said dan hero ah, when i get the one i've been then that was why with the name julian gal, we have a different contact. that's it. that's what i ah ah ah hello and welcome to cross talk. we're all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . moscow repeatedly warned, it would not tolerate ukraine being used by nato to threaten russia's national security. those warnings were not taken seriously. even dismissed out of hand. what

we are witnessing is the cuban missile crisis in reverse. and this could have easily been avoided. i cro, sucking events in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess. alexandra bruno in toronto. he's an analyst at golf state analytics and in osland we have don de bar. he's an anti war activist and a radio show host, or a gentleman cross sock rules in the fact that means he can jump in any time you want. i always appreciated alexander, let me go to you. first in toronto, we have big our changes. so when i woke up this morning and started reading the news in my heart, sunk for everybody involved, this could have been very much avoided. i all through the day, thinking about our, our, our recording here. i was thinking of the munich conference in 2017 when po didn't warned nato about it's spanish and about it's the stabilizing effect in pan

european security. and here we are today. go back to december 17th of last year, asking nato, asking the united states to reconsider the architecture for european security. because it was because it would be had become inherently unstable and against russia's interest. and here we are today, and i like i just said, no one is a winner. your thoughts on the side day go ahead in toronto. yes, it was shocking for me. i for me, it was evening. and i opened the news and i saw what was happening. and while i was hoping until the last moment, in fact, i was surprised. but at the same time, not surprised. i wrote a piece that titled it's a trap. and i think perhaps the calculation and the crumbling was, will take the trap because the alternative is worse, which means this would have ukraine live inevitably fall into nato's lap.

and then the situation would have been worse, and i think it has played out as a cuban missile crisis in reverse. in fact, this is exactly the same situation. if we, if you don't take out the missiles, we will. and that's what seems to have done overnight. i'm not sure what the situation is like later how the things are progressing. what i've seen the focus. busy has been on military bases for the time being but it's a shock and unfortunately, i think russia will pay, will be made to pay a high price as, and i think europe will pay a huge price as well. it's a, it's everyone's shooting on the wrong feet here,

and they could have been completely avoided not once, but several times or 8 years to change, to consider even open to the idea of changing the architecture, which is completely it's not even useless. it's completely inappropriate. because the nato was designed to protect europe from soviet russia. soviet union, the soviet union has long finished. it's no longer in existence. so nato should have been. the architecture should have been changed already in 1992. this is already, we are 30 years too late. don, you know, the, you know, when i was this morning when i was watching events on hold and checking around, various news outlets trying to get my head around what was going on. the thought entered my head that the post cold war era is finally over. we're in the new epa right now. i don't know what to call it, but the, the, the europe, the pannier

a p in security architecture came into existence. after the end of the soviet union, after the cold war, now it is completely collapsed because it is security is indivisible. if one country is threatened all are, and this is the situation that we have come to know. and ukraine is paying a very heavy price for not making a choice. we had the men's got accords wanting to, it was a way out. there was a guarantor, russia, france, germany, france, and germany did nothing. they sat on their hands for 8 years. and they were supposed to be guarantors to this. they did not push kev to commit to itself. and this is where we are starting monday, with the, with russia, recognizing the don republics. and now what we have now disarming ukraine, the name of this program, don, your thoughts they have a real complex puzzle of, you know, different pieces interacting, the geopolitical considerations of these,

you know, economic, political. ready blocks are the one that, you know, is more or less comprised a much of the world up until recently, the hedge am on really are the rising eurasian global competitors, how it's viewed in washington anyway, the in other words, eurasia building and standing on its own. m and charting at its own future, which is a threat, of course, to those who have designs on the future of eurasia for themselves. the goal of the united states looking at russia in particular for china tube hasn't changed really from the goal of france in the 19th century and of germany in the 20th century. they see seberio, in essence, asian, russia, and china as the africa of the 21st century,

where they're going to go in and capture all the mineral wealth. rather than dragging laborer the slaves off, you have highly skilled a technical workers. they want to extract value from them working from megan for the corporations in the west, at the direction of people in the west and the foreign policy, the united states and the ear was directed towards that. you cannot really have any other interpretation for the placement of military forces along rushes borders from the baltics to the korean peninsula, including those things that would negate roches ability to respond in the event of an attack. this is a 1st strike. you know contraption that's been installed around russia. oh, great. oh no, john don, not what we're told over and over again. nato is a defensive ally and it's a defense of alliance. you know, it's delta burge, he has that on speed dial. it's all he can say here. i mean, this is what we keep hearing and speaking of now to nato. let me quote here. nato

claims that it is made every effort to pursue diplomacy and dialogue with russia and has repeatedly invited it for talks to in the nato, russia. council. let me go back to toronto, how do you respond to that? you know, we've been asking for talk, but yeah, that's all it is, is talks. that's what so frustrating when every opportunity is put on the table for a negotiated resolution to this, that was always pushed off the table. this is what so infuriating. go ahead and toronto, indeed, and in fact, it seemed to me that you repeat and remembered not to mention nato. remember, the men's chords only, maybe a couple of hours after the, after the attacks began. that's when all of a sudden they started calling out men's and the rushes failure to abide by those agreements. so it's, it's

a one way situation. but also nato has become stifling because it prevents the various countries which are already bound by rules. for example, in germany, france, italy have to abide by the e u rules and then there's a native one and the individual foreign policy and the pursuit of individual interests is completely cancelled out. there's france, italy, germany has 0 interest in going along with the nato attitude, one loses they all lose, lose gas. and then there are the other problems that i found out. of course, we will probably go up and my favorite pasta will cost a lot more because of this. so the, i can't believe the nato has actually interfered with the individual interests of

the various powers that it represents. it's become utterly useless. not to mention it. i don't have words, in fact it's very angering i've i've, i've never quite understood that it's point any more after 1992 doors. so pack was dismantled. it should have been dismantled. fair and square. then. yeah, i mean we are, we hear this a lot from earth. everything must have reciprocity, but the warsaw pact collapse, but nato didn't. so where is the reciprocity there? i don't, i don't cedar live don. let me quote the, my ursula underline of the e u. m. we condemn this barbaric attack and the cynical arguments used to justify it. how do you respond to that after all of this shuttle diplomacy that we had for actually, you know, 6 weeks, 2 months before prior to these events? i, i find it very hard to take that seriously. go,

had done well start with the previous architecture for security in europe. you have a germany divided in 4 parts. mostly that a concession by the way, by the soviet union, because the soviet union really defeated germany. and perhaps you could make a case also that the u. s. in the u. k. had a hand in it, france collaborated with germany. they should have divided france also to be honest . but you had this division and you had buffer countries, in essence, the warsaw pact, countries for all of the ideological stuff that he side used against it. there. there were indigenous communist parties or indigenous capitalists parties. there was like, well this is close to us. we don't want to be invaded from here. again. let us have paul. one is the buffer czechoslovakia is a buffer, romania, bulgaria, et cetera. that was the agreement and western europe was handed to the united

states. in essence, the united states occupied and still occupies that the soviet union withdrew from germany on an agreement that it's now been rat, you know, 4 or 5 different people who were involved. have confirmed that with the documents that the agreement was there would not be any further movements of nato beyond the elm. and yet, there has been after the collapse of the soviet union, the alleged res, on for the creation of nato. it moved all the way to the borders of russia. how else can you interpret that? okay, gentlemen, are we will interpreted or we're going to go to a hard break here now about hard break. we'll continue our discussion on what's happening in ukraine. stay with our tea. ah ah, ah,

ah oh, more than 20 years have passed since one of the world's deadliest terrorist attacks that took thousands of lives. people started to scream. there was a wave that came up for us. that was like opening up an oven door, not all wounds of heel. the survivors and responders have increased rates of cancer and other health issues. due to the dust and chemicals they inhaled. i come here to get my blood cleaned out. the metals at obtaining a little of lead me cutting in my blood in terms of 1st responder was well over a 100001st responders. and there was some estimates that 10 to 20 percent. so happy to yes. so yeah, that the chief recovery is my wife for a church of the minute i have with the only friends i thought i was humbled before

this really humbles you appreciate wife ah ah welcome back to across stock where all things are considered on peter level to

remind you we're discussing events in ukraine. ah. okay gentlemen, i want to talk about 2 related topics here. first of all, let's talk about energy. let's talk about the nord stream to and of course the gambit to, in my opinion, this is all about trying to neutralize russia from europe to, for the west, to focus has tensions on china, which i think is a stupid fever dream. but i think it's in the cards here. first of all, i let it go to toronto, let's talk about energy. let's look at the history of nord stream to ha, well, it's its origins up. i remember germany requested russia to build a 2nd pipeline. it was a german idea, and the russians built it at a very hefty some. okay, of course, when you look at western media, particularly american media, they talk about it is it's an american pipeline. you know,

i don't know why joe biden or donald trump or anyone else in any american administration feels they have ownership of something that they don't own. but that's exactly how they talk about it in media. so europe now is that you are experiencing a severe energy crunch and there is a pipeline that could be full of gas, but they don't want to fill it up because somehow this benefits rush. it actually benefits consumers and producers, but i don't want to get too technical here. i was sandra. i mean, you know, it's almost out to the point of absurd, the way they're talking about energy because it's the u. s. that wants to capture the european market at a huge premium. it's a good power play for the americans and for their, their control over europe as we will talk about later as they look to china. am i over the target? go ahead. no, nope, here i think this is exactly right. in fact, i think ultimately the reason for or the lack of understanding from the west and particularly from the united states is north stream to the north stream. 2 stood in

the way of american l. n. g. ship delivered by ship, you know, very expand, expensive and very dangerous because the u. s. has been increasing its production of l n g. it needs the market. so the nor string to was a huge obstacle. the other problem, of course, is that of europe's actually, the world's on making this, the climate change story has increased to such an extent, making unreasonable and, you know, dream like solar and wind energy as if, you know, there's enough space for all that. the only solution in europe, germany shut down, it's nuclear reactors. there's perfectly cheaper many cheaper sources available. but no, they, in the name of this literally ideology they,

they need natural gas to fuel the, the green revolution. they've made the natural gas much more important and they go and shoot their own foot by interfering with making it now impossible. perhaps in a couple of months we may have some talks again to reopen, but certainly the target, i think for this entire thing was nor string to from the beginning. yeah, let's go back to don don. i think that's absolute. i mean, i think that's one of the most important layers here. i mean, essentially would, and energy is the means to, to, to do this is to, you know, what they want to do is they want to shut russia out of europe. ok. that has been the entire thinking since the end of the cold war is that quote, unquote, russia, the soviet union is defeated. now we push it out of europe. american hegemony, a maintain, and germany was always the wild card there because it's the power house of europe.

it's the economic powerhouse of europe. and you have to make sure the germans cannot make amends. make a work with the russians. this is what the atlantis is. we hate the most and they're winning their winning right now. and the 2nd caveat that i, how here china, how does this play into it? go ahead, done that. well, as i said before, you've got, you know, multiple dimensions to this one is the geopolitical, obviously, the commercial, the, you know, the mercantile this is a very important driver of, of these policies. and you've got a market in europe. first of all, aware, for 3540 years you've had, you know, broader and deeper austerity imposed on workers and even the middle class or what remains of it. an energy cost soaring before this crisis. so, so cold and anticipating that there would be this natural gas supply through north north stream to now that dries up, what you're going to do is substitute something like,

cuz you may be looking at 2530 percent of germany's energy going by, by in the middle of these are still with these cars rushes, it's going to cut him off for acts. well, if that happens, you're going to make it up with more expensive to produce frack gas from the u. s. that you then have to ship across the atlantic there, who's going to pay for it. no one in, in europe can they can of their choosing now between food and eat. and so you're going to jack up the baby double the price of it. again, you may see some re rebellions even revolutions in europe over this quote. it's go back to toronto. i mean, the, the issue of the price of grain has been brought up here to, i mean, if you and it's, it's one of them is cut in for a lot of people to really mundane. but the price of grain, i can tell you about social, on stability, around the world, not just in europe here. but let's, let's stay with the, with the guy. it is here. it seems to me, the way events are being played out right now. is that again, right, they,

they want to keep russia out of europe. well, i think that europe's expense, i mean, if you're, it becomes very stagnant. it's not very dynamic. it's supposed to get on board with the washington's anti china crusade, which, you know, a lot of people in the us, particularly wall street, are not particularly interested. a lot of people have made money in china. very few of those wall street people have made money in russia. ok. so i think again, this is kind of a fever dream here, but it's, it's, it's certainly the united states demonstrating it. so hold, it had gemini over its allies and i don't see that it goes in anywhere parts deposit positive and certainly trying to knock russia out. will russia, obviously, is everyone's worried about will turn east, go ahead in toronto. well, i mean, the russian turning east and i think this must come into the calculus at the beginning of the operation because it's clear putting understand what,

how and when europe will react and they will, but it'll perhaps, in a few months we'll see europe reversing because they're going to feel the pain and the, the green revolution in europe is truly and they're threat now because the, this idea of having the conversion to electric cars has been pushed in a much faster way than anybody ever expected with the european rules. banning therm, fuel power, the engines by 2030 or 2035. i forgot the actual date, but it's ridiculous. so they want to bring an electric car who's going to produce all this electricity. certainly not wind farms or solar panels. you need that whole pipe dream work on natural gas that masked the fact that these

sources were insufficient. and then they went along and shut down nuclear reactors, germany in ports, nuclear energy from france. because france still has the sense to keep its nuclear reactors going. china is building hundreds of new reactors. so and of the new type they, they're much smaller, much more efficient and much cleaner. and perhaps that's the only solution if, if you are one to survive but you don't have the time. luckily i think for europeans, i've actually one of the 1st things i did when at the beginning of this military operation was check the weather forecast for europe, european capitals for the next 2 weeks. it's going to be some warm and as a sprinkler, because i think her had, they had a toronto weather minus 10 minus 15 and so on the a the they're putting would have had an extra card to play this a. yeah. i mean,

when i think of germany at the sun, this is what in wind isn't when i think of when i think of germany, i think of good cars in beer. i don, let me go to you. i were all told, this is in the name of democracy, one of the problems i have a problem. one of the things i have with this issue here is that ukraine had a democracy in 2014, but the west over through they a democratically elected governments. i mean, what is this democracy thing if they, over through a government go ahead. one of the things he says, really useful for people to do if you go to wikipedia as bad as it is as bad as it is. look at the 2010 a ukrainian election. there's a map there that shows you the, the route relative support for young cove itch and to mishenko were the, to the 2 final round candidates. and to verify that election by the way, there's also a chart if it's still up of the c, i. 8 isn't take it down of like 7 or 8 exit polls from all over the world that confirmed that you know, that he won the election. then you can see that, you know,

everything, it's and blow in essence on that map, you're going to have strong support for what's going on with russia right now. cuz those are the people that elected him and where it's read, you're going to have support for what's going on in kia because they voted against of the candidate the of the party of regions, piano cove edge. and that is not by the way entirely of with the school because the co was illegal, the governments that have flown float from it or illegal they've banished the party, is that existed for about a 3rd to a half of the population at politicians in jail. this is the broadest and they've got nazi actual, you know, people call neo nazis. these are not me are not, is, are old school. they still have the same uniforms and shields. and same hero that they had in the 1940s when they welcome the germans and showed them where the jews and russians were to kill. and so, you know,

just on the china question very quickly, i, you know, if this plays out the way it appears to, and china keeping you know, and, and even balance. but, you know, supporting russia against us sanctions like has happened since 2014 in one way or another. you could be looking at some kind of sanctions war with china, but with the united states, which they really can't do. i mean, at the end of that day, we end up with china's 1000000000 of and a half people have to absorb another 5 or 10000000 cars. computers and t, v sets every year. and we and absorb another couple 100000 lawyers, accountants and b. s artists because as what we export well, well i well, but at least you know down the leak in the arms export business is always good. ok . i mean there, there are 2 types of country in the world. people, countries that are sanctioned by the u. s. and countries by american arms, that's the only 2 differences. there are a gentleman that's all the time we have here. many thanks to my guess and also, and in toronto, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz,

see you next time. remember, cross top roles ah maxed out of financial survival, john did a lot of money laundering 1st to visit this cash to 3 different. oh good. this is a good start. well, we have our 3 banks all set up here. maybe something in europe, something in america, something overseas, in the cayman islands, you know, all these banks are complicit in their piracy. we just have to give them a call and say, hey, i'm ready to do some serious my laundry. okay, let's see how we did. well, we've got a nice laundry watch for max and for stacy. oh, beautiful jewelry. and how about ha ha. luxury automobile again for mag, you know, it, money laundering is highly regal. copier cookies? watch record.

ah. in with the money out of here across the entire russian capital. this is audrey international with it's been 30 years since the soviet union collapsed, long misconduct good or chill on to what the talk. so shown where you also trust someone call it ukraine was one of the independent states that emerge from the ruins of a super about new or somebody. would you also get on greens? come a little more. surely. she was

a watch at the past 3 decades. we'd like to ukraine. eye witnesses, recall the events. this will be more or less a little you what i knew to know if that order. i'm not sure but about 4 months with no idea what else, what other forces were at play? your producer whom you show in shin machine the same you put on the kid what it i'm going to consume little bit when you the shows up in them was a little versions of these. take a look at ukraine, 30 years out, the gaining independence. if you're going to do your phone with us for dinner, unless you mean like you to give it was a no problem.

a russian defense minister order say fix it routes for you quoting soldiers willing to surrender. as a military operation on falls off, the russian president ordered a special operation saying the aim with defense, the people who don't boss from aggression by the pay, the military not imposing a stress. russia has no plans for occupation. a kid has cut diplomatic relations with russia. i know to the west to build an antique putin politician while the us and is that i slammed the criminal operation as a barbaric attack and val the hall yourself sanction with.