're able to use this whole consider it, i was in the chron, you know, the health benefits, they appear to the enormous. however, really, the whole thing is, it's a little gory. to create an animal that can grow heart 1st, then you put

a human heart in that animal and then you cut the heart out. i mean, poor animal, right. how do you deal with these kinds of concerns? i, i'd say ethical concerns. i know your research is government approved and is monitored by ethics commissions and all of that. but personally, do you have reservations about this? i mean i'm, this is the, the whole methodology thing. yeah, of course, you know, i like i saw, i feel sorry for them. but, you know, the other hand, i see patients, you know, dying the waiting for donna organs. and if you think we're certainly fine, maybe billions of peace for us to our hoot. and so what we need probably is pigs in the auto fall clouds to help those patients and, and,

and stay sell them paid in. so you know, this, i know this is not a perfect solution for the treatment to pull them. peter patience. no, no, we need to help. oh, so patients and since we are eating many, many pigs. i think for this. yeah, i mean, i agree cuz we'd, we'd baker and we'd pick lights. but what does the fact that we foreign picks justify the use of their embryos like that? i think it's justified. you know? yeah, another concern is that the human cells in an animal can stray beyond the targeted organs into the animals brain and then create some form of consciousness. is this even possible? i don't, at this moment, all of this a contribution of human services very small. so some likely, but as a scientist, i can't say it would never happen. so ah, what i'm,

what we're trying to do is we have already generated. i p assess human like yourselves from outside yourself. that cannot differentiate into brain cells. who are jam says. so there's no chance of having those r i p a satellite human sensor delay human cells in the brain. ok, animals. so dentist, i think a very clear to listen to this as to con concern. you know the team that announced their experiments on monkey human came marriage a little while back. they said that they did the research in china to avoid legal complications. let's just wondering are government regulations around the world making kind of research difficult in general? so difficult question because you know, i could not do this kind of research in japan years ago. i moved to stifle

this the same thing i moved to the country. well, this kind of research is awesome. so i, i think, you know, we need a international guideline for this type of research. who are many other researchers that probably require some sort of, you know, restrictions. so in the we have international society of stem cell research and they recently revised the ethical guidelines to do this credit for research. so i think the whole pre, you know, for the funding agencies or just a like a major science. so, you know, many journals there. so they should require the, you know, proof of the approval by, you know, i'll be

a committee of that scientist did that experiments. otherwise they shouldn't accept. i grant proposal for public 18 of the papers. this could be a good thing for sent to, you know, oh, so some odd, problematic is security risk to collection. thank you very much for this talk. it was informative. well, will show the best of luck with your research. let's see where it can bring as and hopefully can really help humans suffer less not stain lines for human organs and find some sort of medical guidelines we're animals don't suffer that much, but anyways, it's been too interesting talking to you. thanks a lot for your time. thank you so much for letting me take care. bye bye bye.

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