ah, hello and welcome to cross stock were all things are considered on peter lavelle, russia special military operation and ukraine continues. this is widely agreed upon . beyond that media reporting on this conflict could not be more polarized and politicized. in the west, this conflict is black and white. good versus evil. no context is provided, which of course is done on purpose. ah, to discuss these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george, send me. well, in budapest, he's a podcast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow, we have to meet with bob and she is a political analyst and editor. it was me, internet media project or a gentleman crossed up rules in effect. that means you can jump in any time you want, and i always appreciate it. well, let's start with george. george. obviously all of us are watching events unfold in

ukraine very carefully. i'm watching western media, i'm looking at russian media, and i couldn't, you couldn't get to get a more different stories that are being reported, particularly in western media. and there is no context where this conflict came from. wow. the way this conflict is being played out and how could possibly end because western media asthma turned it into an emotional event. not an analytical event. go ahead george. yes, that's right. there is no context and we get nothing. it's all about the events that has preceded this russian special operation. so, you know, the media wasted 5 will 6 years out. this phony baloney, trump, russia, so, but missed the big story, which was the biden,

ukraine's going to action because i haven't really played a very important role in everything that has happened here. because it was the whole bama by the ministration that engineer the qu in february 2014 and many of the people who are involved in that, including victoria newland. and we have her telephone. so you know? yes is out. yes. sorry. yes. is the guy click, she's out, and all these people are back in the meantime. you know, by that have been very much involved with the both my don government and the moment the by the ministration came in, they, me, they began pushing for ukraine's membership in nato. and it has become very, very intense. around about the last october when defense secretary lloyd often went to ukrainian to georgia and declared that the wrote to nato

membership is open open. this was so strong that even the media picks up homeless and it was the media now pretending. oh no, no, no, no, no, there be no plans at all. no plans at all books bringing in the ukraine into made so they lie about then it's just likely they all know there were no promises made to go. but you know, that was your grade wasn't going to be brought into later, but he's clear that's worth such plans. and that by rushing the through and no one was going to resist, the russians were getting extremely concerned. and i think that explains why their tone changed in responses. in november. we'll start talking about red lines. and then a december, when russia presented these 2 very harsh documents to nato and the united states. so none of that is brought in. and they said, we just hear about this horrible, big, ugly bear,

and this plucky little country trying to resist aggression. you know, gimme george, george, is that a wonderful job of introducing this topic here? because if you watch western media that cable, particularly russia can suddenly out of the blow up or no particular reason invaded ukraine, that, that is the story line that you, again, i mean, this is really appalling. and what it does is that actually the, what's away from the most powerless in western society, they are, the ones are going to be punished with the higher food prices, higher energy. right. and it's all because of unprotected aggression gamer. well, 1st, if you worry about the general nature of this conference, you know, where i'm on the 1st day or the day that i felt very bad and i was really no one in russia is rejoicing about what's going on. there is no good spirit. you're right now everyone is very serious. very. some people are going to need to

listen. you know, we get sunday school lessons from the west like war is not the math. yes. hi, science war is not, and it's a method on the 19th century. but where you are faced with the 17th century miss with 17th century war becomes and unfortunately, we all know that. so just if you will fax, the recent fax you know, would show who were needed and level the brain. yeah. get a gauge negotiation. 11 1st and 8, if you want the 1st and they did 2 days ago by the grand jury, presumably because they suspected him a price or what kinds of negotiations. when a member of the delegation get deal, you know, you go security as soon as possible government jim,

when he was in power in both sanctions or the kermit did use the same on the most school state university. and he's like nice west someone culture. so i'm quite the opposite. do gotten, i mean it's very easy to appeal to people's emotions. yes, more is more than that. it's very easy to do. one tosh. you show that if you're geez, you show the show put in space and, and go to all these math is to blame for everything. just so easy. you know, it's just such an easy or to go, go look what happened for 8 years. russia has been in the west. don't expand nato. dangerous. don't support these review when you grant what they're doing. you know, they are all their own people. they're essentially members. and they all know hermitage from the west. you know, they heard democratic elections. you know, they,

they changed, or shank, or was human and i'm just going to call professor joiner. we encourage the radiance to play hardball with russians. we told you bring us a line that they could become a part of the west, and we told your green you that showed that kind of resist fujen on every, every week. the result is that russia place with these existing show date because, you know, when i was in your brain, this isn't essential threat for russia. would you just thought cool, preventive, you know, nice thinking people in the west all these left mean and need to find out the route . so russia ran was that post war. then most people probably the best people on the

but would be deter america from the boy weapons. and, you know, who did your americans from doing that? only the russian army. unfortunately, this was the last residence, and you said george, washington post remarkably published, declassified or documents about massive. i mean, truly massive arm shipments ukraine at the end of last year. and we do, and i spoke before this got the attention of the russians. i immediately and we, and then we get these very high, intense negotiations which the west showed nothing per other. the russians hard work. and then we have, we get to where we are now. i mean there is, it is a sense of causality. here. you'd be a, you're a very hostile neighbor and taking vass, i mean,

hundreds of millions of dollars of hardware, military hardware, and that's just for peaceful purposes. go ahead, george. if you can, that, that time. so in effect, ukraine was becoming a de facto member of bass or, and if i told him kind of admitted that in his press conference the other day, i mean when he was boasting about, well, you know, how much weaponry we have provided and all the training would be doing, and this has been going on since 2014. so no one has sold them both think, but this is how you know, the people are going to praise. they do all this, but it's only confirm what russia has been saying, which is you are turning this country into essentially an aircraft carrier directed against and quickly. what if, if your brain were rushed through into actually your membership of nate? so then russia, when it will have very little options, well, you know what,

what are they going to do now? because now you know they, they would, if they try to go in and disarm and not the bikes, ukraine, they would be up against nato, and they really wouldn't be risky. well, what window was becoming very, very narrow. the judges you make, it was the defensive alliance. oh, it is just, oh the, you know, everything it does is just holding on to what he's got. an export massive amounts of arms, the countries that are not in the alliance, that is the beds. that's right. and indeed, oldenburg said that, well, you know, we are now very actively involved with georgia and for some reason both the, the governor, again, these are not members of nato. why, you know, actively involved with them. and again, you know, we are a defensive alliance. how are you defensive? so the problem is that russia, this was a, be really getting very,

very dire into situation. and i think that's why, you know, they have to move quickly before the, by the ministration would have pushed through major membership. because who would have resisted? i mean, back in 2008, michael resisted the grammar, but even though it was still put in, in that book or as declaration who's going to resist out, or actually you get a complete 0. you know, wrong was there's one thing one day when we go the next thing on the 3rd day. so i mean, the americans would have had the bookstore and i'm sure that they were getting ready to before. that was unfinished business for the biking people. daemon, i just want for the record, can you explain to our audience? is russia under martial law? because some media outlets are making the claim. what is the i live here? you live here? how would you describe the situation at least here in moscow? go ahead. when there are no limitations on public life,

i mean basically it ran all there and they could be it right now. so it, it's amazing how the new generation that and on the site. so let's kind of interesting even happen all over the western world. but maybe that's just a coincidence. ok. maybe maybe that's been going on in general. people are concerned. i mean, you see people listening to you all the time. you see them and they are all good. you know, for us, it's a greg because, you know, there are millions of people who built you crate. these people even rush. i mean, look at that. it wouldn't be just, these are the same apartment buildings that you find in moscow. finally stole that aren't you know, c, b, it was farm country and very

a very common genus because all the people at the same education, they all watch the same kind of it. so there are still lots of things connected us . and i've just been here gentlemen, we have to go to a short break. and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion and some really stay with our team. ah ah oh when i was a wrong one,

all just a sheep out disdain becomes the african and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look for common ground. ah, welcome across the dock were all things are considered. i veto labelle. this is the home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real news. ah, i will go back to dina. d. made if you could, this very shortly will describe how russians perceive ukraine and ukrainians. go ahead. well our g o recently or didn't was basically the

same on all the people and he was very was it just basically william banking difference in the rationing by green. yes. el mirage versus we're all gold rush in the soviet union. the different narrow the were more because. ready there was a general education and people basically watched the same re channel and it isn't bob, what has been happening in the last 80 years after my man by russians. the reason why there are you approach us now, then in 2014, when, when basically my don't have them with 40 policemen killed and the army is the more they don't claim you went to russia. there were some products in russia at the time. and they were more numerous. why?

because people at the time had not yet seen the cruelty or the, you know, i mean dos. now we have 8 years, you know, from a gun that we have several 1000000 refugees from your brain. you're just don't see them in the streets because they're the same as you could see from the visible. you know, they have a different eastern, isn't a very interesting that russia is deemed the aggressor, but a 1000000 to a 1000004 people moved from the john bass to rush. i don't think that's ever happened in georgia. they change gears a little bit here. what happened to western values? what happened to freedom of speech? i mean, if you, if you question the mentor, that the state department and, and they have described for the intel intelligence community, you're a traitor. how do we get here? i know that started under trump, but this is bleeding into just everything. now. you drink vodka,

you're an agent of who would have thought go ahead. yeah. i mean, in some ways, i think the, the arbitrary government measures during the co theory of the past 2 years kind of paved the way for this, but versus the act they've been on the day can against russian media. they just like that, no legislation boss just simply, you know, a government decrease. russians are getting the property seat. right. you don't have to like russian 1000000000 as the think that what the hell does this about? what does they done? did they use you declare one day? oh, this person is part of boot in, in a circle. what does that mean? i mean, even if true, what does he does? why and why does he get his property taken away? and this is just going across the boat. everybody is clapping and then there is this extraordinary facility on an individual level to ward russians. and

are you going to get a russian not being served in the in restaurants? russian stores are attacks. you remember the time when after 911, all these solemn politicians games? i know there's just nothing to do with most lives. this is just simply the, the terrorist watson give vent to islamic phobia. where are these voices today in the west? what is there, any politician who say, we don't want to take this out on the individual russians? this is, you know, this is the regime o, y, and happy they're going along with this. i mean this, you know, we have valerie get to give you, you know, he gets fired from his position. was a very distinguished musician because, you know, he, you know, he didn't condemn the government. well, i mean, if he had done that, wouldn't put his life in jeopardy of role if you, what you say is true and then is this monster wouldn't actually, you know,

in some ways to get life in jeopardy, but now he's gone. so this is completely arbitrary and really, governments are just engaging in the worst lowest the demo. other a i thing assuring russians that, hey, you know, the west really have, this is a long standing hatred. you know, it was supposedly, it was all about communism. something much deeper going on here. schema idea. can it be? i suppose it's politically incorrect to say russian lives matter to well, you're right. and the russian brought us to even more money. correct right now because it's just amazing. it reminds me that everyone in the same sky get our hands on their property and they on the dealers. well, i remember i read george cannon's memoir, you know,

the famous and i walked in moscow as best during the time of the war. and afterwards, he saw how the communist introduced the reforms in europe. and he wrote that when it is confiscated, the lamb from the land was these by the some some b, r, e in the farmers. but what, but can you belong to the boss? but you in take a nice, they need all the coffee for many year, so ok, they can take a remote, they can take the los or whether it is you know, by the way, some of the, the invariable west sanction in friedman and ivan, this stupid this thing you would expect from the nice people are very welcome. they

actually are some of them who are mary and russian and the way to read continue. you can check the news for that one. but what happens is, in this way the wes consolidate russian because everyone, you know, 300 dual in depth and it makes them, it makes the debit just for rush because now rush one percent. sure. i'll put them in for us. they know if there is what they did on the good, i mean, george. so if confiscation is the name of the game right now. so western assets in russia, it's fair game, right? i mean, the property, yes, i think so, and i think there's increasing talk about that. russia should retaliate or be they've lost a lot of money. lost a lot of property should retire early by nationalizing all with the assets in

russia. and that of course, means they take all the intellectual property, and that means that they can now manufacture all these goods and just sell them around the world. and no doubt on the western companies will then try to sue you stolen our intellectual problem. but good luck with that. i mean, people have been trying to do that against china of the year without any great percent. but it is indeed a fair game. after all, you know, russia has lost an enormous amount that raises other issues to these companies who now lose their assets, will go to their respective government the way going to help us out. i mean we're, we're in a lot of trouble with lots of money. 1 you know, we can't stay in business and then the government presumably have to bail them out . i mean, they got them into this trouble. you'll be up to them to get them out. so saying, i mean, where is the money going to come from?

saying with all the refugees, oh, come on. oh well you know where, you know, who are welcoming, how many of you, who's going to pay for all of this? i mean, i mean, we don't many millions of refugees from your grace who even knows who the hell these people are and i do, german is going to have to pay for all of this. so i know that united states is quite happy with creating a problem for other countries, but a lot of people are going to be a heavy price in the west. well, in georgia, i can tell you that the ukrainians and russians are crossing the eric and southern border as we speak. okay. they got, they got the word, the ball on the borders opened dimmer again, kind of give us a notion of how russians feel about the see. because in, i started in my introduction is that there is this reporting on this conflict is without context. ukraine is complete context for russian. so being the inter

marrying people have i have a member of my team prospect team. she has family in mary ocho, which is under siege by the ukranian army. i mean, it's very, very personal, and that is something western media never explains ukraine in the, in the conscience of russians is a domestic issue. it's not a horn issue. go ahead. i'm sorry, you're right, but just to, are there classroom a lesions? mario bo was taken by i had a referendum on federal way to degree in spring. it all of that for, you know, staying in the people's republic, you know, the part of the region, the brilliant groups roll into the part of them. and the rest of people are in the and now the russian army and the people are trying to push the ukrainian troops and the sole person on the battalion reports of the views. but they're all

going to need my money orders. but, you know, you asked me to call you about it. it seems to me, the west is underestimate. i mean, the idea that you get a day, the property costs and they won't get upset and out. this is on the list. you may think people, you know, very dear, that you can feed rations more. so what i believe is a war and i want to go. ready and this is also underestimate the man she didn't think about the consequences before starting there is also stupid, you know, was, it was part of his calculation that there will be a backlash in the west or course in you will that support the rushing, the, what are going to be unfortunate that had to be good bob,

what was on that side? if huge country, you know, 40000000 people hostile to russia with huge data where you can high table, edible weapons, defacto member only because they're already crane and most people basis on the west and both that. so would you name the cultural us on these more? let me jump in here, jim and george last 30 seconds to you. the liberal west is supporting some of the most vicious, neo nazi battalions in ukraine never reported. go ahead. no, never, it was. of course, this double piece with the liberal west supporting neo nazis in croatia in the 1990 s. he was kind of islam, a terrorist and chechnya border and indeed the finance and transport the jihad into balls the again, in just in the 990 is. this is

a long standing tradition, and all of this is not recall just instead we get this the sanitized picture of this glorious you rowing the media. i mean, are all the time we have a little one thing, my guess i'm going to pass on here in moscow and then take our viewers for watching us here. are you see next time? remember the me, i ah, both of them was a recall with world is with you is with you. i'm

with full credit, gets approved from beach still easy for this patient, but i to in the board with

for is your media reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? i selection whole community. i you going the right way? where are you being led? somewhere? direct. what is true? what is faith? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. ah and north atlantic alliance recognizance that grafton wolf ships cruising close to russia's borders have become commonplace. along with military hardware redeployment and large scale exercises. nato has also developed its offensive capability near the russian borders every year, a russian backed resolution is submitted to the un against the glorification of nonsense of.