also, new york, we have michael hudson. he is a professor of economics at the university of missouri, kansas city, as well as author forgive them their debts and in prague. we have red blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n, a freelance reporter for sure why as well as an rti contributor or a gentleman cross that grows in effect, that means you can jump in any time you want and i will appreciate it, michael, let me go to you 1st in new york, this is the 1st time in our history, the global reserve currency. the dollar is being used as a weapon against the g 20 country. what is the significance of that? well, i think it's trying to speed that part in guest. since america one of gold and 1971, it's been the great beneficiary, other countries holding their reserves in dollars. that meant when the banks in europe are even russia, old dollars, they buy us treasury bills and essentially they're lending their money to the us treasury, supporting the dollar and the balance of payments. and now that's what is enabled

america to afford trade deficit. and it's military deficit all over the world. well now the americans isolating other countries from the dollar is losing the whole free lunch that have been getting for the last 50 years. and it's telling other countries, if we don't like what you're doing, we can do what we did with like an a stand. we can just grab all your money and or we can do what england and venezuela go. and we can say that all the way from the country to elected their own leader, if their leader does something that the united states doesn't the, let's give it to a leader that we approve of. so all of a sudden other countries are afraid not only to keep their international reserves and dollars their trade even to do trade out denominated in dollars. and most oil trade is always been denominated dollars, because all of a sudden the united states can say we're, we're, we're going to block you from getting a payment. we don't like what you're doing and we're not going to invade you

momentarily. we're just going to block, you're doing any business to get something you need. we need a strangle hold over you. because if we don't have that, we feel insecure. we feel under attack, if we can't control who's running your government. and if we can't control your trade, so they put a block on, on the dollar. and this is created and blocking trade patterns. if countries can do their trade in dollars or without western europe and america, they're going to trade with each other. well america. but then the u. s. is not a net benefit beneficiary of this type of policy. let me go to daniel here. i mean, i'm calling this, this program a great separation. and this is what's happening here. the, the, the, the financial markets being, you know, basically it's, it's the u. s. picking winners and losers. and that's not what a fee hot currency is supposed to do. ok, i don't know why anybody would want to hold on to dollars here. and it, it, it'd be a demonstration effect for other others around the world where if they want, they,

if they were going to choose their own kind of economic sovereignty, they're gonna have to look over their shoulder. you know, this isn't for me, this is so short sighted a theat currency should be not politicize and it's getting worse and worse. and the chinese obviously are watching very carefully on how these sanctions are being applied to russia. having said that gentleman, ever since 2014 rush has been preparing for a day like this, go ahead, daniel. i agreement the privacy, china. i would be very, very worried. i mean, at the u. s, i could turn these that tools around, apply them to china's, well, if china also somehow steps out of line. sorry. and i've said this where i would say with a yes, well this if i was china, i would be extremely concerned as to where this is all going and the, and the rivaling powers of the us, cecily wielding over the international financial markets and international trade.

it's really, it's, i really am very ominous. i've developed, you know, brand, it seems to me the more the u. s. in its allies. what am maintain, it's a gemini in the world, the more they lose it because the merriment when they're most valuable tools has been the dollar and the financial system that it created. now, if it's going to be used this way, more and more people will obviously want to move away from it. i mean, if you're being told that you can't trade because of and other countries behavior, you're going to start thinking twice here. and i've been looking at this great separation for quite a few years now we're talking about financially, but it's happening in other ways as well. and you know, there's going to be where i think we're coming back to a bipolar world. that it's going to be a russia, china, and regions, and it's going to be the u. s. in its allies. we're going to have separate internet separate banking system. there won't be as much conductivity. we're going into a very different world, your thoughts, brad? go ahead. well i thought that recently this week, john merchant had

a very illuminating interview with the new yorker. exactly about this. i don't think that we're moving into necessarily a bipolar world. because i know it's true that russia and china are joining together. i see them as rather distinct. and i also think that russian leadership doesn't want to be hard to agree. i agree, so that from that perspective, with the united states, if it wants to maintain its head you money, or compete with basing should be trying to take russia away from china and its actions continue to push russia closer to china. in fact, a west mitchell who was under secretary state for your asian affairs, articulated this and pentagon reporter. and he said, actually that united states need to provide carrots on a stick to make russia and try to compete against each other. and that is the exact opposite of what's happening right now. everything that they're doing is pushing china and russia closer together, especially unplugging,

russia from swift. this is the 1st thing you know, rush has been developing. it's alternative. and so it's china. and though i think that the, the ability for them to replace that is a bit overstated at times the fact that it's happening in the fact that, you know, the direction is going that way is, is very problematic for us dollar has mon, i also think for example, i've seen today that the u. s. is mulling over sanctions against india. yes. for trading with russia, that would destroy the u. s. in the pacific strategy trying to leverage its relationship, india to isolate china. and the thing is, is that we're talking so much about how the world is against russia right now. but if you look at the un resolution that was passed most the countries didn't say anything. yeah. and most, if you look at, for example, pakistan, india, brazil, china, that alone is more people in the world than the western countries in america that are trying to russia. and it will in fact, as you said,

create this bifurcated world. and michael, one of the things i find very interesting is that it, washington and its allies and punishing russia for its military operation in ukraine. is that they think that they, that there's either going to have some kind of for now they some kind of an game here. but it seems to me that the sanctions here there to say it's a, it's a message to rush and other countries like and say, you know, we're done with you people, okay. you say this is temporary change, your behavior will let you back into the club. i'll let you sit at the table. i think it's one way. it's a one way direction right now it's a done with you. people here, you know, nord stream to you, asked russia to build it. we built it and then you don't want it. okay, why should we deal with you people? you people are not serious, michael? well, these sanctions are not since mainly against russia. they're mainly against europe . the sanction? yes, yes, exactly. america wants to hold here in the us orbit. the sanctions or the iron curtain to lock here in the us. it's not to exclude russia. america just wants to

control europe and it wants to control the world oil trade because that's the key to it's a international power. it's of course in europe and germany to pay huge amount of a for a gas, huge amounts to buy american liquefied natural gas, not russian gas. this is going to, in germany, is a major international manufacturing power. germany's cost structure is going to go up. so hi, this going to political break away. so ultimately, the question is, will america sanctions dr. europe, out of the american orbit, just like striving out russia out of the well yeah, let me, let me go to daniel on that. i mean that, that's probably the biggest surprise or disappointment for me is because of all countries in europe, germany could have sit up and said, hey, hey, everybody needs to slow down right now because it's the,

it's the engine of economic growth in europe. and i can, you know, i can see how the americans want to maintain it and exclude russia. but it's kind of a cheap consolation prize because you get it, you know, if europe isn't dynamic, then what's it worth? go ahead. oh yeah. but let's, let's be realistic. here, i mean, i'm in russia by mounting this vision essentially has done web to have with brad, could have done, which is to unified data. so essentially this, this, this unification now is imposed by the war, or, you know, i mean, i oppose it a couple of weeks ago, germany was giving signs of going its own way, was resisting pressure. the close down word string to now with that word, germany was flowing into line of the rest of the e. u, and of course, great britain, australia, etc, etc. are as well. some have said, i mean, so essentially, jen bryant is a brilliant over what's happened because, you know,

with essentially he is achieved the unification that was previously so elusive, increasingly elusive in fact. but i'd like to do you think they understand the cost? i mean, look at that, they could the price structure of energy right now. i mean, it's really easy. do you know, to stand up and say, this is terrible, it's wrong and all that. but when you said that in the next day, you begin to realize what it's going to cost. you know, i, i think that there's a big a division between what your heart is telling you and what your brain is going to tell you later. because europe is going to suffer quite so strenuously after this. i mean, 1st of all, i don't see a return on the, i think i said there's one direction. there's not going to be any mending offenses and there's going to be a lot of restructuring on, on all sides here. michael, them, you know you real quick here before we go to the big, you're nodding your head, that's what i'm going to go ahead. i'm just not again agree in agreement that it's as if america is shooting, it's open the book as they say,

it's like it's trying to bully europe into dependency on the united states and at a certain point are the leaders of europe are also pro american. there on the american april virtually. but how long can you fool the borders of europe? and they realize wait, and we don't. ah, why can't we have leaders who are promoting our own economy rather than helping id badge i've been here gentlemen. me to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on globalization interrupted. stay with our team. ah ah ah, with industry, i'm only stock and just look up for you. i'm not only

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welcome back to cross top, were all things are considered non peter labelle, to remind you we're discussing globalization interrupted with . okay, let's go back to brad in prague. here we've already mentioned a little bit in this program about china's reaction here. it seems to me that the way the, the chinese are watching the, what's going on with the sanctioning of the russian economy is it could be a potential dry run against them. what do you think lessons that they're learning from this here, and obviously you're not speaking for the chinese. go ahead. right. so 1st of all, i think that they are realizing very quickly that they, you know, even if they want to stake out a neutral position, they are going to be brought into it. because for example,

recently the new york times did an article saying that the chinese knew about the russian invasion and asked who to personally or but they, russian officials to postpone the invasion and ukraine until after the olympic game . before all of this took place, we saw that the americans were reaching out to china in an effort to try to calm the situation. so there's kind of this idea that that china is pulling the strings of course paging denies it. but i think that this is really just an attempt to tie all of russia actions to china in an effort to degrade china's reputation in the international state, even though it has always consistently taken an online mission. and then in terms of what's happening with essentially, this is very, very important, of course. and so i think that they're really paying attention to maybe not the reaction in the west because that's to be expected, right? but the reaction in, especially the global south marion for global south countries like india, brazil,

for example, countries in the middle east. and i think that they're really looking at this. and you know, if you, for example, if you go and chinese social media or perhaps any social meet outside the west, you can really get the idea that people have a nuance take of this. people aren't so polarized as they are in the west where you have to believe that hitler and this man. and then, you know, of course, russia has its own opinion that, you know, blamed the west for the whole situation. but i think people around the world are that are not in these countries. that is the majority of people in the world are looking at this. like, yeah, that could have been avoidable. our hearts are, you know, with the people of ukraine. but of course, we principally stand against nato's aggression. that is what this point. it's a very good point here, daniel. you know, if we look at, we prices going up dramatically here. obviously rush is a very important export. a lot of people don't know that, but it's the largest export of wheat and grain in the world of ukraine is not too

far behind. and i don't think they're going to be exporting much grain in the, in the near future. unfortunately for them. but the people to get hit the most by it are the poor countries in the world. you know, they, these, you know, these, these laser folk focus sanctions and, you know, all this, i personally attached to it this, it has a much greater ripple effect. and we've seen like countries like the rad being sanctioned. go ahead. oh, that's our data. the correct us. i mean, inflation is getting a major push from these sanctions are, there's no doubt and certainly the energy prices, energy prices, earth are skyrocketing. that'll certainly hit the global south very, very hard, and we'll have germany that europe and the u. s. as well. i'm in the u. s. is that kind of the business member important that price gauge in the u. s. of gasoline and gasoline is the shooting upwards of that is, you know, that is something that hits every american in the pocket book and makes them very

angry and does not all grow well for the democrats that chances this coming november. i say yes, and this is going to have a major impact. i mean, i think the global economy is going to take a huge hit from this from this and will be really driven downward across the board. here michael, i mean a great if you look at like the arab spring or what i call the sunni winter and you know, grain prices late a very important role in the instability of that region here. and now we're seeing and again, and considering the what would cove it did and global trade. and now you throw this on here. i mean, you have some of these economies just barely recovering. and now this is a double whammy on top of them. and of course, you know, i want to keep stressing the europeans are going to feel this to, with energy prices here. so there's a cascade effect all a re, well, go ahead. well, you're right in bringing up a, which is already made many of the 3rd world countries, a global south countries strap. what this means is they're already unable either

foreign deaths and especially with higher food import prices and higher energy prices. there's going to be debt defaults. and that's going to have a repercussions all down the financial system quite apart from the trade system. and it's going to affect us bondholders. it will affect us banks. and basically it's going to force or i think the 3rd world in asian. and here's an opening for china and russia to put in an alternative to the international monetary fund and the debt. so this is, this is just opening them to say, look, this system that's driving your bankrupt is bankrupting you. so american can come in and grab your raw materials, privatize your industries. there's another way of organizing the world. and that's what the ukraine or is really about. another way of organizing the world economy and the world. you know, brad, there's a number of programs on the world beyond the west and, you know,

and i'm talking about the great separation here. just an echo what michael was saying here. the financial institutions that are controlled by the west, primarily the united states. they don't seem to be servicing all people are necessarily only the, the specific political aims of the united states and its allies. this is another good reason to go beyond the west. go ahead, brad. well, even before this situation with ukraine, we already saw that the bad decision to raise rates was going to essentially, artificially induced the recession have to hold inflation, which would put people out of work and create even more suffering, not only in the united states, but particularly in the developing world, this would get people more than that and even president chinese president, she thing was we're, we're morning about this at the world economic forum. so for sure. i mean, i think that people understand, i think, since the 2000 and they financial crisis, people have understood that, you know, the people that are managing the american economy or not,

let's say the most savvy individuals. and they're certainly not looking after everybody's best interests. and i think that this is probably another example that you said, yeah, you know, this war is a tragedy. it truly is, it is terrible. but you know, it's going to cause a lot of suffering for other people. i don't mean to take away from what people are going through, but this is going to affect the entire world. this is going to affect, certainly hundreds of millions of people in russia as it already is. but also around the world. i think that's something that these countries, particularly in europe don't understand, like they just principally do not understand that their actions will have very dire consequences for the world. it will stabilize the world. and i'm very afraid that there are many liberal internationalists that actually want that particularly with russia. they believe that causing harm to the russian. people is going to create a situation where there could be regime regime change in russia. and that is a just mind blowing. lee, really thing to pursue at this time. you know,

i think that yeah, i mean you, you're absolutely, i mean a brad, i mean that's a fever dream. i know that's, that's a dream that so many people have in washington and around washington. that's how they make their living. ok, i mean, you know, what's the next plan to destabilize the next country. ok. but dent mcdaniel. you know what? what do you think? is there a great separation going on in my, exaggerating this? is there too much to it because it seems to me that they like repeating myself a little bit, but you know, they apply these sanctions to see if they can get a positive reaction as they see it. and if they don't get it, they imply more sanctions. and then you get to a point, well, why have any interaction whatsoever? there's business elsewhere, you know, and russian energy, it's in demand all around the world. ok? it's not in europe is you know, that that's not their only point of destination. i mean, the, i think what this fever, dream of, you know, crushing russia is. that's what it is. it's a fever dream. daniel. well, i mean, 1st of all, call that includes sac great separation is almost to kind,

i mean the separation, they want to move in for the kill and 1997 and as best seller, the grand chessboard, a screener, rab regency club for ringing russia. they were they, as a series of hostile states, the ukraine, 1st and foremost, and then breaking it up into 3 parts. a european russia, siberian russia are eastern russia. wow, yes. what i mean there, the opportunity 25 years later is now upon if they can have regime change in russia, which they're certainly hoping for. then they can move for the actual physical breakup of russia. that is what is on the agenda here, i think is no doubt about that. yeah. and so, yeah, you know what, i'll go if i can take from that michael and in doing so, the european union will collapse. ok, and nato will have shown itself to be

a paper tiger that this is something they're chewing on that they're not going to be able to digest my opinion. michael, go ahead. well, apart from being a paper tiger, it's obvious that nato was not offensive. no, no country is going to invade any other major country anymore. nato is an offensive organization. and the question is, does he want to be part of an american open and get involved in afghanistan in the near east and in africa that the united states are setting up the fight under the chinese there. so all of a sudden it is europe going to remember to rise? well, germany's re militarize in and even though it's running into a depression, it's increased, it's military spending to more than 2 percent of g. d. p. as in effect, europe is acting as if nato is running its foreign policy and domestic policy and nato's following us a policy. so at a certain point,

the nationalistic parties in europe on the right are leading or the let me, let me finish with brad in prague. you just heard michael, that did anyone in the european union vote for that agenda one minute to brad? you know, i just really hope that the liberal internationalists don't have their way. and as there's piece talks right now and people are pushing for diplomatic solutions, conflict, i just hope that people give russia a viable off ramp that could include rethinking unplugging, russia from swift, rethinking the sanctions, the asset seizures, rethinking the racist policies against russian people. and, you know, bringing ukraine's political neutrality on the table. i really hope that we can have that conversation that we can put it ended up grabbing, grabs to get brad. everything you said is very reasonable in all of those things were on the agenda for months as this crisis brewed. okay. it was all on the agenda and no one in the west wanted to listen. and here we are. it's

tragic or i gentlemen, that's all the time we have. i want to thank my guess in new york, prague, and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here at ortiz. see you next time and remember, prostitute rules ah, ah, ah. h a z a still up on the other story and scott, i don't know who to support what kind of missed the with the way would it be on the good news?

you to put you put huge, but you will, more difficult does was to link it to setup on a bus to load your school or throw that on your student that has been visible just you said i just laid in a, sitting here with you with him push a boy, somebody see wayne lee could i do to come by soon? oh, i was sure seemed wrong when i just don't. i mean you? yes to shape out the same because the african and engagement. it was the trail.

when so many find themselves, well the part we choose to look so common ground. oh, is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community? are you going the right way? or are you being that somewhere? direct what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the shallows.

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