a child at the time and the resources to address other challenges instead of defending against one another. it's a historically identity configuration can, is last discussed that now joined by now, one was chairman of the show hi center for impact and international studies. this one is great to see great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you. thank you. it's a pleasure to be all. now we are recording this conversation after a very short, very important visit to china. i think it was his 38th personal meeting, but she didn't thing, but it came in a context of very limited international travel that keeps you over the last 2 years . and i think as far as the crime is concerned, the whole visit was intended to underscore the significance of relationship with beijing. i wonder how was it perceived on your side? how was it taken in china?

president putin made a very swift trip to try out. we would call it a 9 hour a trip, but it was a very successful trip, as we see it. not only the 2 countries issued a statement on how they look at the whoa, they see the world. but also both countries have signed 15 major contracts, and that was a great achievement. it actually shows the solidarity between the 2 countries and also the neutral trust, the 2 leaders. first of all, i think all those positive outcomes are just primarily by the russians and the chinese themselves. but if we look at western media reports, one of the most common terms used is defiance. moscow and beijing and the shoulder

to shoulder. and i define all the way to what extent does this relationship depend on outside factors? if it weren't for the efforts to reassert itself, do you think the sympathy is mutual attraction would have been there? i would put it this way. there is too much propaganda going all out, all the western media. it's a shame why we're going back into this old code wall state. and as i've written the common 2 different occasions, i say say that a better tomorrow is not going to be achieved by the us trying to contain china or russia. or by splitting the world into 2 competing camps. it's not right. if anybody is trying to do that,

i think they are on the wrong side of history. the u. s. president joe biden said after that meeting that it really didn't change anything in the relationship with the q re power is meaning russia and china that there was absolutely nothing new there. and you mentioned that it was a fairly short trip on the trip. and then these are all ubiquitous on the line communication when you can. so all the problems online. is there any relevance, any additional factor that the personnel exchanges can contribute? i believe personal contact is always very important. yes we, we can always talk leaders of different countries can always talk online, but a person that actually means a lot the same thing with the french president going to moscow to meet

a president. right. he could have done it online, but a personal visit makes a lot of difference. so i think it's quite important between china and russia to have leaders to meet each other physically so that that's something quite different. i don't want that pressed too much on that, but when i understand and i agree with you that it means something and or it means a lot, but i can't quite verbalize exactly what can it contribute? could you be more specific? what do you think is there that could be brought to the negotiating table when the 2 meters are sitting across one another? i think the, the, the visits of mr. booting itself, it has come off implications. first and foremost, i think it shows russia's support or china or

his personal presence in beijing means a lot to charter on the back of the west. the so called west having a boy cut all the winter olympics in marshall boy, because that's right. that's right. about their country leaders of the government officials didn't appear so that actually shows russia's support, which means a lot not only to chinese leadership but also to the people of china. so that's quite important. and secondly, i believe there has been a quite a fruitful discussion between the 2 leaders in person and was the issuance of a joint declaration means, which means that the 2 countries have a lot in common in terms of understanding what are the real problems of today's

world and where is the world heading and how to solve all the dispute? why it is important that we should do look at the united nation as the venue to solve all the problems. and actually, i mentioned this unique moment in the bilateral history of synergy when russia in china can truly trust each other enough to stand back to back with russia dealing with problems on its western plan. china being trained more to south pacific without them having to invest in defending against one another. and i'm wondering if that's an actual outcome of the historic relationship or is it you more to the personal relationship and personal report between the 2 leaders? do you think it can last beyond live in and she didn't thing where i think it's

more of a result of pressures that the world is having a moment. because somehow i think we're heading to the wrong direction. the whole world is heading towards the wrong direction. with the fear, because fear can make people irrational, and that's not good. we have to come back to the basics because after all, we all have to survive. and we all expect to survive in a peaceful environment. and why we're having all these disputes, upheavals, and even the fabricated potential for us, of one country invading another. there isn't anything going like this from what i've read in the media. russia has never said it's going to invade you crying. it's all being fabricated. it's all being fabricated,

and you mentioned that to me and being overtaken by here, which i would suggest is being intentionally through western media industry. and what do you think that fear is actor and what our leaders in the west the trainer i think, is basically the us. it's their fear of losing control of the world that they believe they control. but as i said, the only thing that never gets changed is changing itself. we're living in a changing environment forever. and yes, china is coming up as a, as an emerging power. but in terms of g, d, p per capita,

china is to lagging behind. just got a long way to go with us. this china to come from china is not expressing itself or having this willingness to leave. the world to the china is still trying to learn from others and trying to do business with everybody, particularly with russia, with it's not a host nation, and this is something that the whole world needs to understand. china throw up is history never has this experience of colonization. never has this experience of trying to bully others. always try to make friends with people and trying to do business with everybody. and, and this is what i would say that unnecessary figure. i find this whole idea of one nation leading the world quite problematic on

a philosophical point of views as if one nation please the rights of god. because from my perspective, even in the most glorious times of the united states, it never actually ruled the world. and never had the capacity of controlling everything. it's more like, i guess, other countries complying with some of its admissions or a commanding tendencies. do you think it, do you think this whole idea of one nation being able to provide leadership for the whole planet? do you think it was ever implemented in reality it well, they tried and it's not going to, it's not going to be successful actually in the recent, in last years about our discussion club and you convey the u. s. strategist for mr. mia, john, a as made, made it very clear. and it was

a very good remark. i believe people should remember what he said was that after the co, the u. s. became the only super power on what it did. it's policy, it stated policy was for you to expand east and for the natal to expand eastward as well over onto the doorstep on russia. not only that, they want to change the regime, a russia same thing applied to the east. that engagement, that engagement approach, which china was implemented with an ultimate objective to see a regime change in charlotte to the problem we're having is that none of these 2 missions got accomplished. they failed and this is why

we have this problem because they believe they can change the world. they can leave the world by changing the leadership of these 2 countries. believe that everything is possible and that you can indeed it not only install readings, but make those regimes work in foreign culture counters. if you have very little very limited knowledge about, does it come from a lack of knowledge or is it something peculiar to the american mentality that generally make them believe in their ability to bring that to the world to the rest of the world? because it's a high order, i mean, i mean, the russian and even with my very limited knowledge of the world history, it's a kind of ambition that one shouldn't be afraid or rather than the rushing towards you. well, that's exactly like what you said. i think it's, it's the rational,

it is totally irrational and i hope so no later, the american american friends will come to the realization that this is not possible. and this is not right. and if they keep going all on that path, they will be definitely on the wrong side of history. but the wrong we have to take a very short break right now, but we will go back and just station the me or join me every alex family show and i'll be speaking to guess in the world, the politic sport business. i'm show business. i'll see you then in i imagine showing in is the world's most over fish. see unsustainable exploitation of its fish dogs, which maureen biodiversity under great thread, a solution again,

a quote on sure you understand this is you cut our system in conclusion to pull the cookie careful from with just to pick in one super loose. despite the eas promises to end over fishing by 2020, the situation is changing too slowly. well, i'm very disappointed with basically not in public interest. the also to know in the interest of officially the only interest of the fisher robbie. the facial and the only ones in danger. the fishermen also at risk of losing or bugging them up someone before they get to them about that. i'm with the bubble thought i got them with

. mm hm. welcome back to. well, the part with nelson, one wise chairman of the highest censure for rain pack and international studies. mister one before the break. we were, we touched upon this very cordial relationship that moscow currently enjoys been beijing, but russia. russian diplomacy can also have a very stubborn, very direct, i would say, very uncompromising style as has been evidence recently in public exchanges between the moscow and washington. and i think the chinese diplomacy as wow, if style of communication with the americans. and i think both the russians and the chinese are trying to give the americans a taste of their own medicine sort of to approach americans in the same way

americans are used to approaching the world, this very bare knuckle style. do you think that would work? do you think that would make the americans listen? i think at least and it shows the americans that time has changed, that they should be realistic as well. they should be realistic it's. it's not that they can teach people what they should do and how they should behave. this is something that it's hard time. i think it's 5 time the world wake up to see what's happening around us today. one of that is that i've seen suggested by russian analyst just one positive outcome of such tough talk is be thinking right, realisation in the west that the disagreements that exist between russia say the

united states have a systemic fundamental reasons. rather than being just, you know, putting, being at york and being disruptive for the sake of pleasing, his own ego, you know, suddenly slowly but suddenly there, when the west is realizing that there is something structural, there is something that may be discussed. for example, the basic principles of security in you're relying on your pro gnostic challenge. do you think those discussions will evaluate in something substantial or it will be, you know, they talk for the sake of talks as a means of simply biding time with the ho russia and to europe. i've come to realize that it's time that the security of a region and by and large,

the whole world needs to be discussed of all stakeholders instead of just one country or all the shots telling, telling us where, where and how security is going to be. so for example, i think it's, it's quite apparent that the security in europe needs to be discussed between russia and of europe and all the leading european countries. alicia's, it was actually why we see the french and the german leaders or some other country leaders are initiating the talks with russia, which is a very positive step. i think it's not that european security is going to be decided by the u. s. this is wrong. the same thing applies to asia, one of the queen. so i would say care that there western media from care is that if

the united states or europe needs to come to russia, pressure and sit down to negotiate, you know, basic security principles that it will in bold in china to be more proactive in these part of the world, do you think there's a potential there? i'm sure china is watching the developments, but it, is it learning and the lessons from what it sees were i think the to china and the chinese people. it's a wakeup poll. actually give them what's going on in europe, a crane, and it's also a learning curve for most people in china, that world piece is not something you can take it for. granted. there are always something happening every now and then. and so if we want to live in a peaceful environment, we also need to do something as well instead of just sitting here and b, oh,

what the order is going to be. this is wrong. now you mentioned the issue of your crane and how the station develop their 1st, at least from the russian point of view. the west was very active in supporting the opposition. then they essentially supported who to talk. now they're actively and hopefully supplying the crane with offensive weapons. i know that the issue of taiwan is highly sensitive for china and you've been pretty straightforward. the west also allows itself to use that issue for its own dual political or tactical maneuvering. do you think there is a fear on there is a risk rather of events in taiwan taking on a ukraine scenario? me being very, very diplomatic. no, i think it's quite

a different case. but as you know, the whole world has recognized that there is only one child in this world, and part one is part of charlotte. so this is a fundamental base of discussion. and for any country including the west to interfere into the intel office, it's not something that china will tolerate. john has already made very strong statement that any interference is not going to be entertained or tolerated. so discussions of a piece for re unification is always on the top of the agenda. and that's something just a moment. i would say it's quite different from what's happening. you credit mr. one me, you know, that we leave in the world way international law could be in compliance with

international law would be demanded for some countries. and absolutely you can work for some others. and the united states, as well as some of the other partners, have a lot of experience of using lisa tactics supporting position, supporting, you know, part is on a rebel fighters, for example, one of the narrative see developing in west media right now is that wasn't our support part is a movement in ukraine so that you know, video and he's with free access to weapons would be attacking, you know, whoever is, is there in the neighborhood. i, you, i'm to trusting too much in sort of clean ways of dealing with this issue. well, if you apply this to the case of taiwan, i would continue to tell you that there is

a session law which is the government, the constitutional rights to seek to military measures in case of emergency, if there is anything happening that goes beyond the limit, all the red line is china. whoa, take military action that the termination has been expressed very clearly borrow government is the one. if we come back to the european diplomatic theater, there are some players like france, which you mentioned already. turkey who are offering themselves as mediators between russia and the united states. and i know that for example, pakistan's prime minister in hon also suggest this similar role for his country in somewhat tension relationship. it's been beijing and washington. do you think

mediation would be helpful in such cases? i do think it's primarily for the great powers to settle their differences among themselves. well, all these initiatives only show that the world, the rest of the countries are getting well. which is a good thing that people do realize that all right, the 2 countries are not friendly with each other. so to solve the problems, 2 countries were have to come together, sit down and talk. that'll be if i'm not mistaken. i think it would agree with me that the, by the administration, i made a strategic decision to frame those differences between itself and russia and china in terms of you know, this as a central struggle between democracies and a talker. and while i don't want to waste time on discussing those labels,

i think it's pretty apparent that we leave at a time when the very nature of governance is changing before our eyes. and many the so called democratic countries have to take pretty autocratic, if not to tell it to are in measures. how do you see this democracy versus a talk versus discourse, let's say in 20 or 30 years from now? i think them as giving us a good lesson and a with what's going on around the world. i'm not just want to see at all. i do believe that democracy, the western democracy that has been practiced so many countries is not a bad system at all. but it's a very delicate system, and it's so vulnerable and it's very vulnerable. in terms of any crisis coming,

they don't perform well. i would not try to divide the world. it walker says an accomplish every time she needs to find its own system that shoot that suits of russia, calls itself as a democracy as well. and china also considers itself as a democracy. it's just that democracy can take different forms. the french democracy is different from the british democracy. the systems are quite different . so it's, it's, it's a word, it's just a word, but you cannot use this word to apply. generally, on some level, you can also measure if you look at the number of people on this condition whose

lives were improved. let's say china is kim and you know, ultimately serving the people. democracy is for the people and by the people. but it looks like in the west it's applied very narrowly to specific methods that certain leads i used to rather than just genuinely trying to produce some verifiable numbers of how life of that populations have changed. yeah, i agree with you here on that. no. by the end of the day, it's the people that has to say, if the people are i happy their lives are a proved, this is what we're here, right? this is what every government's objectives are. it's, i can't imagine that a government survival is dependent on what principle it hope it's actually the

result we're looking at. the result of the result is that people are a happy living stand got improved and that's what matters with a wong. and that seems like a good stand there. i would measure you determine what side of history any given country happens to be all. thank you very much where to read and pleasure talking to you. thank you. thank you. it's a real pleasure and thank you for watching hope to see you again. same place, same time on a well the part ah with . mm hm. well, the panoramic no city,

no borders as emerge. we don't have a terribly, we don't have a vaccine. the whole world needs to be ready. people are judgment, come in, we can do better, we should be better. everyone is contributing each in their own way, but we also know that this crisis will not go on forever. the challenge is great. the response has been massive so many good people are helping us. it makes us feel very proud that we are in it together with ah

ah, russia loves his theory over it's a legit pond when say to you, pray, weston officials to that citizens to leave the country amid media claims that an attack is just days away. ah, pig on dawson's arrested out french police club down on the so called freedom convoy. protest is against pope mandate, but checkpoints and all the vehicles in central paris, all t reports right from the thick of it was you can see the tear gas. is it coming towards us now launched by the police just behind is they were trying to control the crowd. what do you do? what do you do.