ah, hello, and welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle, russia a special military operation and ukraine has changed the world in many ways. it is forcing the u. s. and its allies to rethink and reassess global security. we should not be surprised by this. after all, the post cold war era is over. what will replace it is still open to question. i cross sucking the situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, daniel nick adams in lake jackson. he is the executive director of the ron pol, institute for peace and prosperity in tens mania. we have had see he is a conflict consultant and a retired u. s. foreign service officer. and here in moscow we have maxime suits. gov. he is the director of the center for advanced american studies at moscow state institute for international relations. i gentleman crosswalk rose in effect. that means you

can jump in any time you want and i will appreciate it. i want to say all 3 of you before we get started, we live in very tragic times. we do, we cannot predict the future, but we saw how it failed international order brought about a catastrophe for just about everybody involved. i just want to say that up frontier, daniel, i'm in my introduction. i said we're at the end of the post cold war era. am i right? or am i wrong? go ahead, though you're absolutely right. and there's a, you know, there's a temptation to be too dramatic, but i don't, i don't think you're being over dramatic. i think world has changed significantly since last thursday. the question is, how max, i mean you're on this side of the pond here. all of this was more or less predictable. i mean, none of us, i don't know anyone the predicted the events of last thursday, but we knew we were going in this direction here. russia did not want to find out how to a liberal order. ready that was organized by the united states and its allies, and it was basically our way or the highway. and the russian said no way. go ahead max. yeah, well i think also president food in my view, i saw every other,

every single opportunity to come to, to come up with some diesel agreement, finding a new security architecture interior and several times throughout the 20 plus years of his presidency. every single time she's diplomatic roles turned out ended up in war really in 2008, georgia following the cooling ukraine in 2013 the takeover of crimea and not right now. and right now i work another way for key wind for the entire world and european security. and for russia, a difficult decision made us cast, and it appears that this conflict, russia cannot afford to lose, but also the west doesn't seem to afford to lose. so i imagine things will be getting worse and more especially political domain. yeah. you know, daniel,

that what was it so irritating? i work in media, this is what i do all the time. and the way it's being framed to protect the ukraine's democracy. well, it has nothing to do with ukraine's democracy. you can even say it has one as a topic for another program. this is about security and the indivisibility of security for each state. i mean, this is something that west has talked about since the middle of the cold war. go back to helsinki. okay. but it's not, it, it is only security for certain countries and russia, china, india, others are saying, no, we're not part of your nato world. your fever dream, that security is indivisible for all countries. and unfortunately, ukraine is getting the short end of the stick. go ahead, daniel. you know us, max made a good point in the sense that the west can't afford to lose. and that's a very shocking thing when you think about it, because that what, why, why is that? why can the west not afford to lose? what is the prize here?

as you pointed out in your opening, peter, the u. s. and its allies never had the intention of allowing ukraine to come in. that was never the point, the point of the egging ukraine on, in such a cynical, and i would say murderous manner is using ukraine is a cat's paw to try to regime change russia. that's the big prize, or there's nothing to be gained for the u. s. or for the west, or in quote unquote, a victory on the battlefield. because ukraine will still not be a member of nato. and if it is, it will be kind of a half ass neighbor, a member of nato. so the question is, why are they doing this? why has they pushed this? why did they ignore the december letter that was sent to the secretary blinking? why did they laugh in their face? and it's, it's it massive, massive miscalculation on the part of the west. it doesn't mean they will not have some kind of victory or that they will not hurt russia. but the question again at the end of the day is why, why are they doing this?

why have they pushed ukraine into this position yet? because ted, ted, i'm glad you mentioned your prior experience. a, as a foreign service officer. i mean, i'm not allowing the deal with the west must win this assist in this mantra here, but that to find that, that to it doesn't take into consideration the geopolitical interests of other countries. i mean, the u. s. person pursues a universalist, take ideology. well, that's all fine, i guess for the u. s. and its allies, but it doesn't make any sense why everyone else must accepted it. we a one size fits all that is not acceptable for the majority of the world. the way western media presented it is, this is a global thing that's, it's far from that. go ahead. well, 1st, a quick point on ukrainian democracy. it didn't seem to bother anyone in 2013 when it was unilaterally aggregated. it seems like ukrainian democracy only matters when there's someone in the presidency who's very much opposed to the russian federation . but your other point?

i'm a realist. i've always been a realist. some of my great heroes were foreign service. realists like george canon, probably known as the father and the author of the containment strategy. when he was smart enough to realize that caulking your gun then soviet union was probably nothing the way the best way to get past world war 2 and one base. and so instead he said, well, you know, let's get it a lion circle and politically, what's not, shoot, let's make sure they don't shoot. and that to me was the pharmacy at it. at its finest sense. they were worried about an expansion of soviet union. they did something that didn't involve pointing to many gun. they pointed missiles, which is another topic, again for another show. but in the end diplomacy, one out there was no shooting more between the soviet union. and the problem started pretty much the minute that the soviet union fell apart. and you had george kennan. yes. holding the new york times in 1998. yet nato eastward was

a bad idea whose time should never come and that it would lead eventually to problems. and here we are. and here we are in o maxime. it also presents to support your military industrial complex, all kinds of things. so or not, what you think is turned into some type of conflict with russia that he believes that can sustain. and russia can knock any know when serious was russia, syria conflict. there is no one to help russia except perhaps with the people who understand where things stand in the countries that would love to do trading bilateral terms is things like this. so i think it's a part, it's an open ended. yeah, i think it's a range and this whole discussion about swift and all of this. but actually what it ends up doing is it continues the d dollarization of the global economy and loop,

and let and lessening the what do you, i saw it, it's really a self inflicted wounds. but because every, with the emotions rule right now, not reason unfortunately, are i gentlemen, i'm going to jump in here way to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the situation in ukraine. stay with our ah ah, with industry to restock and just look up some of natalie a muscle around noon. she kitty doesn't being in the green shield on a nurse to me as possible. mama cook gas goose creek. suddenly tim cut to his ashley of dc. wanted to work with, i wonder if it's pretty cool with you but not,

but the key chain of trying to network for phones or something like that. and then we got that voice id id with to have them talk driven by trainer shaped by concur some of those with who dares sinks. we dare to ask oh, look forward to talking to you. oh,

that technology should work for people with a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except when such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously is to great trust, rather than fear. a very job with artificial intelligence, real summoning with a robot must protect his own existence with a welcome back across like where all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the situation in ukraine. ah

okay, let's go back to genuine. in late jackson, m, as we're convening here, there is a, it's in news is broken that down north stream to the company that is running and at least it's administrative part is laid off its employees and may apply for bankruptcy. who wins? when this happens, daniel? well, certainly not, the german people will be interesting to see what the political fallout will be for the just breaking in new german chancellor who's shown himself to be even more hawkish than his predecessor, which is pretty surprising. but the shock was we felt throughout europe. i think when this, when energy prices, i think of already increased by 40 percent. when trade shuts down, ah, there's going to be a real cost to pay for this. a misadventure. and it will be borne by people, as i mentioned in the beginning, for the 1st time, probably ever, directly. we always have inflation, which is a hidden tax, which is the burden of the u. s. military empire. and americans don't necessarily

feel it directly or they don't sense it. but i think this will have a more direct impact. and we'll see at the end of the day when the bumper stickers have been peeled off, the cars when people have taken the i heart ukraine off of their facebook feeling like they're great warriors for this great downtrodden country. when all that is said and done, we'll see what happens. you know, you know, ted, it's, it's never really been about ukraine has it in, in because, you know, i've been to ukraine many, many times i've, i've studied the country's history and whatnot, particularly in the more it's most a recent history. and when i look at the commentary, supposedly from smart people, they really don't know anything about the country whatsoever. i, as you pointed out in your 1st answer here, i mean, zelinski is base again, a product of what was a coup against a democratically elected government. okay. and as you know, before hostility started a major paula opposition, figures were under house arrest being tried for treason, and you have major news outlets are being shut down, left right,

and center. the u. the u. s. state department actually cheering it on calling it courageous to shut down free media. ok, it's not about ukraine. it's a cudgel ukraine. it's a cudgel. and at the end of the day, it will just, it would have served its purpose. it's never going to be in nato. it's never going to be in the you go ahead, ted. i couldn't agree more. one of the other real is that i'm a big fan of john maritime or been just really direct about this. and he said, among other things that nato proved in 2014, that it had no interest in defending ukraine, or else it would have involved itself, militarily. it didn't, therefore, any future promises. eventual membership is completely hollow. they're not interested, as you say, in ukraine as you and whack moscow with and you know, i had thought we had moved beyond that phase, but as you say, the cold, the post cold war order is crumbling and god help us to see what's coming next.

maxime, max, what is the new cold war then? i mean, because i've said now for a number of weeks at the post cold war order is over, i don't know. do we call the new cold war, or do we call it something else? ok, because it seems now for the time being maybe for a generation that's what i've said in the past year. there's a breach now between russia and the west. what does that mean for russia? you know, i think i, when i, when i was looking at all the developments in the past few days of the matter were i kind of had, in my mind of what's going on in the world is kind of, i think we're experiencing the so called the shot of the future, you know, and, and what i mean by that is that everyone had a certain vision for how things will develop in the future. like we have in madison on the one hand, in china. the other hand, in old countries are kind of trying to find was wanting between what it looks now is indeed our disagree with the end of the post cold war. and the beginning of

something new appears to be dramatically different from what we thought that would be even best we. hm. we're seeing a dramatic, a deep look foreman or an attempt to dramatically deep look for russia from every single, you know, political, economic, and social institution out there, west dominated. but at the same time, in my view, in the low wrong, even in the mid term, we give this institutions for now, you know, in the few days that are seeing these conflicts, the biggest winner so far, in my opinion, are united states and china. and you know, what, what will happen to russia in europe is, is a big, well known to me personally, but i think it, at the end of the conflict, no matter how and, and who is of the biggest loser. the west globally loses because it

loses a certain big chunk of its culture, of its history. intentionally not just loses a just rejecting, in this cultural denial that they talked about is now seen. i was local scale and i think it will hurt the west a lot of over russia to i'm pretty sure about that. yeah. but, you know, yes, i mean, i obviously there, there know, and then there are consequences for russia, obviously. okay. i live here. i know what's going on with the russian rouble. so do you, my friend. all right, you know, mcdaniel, i think one in the longer term, right? the, i truly believe that russia is go to survive all of this. okay. america cutting off from a lot of the western culture and stuff like that is perfectly fine with me. i don't, i'm not interested in all that kind of nonsense as woke ism and stuff like that. but i think some of the, the, it's the europeans because the europeans have shown themselves to be feckless and powerless over their own destiny. still 75 years after the 2nd world war. and they

won't even stand up for their own. i am energy security here. i mean, as we speak right now, the, the, they let their storage levels are, it's a historic lows and they're going to have a lot of problems filling them up for the next winter here. but they're not interested in their own sovereignty. they're more interested in genuflecting and things like that to the united states. the europe is going to suffer for this here . okay. they, they basically had stagflation for a, for a decade. it's only going to get worse. go ahead, daniel. well as the head of m, i 6 said yesterday, i think it was, this is a war for l g b t q writes, it's an amazing thing for the head of british intelligence to frame it in that way . so we book isn't, yeah, it's woke, isn't it the highest level. but what's shocking peter here in the united states is the level of hysteria, the level of absolute ferociousness against anyone who might question that, you know, i was on capitol hill working for dr. paul, in 2002 in the iraq war was coming in. of course he was called everything from a,

from a saddam lover to a terrorist lover. it's a different world now. it's much worse than that. my good friend, colonel douglas macgregor, was on fox news and simply gave a dispassionate assessment of the battlefield situation and ukraine, which in fact is accurate and will be accurate. and russia will win the military conflict, but simply pointing out the battlefield situations to the person who writes books on military strategy. fox news felt it necessary to have a correspondent come on after him and say, i just have to correct that previous speaker. this is a person that's not fit to do such a thing. so the propaganda level is amazing. but this is a perfect storm in america. that's where the propaganda is insane. because the russia gators who they are. exactly, russia is, has made trump, president controls everything even the day and night they feel vindicated. now see, we told you the whole thing is real, our lord is coming,

but then you have the right wingers biden is weak if white and it had been so weak, russia never would have done this. this is a perfect storm of left wingers and right wingers, neil collins and left neocons and the the strangle hold on speech. here in the united states, i have never seen anything like it. you know, 10 i was thinking exactly the same thing is that, you know, it particularly on cable tv, you know, its about scoring points for your team. and it's all about how you feel about trump, or, or biden. and you know, you're creating a put no to all of it. ok, because they're not interested in ukraine. they're interested in scoring points and they're interested in preserving their ideological outlook. go ahead 10. i couldn't agree more. i couldn't agree more. and you look at the headlines, for example, in new york times, and it accuses president of engaging in conspiracy theory. when he talks about zelinski is remarks at the munich security conference this year. when he said that

he was going to revisit the budapest men or memorandum on the dean nuclear ization of ukraine. which is, i mean, that's a kind of spell i right there. i'm sorry, that is a legitimate concern for a government on their border. and president was very clearly listening when he said that. but according to the times that makes a conspiracy, the only problem here is that people forget that not only is security indivisible. so his credibility and the new york times also said that people who were saying that there was anything other than a natural origin for stars co be to where conspiracy theorists until a few months later they had to admit, well, actually it looks like it came out of a lab somewhere, you know, a maxime and this is all said and done. it will. all, it will, at least in the west will all be about domestic politics. i mean, you have the, the british foreign minister. she comes here and she basically backstab sir boss. i mean,

it was all about her own career about politics in the u. k. i had really nothing to do with russia. she was completely unprepared. she didn't know what she was talking about. didn't even know the geography of russia. it's all about scoring points for your team. and again, pursuing this ideology ahead max. while i read about the rest, the polish, the problem with that is that the keys and not americans in that sense, is not part of your competitors for a little while. and especially the are ph and in the escalated thinking. it will just remain in economic domains and will not go over to other domains. i think is tremendous mistake. and the problem is, if it does go out to military doreen, it's not gonna be just another war. a west is going to wash and she's been follow on twitter. it will dramatically changed the way of life that people are used to. and it actually is a factor of the less in talk about gasoline prices, but of just the beginning of

a massive crisis. so, you know, it may be very different from what we've seen in the beginning. if it continues, i'll come to, you know, you know, i, daniel and in the name of protecting ukraine, so called democracy and the american political elites, or destroying democracy at home. 10 seconds, go ahead. they are and how short the memories are, the united states bond yugoslavia, serbia, for $78.00 days straight. they bomb baghdad or 40 days straight. they destroyed the entire infrastructure, the country, they destroyed the water supply. nobody's talking about a car to leads russians on fox news. and the fox news anchor said, what, when you invade a current, a sovereign country, that's a war crime, isn't it? and she just stood there and smiled and shook her head. this is the world that we live in. it's a world of our own creation. yeah. okay. no introspection,

no honesty whatsoever. it's completely exhausted. okay. or a gentleman that's all the time we have many, thanks am i get some tens mania like jackson and here in moscow. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time? remember cross top roles. ah ah ah. ah no, it's not a while you while div easy while furnace us. ah. yeah. when you, when flight yet if south. yeah. rush south with that then your duck. awesome voice. now watch.

done the for me at that a bull up right. pete on the is in minneapolis radio from sheila. this is kim's room. she thought. did you say the rocky ella? a building? yes. my thought watching in the, in the you watching pretty up in the be a lot about this morning. so a good is your media reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe,

isolation, whole community? are you going the right way, or are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence at the point, obviously is to place trust rather than fear. i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence,

real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with a ukrainian president's office confirmed. the 2nd round of talks with moscow was set to start on wednesday evening. kiev ads. it's ready to negotiate, but not except to russian ultimate, a day, 7 of russia's military operation in ukraine. moscow confirms that attacked a television tower and hit russia also claims to have taken control of the southern city of kirsten. but the ukrainian side says the fighting is still ongoing. a hand from the other side of the conflict. horrific destruction of homes in the aftermath of a battle in the dawn boss region where the wounded,

including children require medical assistance with scary, scary, but i'm afraid my room is me as a base.