thank you, it's a pleasure to be off. now we are recording this conversation after a very short, that's very important visit to china. i think it was his 30 personal meeting, but she didn't thing, but it came in the context of very limited international channel that he's you over the last 2 years. and i think as far as the economy is concerned, the whole visit was intended to underscore the significance of relationship in beijing. i wonder how was it perceived on your side? how was it taken in china? president putin made a very swift trip to try out. we would call it a 9 hour out trip, but it was a very successful trip, as we see it. not only the 2 countries issued a statement on how they look at the whoa, they see the world is but also for both countries have signed

15 major contracts. and that was a great achievement. it actually shows the solidarity between the 2 countries and also the neutral trust. the 2 leaders are one. i think all those positive outcomes are just primarily by the russians and the chinese themselves. but if we look at western media reports, one of the most common terms used is defiance. moscow and beijing standing shoulder to shoulder. and i defined all the way to what extent does this relationship depend on outside factors? if it weren't for the efforts to reassert itself, do you think this sympathy this mutual attraction would have been there? i would put it this way. there is too much propaganda going all, all the western media. it's just, it's

a shame why we're going back into this old code wall state. and as i've written, the commented different occasions, i say say that a better tomorrow is not going to be achieved by the us trying to contain china or russia. or by splitting the world into 2 competing camps. it's not right. if anybody is trying to do that, i think they are on the wrong side of history. the u. s. president joe biden said after that meeting that it really didn't change anything in the relationship between the 2 great powers, meaning russia and china, that there was absolutely nothing new there. and you mentioned that it was a fairly short trip on the trip. i mean, these are all ubiquitous and line communication when you can,

so all the problems online. is there any relevance, any additional factor that the personnel exchanges can contribute? well, i believe personal contact is always very important. yes, we can always talk. leaders of different countries can always talk online, but a person that actually means a lot the same thing with the french president going to moscow to meet a president. right. he could have done it online, but a personal visit makes a lot of difference. so i think it's quite important between china and russia to have leaders to meet each other physically. so that's, that's something quite different. all right, i don't want that. press too much on that, but when i understand and i agree with you that it means something and or it means

a lot, but i can't quite verbalize exactly what can it contribute. could you be more specific? what do you think is there that could be brought to the negotiating table when the 2 leaders are sitting across one another? i think the visits of mr. booting itself, it has come off implications. first and foremost, i think it shows russia's support for china or i'm his personal presence in beijing means a lot to charter on the back of the west. the so called west having a boy cut all the winter olympics in marshall voice because that place yeah, that's right. yes. the country leaders of the government officials didn't appear. so that actually shows russia's support, which means a lot,

not only to chinese leadership but also to the people of china. so that's quite important. and 2nd, i believe there has been a quite a fruitful discussion between the 2 leaders in person and was the issue of contact with racial means, which means that the 2 countries have a lot in common in terms of understanding lot of the real problems of today's world and where is the world heavy and how to solve all the dispute? why it is important that we should do look at the united nation as the venue to solve all the problems. mr. why elaine jackson, i mentioned this unique moment in the bilateral history of synergy, when a rush in china can truly trust each other enough to stand back to back with russia

dealing with problems on is western plan. china being trained more to south pacific without them having to invest in defending against one another. and i'm wondering if that's an actual outcome of the historic relationship or is it more to the personal relationship and personal report between the 2 leaders? do you think it can last beyond vladimir putin and she's in pain where i think it's more of a result of that the world is having a moment because somehow i think we're heading to the wrong direction. the whole world is heading towards the wrong direction with the fear because fear can make people irrational. and that's not good. we have to come back to the basics

because after all, we all have to survive and we all expect to survive in a peaceful environment. and why we're having all these disputes, upheavals, and even the fabricated potential for us, of one country invading another. there isn't anything going on like this from what i read in the media. russia has never said it's going to invite you crying. it's all being fabricated. it's all being fabricated, and you mentioned that we are being overtaken by here, which i would suggest is being intentionally through western media industry. and what do you think that a fear is after and what our leaders in the west the trainer i think,

is basically the u. s. is the fear of losing control of the world that they believe they control. but as i said, the only thing that never gets changed is changing itself. we're living in a changing environment forever. and yes, china is coming up as a, as an emerging power. but in terms of g, d, p per capita, china is jude lagging behind. just got a long way to go with this kind of fun to come from. china is not expressing itself or having this willingness to leave the world to the china is still trying to learn from others and trying to do business with everybody, particularly with russia, with you. it's not a host how this is something that the whole world needs to understand. china

throw up is history. never has this experience of colonization. never has the experience of trying to bully others. always try to make friends with people and trying to do business with everybody. and this is what i would say that unnecessary figure. i find this whole idea of one nation leading the world quite problematic on the philosophical point of view. it's as if one nation please, the rise of god because from my perspective, even in the most glorious times of the united states, it never actually ruled the world and never had the capacity of controlling everything. it's more like, i guess other countries complying with some of its emissions or a commanding tendencies. do you think? do you think this whole idea of one nation being able to provide leadership

for the whole planet? do you think it was ever implemented in reality it well, they tried it and it's not going to it's not going to be successful actually in the recent in last years about our discussion club and you can buy the u. s. strategist for mr. mayer joshua mayer's, i'm as made, made it very clear. and it was a very good remark. i believe people should remember. what he said was that after the co, the u. s. became the only superpower on what it did. it's policy, it stated, it was for you to expand east and for the natal to expand eastward as well over all to the doorstep on russia. not only

that, they want to change the regime a russia same thing applied to the east, that engagement, the engagement approach, which china was implemented with an ultimate objective to seek a regime change in china to the problem we're having is that none of these 2 missions got accomplished, they failed. and this is why we have this problem because they believe they can change the world by changing the leadership of these 2 countries. believe that everything is possible and that you can indeed it not only install reviews, but make those regimes work in for in culture that you have very little to very limited knowledge about. does it come from the lack of knowledge or is it

something peculiar to the american mentality that generally makes them believe in dan bill if you bring that to the world to the rest of the world because it's a very high order. i mean, i mean, the russian and this, even with my very limited knowledge of the world history, it's a kind of ambition that one should be afraid of rather than the rushing toward to well, that's exactly like what you said. i think it's, it's the rational, it is totally irrational, and i hope so no later, the american, all american friends come to the realization that this is not awesome. and this is not right. and if they keep going all on that pass, they will be definitely on the wrong side of history. but the wrong we have to take a very short break right now, but we will get back and just stay tuned. ah,

we didn't die, drink shaped 10 percent of those with things we dared to ask in algorithm. so neural networks have been following us everywhere. we look online because our relationships are what matters most us. that's how we find meaning and how we make sense of our place in the silicon valley. see, don't mention in that slick presentations. however, all the ghost workers who train the self, well,

humans are involved in every step of the process when you're using anything online . what we're sold, as is miracle automation, behind your screen, it's available workforce that feeds algorithms for next to nothing. on a very good day, i could do $5.00. now. a really bad day. i can, you can use workers are invisible by design. it's about labor costs, but it's also about creating layers of lessening responsibility between those who solicit this kind of work and need it. and those who do it a welcome back to well, the 4th nelson, one wise chairman of the highest center for green pack and international studies.

mister one before the break. we were, we touched upon this very cordial relationship, most currently enjoys been asian, but russia, a russian diplomacy can also have a very stubborn, very direct, i would say, very uncompromising style as has been evidence recently in public exchanges between moscow and washington. and i think the chinese diplomacy is, wow, has changed it style of communication with the americans. and i think both the russians and the chinese are trying to give the americans a taste of their own medicine sort of to approach americans in the same way. americans are used to approaching the world, this very bare knuckle style. do you think that with or do you think that would make the americans listen? i think at least that it shows the americans that time has changed, that they should be realistic as well. they should be realistic it's,

it's not that they can teach people what they should do and how they should behave. this is something that it's hard time. i think it's 5 time the world wake up to see what's happening around us today. one of that is that i've seen suggested by russian analyst just one positive outcome of such tough talk is be thinking right, realisation in the west, that the disagreements that exist between russia say the united states, have a system make fundamental reasons. rather than being just, you know, putting, being at york and being disruptive for the sake of losing his own ego, you know, suddenly slowly but suddenly there, when the west is realizing that there is something structural,

there is something that may be discussed. for example, the basic principles of security in you're relying on your per gnostic challenge. do you think those discussions will evaluate in something substantial or it will be, you know, they talk for the sake of talks as a means of simply biding time with the ho russia and europe have come to realize that it's time to the security of a region and by and large, the whole world needs to be discussed of all stakeholders, instead of just one country, or all the shots telling, telling us where, where and how security is going to be. so for example, i think it's, it's quite apparent that the security in europe needs to be discussed

between russia and of europe and all the leading european countries. and this is exactly why we see the french and the germans leaders and some other country leaders are initiating the talks with russia, which is a very positive step. i think it's not that your insecurity is going to be decided by the u. s. this is wrong, the same thing applies to asia. why don't we clean? so i would say care that their western media from care is that if the united states or europe in needs to come to russia, pressure and sit down to negotiate the basic security principles. that it will in bold in china to be more proactive in this part. of the world, do you think there's a potential there? i'm sure china is watching the developments, but it,

is it learning and the lessons from what it sees? where i think to china and the chinese people, it's a wakeup poll. actually give them what's going on. europe, a ukraine, and it's also a learning curve. for most people in china, that won't piece is not something you can take it for granted. there are always something happening every now and then. and so if we want to live in a peaceful environment, we also need to do something as well instead of just sitting here and b, oh, what is going to be? this is wrong. now you mentioned the issue here, crane and how the station develop their 1st, at least from the russian point of view. the west was very active in supporting the

opposition. then they essentially supported who to talk. now they're actively and hopefully supplying the crane with offensive weapons. i know that the issue of taiwan is highly sensitive for china and you've been pretty straightforward. the west also allows itself to use that issue for its own geo political or tactical maneuvering. do you think there is a fear or there is a risk rather of events in taiwan taking on a crane scenario? me being very, very diplomatic. no, i think it's quite a different case. but as you know, the whole world has recognized that there is only one in this world, and part one is part of china. so this is a fundamental base of discussion. and for any country, including the western,

interfere into the internal, this is not something that china what color it, john has already made very strong statement that any interference is not going to be entertained or tolerated. so discussions of a piece or re unification is always on the top of the agenda or something. which is a moment. i would say it's quite different from what's happening. you credit mister one, you know that we leave in the world way international law could be in compliance with international demand for some countries and absolutely going to work for some others. and the united states, as well as some of the other partners, have a lot of experience of using lisa tactics supporting a position supporting, you know, part is on a rabble fighters, for example,

one of the narrative see developing in west media right now is that wasn't our support part is a movement in ukraine so that you know, video and he's with free access to weapons would be attacking and you know, whoever is he's there in the neighborhood. i you, i'm to trusting too much in sort of clean ways of dealing with this issue. i mean, if you apply this to the case of taiwan that i would continue to tell you that there is this a session all which is the government, the constitutional rights to seek to military measures in case of emergency, if there is anything happening that goes beyond the limit all the red

line that china will take military action that the termination has been expressed very clearly. our government is the one. if we come back to the european diplomatic theater, there are some players like france, which you mentioned already. turkey who are offering themselves as mediators between russia and the united states. and i know that for example, pakistan's prime minister in hon also suggest the similar role for his country in somewhat tension, a relationship between beijing and washington. do you think mediation would be helpful in such cases? i do think it's primarily for the great powers to settle their differences among themselves. well, all these initiatives only show that the world the rest of the countries are getting worried. ready which is a good thing that people do realize it's not right,

that 2 countries are not friendly with each other. so, but to solve the problems, 2 countries will have to come together, sit down and talk. that'll be if i'm not mistaken, i think it would agree with me that the, by the administration, i made a strategic decision to frame those differences between itself and rushing china in terms of, you know, the central struggle between democracies and a talk crisis. and while i don't want to waste time on discussing those labels, i think it's pretty apparent that we leave at a time when the very nature of governance is changing before our eyes. and many the so called democratic countries have to take pretty autocratic, if not to tell terry in measures. how do you see this democracy versus

a talk versus discourse, let's say in 20 or 30 years from now? i think the pen demik has given us a good lesson and a with what's going on around the world. i'm not more proceed at all. i still believe that democracy, the western democracy that has been practiced so many countries, is not a bad system at all. but it's a very delicate system, and it's so vulnerable, and it's very vulnerable. in terms of any crisis coming. they don't perform well. and i would not try to divide the world more, chris's popish every time she needs to find its own

system that shoot that suit. it's only russia calls itself as a democracy as well. and china also considers itself as a democracy. it's just that democracy can take different forms. the french democracy is different from the british democracy. a systems are quite different. so it's, it's, it's a word, it's just a word, but you cannot use this word to apply generally. but on some level, you can also measure if you look at the number of people on this condition whose lives were improve, let's say in china, it's kim and you know, ultimately serving the people. democracy is for the people and by the people. but it looks like in the west, it's applied to very narrowly to specific methods that certain leads i used to

rather than genuinely trying to produce some verifiable numbers of how life of that population have changed. i agree with you on that, you know, by the end of the day, it's the people that has to say, if the people are i happy their lives are improved. this is what we're here. all right, this is what every government's objectives are. it's, i can't imagine that a government supply is dependent on what principle it hope it's actually the result we're looking at. the result of the result is that people are happy living. stan does not improve that. and that's what matters with a wong. and that seems like a good, a good measure. you determine what side of history any given country happens to be all. thank you very much where to read pleasure talking to you. thank you. thank

you. it's a real pleasure and thank you for watching. hope to see you again. same place, same time, all the part. ah. with me. ah. join me every 1st on the alex simon. sure. i'll be speaking to guess on the world politics sport. business. i'm sure business. i'll see you then mediterranean is the world's most efficient sea, unsustainable exploitation of its fish dogs,

which maureen biodiversity undergoing threat a lesson the getting a quote on sure you understand this is because our system can continue to pull the cookie careful for a 2nd. want to put our lives despite the promise is to end over fishing by 2020. the situation is changing to slow. well, i'm very disappointed with that they've basically not in public interests. they also do not in the midst of interest of the fishes, the only interest of the fisheries on the face of the only ones in danger. the fishermen also at risk of losing or picking them up some group where they get to them about that. i'm a global, i guess it might be real. she's in the bosom viewership with

top it like this. our here on our tea, russia slams hysteria over its alleged plans to invade ukraine. as western officials urge that it is understood, leave the country. it's all amid media claims that an attack is days away. ah, tear gas and dozens arrested as french police come down on so called freedom convoy protestors against all the covert mandates, with checkpoints, and ahmed vehicles and central paris. our correspondent is right in the thick of it . as you can see, the t gas isn't coming towards us now. launched by the police just behind it. they were trying.