ah, cross stock in the situation in ukraine. i'm joined by my guess, michael maloof in washington. he's a former pentagon senior security policy analyst in new york. we have caleb mauppin . he is a journalist and political analyst, and in london we cross through adrenal can santa, he is founder of a k consulting and a foreign affairs analyst or a gentleman crosstalk roles and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate michael, let me go to you 1st in washington here. i'm, as i said in my introduction here, i'm watching politicians. i'm watching a hysterical media here. they want to escalate. i the people that know nothing about on a no fly zone or are promoting it. this is absolutely insanity. and so instead of d escalating, trying to find solutions here, is there, escalating it to where nato essentially going to be dragged into this? and unfortunately, there are

a lot of people that seem to agree with that. go ahead, michael. yeah, it's unfortunate because in spite of the, the crisis and the in the humanitarian devastation that has occurred a, it seems as though the west, particularly may, the biden administration. and most especially the neoconservatives with them at like victoria new and are, are pushing this to a brink. and we, and i don't know why, except that they're trying to contain rush, i think they're trying to overthrow the government in, in the russia. i think that's our ultimate goal. they want the people in russia. i think that russia is the ultimate target. ukraine has always been just the, the, the, the, the debate if you will. and, and this, and you saw this in the, in the lead up to the opening of hostilities when stolen burg, of the others were just so adamant about nato expansion. notwithstanding the that

is in violation of, of almost 30 years of agreements that were signed up between the west on the east. and yet these agreements like all agreements i guess are made to be broken and that's precisely what has occurred. and, and i think that the ukraine is just being used for, for, for their purposes. they don't want an attack on, on the west. but they, they want to do what they can to cast russia in the, in the worst possible light. and, and to ultimately result in a, in a, in a disruption within russia itself. you know, caleb, let's go to you in, in new york. i mean if we look back of this, essentially this iteration of this crisis goes back to 2014 with the illegal overthrow of the government there with the backing of the united states and victoria newland is back up. i don't, he, caleb, it's, it's really quite remarkable, but no one in the foreign policy. bob or the media has realized the more quote

unquote nato, the nato countries help ukraine, the smaller it gets in more unstable and actually a lot poor. nobody likes to point that out. go ahead, caleb. sure. i mean, if you listen to american media, you would have no idea that this has been going on for 8 year. why american media is talking about this. it just started, i heard a cnn re order say that your brain was a useful country, jump on it, just lack of what i mean. the fact that there have been so many data, at least in 1000, gone at some of the fact that nato expansion has been in place, that there has been idling weapons into engine to. yeah. then, and frightening russia. blockade other mean i had made this analogy many times, but we have many spanish speaking people in the united states. if you imagine, if there was a judge in some state or it were at work, avener was lighting and tickets and getting them to court with their own language. this would be rightly out and out the number. the ask it has taken place and don

bass shall lang, using turkish rounds to attack civilians. i, you know, russia has shown quite a bit of restraint now. they waited years and you know, they, they, they wanted diets in regards to reintegrate back injury brightly. one of them is the courts to be recognized and we carry through. so the way american eat is representing this is just really outrageous. what areas it seems like, it's not only the 9 russia, but they want to escalate it. they don't want this with the n downtown. exactly. it really, it may go to you in london at this munich security conferences here of all people come out, harris was there. and she was telling the media that there hasn't been a war in europe for 70 years. but there was a nato war against the former yugoslavia that was one. and as caleb has pointed out for 8 years, the don bass was assaulted in every way possible here. where is the context and all

of this is what really frustrates me. i can understand people that are very frustrated with the situation, even against russians, military operation, i can get that, but i don't get people that want, don't want to put it into context. you put it into context for us. go ahead. i think that this is what you just said. it's just but trays the but faithful. the united states in this whole conflict between russia and ukraine, i mean, getting out the context out of the equation. it makes much simple for this whole style actors and mainstream media to lie about this a conflict. i mean, we know that the t has been banned in europe, and it also suggests the fact that the distant voices or voices were trying to put def, i mean this conflict in the framework which started in 2014, i my so bye you for your been in your credit in 2004,

a research paper for the house of lords and for the bo group here, suggested that if the united states in particular and the west also called collective west were low sit on the table negotiation table about the ukraine and it's ukraine being neutral. so lot be joining the nato. it will cause a very huge frictions. and this is the outcome as the previous comment. ace is what he said. this was meant from the very beginning to escalate with russia . and now, i mean with the lead up to the escalation, few months later, months later, we could see that several european leaders like mister schultz and micron, was traveling as a messenger of the washington d. c. or president by them to put in more more accurately, to

a somehow do the diplomatic moves and somehow break at the diplomatic deal. they showed the importance, the european union is impotent. it's reluctant to stand on their own feet when it's come to when it's coming to the european security framework. and these are the consequences of the european impotence when it comes to the fact we literally before our own eyes. we can see that the central europe is, is being turned into the middle east. many commentators and washington hopes are saying that they want to make ukraine. another gun is full president bush, but i'm not sure whether they will succeed. it will just come countries which are neighboring with, you know, with you for a light pole in between, you know, perhaps hungry, which on the last lifeline i would say the american had in this part of the world.

but the ending was a seems to be very bloody and a very gloomy. you know, my, i agree. i mean, michael a, i don't think the europeans understand what they're supporting here. i mean, mass migration. you don't know who these people are. the the prisons in ukraine had been opened up. the convicts had been armed i, it's all as complete chaos. i mean, i'm time i've titled this for a program failing state, and this is what the west is doing is promoting the failure of the ukrainian state . go ahead, mike. well, yeah, i think, well, you can see it. it's been evolving ever since biden administration came in and wanted to reassert leadership and natal, they've had to, ah, over, over, extend themselves and push. they actually push the nato countries into this the other as, as your previous guess, just pointed out a germany, france and the others who live right next door were much more cautious about having any kind of confrontation with us, with russia and, and,

and as far as ukraine is concerned, ukraine has, has a actually violated its own basis for sovereignty, a from 1990 in which they pledged even then a big non align. and, and it was only in 2017 that they modified their constitution. join nato, again, pressure from the, from the united states and, and in the same with georgia. and they're going to be get it and, and they knew go full. well, they were very wide eyed about this. that it was gonna create a problem and it was a red line for moscow because of the it insecurity, the lack of indivisibility that has been talked about since the founding of o, s. c, e. and, and in, in which they talked about not, not increase in the security of the west at the expense of the east. and that is

exactly what happens after 1997. when we are, nato expanded into it, into the east, or through the central and eastern europe. and this, this is all the, at the behest of the united states, not the countries neighboring ukraine and russia. and this is the, the, me give them a gun and kayla before we go to the breaker. cale and the drill sample here. ah, the u. s. political leads and nato. they want russia as an enemy. it's a handy enemy to have. that's what they want to say. they've actually gotten what they designed. go ahead. sure, i mean, if you look at this in light of the u. s. in advance with the economy crumbling and lation biden is very much following jimmy carter and the script. and we talk about afghanistan. yes, they force their forcing a situation where russia asked to basically intervene and russia asked to have a red line in your brain and intervene. and now they are whipping up is syria

against russia. russia, blame russia. the economic problem started long before long before this escalation, recently seen, and they can, they can play up the idea that russia is the aggressor. and that seems to be the idea here. states. i also, caleb, it solves a lot of biden's domestic problems, doesn't it? sure, i mean, biding by them can point to russia as the state or his failing administration and can try to, you know, you know, with public plus you have the memories of russia, gate and linking his domestic with. caleb, i have to jump in here. gentlemen, we're going to go to a hard break, and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on the situation in ukraine. stay with ah,

look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such orders that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to great trust rather than fit a job with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot protective own exist. this is only oh, when i went to the wrong one, i just don't know. i have to say about the same becomes the advocate and engagement. it was the trail. when so

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ah, welcome back to cross hawk where all things are considered on peter level to, to remind you we're discussing the situation in ukraine. ah. okay, let's go back to our guest in london, you know, and watching cable news in the u. s. and it's all emotion. it's all hysterics. but very few people are looking at the strategic shifts that are going on. how the world really did change. on the 24th of february, and it will, i would submit to you and the effort to isolate russia will have a, a boomerang effect. i think europe is going to find itself very much isolated and with very few policy options because it's now total absolute complete total dependence on the united states and the united states will use europe for its own purposes, not for europe's own interests. i submit that to you. go ahead a,

whoa again. i agree of your pizza. i mean, it's is astonishing. is astonishing to, to see on such great western countries like france and germany allowing to, to this happened to europe. i mean, we know that asia is a mean economy, economy power has shifted to asia and it did what this conflict is telling to the asian economies. and the great powers in asia, like china and india, is that they don't, i mean they, they can't trust the west really, and they will do whatever it takes to prevent this mess or curing in their hemisphere. i would say also that the narrow mindedness of, you know, putting this in very, very narrow context. strictly western or european context is simply are not right. because we can see that china is unwilling. i mean, i would say global se unwilling to sanction or vote again,

russia because of the world or international community, as they say in the western media, all in the western price, it's much louder than, than the united states. and it also states in europe. but people don't get it, they don't understand, they can't see beyond west and u. s. dollar dominance. i mean, this is the, the fun to fund a mental problem with germany off the, a bretton woods, a financial institutions including i, m, f, and world bank. people can't see beyond it. and the unit poll moment has, i mean the beginning of the end of the unit a moment started, i would say with the u. s. withdrawal from, from a gun it's done. and now the ukranian problem, all ukrainian, and the situation is and now the nail in the coffin of the u. s. i gemini, so you, as a germany is willing to drive, i mean, a drug down anti western hemisphere. i mean, to, you know, to, to,

to be defeated or being a partner in debt can relate to a defeat rather than allowing europe to look towards a, towards the story and for stage longevity, i mean, the west is dined, let us be honest. the people are the countries like india, countries like at parties, are not willing to listen to the countries. i mean that to take dictatorships in the united states, even middle eastern countries, like saudi arabia, all and iraq. these are the most recently, they will not be good to get a phone call from a president biden, but they get a phone call from the president put in. so please shoot a, tell a lot about the ships on the global chess board, all geopolitical chessboard, but people in western europe in europe, in general, having a very difficult time in understanding the world changing and then

the world is slow boat united states. and i think it's going to leave them behind michael, that basically the same question to you because you know what we're having now, we'll talk about the swift system in all of this. well, the chinese already have one. now the russians have their own version. they're probably going to connect them up here. there's going to be a lot of to economic distortions. but at the end of the day it's, it's building a world beyond the west. and in this, it had gemini, is not going to be worth much. go ahead, michael. no, no, you're actually right. this is the actually the actual launch of the multi polar world. i agree. i agree that we've, we've been talking about actually for more than 2 years, even on this program. and i, i've gotta tell you that mr. mr. potent probably thought that after 6 a series of warnings over time and read and i'll talk about red lines that he made a decision to, to go eastward. and this is what's happened. he's basically cut off the west. he is,

he's, he's done with the west and that was, that is now very, very clear. and he's now looking eastward, and i think that the f a and in post afghanistan and the fact that the even the, by the administration and trying to resurrect a dying nato and the e u cracking up. you're going to c e u countries. now, beginning to flake off and start at a more to eastward, because that's where the market is going to be. it's not a going to be in the u. s. and they're going to be looking at michael. i would, i would add to that and this is my own particular thing here. i think it's dig, do use blankets, word over used and abused word values because there's a lot of conservative people in eastern europe and there they don't like this woke, is them from brussels and all of that. i think all of this adds together here. caleb, let me go to you. i mean a, this is the great separation right now and you know what? personally, i'm not against it. okay. i actually been talking about it, particularly with michael on this program for years. that this is

a separation that's go to have to happen. it started go ahead in new york, or will wall street in london. very much want to keep the world or so that they can stay rich. it's about dominating the mark. they can't stand the fact that russia and as big oil and gas react or in competition with the wall street in london. well, and energy companies, they can't stand the fact that china or phones while they technology, apple and american producers do. they don't want the competition, they want the world, the state for, and they look at your asian economic union and the belt and road initiative. and the fact countries are rising up out of operating in alliance with russia and china . and they can't stand. and that's really what is underlying all of this at the end of the day. it's about holding back. economic is our, there is a feeling in particular among now what you call the anglo american establishment, particular faction of old wanting it was in the united states. you talk about the rocket dollars, you can talk about, you know, wall street and we are in with silicon valley. they think the world needs to stay

for. they don't want competition. they think there are too many people in the world . they're going to drive living standards down, and this applies to the united states also. i mean, look across america right now. the roads are crumbling. you know, our educational system is in shambles. the population is suffering, life expectancy is dropping. there was a time where they needed this prosperous american middle class, the american green, the american been canceled, or dr. lower that of the american working class to lower conditions and driving down living standards and a lot of people around the world. and a lot of people here in the united states don't want to stand for, you know, they look at what's going on in russia. i feel good and you know, whereas there's a lot of capitalism coming out of us. yeah, let me go to a drill in london just to echo with caleb said, i absolutely agree with them here. that's why you have to attack descent. if you have a different opinion, we have

a different opinion about what's going on in ukraine or any other. your foreign policies, your domestic january sags okay. now it, this is all very, very convenient, but it's a very broad brush to, to silence people. ok. i mean, will r t america was shut down because it was a dissenter. okay. go ahead in london for this, this move. so just another example of, you know, the west being desperate because they very well know that most of people are not getting information only from the mainstream media because they know that they've been lying to them. i mean, for over, i mean, for many years. so that's why they're afraid of the fact that even the average people average joes are getting the news from via various of different sources. and they're not, you know, biting debate. they know what is happening and they are frustrated and angry with president boynton. i mean, even today was some outrageous headline in daily may here in the united kingdom

saying that perhaps putting it to be blame for covet 19. i mean, the search of a new u. k. i mean, how stupid one can be. i mean, i was so happy to read the commentaries under the article the, you know, pregnant people not buying this because they know that they are just desperate to like, i think that the most extreme one i've come across them was a few months ago. maybe last i with some kind of you case i to said aliens will not want to visit earth because russia is an aggressive country. making a new york times. i was in new york times. it was the opinion piece from i forgot the name of the out of ok. well i, i got a story, right? i got this area. i got michael way in there about civil liberties here. because, you know, it's very interesting is that we had russia gade and then we had cove it day that we have ukraine gate to point out. i mean constant tension,

always making people afraid. ok, this is what they want. and those that speak out, you know, because they, they, they, they doubt the status quo. they must be silenced. they have to be made invisible. go ahead, michael. oh, yeah. our 1st amendment a, which allows for free speech is being shut down. and it's not just by government any longer. i government can shut down r t if it wants to, because of some violation of some relic or a cold war regulation somewhere. however, companies big tech is now getting into the game of, of silence seemed descent of him and canceling. you completely ruining careers were seen this left and right. and there's no no way to defend against that except to go underground or create an alternative or an alternative world order if you will. but we're coming to that, we're coming to that point. and, and this country has to come so polarized, because of it. and at any descent is looked upon. i mean, when,

if you disagree with the policy, for example, if the, during the obama administration, you are a racist. well, no, we're not, we're not racist. and this is how they, they squelch descent and, and, and, and anybody who raises a question about anything and we're seeing that even more pronounced today. again, the racism cart is being played very predominantly here to the point it has diminished the entire meaning and intent of racism and to if it. so if you descent in any way you are a racist you are. yeah. you are you really mansel and it was any of the last crime . let me give the last word to caleb. you know, i'm, i'm, we're in a weird way. i'm still on twitter and i'll tell you why i get notifications. and then when i hit the, you know, the notification, i can't see it. okay, i'm not allowed to post. i can't go to the home page. it's some kind of cruelty. they just keep sending me the notification and then facebook i doesn't work okay for me. um, they've silence me, but at least i have this, i am

a hope the i hope to be able to keep it last word goes to you. caled. 15 seconds all to clarity is emerging and merging in terms of information as well. and silicon valley is not going to be able to dominate or make too much longer. we do the alternatives that are in facebook that are emerging in this crisis is escalating the need to that more they tighten their breath shot on is that the more people are going to turn elsewhere and they're going to lose their monopoly. ready on spreading information over social media. yeah, i use this. you can only blame russia for so many things. i suppose that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks. so my guess in washington, new york and in london. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at ortiz, see you next time. remember crosstalk with ah, ah, is you'll media

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ah ah mater brakes its own bulls to allow cord for violence against russian soldiers amid the ukraine conflict with the instagram owner insisting the move won't lead to innocent people being targeted. however, they, you turn has already talked concerns. if you and human rights office western countries get up, they fight against ordinary russian citizens. as the countries, musicians are now bought from international competitions. we get feedback from the russian public. you super small to little special scholars, would you be if we look at what's happening with our cultural bit here in our media, then 1 may ask, where is democracy or human rights here? it's a kind of rocephin beer and hysteria around the world. it's politics and politics shouldn't affect the lives of people with there's no such thing as fast tracking