from sidney in australia. ok, thank you so much on to the for coming back on. obviously ukraine is the world story yet, so you already classified australia piece b as to suggest that the, well, the intentions of the war in afghanistan weren't quite what the media told us was obviously they're even quite and down in a donation. mainstream media about the freezing of assets during the winter. so it wasn't about un security council resolution 1378, allowing invasion by nature countries. there, there were other aspects to the occupation of afghanistan. i spent the last 10 years looking at this issue with kennesaw and i've been there twice in 20122015. and one of the things i've been investigating for a long time is the natural resources under the ground in afghanistan. the soviets, in fact, discovered this 50 odd years ago when i were in the country, i couldn't do much with us for 2001. the us and its allies went into the country. and they sang, discovered the soviet plants essentially for all these minerals gold, copper,

leafy em, rarer and for the 20 ease of the us led occupation. they try, they being the u. s. australia u. k. tried to exploit those resources which are worth anywhere between $1.00 to $4.00 trillion us dollars. and in short, they didn't get very far. the country was at war. there was massive corruption. and the question i really was looking at for this declassified australia and they classify u k. investigation. but also in my work on disaster capitalism is what was the reason behind these countries trying to extract the mean was on the one hand, yes, i want to make money. trump was a big fan of the resources he actually opened. they said, this is maybe a way i could support the afghan war. american corporations could make money from the resources. and i reported a number of british and australian, large corporations, and individuals who tried mostly on successfully to make deals with the afghan government for taliban took over in 2021. to sign deals to try to extract these

resources. and the sad reality is that if any of those deals had actually gone through, the only way to extract those resources in a was i, is to pay off militias and to pay for you right now. me. and which is what a lot of people do in counseling science to extract resources. and the question really i have been having is why is this issue really talked about them? and i know why, but it should be and i think to why we're getting to why, but it visibly major countries, britain and australia, of course, are focused on in your life, just piece with the glass of idols, trailer, you know, we know why the lesser of 2 evils, if one evil is poverty, the other is to mind for the benefit of the african people. just remind us of the role of u. s. contractor eric prince. i mean i thought the trump advisory was brother of trump's education secretary, betsy. the divorce he was about you see a security ca back security. why is eric prince in your article about this idea of

mining for the benefit of the people of afghanistan? and eric prince is material that's obviously very polite. he had a vision. if you can call it that kind of stand for 2 things, when the trump administration very office one, he advertised and promoted to trump and he's people that they should privatize the war. he argued that the war was finally under the only way to the u. s. good when the war was, of course, was before the taliban took over last year, was the war should be privatized, that his people should essentially run the country and in a private army, that was the 1st, hey, brand idea. the 2nd one was he talked openly and proudly, and he spent time in cobble. i did some reporting about this a few years ago, and his questions were put directly to him that he advocated mining in afghanistan . in fact, because he knew trump was so keen on the idea of the afghan war being his v. a benefit if you american companies could actually extract resources print,

exploring the possibility of extracting some of these rare earth. i shouldn't forget these rare lithium. amongst others. i key ingredients in mobile phones and computers and of course as we move towards the d carbonized world. so we hope these resources which often are in conflict, zines, dsa, congo, afghanistan and elsewhere are part of the question of how do you expect these resources when you're claiming to be carbonized in a secure and beneficial way. whereas the actual extraction is so dirty and messy and ugly as it often is. that people like eric prince, the 1st in line to try to get the results of suffice to say didn't get anything. the plan failed, as most of his plans often do, but he was more on the more prominent advocates for this plan. but there are many others. let me get to its failure in a moment. obviously he wouldn't say was harebrained. i bet there's a lot of good know in the national security council, the u. s. who say probably right, and they wouldn't have been defeated if they've taken eric frances advice. i know

we're kind of smiling, but we see this is her effect for the people of afghanistan in terms of what happened to them or showing this occupation. you then talk in your piece about the british geographical survey, i completely benign, lovely organization, i'm sure and they would deny any wrong doing in this they, they may have a gun exploration from 2004. and, and your saying that to what the british geographical survey may be doing may have been directly linked to this idea of expectation, of mineral resources, which would de facto some suggest a, b, stone. yes, i mean, obviously there's no connection to eric crane, but what they were doing there amongst other similar organizations, including the equivalent organization in the u. s. was they were working with the afghan government, which was then how many cars on the afghan ministries mines, which was notoriously corrupt, pretty much for the entire 20 year occupation to do 2 things. first,

to claim that we're building a fair and equitable mining law. so the foreign companies want to come in, they could sign deals with the afghan government, and the afghan people would benefit, which is in theory, what should happen, right? and secondly, they were also working on an area code 9 am, which is now from table in our province. it is one of the largest corporate deposits in the world. it was the graphical organization was working with the afghan government to make it possibly up for 10 to the chinese caught that contract about 15 years ago. and they've done nothing with that. in short because the violence corruption, i'm and i was damaged 2015. i spent time in the villages in this community right next to the proposed mind. and they were so devastated and angry at the chinese at the afghan government at the taliban. because that being shafted, they had been promised the world. they've been promised roads and schools for their

kids and that were given nothing and they were facing violence from the taliban, from the afghan government and from milton. like i says. so they were on the verge of joining the insurgency at the time, because i was so angry by what was happening then he says one example, but it shows the broader question. and the irony is the group that benefited motion the results boom in afghanistan in the last 20 years was the tell that tell. and we're making huge amounts of money from exploiting resources. i mean, a lot of say illegally. i went to partnership with the afghan government, of course, that were doing it themselves. never exporting the resources around the world. and i'm making a lot of money. in fact, alabama generally getting their money from 2 major sources, drugs and mining people. knowing more about the drugs aspect, but less about the mining in fact now that the taliban are in jobs since august last year. what's interesting is that they are clearly cash pool to put it politely

. the countries collapsing the way to census a band in the nation, the bait them and punishing the afghan people for the fact of the taliban won the war. and what the taliban trying to do is 2 things. one is trying to sell some of the mines off the creek cash. and the countries that are most likely to benefit from the potential resource for him is china and pakistan. the western nations usaa australia. k, that invested huge amounts of money in trying to argue we steal those resources. i've got nothing out of that. and that, to me, i think it's a pretty interesting lesson for many colonialists everywhere will oversee britain in the united states, say that they're not punishing the alabama for winning in the, the war. i mean, what do you think the insurgents, i mean, those people you talk to back then, what would they think about the freezing of assets by joe biden? today, given that as you say, all the promises made to them were broken about how mining would enrich their lives

and the explanation of resources in the region. i think i would be angered and desperate and incredibly frustrated and i have a lot of african friends, but in afghan, a stand in the diaspora in the u. k. a u. s. and i've never met anyone in the last 6 months since the taliban took over to support. but the us is doing, i mean, whether they supported the u. s. leaving or not. there's different views about that to be fair. but in terms of what's happening now, there is no one he thinks the u. s. policy is moral or even the legal. i mean, the afghan people are on the verge of mass starvation, the population of 40000000 people un estimates at 98 percent of them, a food insecure. there is a country incomplete, not to collapse. most them western media ignores that. there are some journalists that do cover to be fair, but in general it's mostly ignored. whereas when the taliban were taking over in august, there was a huge orgy of concern, apparently for the afghan people,

most that has not disappeared. and to me, as some is found a lot of time in afghanistan in the last 10 years. and he still believes that afghanistan deserves independence. and freedom a tell a bad one, whether we like it or not. and the fact is that the people of afghanistan don't deserve to be punished for the fact that the taliban beach, the entire major western armies in the space of 20 years and the african friends i have. the ones who are still in afghanistan are desperate. they're mostly desperate to get out. most of them come for a range of reasons. most western countries and not really open their doors to african refugees. some have to be, show the countries that have mostly a closer its neighbors pakistan, principally, but many afghans. i'm surely article is written the officials, some of who may be involved in these sorts of mining conversations. i mean, given the asylum in australia and i should just say it's all about the drug

accusation. they say it's an age of countries that was monitoring the drugs over there they do, but yeah, that's not true, but yes, i know they denied but now there's been a number of countries including the u. k and australia who have taken lots of someone and i was african refugees. and i applaud that. but there's been a certain number of afghan senior government officials in that former asher kani regime with serious allegations against them. serious allegations of corruption and worse against them. well, i'm having issues, i hope you are on vacation, or as regards the freezing a message, you talk about the imminent starvation and we've got in joe's on this program. you can also what job cause i interview actually no way denies corruption with the threat of starvation at the moment as biting freeze of these assets was job. i'm not sure what the direct relevance of afghanistan, the direct relevance to 911 is. he says ok,

they may be starving there. the 911 compensation fund needs the afghan assets money . i mean, it's the logical and there are a number of families of 911 victims who have come out and ultimately said in the last weeks, this is a completely moral policy. we don't want to punish the afghan people for what happened on 911, which let's not forget. 15 of the 19 hijackers was saturday. they went afghan. there were no afghans on those planes. yes. i am going to send out the taliban, gave shelter to our car, but the afghan people, the 40000000 afghan people, not at fault for 911. and i think this is a case where the u. s. this is mostly bipartisan. there are, some democrats have come out and been critical of biden's policy that, you know, republicans have said much about it. and i think this really goes to the heart of how u. s. foreign policy. and frankly, u. k. australian foreign policy operates, cause chaos, leave, mess, leave, and don't wage on the way out. i mean this essentially what happened a little,

the money to china. obviously those is deny all of that and say that they were mandated under the un resolution 1378 to do what they did to to defend the united states as the lowest. i'll stop you that more from the prolific journalist all the filmmaker co founder of declassified australia, after this break with hello, driven by tremendous shapes, banks, concur. some of those with airs,

sinks. we dare to ask for what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms. race is often very dramatic, development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully, very difficult time. time to sit down and talk with welcome back. i'm still here with that. it's the lowest kind the beneficent to buy the journalist or the filmmaker and co founder of declassified australia told me about after i've gone you denies corruption and wrong. do we invite him on the

program? you said one of an official in his government told you about how government contracts was signed regarding the mining leases. yes, i mean, one of the things it's been very clear is in afghanistan has been the role of u. s. u. s. and u. k. embassies in campbell, australia, or else he had a much smaller role where it's much smaller country with that there was a military presence in afghanistan, but obviously compared to the u. s. u k, much smaller, smaller economically. so exactly, yes. not. yes, exactly. no, basically what my so said to me and i've heard it in other examples too, is that often the embassies of u. s. and u. k particularly was strong arming the afghan government on a range of mining contracts because they wanted companies from the countries to benefit from mining extracts. and this colleague of mine, all sorts of mine, was saying that he was in a room where he saw us and british officials pressuring african officials,

senior afghan officials to sign a contract. now ultimately, as i said, all these contracts failed, no mining in any kind of decent, reasonable way actually happened because of mass corruption and the fact that there was a was on. and what so disappointing here is there's no real accountability at all. there's no real discussion about the role that nations like the u. s. and e k had and their embassies in cobble. i should also say alongside the question of mining. i also heard from the same source which isn't put next story in declassified australia, but i've written it elsewhere, is how often there was well awareness of the mass corruption that was within the afghan government. but there was pressure on nations to keep on bringing the aid even though they knew that the vast bulk of it was disappearing into f. can

bank accounts a very tiny minority of afghan bank accounts? so the afghan war itself cost the us putting side any other countries, well over a trillion dollars they stand with and that's all see from military. and also i suppose that aiden government support the u. s. but anyway, between half a trillion. so a trillion dollars on trying to build up an afghan state that essentially was arguably a failure from well, arguably 2002 for 20 years. and as the washington post revealed the fees ago, and it's really important series on afghanistan, u. u. s. officials and the u. s. military mute, the war was a failure and we see leaks, documents in mind at all. so i show you guys how many officials, including from australia and the u. k, was saying privately that the war was a disaster. the public that they were continuing. and so i think the lesson for me out of all this and for i think anyone who's now since he and human being is always

be skeptical of government claims of that war. and especially when there's an attempt to try to steal a country's results of which are not based the steel. i mean now the countries in a bind, afghanistan, even if they can extract those resources, can be down safely, can it be done securely? are they questions around extraction in terms of climate change research? there are an afghan friends of mine say i can stand doesn't have the luxury of not extracting those resources while at the same time it's incredibly unclean with showing the structure to do so. who would really benefit if there was an ability for to do that now? who would benefit and i fear would not be the afghan people. will the nato countries, what was he denied theft? and that was really just to re ging leaseholder about the future exploitation of julian assigned to the change here in london. and he famously said it was a recycling operation. nothing estimates were actually to drill and it may have cost you as you talk about how an

n c s come on. handling company have access to the former is great cia, both general betray us. he's being interviewed by a lot of the moment because of the ukraine. com. it was a great, it was great insights into that conflict. i mean, obviously for to skew the essay, yes, they all deny they're doing anything wrong. they'd say they're just trying to help the african people with their mining practices. what, what, what were they doing in this region and having to, with a having to negotiate with that we're trying to make money. i mean, one of the interesting things of that for the c national, which is you don't know, is the largest mining companies in australia or it's run by and in forest. it was phase, which is man, he has ambition is to be one of the largest angie companies in the world, which might sound like hyperbole. but he's incredibly useful, very powerful man. he had a vision of the show. i should just say he denies all wrong doing. he does. he doesn't date his company does as well, and he's company signed a deal. this is not

a secret, but he's company signed a deal in 2020 with the afghan government. we've released and classified australia, a contract of that where he was sensually his company was able to get exclusive access to many of the areas. if that's going to stand for a number of years to try to exploit a range of minerals and rare earth that never got off the ground. in short, because of the ongoing war, the british interests a number of them had tried to support david cameron's conservative government back in the day to also try to access the results of them. if you look back even much publicly available from 10 years ago, there were countless articles by u. s. u. k and australian official is talking about the huge potential of afghanistan's mining boom boom never happened. suffice to say, almost like every case that i've investigated on the story has been a shambles. there's no mining contract that i are saying in afghanistan that went well not one, but none of that stopped a range of companies and countries pushing that. so i'm not saying the war in

afghanistan was fought for 20 solely to extract the resources that would be untrue, just like, and i think the iraq war was fought solely for the oil. i think it was a factor, but i think that was the only race and there was imperial huberts amongst many other reasons. and but the afghan resources were definitely part of that agenda. and it's, it's, it's an absolute disgrace after 20 years. that a, those resources whenever didn't get benefits to the afghan people. and he, we are in 2022 and none of the countries or companies that try to exploit those resources are being held to account for what was which would to what would have been a massive grand theft of a countries. priceless resources that's amazed is for and much emma. so my dad, i was sleeping the wheel when it comes to this story. as you say, there were many is multifactorial, the invasion of afghanistan, as you are just talking about in terms of journalism. so many journalists,

foster of gather start, i mean, 2 decades of war, united states is longest war was there was some mention of possible pipeline activity for energy resources in the initial stages of the war. during these journalists who were on the ground in kabul, some of them obviously in the green zone, just didn't know about the mining deliberately, didn't to talk about the mining. we're told not to talk about the mining with a idiots or was this? was this something they wanted to avoid when they reported for their corporate media? barons look, i think there was obviously some good journalism done by jenna's in the last 20 years from us. you can a straight, but so much of it was embedded and i'm not saying been that i just made embedded in a literal sense, you know, imbedding with us. so pretty sure straight and true for that. ok, you happen to, it's embedded psychologically with the belief in the u. s. is,

and there was benign to spite all the evidence to the contrary, whether it's war crimes, whether was mass violence committed by us. so british forces or drawing a tax, whatever it may love us, just some harsh reported, nice stories, of course, but often i think they will still this belief that the u. s. s. cole, there was no goal, and he saw some of that come out very clearly when the us with drawing and all this last year. that love us journalists that spend 20 years supporting and blinding popping up by the us occupation in the afghan government. but almost in t is with the fact that their beloved occupation was coming 20, not often. they didn't explicitly say the occupation should last and many mean there's 2 choices here. the tell a man take over all the us occupation continues. there's only 2 options in the and that was the choice. and i think for many corporate journalists who invested so much psychologically and blood and t since 2001,

i think for them this i'm talking about u. s. u k, and u. s. channel is across much of the west and well, with some notable exceptions that were very invested in that war. continuing their invested in a continuing under the guise of saving afghan women, whatever the reasons are justifications that bank fees. and there's no doubt though elements of the war and i saw myself where african women, some of them were educated, that would not have been without the occupation. that's just a statement of fact batch. and it's a very b carriers. 70 percent african population is outside the major cities. so. so many of the journalists who are recording stan didn't leave travel. well didn't leave kandahar. so what they saw was on mosul or whatever it made, some ice will start most i sharif. so what i was saying was a very narrow slice of afghanistan, so many of the afghans who lived in the rural areas 70 percent, for then the last 20 years has been hell. that's from us,

forces the taliban and militants. and obviously now the countries can play economic collapse and to media any way to address that is to engage in family. recognize that tele balance is not of you. many people want to hear, but for those communities to live outside the cities, despite the economic collapse, it is the most peaceful in afghanistan. now, for the last 40 years, none of this defends or denies the violence going on still. now, some communities have been impacted. i'm not denying any of that, and i know friends of mine have family cobble who are being targeted now by the taliban. so this is not a defensive tell about at all. but it says that from many afghans outside the cities who often didn't speak to jam a. so say journalists for them, the end of the us occupation at least briefly, was the rest 5. and as that's a v, that should be heard. and often it was not often exam journalists, some journalists did go out to those other areas, and ideally they were, they, arguably that they're reporting wasn't exactly the best either. but overall,

all those journalists to, apart from the notable exceptions that you mentioned, obviously say they were doing their best. just finally, how does this kind of action and this kind of reporting and analysis back fire on the nature of military industrial complex as china and pakistan as you say in your new bees move in. i mean, you said the investment isn't there yet, and there, there are a lot of sanctions that are trying to prevent that. inward investments do afghanistan, and i know the taliban despite the alleged human rights abuses they, they've come on this program, all the deals, all for the name are on cameras in moscow meeting vladimir putin just before grain . the conflict kicked off. what i mean without the analysis of journalism is basically the perceived adversaries of nature. are they going to, are they going to exploit the middle resources? potentially? yes. is the short out so many one. i wouldn't be confident to 100 percent say that

he won't have in 612 months or 2 years. weston and governments, and for that matter, western corporations trying to exploit the resources to me. i see this is on a pause right now. all that would take is a major western nation to recognize the taliban. that may may happen. i mean, i got no insight into that, but i think it should happen tomorrow, but i think it needs to happen to allow potentially those western companies that want to go back into afghanistan to exploit their results. and i don't think that's a good thing, but i think it won't happen while much of the west. in fact, there's no real country in the world right now, including pakistan and my dad does recognize the television. no one has an x. i think something a surprise to tell a band that they were hoping to release pakistan wouldn't others would. china is not officially or they're trying to get lots of mind to the taliban, to be sure. but yes, mean the idea that one would uncritically accept the argument that we should trust either nato forces after the debacle in afghanistan and libya or western

corporations that have tried to exploit resources. as there is somehow the trusted forces to go in there and help the afghan people, yes. can people themselves should have the ultimate say hello, and sent. thank you, and that's it. show will be back on wednesday, the 20th anniversary of the u. s. invasion of afghanistan, code named operation anaconda, until then keep in touch for all our social media. let us know whether you think major countries did the right thing in the have to have a ah, ah ah, ah ah

ah, ah, a ah with move when i was showing the wrong one. i just don't move out date because the advocate and engagement. it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah

street bought sold in some ukranian cities while the surrender without a fight, the russian military operation and visits 5th day. meanwhile, a hope for a diplomatic solution in ukraine, as officials from moscow and kia are supposed to meet on the bellow, russian border un security council calls for a rare emergency session on russia's military operation in ukraine. as western powers try to isolate moscow and e, you close to the test base, the russian flights and analysis is a band or news agencies are the sport nick on their subsidiaries.