ah, ah, i ah, i mentioned retention. we're going on the ground in a week where our t was banned by the european union. this says joe biden made his 1st stage of the union address as president of the united states where he warned russian president vladimir putin would bay high price for his invasion of ukraine. while promising us forces won't fight the russian military in ukraine. it's also 76 years to the day that you k prime minister, winston churchill made his famous iron curtain speech to the usa in which he warned

against the spread of soviet communism. now let's go straight to washington d. c. to speak to the u. s. s. former un ambassador and president all trump's national security advisor, john bolton, for this very special edition of going underground. ambassador, thanks so much for coming back on. so joe biden ended his say to the union with the words, get him in the style of her previous officials against the summer. been loudon? perhaps he spending the weekend at camp. david, if you were still national security advisor, what would you be telling joe biden? to do well, i'd be saying that until the russian energy sector is effectively collapsed. putin has no incentive to give up his on going offensive in ukraine. and honestly, with oil prices, what they are, even if russia has to sell a discount, it's still making money off this war and, and ever it, there's every reason to think, he'll continue until he achieves what, whatever his objectives, ukraine are. you know, the failure here is not,

is not that we're not imposing sanctions on food. the failure is we failed to turn . and the cost of that failure is now being borne by the ukrainian people and it will be borne by russians. and by the way, it will be borne by europeans and americans to is the price oil goes up. so it, so being content with a long dragged out process is not, is not in our interest. so what, from your point of view, this war is being financed in effect by europeans buying russian energy resources that supply 40 percent of the market. right. i mean, right now as the war's progressing, oil and gas are still being transmitted through pipelines all across europe. and russia is being reimbursed for them despite sanctions to take some russian banks out of the swift system. 2 of the 3 top russian banks are still receiving payments because their energy related the united states is still importing oil from russia.

really, pretty incredible. and in the meantime, the russian military, which has had its problems that ukraine is grinding down opposition and even car key and ukrainians have defended themselves heroically. but the correlation of forces used to say in soviet days, very much against them and time will not be on their side. yeah, get to the war in the 2nd. i mean, russia says it's all going to plan, of course, as you'd expect. but as regards the energy resources, what did you make as a level of saying americans are dictating to the germans? what is good for european energy security? and then they're trying to impose their own view of the future of europe, napoleon and hitler, they had the objective to have the whole of europe under their control. now americans have got europe under control. you think they're listening to what level is saying, which is why they're not listening to you? i doubt it because i don't think the americans really care about haven't europe under control. frankly. i think what we're telling germany and others in europe now

is exactly what ronald reagan told margaret thatcher and other european leaders in the 1980s do not become totally dependent on russian oil and gas. and for all we can tell the new german chancellor has just agreed with that. so, but it takes time to shift to, to build offloading facilities for liquefied natural gas to construct new pipelines . and, you know, it should be common sense to the europeans that you want multiple potential suppliers for your energy resources. and i think they've now learned that less you just said americans don't care whether they control europe. obviously, the u. s. by clearly cared about influencing europe for decades and all this, he will have a measure of control of liquefied natural gas comes from the united states to rule on rule of port structures that are rapidly being created on in europe. well, what we're concerned about in europe is the security and safety of the united states. and since 1945, we believe that a secure europe is in america's best interest. but frankly,

what goes on in europe. beyond that, that is really not something that most americans care about because they don't really care about about these kinds of things and other parts of the world. we would like to be safe and secure. and that means making sure the europeans don't lapse into yet another world war like the 1st 2 hot boers and much of the cold war fought europe as well. yeah, but i mean, is the united states has been funding ukraine for well, since a 2014, since the coo, i mean, you can see that there are 2 sides being given on the story. one side is russia is trying to end the brutal put regime from 2014 finance by the united states in the heart of europe, so it can no longer kill people. they're 14000 dead. but that's the hall of mirrors view of what happened in ukraine in 2014 and unfortunately the ukrainian people who are paying for that misperception. so what is the price that by doing

a name check to the say to the union, he said, pigeon must pay a price. what is that price that will maybe maybe jake sullivan and entity blinking when to charge fusion? well, i don't think they know, i mean, if you, if you are concerned about the war that's being conducted in ukraine now, you should have been more concerned about it before it start. because every day that goes by, the cost of the war that goes up and i think what good is counting on and he may be right, is whenever this ends and almost however it ends, he's counting on european memories to be sure. and for the sang to this is here, and i have to say based on the history we've seen, i'm not counting on european resolved to keep the sanctions in place. that's the play that, that potent has made. and as he said to me on several occasions, you have your logic, we have our logic will see which one prevails. wait, so i mean, i'm going to defend biden, i suppose, in his team they, they were,

they were warning. and us intelligence which has, again such a lack of respect, obviously since iraq, they did successfully warned him that this time read. but they fail, you know, deterrence is not intended to equate the failure of deterrence with the punishment that comes later success in constructing structures of the turns is to make sure the war doesn't happen and those fail. so obviously all of the messages being sent to put were not sufficient. and you and back to what you were just saying about sanctions. you do expect to exit to lapse very swiftly would after a completion of military operations as seen for moscow and mission accomplish, statement from boot in the gremlin. look my prediction. i've been making it for months. i might as well keep making it now. it can't, it can't get any better. any worse is, i don't think potent wants all of ukraine under russian control. i think he wants the eastern and southern parts of the country wants control of the north coast of

the black sea. and i think if he, if he had his brothers, he'd set up a v. france kind of government in the rest of ukraine. he may not be able to get that, but if he all controls the eastern southern parts of the country, i think a lot of europeans and honestly, a lot of americans would say is that all j could have been a lot worse. let's go back to business as usual. well, because in pod, i mean you may not like it, but the pol in pod oversee. there's this fear of a nuclear war which is kept on cropping up even on major news. bulletins. i mean, is he only here who clear war here is because food and said he was changing the alert status of russia. nuclear forces, i think whenever somebody does that, you have to take it seriously. but you also have to try and analyze it objectively . i think it's a bluff intended to intimidate some rosters and he has succeeded in part, but i don't think it's a serious threat. secretary general of nato basically said the same thing, wasn't it when president lens,

he said he was gonna have to reevaluate the nuclear bombs of positioning because of the creation of ukraine and the destruction of the nuclear weapons. we were drawing of their nuclear weapons as gated on ukraine being a whole state. well, i think there is a little bit of misinformation in history here though, those were always soviet nuclear weapons. they were never under keeps command and control. but i think what he is reflecting properly is the great powers gave you crane assurance of the territorial integrity of the state, which is obviously been breached by one of the signatory parties to the treaty. namely, russia. can you understand why in most of the world, despite the international community, clearly meeting with the usa and it's cassini, albania, the un general assembly, most of the world could be forgiven for thinking that the fear of nuclear weapons means that in effect, nato is using ukraine against russia, while refusing to fight against russia in the actual theater of war pouring in

weapons to a country which does not have the military capacity to defeat russia. i don't know for what particular reason, because obviously it's going to prolong the war and prolong the number of casualty reports. daily. well, had it been done properly by the biden administration, which it wasn't the supply of weapons, adequate training in the weapons used to the weapons would have been intended to raise the human cost to the russian government for any invasion. and that should cause deterrence, but i don't think enough weapons were shipped in. i don't think we put enough u. s. and nato trainers. and you know, we had special operations forces in ukraine working with the ukranian military right up until a few weeks ago. and our people didn't want to leave because they could see what was going to happen. they could see this russian build up on the border and they wanted to stay and help the ukrainians. and it's, it's a, i think,

providing he faces real risks here that he goals he will be saying is having done too little too late. if russian forces continue to bomb ukrainian cities and grind down its population. but we can verify any reports, obviously about what to say in ukraine said just before the invasion and a but that again, those back to the point that the pouring in of weapons right now. once the invasion started is prolonging the will and will kill more ukrainians. and russians before the ultimate victory of russia, even believe in people believe in fighting for their independence are obviously willing to do what it takes to, to achieve it. and it's not like there's a threat of ukraine and bating russia. i think it's pretty clear to everybody what's going on here. why do you think it was so important to for washington, even before the invasion, to do that training and risk world war 3? is it now apparently appears as

a commonplace in nature nation media. even though there is no way that ukraine could join nato because under the minsk agreement ratified by washington and london had the security council. have said that the, the disputed areas of lou hands can done yet, must be recognized, which would mean disputed areas, which would mean ukraine can't even join data. well, that's a crisis that russia's created by illegally crossing international boundaries and, and annex in the crimea, which the united states doesn't recognize as ever recognize incorporation. to start a live in lithuania, into the soviet union, nato, as a defensive alliance. everybody understands that i think clearly what pollutant is doing. he announced in his speech to the state, duma, 2005. when he said the breakup, soviet union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe. and the 20th century that was, that was potent view and ukraine never quite happy that the soviet union broke up

and they're not looking to get the gang back together again. that's what this war is about. it's a war imperial conquests by a czarist president in moscow. i don't think anyone recognizes nature as a defensive alliance, arguably. i know that the talking point repeated in nature, nations, but no history. my history will bear me out on that master. i'll stop you there more from the 27th national security advisor of united states after this break. ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order to conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to create trust rather than fear

a job with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on offensive, very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult time time to sit down and talk with welcome back. i'm still here with the vollmer, usm, best of you and, and the 27th us national security advisor, john bolton,

when you mentioned the imperial power, then is it the case and we've talked to russians here and challenged them, who've been so critical of us foreign paula in libya, rock syria, left cat has done. is it a case that russians just doing what the united states did, supported by you? and the parallels here of u. s. interference in the countries since 911. great, let's take it one by one. but let's start a little earlier than 911 and the u. s. has invaded iraq twice the 1st time because iraq invaded kuwait and in order to restore sovereignty to kuwait, we went into iraq and basically destroyed its army. now in retrospect, we probably should have done more, but that's the kind of situation in which the u. s. has historically fought, not because we want territory for ourselves, not because we seek economic advantage, but because one of our friends or allies has been invaded by somebody else,

that's what's happening in ukraine today. and the difference between russian actions and us just about as clear as it could be. your line of argument is like the, the old saying that here you've got a, an old lady in the, in the, near the path of a bus that's out of control. a $11.00 man comes up to or pushes or in the front of the bus. another man comes up to her and pushes her away from the bus. and somebody says, well, you know, both these people are just pushing old ladies around. sure, a claim for that one. okay, but i mean, you know that the united, i mean it does not mean that you would have supported this kind of military action or a singer, missiles and so on being sent off to the referendum that of his, he was not accepted by nato nations in crimea, recognizing the crimea was brought to russia. but what we wanted to do in crimea was work with the government of ukraine, which was not in

a position to engage in any military activity in crimea after it was an ex, but through no diplomatic measures to get the russians to reverse. this is something that we said in 1945 was never going to happen in europe again, which is international borders being changed by military force. and yet that's exactly what russia did. it did it in ukraine. it didn't crimea rather did it. don bass, and it's doing it again now. i mean the, to many cases, grenada, of, i mean the so many cases of all global invasion, i'm going to write it down by the association of caribbean states because of a cuba and russian supported coo and grenade. which of course is what it, what the other, i mean, there's so many parallels here, and these are the ones being argued across the global. so what about this phrase of peacekeepers? can you understand? i mean, obviously the un secretary general says, this is a violation of international law,

something that has been raised with previous russian actions. can you see how moscow would see it is? wait a minute, we sent peacekeepers to broke apiece in the gonna carry back regina mean you're in as a by john, we ended the war in syria. we sort a cease fire in georgia and sorted all that out and quite, and down the georgia war wherever we go. all we do is bring peace that it looks pretty ugly, white, and happens though, that it, that involves fragmenting georgia and splitting off 2 provinces to pretend they were independent countries. it means of russian true presence in georgia, and as well as in azerbaijan and our media that freeze the conflicts. they're just like their russian troops still and mold over in the so called trans yester republic, which i'd love to see some day must be a bad and feet wide and it's widest. but it's a, it's this comical way of keeping russian troops and in moldova, and throughout central asia. i mean, i think, be the objectives here are pretty self evident,

and we're seeing the most violent expression of it in ukraine today. but i think couldn't policy to recreate brushing the gemini at a minimum, and the space is a former soviet union, and maybe russian sovereignty is, is completely open. so what do you think the only reason that haven't been demonstrations in trends, ministry, or in the crimea of being the power of the russian proxy authorities? or do you actually think that those people in crimea and trends mysteria and other places of kazi, they, they want to not be connected to moscow? i think they can see the demonstrations or anything, but certainly, well, maybe they don't want to get shot. that's always one ability, the substance of russian power and crime is undeniable. and the, and i think that's, that's part of the strategy that potent has very sex successfully pursued i, i think one of his dilemmas today is this. the vaunted russian military is

being humiliated around one side of the line. we're only getting back to that story because obviously russian media outlets have been banned and they took on i think we can, i think we can see from above what's going on, how soon you expect china now to move on, tie one as you so long predicted i've got a statement here from china's foreign ministry spokesman watch, and young taiwan is indeed not ukraine. taiwan has always been an inseparable about a historical illegal fact. well, i seems to me as a pretty clear statement, they're getting ready, and i think they're watching the u. s and nato's response in ukraine very carefully . and if it continues to prove as ineffective, tragically as it has been so far, i think china will draw the appropriate conclusions. or do you think the u. s. compare china away from russia? you also notice that some of the countries receiving lots of infrastructure

investment from china and as whaler cuba. they abstained on the un general assembly . i know the un general assembly thing was, was quite theatrical. the u. s. has never respected un general assembly resolutions in the bus. but what did you make of some peculiar abstentions from people, countries you'd think would vote with moscow? well, i think that then what it shows is that in this, on time between russia and china that russia is very much the junior partner, this is the exact reverse of cold war days. and it's something i think russia's leadership hasn't considered adequately. i've tried to explain that growing closer to china, growing further away from europe in the united states inevitably means subjugation for russia at some level. at some point. it's certainly not too late to reverse course now, but unless you want to be a part of greater china by the end of the century, i think russian needs to take another look at this. why couldn't they bring the

united states closer to china, which actually help the american people? because i think china has made it pretty clear they have hedge a monic ambitions in the endo pacific. it's why they have managed to give life to the asian clive india, japan, australia and the united states to why the countries are the endo pacific, very much want to see more evidence of, of, of a, a strong american presence in the, in the region. it's why the australians have asked for nuclear powered submarines and we've now created a mechanism along with the united kingdom to do this. i think the people in asia and the endo pacific generally are waking up to china's aspirations and they're going to take steps to pereta from happen. but what about the american people? why, why is this a consistent theme that it must be about the into pacific? you know, 40000000 cut heat to night in your country without food stamps. why can't an alliance between washington and may ging be created out of the mis that is

happening right now in the you because we're a free people and like being that way. but surely would benefit the people of the united states if business ties economic ties can be made with a jing, we've got to may business and economic ties with beijing. now i look, this is, this is something that they have gotten rich in china over the decades by stealing our intellectual property. people are beginning to wake up to that i, i think it's, this is something that's been growing over time and i think we're going to see growing resistance to china's aspirations. not just in the united states, really, but around the world. but, but it's why the strategic significance of ukraine is so high. because if the west can't defend a country in the heart of europe or allies around the world are going to wonder what are staying power is a lot at stake for us here to capitalism in the free flow of trade,

let alone media but free trade capitalism that take 2nd place to these geostrategic concerns the, the big businesses i at it does in china. there is not free trade capitalism in china. it's a classic example of the command and control economy, american capitalism and businesses in the united states wanting to trade with chinese businesses for the mutual prosperity and, and i think more and more of them are realizing that dependence on supply chains that have a heavy chinese component and number very dangerous unreliable, and they're looking for other places in southeast asia, in the western hemisphere, re shoring it, as it's called to the united states itself. all of this is happening and i think it increasingly rapid pace will kill his in historically a poor record. but you are implicitly a kind of complementing of donald trump there because presumably you understand that he understood that better than most what do you think? did you think anything?

would it be indifferent if trump had been empowered? he a very convene to summit in geneva with boots and to sort things out. i think the russians would have gotten controlled cab about a year ago for i because i think tra barely knew where ukraine was on a map, frankly. and he and his biggest concern with ukraine was finding that missing computer server for hillary clinton and determining what 100 biden's finances and ukraine were. and i think it had a negative effect on us ukrainian relations that had formed a part of the difficulty ukraine had. and trying to establish a relationship with the united states for over a year and a half. well, those under biden claims are still making a lot of headway in the u. s. meteors, you know, as a why, that's why i can't wait to find out what the truth is on 100 biden's riches. i just can't wait. well, clearly that the ordinary americans, i even know may be about to ukraine. iran, of course, is supporting moscow or one of the global energy superpowers. you expect them now

to get nuclear weapons. well, i expect to bind administration, which has been making one concession after another to iran, to do anything necessary to get back into the 2015 nuclear deal. the best i can see from an observer's position is they're going to try and get back in a perhaps the next couple weeks. i think that would be a mistake. i think the 2015 deal is flawed from the beginning. hasn't gotten any better with that. with age but the by the administration determined to get in, i think now because they want to get more oil pumped into international markets to lower gasoline prices for fear. what's gonna happen to them in the 2022 congressional elections and on the sanctions. finally, do you expect them to finish quickly or do you think that actually the grain conflict spells the end of the dollar as an international currency because of the

swiftness and i use that word. swift. obviously, a ugly emphatically is at the end of the dollar based system as huge numbers of countries now sanctioned by the united states get closer and closer together to different ways of transferring money. obviously they're being crypto currency exchanges. now one wall street and other methods which are not regulated by the federal reserve, i think actually the dollar is, is, is proving how important it is, how it, how important it continues to be. and i don't see any huge demand to trade in chinese won or russian roubles as far as crypto currency goes. look, if you want to buy like tulip bulbs be my guest, and putin do you think or do you think he will have to go food? nato nation countries in european union leaders to accept any reproach mall as this crisis, like all other crises, solely fates. i think too, it expects western resolve, particularly european resolves,

fail sooner rather than later. and to restore something approaching normality in economic relations and ultimately not pay nearly the price that people today in the west are speaking. are that that i think is his expectation. do you think blinkin and sullivan will accept any kind of reproachful? sure, they won't investable. thank you. thanks from thanks for adam. and that's it for the show will be back on monday. the deadline for 12 russian diplomats to leave the u. n. a new york, after they were expelled by the united states, which accused them of spying. until then keep in touch my role as social media. if it's available in your country and use a vpn or r t dot com, if you are a media restricted europe and that us know what you think of censorship in nato nations. ah

ah ah, there is a storm for a show or need to get involved in this conflict in the more active great. something more than just to supply, reference to your claim and sharing intelligence information or with the plan you afford to. so for instance, or the discussion about the no fly rule over you create and you need to try to have such an offload. so it will constitute or danger will for direct nature ship conflict. and these constant, unfortunately,

usually escalate to the level ah agreed humanitarian corridors around the city of mario full breakdown. a small number of people managed to escape. that is the russian defense ministry says 5 when the far right, as all battalion prevented refugees from leaving. this is just you and the name of this town sounds exactly the same in russia, ukraine, a language it means had been in english, but it wasn't exactly a law came apart the visitor town, which spent 80 years in the firing line between ukrainian and don't box forces we speak to people on the ground, ukraine's president flanders. nate those decision not to introduce the no fly zone over the country as the russian.