worth american motives because they sometimes do believe the fakes they produce. and that means that their decision making is based on fakes, which is very, very, very, very dangerous. another explanation of course, is jerbill clinical. and i think it's more reliable. geopolitical explanation is that the united states are using this situation to mobilize the nato allies now to bring more weapons closer to the russian border, to arm ukraine. to introduce the new wrong and sexual sanctions on russia and to, to manage russia, which can use nuclear rebels against, for europeans or russia, by the way, never had plans of using nuclear weapons against anybody. while americans, we know that had dozens of plans of nuclear attacks on the soviet union, especially then they have a military superiority. will you say they don't plan julie, their nuclear missiles targeting london right now. and washington?

well, of course, a di targeting of nuclear missiles which was done actually and then on target anywhere can be targeted in a matter of seconds. of course, when it comes to lies amplified throughout the western media has been the fact that the nato leaders are saying that blood, emmy putin was lying. when he said genocide was occurring in the a circle, breakaway republics of ukraine. ah, which are the subject of the immense records and un security council resolution to 202. well, it depends on the or does national genocide. e for the western governments think that killing or a 10000 people is not a genocide than it is not. but that's exactly the figures, the kia regime killed more than $10000.00 on their own citizens. and we consider that to be genocide, of course,

that will never be recognized because all these carriers is attributed on russia aggression in east new crane. though there are not a single russian soldier. so for us it's clear. 04 west. i think it's also clear that it is not a genocide. how can democratic and free ukraine a provide a policy of genocide, but that's exactly what they're doing. but what we hear in nature media is that 14000 were killed by russian back and separative. it was the other way. what about vladimir putin role in all of this? i mean, is not the case that as you talk about eastern expansion of nato, as this perhaps being an excuse to pull weapons in the united states certainly is boring 1000. the soldiers in it was put in was president. when bulgaria, stoney latvia, lithuania remains to voc is renier began the 20 o 2 prague summit talks when albania cray should join in 20 or 9 mill. montenegro

2017 dot nasa dounia read. 2020. i mean, i don't think the problem here is the leadership of russia. vladimir putin is failing, the russian people as more and more countries are getting more nature soldiers, more weapons to attack the russian. people perhaps know that's what's happening. yes. really, when they're talking about aggressive russia, they forget not just about the expansion of nato. it's not the extension of the area of liberty is just the special area of american military presence. and it's on our borders, which was in protest against each such move. but russia was not even listen. i'm not to say that anyone that decided to hear russia. so we came to the red line and ask where russia is. no, not going to step back a bit. so no, russia wants the west to comply with at least nato and made

a rush and found an act offer in 1907, which was no troops, no nukes, no new, critical infrastructure, military infrastructure in his new europe. which of course was violated many, many, many times. and now russia says fence getting back to the way to the american forces should be and the response is don't, and i can create, they're not going to incent crane. no one is prepared to attack the friendly nation, the mother, a republic, ukraine. you know, both of my mother and, oh, my grandmothers were born in the green solutions, should i consider myself russian korean? you know, you can divide to much russia, ukraine, europe, people living with relatives and friends on both sides. and there'll be no such war . the only option for such war is actually for americans to order the key of regina,

which the control start the war against the republics or against rush, mas lensky denies, is under us control. and indeed, he has been criticizing reporting in nato nations or sewing panic. and you mentioned that your relationship to ukrainian had bridge. that was a ukrainian, i know you're relative molotov, known to grassroots activists all around the world. but you are also working for gorbachev isn't the point here that there's a whole elite in russian society that has misunderstood the motives of the west. i understand that the vladimir putin on the record, according to a former british ex nato secretary general, saying, am putin said, when are you going to invite us to join nato? did you want to be part of nato, the elite cinema in russia after 1991? definitely not. no. actually i think we'll put you on. was kidding at

a time when she was asking them because he knew the answer. now says there was no. it's not about the rights of every nation and to be admitted into nato. actually, i remember the 1991. he you mentioned rightly that i was working for gorbachev. and i was personally meeting james baker and douglas heard when to tie. i heard him with my own ears that they're not going to expand and nato an inch east of was germany. so why didn't you get him to write it down? any normal? i mean, you don't have to be tally randall bismark to understand that something like that is in need of a treaty to be signed public? no, absolutely. i. i would agree. yeah, i would agree on that, but it wasn't even bodily. no, not mine. i was not in the position to negotiate that i was there to listen to

speak. and there was gorbachev who i think sacrifice his own principles, shared by no one else in the world. a share in sacrifice the country due to those principles. ringback that there was a big mistake of gorbachev and them. yes, of course. she could also have sent you an agreement, but she had an ideal undivided europe, as well as gorbachev, as well with new european architecture, being with russia being bought of it, and nato becoming just one of the european institution. but now is the european security system. and of course, on some countries like russia are out of the system, the system cannot just a well, i understand that that. and around that time, mom at some russians went to see leaders in the bay, ging to say, maybe china went through all for the shock therapy that russia chose to inflict on his people. they were laughed out. we surprised by john june to the un security

council meeting as saying the china condemned the instability created. he didn't mention it by name. you be said the united states. as a cold war mentality, i don't know what that means for chinese support for russia's position, but certainly the people's republic. have they given one inch of territory that to nato powers, as russia has? no course not in this sense beach and his policies were more a national orient course channels or has a great strategic culture which dates back at least 5 millennia. and china used to be the really global power for most of those 5 millennial or a russia china relations? no, i think it was not very well understood. is the level of russia,

china relationship as of now it's more than an alliance. it's a very close relationship, and one i think, should read their declaration, signed by who johnson, when russian president visited and china at the opening ceremony olympic games. that is an amazing document. and you know, one was a chapter number one of the document. it wasn't democracy, it was on democracy saying that democracy is something people can name democracy. democracy is following that we owe their own people, not someone else, not following the will. for example, the seo state department, washington general, and standing actually the trust chinese that's at some point democratic countries which call themselves democratic but being not very sober in their decision making

. oftentimes ignoring the interest of their own people to the benefit all day. so i'll stop you there more from the deputy chairman of the russians they duma committee on international f. as after this greg with bringing the related every out the day. this is, i know everyone here with a, a

a with ah, ah, well 1st, once in all, in the dorm room of the can, it was over to one of the muddy my calendar. i'm all cheer now. the controls oh. 1 these people learn from their own experience, how vulnerable of business is to the bank. so he pushes my business over, the edge,

pushes me right to the edge, bankruptcy. now i realize we were good. this isn't just the back that may be involved in this is the concept. see firms. it is the lawyers. these people have got you want other stories and want kind of whistleblower. tell people's narrative have broken up. it lost their family homes. it is spectacularly devastating. people's lives. they have committed suicide, but left behind, nor the explicitly state that it was the constant intimidation and billing by bank officers that late them to i talked a spear, it's obscene. these people up nor saw. welcome back. i'm still here with yet, like megan of the deputy chairman of the russian say,

do my committee on international affairs, a member of the ruling united russia party. you know, joe biden says to the citizens of russia, you are not our enemy, and i do not believe you want a bloody destructive war against you. crane. do you think that the united states is making a push here to perhaps try and make an alliance with russia to attack the greatest enemy to a u. s. interests, which is of course, china, the most powerful economic country by purchasing power parity at the world at the moment. oh, 1st of all, if this is an attempt to send some alliance with russia, it's very unsuccessful. sometimes say, i wish i could read and he could read the american national security doctrine and nuclear, both churn defense review and other documents which underline american forum and defense policy. in these all, all documents, russia is named as the enemy and some of them as a think enemy number one. so,

no, that contradicts many things. you read, they were not the enemy of the russian people. why the list of only the titles of, of bills, laws at which we're introducing sanctions against russia for whatever is $48.00 pages long and americans are going to add to those $48.00 pages. if you more, you know it, of course them have merican does not, not thinking in terms of making russian people happy, that's not true. or we can not come together many issues we have contradicting our interests. will you say, going to say i got to make g, how much money has russia made that have increased oil prices? i know that fluctuating quite widely, but certainly watching the arms companies of the united states arms companies here making out of all this sergio political tension. well,

of course they're making money, we're making money and you say introduce sanctions. of course the price is o oil double probably from what now we should add to the russian budget, but that is the last budget internet explorer. oh, but that can cause some problems from mine if they have $10.00 bad barrel. oh, well price gas prices in the united states, so it's always a double edged. if americans introduce sanctions, the concurrent the united states as well. of course we're getting more money. it because of higher oil prices in this situation. americans, yes, they're american. ours companies are also winning because they are selling and selling arms, which american government brings to his new route and to create no question of hope that you are the only country which suffers at you. today is ukraine. the stock

market has collapsed. they cannot borrow money, and the economy is going down. so yeah, it's a big problem for you crane. so if, as you say implicitly, ukraine and the ukranian people are being sacrificed for us geopolitical interests . why doesn't put in meet zalinski outside the normandy process and arrange a summit so that all this can be explained to the, to the world where there is no problem about such summits actually is landscape doesn't want to have any thoughts with russia personal. and then of course, we don't want him to go to comply these with some points of the me ask agreement. there, there is a document which are assigned 8 years ago and q didn't do a thing to implement this document. that was a lens can't, you know, says either gun was to their heads and so on, and that's starting to be amplified in nato countries as the

a valid support for minsk 2 is diluted, arguably. oh, actually, alaska says he's not going to implement mr. agreement, but that means that the green will lose its territorial integrity because males is the only thing which keeps it together and cause the republics the finance company asking a lot, interested at all and staying inside the green. yes, but again, the people there would say that russia has not helped them enough and not saved as many lives as they might, regardless of putin calling agenda. and i wouldn't agree with that. you know, many people in russia would argue that we should have done that long before. i mean the recognition of, of their phonics a military arrangement with them. if they were russian forces their kia would not dare to perceive policy of genesis, which, which, well, genocide is denied and they can't be under means to which has been that supported

by him. law school at the un security council. the all a bit late, you know, people like miss a all, this is a bit late. you seem to be criticizing, letting me put in again and again, arguably for the policies carried out in recently. i think that the some of the rules are outdated but you know, which is also very cautious. and she doesn't want to spoil all the relationship issues unless he takes into account all the possible consequences. yes. some people argue that we should have recognized republish long go well, the former defense minister to buy his ellwood here in britain, probably not a man known that widely in russia to sanctions must be imposed now on russia, regardless of whether these are multiple deadlines for invasions, and you know, they're still saying here that maybe maybe you've invaded while we are this interviews happened. what do you think the impact of sanctions will be on the russian? people you think they, they will have an impact on the well,

of course they will introduce sanctions. no doubt of all 48 pages of sanctions on russia were absolutely groundless. and that will continue no question about how harmful the sanctions might meet entry all the previous sections they made, the russian economy stronger. we don't on demand as much on importance as before. we developed our national based systems, our sort of incentive to swifter, many, many of us we now having trade with china, india, and on and breaks countries and national currencies. and we're producing many, many things which we're buying outside before. one of the sanctions, rich sanctions, i think won't make a difference mother the hidden russian international business. well, this is, it has more to do with british business rather than russian business as well. and

those american sanctions from hell, you know, they can turn the russian economy. i seen some economic estimates on the, on the, you know, influence on those sanctions. ah, it says that ruble county valued oh, well, may have economic slowdown, which would last for a couple of years. then in the 1st year, maybe we can have a slow down in the girls around 2 percent. so it will cost us 2 percent on the g d p for one year, which is a lot a lot of course rush answer by i better just quickly ask you about that because russian defense minister again showing who met with my char last on this week and then you can usaa israeli war plains bombed syria in the past few days. what about syria's role as a staging post?

should there be, as i know on this side, nato countries are talking about russian false flags. maybe the talking about nature false lags in russia. what role would bases and syria playing any conflict? ah, well, oh, serious situation is complicated, of course, and the major difficulty there's economic because there is no age coming from any other country, other than russia. we're providing a lot of assistance, you know, we are, of course, providing don't just military support, but also the bonus forms of support. and the russia is a bare before getting the terrorists out. russia came there to defeat the ices which you, we drink in festival and then, and now it is a standalone in force in the area which also protects the syrian cities from israeli attacks, which are suppose me to be on the iranian facilities. but they also,

he just on their syrians. well, major countries say they also give aid, albeit in occupied u. s. military areas, alpha, syria, a, you know, a british newspapers this week had photographs of a, as off battalion soldiers in ukraine. i know you talked about the brotherly and cecily love between russians and ukrainians. just remind us who the as of battalion is, especially because it here in britain and we are hearing implicit comparisons between russia and nazi germany and vladimir putin. and hitler am who are the as of italian, that the british weapons are arming and the us soldiers are actively de facto backing. actually, we also have a very strong, a reasons to compare the nato with nazi germany will not say exit sexual because then is the same group of countries. lust isn't the case and the united states

for us, hitler was just the west. it was just wondering, you know, the image is olu at this point when they had completely disagree with that comparison and say they're definitely not nazis, as of is a nazi but tell you they have not see flags. they have not seen insignia. and they are considering gentler to be their hero. well, when the whole ukrainian army now has them battle cry slow grain giving them slow, but this is the battle cry of the ukrainians in the nazi battalions of motion assess that is exactly that. that's what ukrainian government is up to. his advantage in vantage to suckle made through media in nature nations, they do accept that the as of italian as new nazi sympathies,

but very much try to separate it from the rest of the ukrainian army proper. how much pressure then do you think is being applied to german john? so the new german johnson schultz to stop nord stream to and to back washington. the ambitions, as you described, oh, well, shows of courses in a different position than any other european liter fristoe because germany is someone, someone different. of course, a german strategic sovereignty is not too high. when you have still still have american occupational forces. there were 2 which are long tens of thousands of us troops. western, on the other hand, germany has 2 major differences from the united states from any of the european countries. one, they have a vaccine trauma, nazis because germans know what it is when they see nazis. they are in recognize

them as losses. and that's when they see ukraine. so many germans see it more than anyone else. and they want don't want to support arms to, to, through the nazis in a green and other thing, germany of course, has strong economic ties with russia than any other european country, except maybe netherlands. but they are, they have something to lose really, to lose if there is a tension in russia. so not, not the point you really believe it's because of the, as of italian, the germany refused to allow, reportedly refused to allow weapons to be transported to ukraine by other nato members during this crisis. no, no, no, just about telling. but many of the things they see they're also not marshes with tortures, which they remember from the massive days in germany. and now the same thing. sure, absolutely. and pictures from the streets of here we for some reason the western

media show. so they see a lot of course, there are more benefits in a way than any other european nation. and of course, and more than the united states of america. and that makes them them interested in austrian to 1st of all because it is profitable from the german economy due to long term contracts with gus from they're getting guess now at price, which is 4 times lower than the market price. and for them and says serious, similar for, for the development of their economy. green economy, multics the so for them it's important for the rest. it's not important for americans. it's more important to bring more marriage in l. n g to, to germany rather than to the alter it russian guess project. so that's why in germany has certainly spent at least tactical, you know,

so grantee in some issues there. and that is why germany, for example, was against wanting to leave it. which mention, well jeremy was against the war in iraq. so it has a more pacifist approach and more realistic approach i would say on international relations, among other things, germany, selections, and earn, you know, only 20 percent of germans support the india or britain giving arms to ukraine and in the present disapproval. that idea and 2 thirds of germans support the nor stream to that is something the government channels galore here, just like knick and off. thank you. thank you. that's after the show will be back on monday when we speak to the former commander of british forces in libya, 11 years to the day. mamma gadhafi son safe warned the riches began. donation in africa descended to civil war until then he would judge viral on social media. that

has no view thing. major in asia media has been accurately reporting on ukraine rush attention. ah, ah ah ah ah maximizes financial survival guide.

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with people are fleeing east and ukraine, them it, warnings that keeps military is escalating violence in the region. evacuation have been crossing the border and to russia with there's such a tension here in the morning. there was an explosion again, let's hope for the best russians. don't abandon their own break wave republics in east ukraine and mobilizing that forces, calling for all men that to take up arms to defend the homelands against cabs. military also had a canadian authority to cracking down on the anti mandated protest as hundreds of offices deployed in the capital. at least 70 people have been arrested.