o nuclear missiles, which was done actually, and then i'll tell you that anywhere can be targeted in a matter of seconds. of course, when it comes to lies amplified throughout the western media has been the fact that the nato leaders are saying that blood, emmy putin was lying. when he said, genocide was occurring in the a circle, breakaway republics of ukraine, which are the subject of the immense records and un security council resolution to, to 0. 2. well, it depends on the or does national genocide, e for the western governments think them killing or a $10000.00 people is not a genocide than it is not. but dance exactly the figures, the kia regime killed more than $10000.00 on their own citizens. and we consider that to be genocide, of course, that will never be recognized because all these carriers is attributed on russia,

aggression in east new crane though, there are not a single russian soldier. so for us it's clear o 4, west. i think it's also clear that it is not a genocide. how can democratic and free ukraine? i provide a policy of genocide, but that's exactly what they're doing. but what we hear in nature media is that 14000 were killed by russian back and separative. it was the other way. what about vladimir putin role in all of this? i mean, is not the case that as you talk about eastern expansion of nato, as this perhaps being an excuse to pull weapons in the united states certainly is boring. thousands of soldiers in it was put in was president when bulgaria, stoney latvia, lithia any remains to voc is renier began the 20th to prague. summit talks when albania, croatia joined. 20 or 9 mill, montenegro 2017 dot nasa dounia read. 2020. i mean, i don't think the problem here is the leadership of vladimir putin is failing,

the russian people as more and more countries are getting more native soldiers, more weapons to attack the russian people. perhaps. no, that's what's happening. yes. really, when they're talking about aggressive russia, they forget not just about the expansion of nato. it's not the extension of the area of liberty is just the special area of american military presence. and it's on our borders, which was in protest against each such move. but russia was not even listen. i'm not to say that anyone that decided to hear russia. so we came to the red line, and then we're russia is no, not going to step back a bit. so no, russia wants the west to comply with at least nato and neither russia found in, at all, for in 1907, which was no troops, no nukes, no new,

critical infrastructure, military infrastructure. he's new europe, which of course was violated many, many, many times. and now russia says, i'm friends, get back to the way to the american forces should be and the response is don't, and i can bring them not going to in thank crane. no one is prepared to attack the friendly nation. the mother, a republic, ukraine. you know, both of my mother and my grandmothers were born in grade. should i consider myself russian korean? you know, you can divide to my russian, you create that there. are people living with relatives and friends on those sites? and there'll be no such was the only option for such war is actually for americans to order the key of regime which the control to start the war against the republics or against rush moses lensky denies. he's under us control and indeed he has been

criticizing reporting in nato nations were sewing panic. and you mentioned that your relationship to ukrainian had bridge. that was a ukrainian, i know you're relative molotov, known to grassroots activists all around the world. but you are also working for gorbachev isn't the point here that there's a whole elite in russian society that has misunderstood the motives of the west. i understand that the vladimir putin on the record, according to a former british ex nato secretary general, saying am booted said when are you going to invite us to join nato? did you want to me? part of nato, the elite cinema in russia after 1991. definitely not. no. actually i think we'll put you on was kidding. it's only when she was asking them because he knew the answer. now says there was no. it's not about the rights of every nation

and to be admitted into nato. actually, i remember the 1991. he you mentioned rightly that i was working for gorbachev and i was personally meeting them. james baker and douglas heard when to tie. i heard it with my own ears that they're not going to expand nato. an inch east of was germany. so why didn't you get him to write it down any normal? i mean, and you don't have to be tally round bismark to understand that something like that . is in need of a treaty to be signed public? no, absolutely. i. i would agree. yeah, i would agree on that. but at this point especially not mine. i was not in a position to negotiate that i was there to listen to speak. and there was gorbachev who i think sacrifice his own principal,

shared by no one else in the world a share in sacrifice the country due to those principles. ringback that there was a big mistake of gorbachev and them. yes, of course. she could also have sent you an agreement, but she had an ideal undivided europe, as well as gorbachev, as well with new european architecture, being with russia being bought of it, and nato becoming just one of the european institution. but now is the european security system. and of course, on some countries like russia or out of the system, the system can understand. well, i understand that. and around that time, man at some russians, went to see leaders in the bay, ging to say, maybe china went through all for the shock therapy that russia chose to inflict on his people. they were laughed out and we surprised by jang june to the un security council meeting,

saying that the china condemned the instability created. he didn't mention it by name be said the united states. as a cold war mentality, i don't know what that means for chinese support for russia's position, but certainly the people's republic have they given one inch of territory and to nato powers as russia has no course, not in this sense, the chinese policies were more a national orient course channels or has a great strategic culture which dates back at least 5 millennium and china used to be the really global power for most of those 5 millennial. i'm a russia, china relations? no. i think what was not very well understood is the level of russia, china relationship. as of now, it's more than a lots. it's a very close relationship. and one, i think, should read their declaration,

signed by johnson. when russian president visited china, the opening ceremony olympic games, that is an amazing document. and you know, one was chapter number one of the document. it wasn't democracy. it was on democracy. saying that democracy is something that people can named democracy. democracy is falling to we owe their own people, not someone else, not following the will for, for example, the ceo state department of washington in general and standing actually the trust and chinese that's at some point democratic countries which call themselves democratic but being not, not very sovereign in their decision making, oftentimes ignoring the interest of their own people to the benefit all these songs

. you just love, nick, i'll stop you there. more from the deputy chairman of the russians. they duma committee on international f as after this break. ah, it's been since he is the soviet union collapsed, long miss colada, go to chill them on to what the union took, so, so shown where you swore trust them with all of them. ukraine was one of the independent states that emerge from the ruins of assume about new or some with on greens. come a little more surely confusing, from effect, and less new lease in west india. a . as soon as he was sonia i knew from bristol, what have the past 3 decades we'd like for ukraine. eye witnesses were coolly

events. this will be more or less due to she was in a deficiency of chipotle. what i knew to know that ownership it's, i'm not sure but about 4 months with marvin windows and what other forces were at play, your producer whom you show in shin mushy in those them, you are on the kid. what it americans to when is this the shows up in the moser versions, only slower. take a look at ukraine. 30 years after gaining independence. if you're gonna need your phone with us for dinner, unless you mean like unity retorted live, but a will. it made to provision, you must on holding no problem with

welcome back. i'm still here with the actress, lannigan of the deputy chairman, the russians say do my committee on international affairs and member of the ruling united russia party. you know, joe biden says to the citizens of russia, you are not our enemy, and i do not believe you want to bloody destructive war against you. crane. do you think that the united states is making a push here to perhaps try and make an alliance with russia to attack the greatest enemy to a u. s. interests, which is of course, china, the most powerful economic country by purchasing power parity of the world at the moment. oh, 1st of all, if this is an attempt to send some alliance with russia, it's a very unsuccessful attempt. i would say, i wish i could read and he could read the american national security doctrine and nuclear, both churn defense review and other documents which underlying american for him and

defense policy. in these all, all documents, russia is named as the enemy. and some of them as a think enemy number one. so no, that contradicts many things. you read, they were not the enemy, the russian people. why the list of only the titles of, of bills, laws at which we're introducing sanctions against russia for whatever is $48.00 pages long and americans are going to add to those $48.00 pages. if you more, you know it, of course them have merican does not, not thinking in terms of making russian people happy, that's not true. or we can not come together many issues we have contradicting our interests. will you say, go, do you say, don't you think g, how much money has russia made that have increased oil prices? i know that fluctuating quite widely,

but certainly watching the arms companies of the united states arms companies here making out of all this geopolitical tension. well, of course they're making money, we're making money and you say introduce sanctions. of course the price is oh, well, double probably from what? now we should add to the russian budget, open that into the us budget internet explorer. oh. but that can cause some problems for minute if they have $10.00 per barrel. oh, price and gas prices in the united states. so it's always a double edged. if americans introduce sanctions, the concurrent the united states as well. of course, we're getting more money in because of higher oil prices in this situation. americans, yes, their american arms companies are also willing because they're selling and selling arms, which american government brings to his new route and to create no question about

that. you are the only country rich stuffers that you today is ukraine. the stock market collapse. they cannot borrow money. and the economy is going down. so yeah, it's a big problem. oh, for ukraine. so if, as you say, implicitly, ukraine and the ukranian people are being sacrificed for us geopolitical interests . why doesn't putin meat zalinski outside the normandy process and arrange a summit so that all this can be explained to the, to the world where there is no problem about such summits actually is. lensky doesn't want to have any thoughts, russia, crystal. and then of course, we don't want him to go to combine these with some points of the me ask agreement. there is a document which was signed 8 years ago and killed. didn't do a thing to implement this document. was alan's his, you know,

says i gun was to their heads and so on, and that's starting to be amplified in nato countries as the a valid support for minsk 2 is diluted, arguably, oh, actually it'll ask. you says he's not going to implement this to agreement. but that means that the grain will lose its territorial integrity because males is the only thing which. ready keeps it together and cause the republics to diagnose comcast. you're probably still interested at all in staying inside the brain. yes, but again, the people there would say that russia has not helped them enough and not safe as many lives as they might, regardless of putin calling agenda. and i would agree with that, you know, many people in russia would argue that we should have done that long before. i mean, the recognition of them and those of your phonics a military arrangement with them. if they were russian forces their keith would not dare to pursue a policy of genesis, which, which well,

genocide is denied and they can't be under means to which has been that supported by him. lucko at the un security council. it's all a bit late. you know, people like this a, all, this is a bit late. you seem to be criticizing, letting me put in again and again, arguably for the policies carried out in recent. yeah. i think that the, some of the rules are outdated. but you know, which is also very cautious and she doesn't want to spoil all the relationship issues unless he takes into account all the possible consequences. yes. some people argue that we should have recognized republish long go. well, the former defense minister to buy his ellwood here in britain, probably not a man known that widely in russia, says sanctions must be imposed now on russia, regardless of whether these are multiple deadlines for invasions. and you know, they're still saying here that maybe maybe you've invaded while we are this interviews happened. what do you think the impact the sanctions will be on the

russian? people you think they, they will have an impact on the well, of course they will introduce sanctions. no doubt. all 48 pages of sanctions on russia were absolutely groundless. and that will continue no question about how harmful the sanctions might meet. actually, all the previous actions they made, the russian economy stronger, we don't on demand as much importance as before. we developed our national based systems, our sort of tentative to switch many, many on we now having trade with china, india and down breaks countries in national occurrences. and we're producing many, many things which we're buying outside. it's one of the sanctions, rich sanctions, i think won't make a difference. well they,

in russian international business. ah, well, this is, it has more to do with british business rather than russian business as well. and those american sanctions from hell, you know, they can turn the russian economy. i seen some economic estimates on the bus on the, you know, insulin, so no sanctions, i in says that rubel county really it oh, well, may have economic slowdown, which would last for a couple of years. then in the 1st year, maybe we can have a slow down in the girls around 2 percent. so it will cost us 2 percent on the g d p for one year, which is a lot, a lot of course rush answer by. i better just quickly ask you about that because russian defense minister again showing you met with much higher last at this week. and then you can usaa israeli war plains bomb syria in the past few days.

what about syria's role as a staging post? should there be, as i know on this side, nato countries are talking about russian false flags, maybe the talking about nature, false legs in russia. what role would bases and syria playing any conflict? ah, well, oh, serious situation is complicated, of course, and the major difficulty there's economic because there is no age coming from any other country other than russia were providing auto assistance. or we are, of course, providing don't just military support, mental sort of, honest forms of support. and the russia is a bare before getting the terrorists out. russia came there to defeat the ices, which you will think infected in. and now it is a stabilizing force. in the area which also protects the syrian cities from israeli

attacks, which are suppose me to be on the iranian facilities. but they also, he just ordinary syrians. well, nature countries say they also give aid, albeit in occupied u. s. military areas, alpha, syria, a, you know, a british newspapers this week had photographs of a, as off battalion soldiers in ukraine. i know you talked about the brotherly in sicily. love between russians and ukrainians. just remind us who the as of battalion is, especially because here in britain a, we are hearing implicit comparisons between russia and nazi germany and vladimir putin. and hitler um, who are the as of italian, that the british weapons are arming and the us soldiers are actively de facto backing. actually, we also have a very strong,

a reasons to compare the nato with nazi germany will not say exits actually, because that is the same group of countries plus the k and the united states for us, hitler was just the west. it was just wondering, you know, i images olu at this point when they do is completely disagree with that comparison and say they're definitely not nazis over is a nazi but tell you they have not sick legs. they have met st. insignia and they are considering gentler to be their hero. well, when the whole ukrainian army now has them battle cry slow grain going slow, but this is the battle cry off the ukrainians in the nazi battalions of motion assess. that is exactly that. that's what ukrainian government is. israel is that in vantage to some article may through media in nature,

nations. they do accept that the as of italian as new nazi sympathies, but very much try to separate it from the rest of the ukrainian army proper. how much pressure then do you think is being applied to german john? so the new german johnson schultz to stop nord stream to and to back washington. the ambitions as you described them. oh, well shows of course is in a different position and you know, the european leader for fristoe because in germany, someone would someone different, of course, a german strategic sovereignty is not too high when you have still still have american occupational forces there when we're to which along to tens of thousands of us troops roster. on the other hand, germany has 2 major differences from the united states from any other european countries. one, they have axiom trauma,

nazis because germans know what it is when they see lots is and they, they are in recognize them as losses. and that's when they see ukraine. so many germans see it more than anyone else and they want don't want to support arms to the nazis in a green. another thing, germany, of course, has strong economic ties with russia than any other country except maybe netherlands. but they are, they have something to lose really, to lose if there is a tension in russia to so that not the point you really believe it's because of the, as of italian, the germany refused to allow, reportedly refused to allow weapons to be transported to ukraine. by other nato members during this crisis, no, not, not just about telling, but many of the things they see. they're also nazi marshes with tortures which they remember from the massive aids in germany. and now the same pictures. absolutely.

and pictures from the streets of key f, which for some reason the western media don't show. so they see a lot. of course, they are more benefits in a way than any other european nation, of course, and more than the united states of america. and that makes them them interested in more stream to 1st of all because it's, it's, and also the german economy due to a long term contracts with gus from they're getting gas now at price, which is $4.00 times lower than the market price. and for them, it's a serious, similar for, for the development of their economy and the green economy multics the so for them it's important for the rest. it's not important for americans, it's more important to bring more marriage in l. n g to, to germany, rather than to the author, it, russian guess project. so that's why in germany has certainly spent at least

tactical, you know, silver anti in some issues there. and that is why germany, for example, was against bombings of leave it, which mention warranty was against the war in iraq. so it has a more pacifist approach and more realistic approach i would say on international relations. among other things, germany has some actions. and you know, only 20 percent of germans support the india or britain giving arms to create an inner percent, disapprove that idea. and 2 thirds of germans support the north june to that is something to government you know, the floor plan off. thank you. thank you. that's it for the show will be back on monday when we speak to the former commander of british forces in libya,

11 years to the day. mamma gadhafi, son, safe wanted the riches per capita, a nation in africa descended to civil war until then keep in touch viral on social media that has no view thing. major in asia, media has been accurately reporting on ukraine rush attention. ah, it's been since you years is the soviet union collapsed in miss gotta go to chill them on to what the palm yet nuclear you talk so. so shown where you swore trust 11 paul or tom ukraine was one of the independent states that emerge from the ruins of a super awesome. would you also be at, on google greens? come a little, i'm surely confusing. some of the yet and less new lease in west indiana better landlord, lost a surface petition offering and finish with water the past 3 decades when likely

ukraine, eye witnesses recall the events. this will be more or less due to she was in the deficiency of chipotle. what i knew the more familiar with that order. i'm not sure, but i've been in touch for 2 months with no idea what else and what other forces were at play. your producer whom you show in shin mushy in those them, you put on the kid what it americans when it shows us the most of the versions. rosalie's take a look at ukraine 30 years after gaining independence. if you're going to need your phone with us for dinner, unless you mean like unity retorted live, but a will. it makes you could view it okay. of lush was the moment. so problem these people learn from their own experience. how vulnerable of business is to the bank.

so you push my business over, the age, pushes me right to the edge, bankruptcy. now i realize we will good. this isn't just the back that may be involved in this is the counselor is, is the lawyers. these people have got you want on their stories. and what kind of whistleblower tell people's marriages have broken up, lost their family homes. it is spectacularly devastating for people's lives. we have committed suicide, but left behind notes to explicitly state that it was the constant intimidation and billing by bank officers that led them to i took the spear, it's obscene. these people up north, so she with most of his

she must i love it. it's my daughter, a wall with a it was over to one id my calendar. i'm all chill now to go to lunch with a. 1 few more a,

with a camera crew for our sister channel archie arabic, narrowly escaped shelling, a new cranes breakaway done. yes, republic. people are fleeing eastern ukraine to mid morning. the military is escalating violence in the region. evacuated to have been crossing the border into russia. during engine blew for there's such a tension here in the morning, there was an explosion. again, let's look over the best russians on demand. and they're also this. our russian goes ahead with annual testing of its nuclear capabilities, amid threats from the head of nato over what he earlier called aggressive actions by moscow. so if a criminal aim.