in the world corrupted, you need to descend. ready ah, join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, ah, ah. hello and welcome to cross stock, were all things considered on people about western capital face? what is deemed a foreign policy dilemma? the go to position is something must be done, even if that something is counterproductive and dangerous. this is now happening when it comes to ukraine. something must be done, meals escalation. ah,

discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, garland nixon in washington. he's a political analyst and personal. we have to look jer all the. he's a former cia counter terrorism specialist who is now executive director of the council for the national interest. and in budapest we cross to george 70 while he is a podcast or at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals, or a gentleman cross that rules and the fact that means you can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate, okay, let's start with phillip here. obviously we're all watching the events very closely unfold. what is going on in ukraine. we saw the cranium president address are essentially would be a joint session of congress. he's talked to the canadian parliament, the u. k. parliament and that is a very powerful propaganda element that is being played out in this conflict because i watch a lot of cable tv. i don't really see much of a conflict. i hear

a whole lot of commentary. so, hello, it is, here is the western war with russia, i mean, minus the nukes at this point, but it doesn't, it's never really said straight forward. this is war. well, i would, i would agree, i mean, just based on the economic warfare that is being waged against russia right now to me that's war. arming the ukrainians in a very obvious and open way and calling for the assassination of a foreign and state. and other gimmicks that are coming out of her u. s. congress to me are all of defacto war. and it is, in fact i think of the russian side as being restrained here. for those was, were unfortunately living in the united states. we hear a constant stream of propaganda coming out of government and both to put in the also the talking edge on the media. and we're not hearing the other side of one of

the funny things about bo, this is that as a former intelligence officer myself, when you're trying to sell something like this, you sell a narrative. and the key to the narrative is where you start the narrative. so everything we see on television starts this whole thing 3 months ago and doesn't go back to, to 2014, when do united states engaged regime regime change in the ukraine and basically started this whole thing. and nobody's talking about that. yeah, it's called context and it's completely absent from the what we're being fed, george, i need your help. i need you to explain something to me. because if you look at the, the broad sheets in the u. k. table in the united states, it's all about escalation, escalation, escalation, what should be done? what must something must be done is they always say, ok, but if you read the russian media and you read the ukrainian media to 2 countries

that are at war right now, there's a lot of stress on how to end this conflict as soon as possible. and you know, there is difference, a 15 point proposal, 18 hours of discussion. so are some progress, but not much. we're going to meet again. that's what we're hearing here. and then to watch fox news. and it's just a lead up to the 3rd world war. so of course we don't want to do that, but everything they're doing and talking about is leading to that george, explain that to me. but it's very hard to explain because it does seem as if the strategy of the united states and the united kingdom is to escalate into excess of 8 am to keep the war going for as long as possible. now i guess the maybe a calculation that long, we keep this going, the worst is going to get for russia. and also that's what we're supposed to be about. we're trying to destroy russia. we're going to try to bring you to which the so if it goes on for the month of the month and it's going to be back to russia,

that must be good for us. but even in those narrow terms, it's actually going to be an absolute calamity. for europe and eventually the united states, it will goes on. i mean, if you know this, these are the sending, the getting to the wrong and, and we have this already, this massive my room flow. who even knows who exactly is now pouring out of your grade was told that 3000000 refugees. i've left you a great, that's an awful lot of people just a few days. nobody knows who these people are. they coming to europe with weapons, with gang land connections and so on. you know, europe is going to suffer, will already know something about the effect of low back. the other aspect of it is that if you escalate, oh, you get a very serious problems. i mean,

we have people coming on tables. oh, let them know, you know, javelin missiles that some of them service to amazon. let's send them to the man pads. you know, they don't know what to do with them. ok, you try to get them in russia. bombs, any convoy already sent you a bomb. any a convoy then what's, what's the next step? how far are you going to take it? you know, you're going to start shooting down rational planes that threaten the calm voice. they don't really think you just one step ahead. i just like the, the regular sound bites and the opportunities to get on table at the sound. ok. yeah. and it sounds like they want this conflict to go on until the last training is dead or left. the country because, you know, there is no context of it being presented to the public here. and one of the things, it's very painful for, i live in moscow obviously, and, you know, this war is awful. all wars are awful, but there was

a war going on in the eastern new part of ukraine is called the john bass for 8 years where people were being slaughtered. that was never a hardly ever made mentioned in the mainstream. of course specialists would talk about it a great length, but the average consumer of news that probably is barely aware of the word dom bass and probably even less aware that there was a conflict there. that up to 15000 people, overwhelmingly, civilians were killed. but that's not part of the narrative. go ahead, girl. yes, and here's the way i view this. you know, i've been reading that the, the usaa saying that the state department is saying, well, we can still do our pivot asia. so is it a war? yeah. ok, i put it like this, the u. s. empire sees this as one of the battles on a larger war to maintain world, to gemini, that they're there. so i don't really think want to get entangled in a kinetic war with russia. and as we know historically, these things happen to accidentally, they want to entangle russia up in this,

they want to severely damage russia, so they can turn to china. and meanwhile, of course, the other fronts like africa, to try to separate the, the countries in africa, africa, from russia and china economically. so it's part of a broader war. and the information were, in my opinion, is an information war against the citizens of the west, against the americans and the europeans. they have to convince the americans in the europeans that this is not that they have to hide from them what they're really doing and create an environment where the citizens of west c, a villain and hero, and the u. s. is the cowboy riding in to save the ukrainian people of the taiwanese people or whatever, etc. because if the american people, the european people knew the truth about the insidious plans of their leaders, they wouldn't accept it. you know, it fell again being a concern because it's part of my job. i have to watch what's going on in the news . and for the past, almost 3 weeks now, i've been watching officials, i've,

these officials that come on tv. they're very familiar to me. i remember them back in 2003. i remember them talking, it's going to be a cakewalk. you know, it'll pay for itself. of course i meant referencing iraq. so phillip me, why should any person that is a consumer of news and, and against these foreign wars, believe any of these, lieutenant colonels and generals and, you know, the people from tank that thanks, thing tank, land, you know, i mean, they're all the same faces and they all say the same thing over and over again, and they have a record of under complete failure. explained to us, but i really can't explain it i, i've been watching the same clowns also since 2003 and left the government for that reason. the fact is, these people have the peddling lives going back as far as lyndon johnson, if not before, and it's people who got used to it,

i'm afraid they don't want to believe it sometimes. but at the same time they, they're, they're kind of americans, they're living here, they feel that they have to support the government. it's that kind of funny mindset . in this case, i mean, it's a propaganda has been relentless, and it's also been very good. i noticed in the speech, unscathed made to the u. s. congress. it was a totally coached speech. and he was hitting every nail on the head that he probably had for the o'con adviser standing behind him, whispering in his ear. and it was a, you know, this is a very sophisticated effort by the people who want war for one reason or another. and most people get caught by it. and that she unfortunate reality. there is a, a big kind of counterculture, myself included. that is speaking how very strongly in the other direction, but we don't have access to the media. we don't have access to to any source that

basically gets us out to multi millions of people and explain that this is just not the way it is. yeah. liter, if i may make it, make a quick comment, been gregory, and that is this again. i don't think they really want kinetic war or, or, or no fly zone or whatever. but if they bring zalinski in and he asked for all of these over the top things, when joe biden doesn't do it, he appears to be showing restraint. and so now you have a situation where people say, well, you can't say that he's some kind of a neo con war mongering. mad men. why look at the restraints are they asked for a lot? and then when he still does terrible things, it appears to be less than they asked for. the answer, it's very, it's kind of very counterintuitive. but up my, my question to all 3 of you and to my read my viewers, mill, billions and billions and billions of dollars have been pumped in you since 2014, i don't know where it's gone. george, let me go to, you know, you know,

it's interesting, you know, when you look at like a responsible state craft and these can, you know, anti war dot com these places you know, they're, they're valuable. ok? so there is just a loud and they're talking about a ukraine ukranian you neutrality based on austria on finland. and i'm not joining military blocks. i'm sorry, george, i distinctly remember you being on this program. are we saying, you know, that would be a good idea because then it would avoid the conflict. i mean it, this is exasperating, george, go ahead. yes, it really is. and what we have had really since the bike ministration, because i think the by the ministration, you know, when the, when the history of this is written, the culpability of the bible and ministration will feature very prominently from the beginning. it has a push for membership of nato, for your grade, from the beginning. it told you great, don't bother with minutes. it's not

a good deal. you can get something much better. if you stick with us, we're going to get you into a nato a, you know, some kind of a military offensive, which will be bad for russia. will humiliate russia, you know, sick with us kid. ok. and it is a lead to this disaster. and unfortunately, one of these websites that you mention, they don't really, you know, appreciate the, the full extent which, you know, the russians have shown remarkable patients or anything that you can condemn them, go online, but this is, comes as a result of a very long sequence of events stopping in 2014, but even before that because you know that aren't we got to go to our break and after that hard break, we'll continue our discussion on some real issues state with ah ah,

a it isn't with you as a fellow the owner of those with your grade in measure let a good a bye

with ah, welcome at cross stuff. we're all things are considered. i'm here. well, this is the home addition to remind you were discussing some real issues. ah, it was go back to garland, you know, watching a lot of the pendant tree and i'm

a fox news consumer. don't deny that people go and george w bush's finally succeeded his legacy, then all is ok. because the republicans and the democrats are all in lock step bill . so your early like post $911.00, right before the run up to the invasion of iraq. it's the same people. it's the same rhetoric. it's the same. i'm tired of exceptionalism. somebody, something must be done and we're the only ones that can do it. and we had a cascade of failures out about. but that doesn't seem to matter. explain to me how that is, because these people don't have another option. this is who they are, and this is what they do. you know, if you look at victoria new and she was dick cheney's assistant, then she was in the obama administration under hillary clinton. then she wasn't in the trump administration, but he had john bolton, so he had just had a different iteration of victoria newland. and now she's back. you know,

some people initially called jo biden's administration. you know, this is going to be the 2nd obama administration. my opinion is no, it's the 4th, the bush administration. since the bush administration. i mean, the fact of the matter is, you know, i'm the trump fan, but the reality is i saw donald trump is trying to pump the brakes to some extent, as, as, and still as hawkish as he was in comparison to these people. he was trying to pump the brakes a little bit and that's why they try to take them out. so what we're looking at is a, basically in the us, we've got the hawks excuse me. we've got the super hawks and the altar hawks. we don't even have any, any hawks anymore in their game plan is we control everything in for this even when they need venezuela in iran, they don't even have the ability to turn the volume down and not to go ask for something that they desperately need. they have to go to people that they need something from, make the man they're going to go to venezuela and say,

we need your oil, but you're going to have to have a, you're going to have to have a new election. these people are, i mean it's just twisted. what i quite know is president, why they not going to matter. i mean, i don't get that. ok. anyway. i maybe mature. why joe has all the gold. maybe they should talk to him. ok. because they stole it from venezuela. philip, what is the future of nature? because, in my opinion, the event of, of february 24th the russians military operation. ukraine, really is the tombstone of nato. nato was supposed to keep the piece and it failed utterly. well, what's it for right now? go ahead. i mean, nato was created basically as the military align at the hospital military alliance directed against the soviet union and the were so back. and as far as i'm concerned with 1991, rolled around nato should have had this sense to abolish itself. that didn't happen

for a number of reasons, because there are all kinds of myths that float around about why the united states of felt it was necessary to continue to have nato a one of them. of course, it is the argument that the u. s. basically believes in global dominance, and essentially europe is the key to this. you are busy, we need a few more soldiers to go to afghanistan or to go to livia or to go to serbia. depot is there for this for this purpose? so there are there properties for the united states, the united states is in big trouble. oh, i think that a lot of the wars could be explained in terms of the economics. the fact that the u . s. dollar as reserve currency is under challenge. and if that goes, then the u. s, as a major player will also go because of the ability to, to spend the trillion dollars on what they called the fence. depends on being able

to go to the treasure indian, tell the print the money. so i think there's a, there are a lot of vulnerabilities that there some people washington are focusing on. but in a way, these are our false vulnerabilities that to you as has created itself. yeah, well and also, i mean, we could always throw in with nato expansion. was a really good grid for the arms industry. ok, because you got to buy american arms. ok. george. one of the most important issues that is, come about is result of russia's military operation. and ukraine is, is china. and they're, you know, to what degree china is in agreement, or just refusing to say anything against it. so there's a lot in plain right here and we have this declaration when, who didn't went to beijing for the opening of the olympic games. there was a pretty hefty talk to him in georgia. it wasn't done on the fly. ok. talking about a strategic relationship. and there's a lot of ships going on right now,

philip is right. i think the paid $2.00 and really big trouble when after a half century of saudi arabia being a loyal vassal, the saudis have decided to stand up on their own because they've got, they can do it. ok, why countries do that? what they do? because they can ok, and the chinese are very quietly watching all this on home. i agree with garland, you know, you know, maintaining and solidifying gemini, when that kind of hit gemini is a pirate victory. because if europe will just be crushed by all of this. ok, they're what they want. energy security by 2030 will. good luck guys. ok. it's the here and now i know that's right. i mean, i think if we can identify this point as the end of the post cold warrior, which means that is the end of the unit all along the end of the world led by united states. and going back to, let's say, the cold war era with the 2 blocks this time, the united states is

a much weaker position than he was in the 1st go. because of the 1st of all, ok, the soviet union was the military equal of the united states. but the united states dominated the world economy. well, finance? no one challenge. and china was in significant both militarily and economically. now in this, you know, let's say to, to block wall, russia and china together is a very, very formidable alliance. you go great military power from russia, and now you have serious economic and financial on china. and they are definitely going to challenge american financial supremacy. and they're really doing it. i mean, it's really the instance that you're sound of saudi arabia, which is now going to be trading in one instead of a dollar. and it's going to be an awful lot of that countries are going to start thinking, well, what do we need that dollar school? i mean, the united states can you know, at a moment's notice, just see our dollar acids. i mean, just like that, you know,

one day to the next level, like grab a dollar as well and, you know, we, we trade a well, so there's no incentive countries now to, to, by dollars. that's a real problem. so i think, you know, in this new post, post cold war, well, united states is not be in good shape. now, and it's, i think china is probably the most can keen observer of what's going on. because russia is the person g 20 country ever to be sanctioned, like this. ok. and it's a, it is an important in every single sense of the global economy. finance. it's a significant player. it's the 1st one ever to be set. thanks like this. the chinese are watching this because they have their own issues and they want to see how the russians react. see what works and what doesn't work. i think this is part of the strategic relationship. the 2 countries out your tank. go ahead. yes. and you know, something interesting about this, to another interesting dynamic and that is, you know, in a parliamentary system, sometimes you'll have a smart, small party that will, you know,

only have $6.76 or 7 m p 's, but they can be the king maker as it were right now, other countries, india is one i've been watching. you look at india, you're looking at saudi arabia and they're finding that because there is an opening for them to choose. do i want to go with the with, do i want to go? russia, bob, which block they want to go with, that they're able to punch above their weight. saudi arabia, now the u. s. is probably, you know, on their knees, begging them, please don't do this. so it's allowing it's empowering other countries to be more powerful than they thought they were in the past because they can choose the coalition. the other thing is it's kind of smoke the us out into as to what they'll do if they really feel desperate. and so a lot of countries have to be looking at this, a corporations. well the people countries have to be looking at this thing. oh, if i let the you and the u. s. whole my wallet, they might not give it back. so now people are thinking, how can i, how can i kind of quietly shift my resources and shift my starboard well funds and

my holdings out of the, there's going to be there's, i guarantee there's going to be a lot of capital flight from the west. and i've seen it from personally, from people that i know you don't feel of you, but on cross are many times with me and other guess. and i always mentioned the learning curve and you know, we're always told, you know, we or we won't do that. and, you know, we, we learned our lesson from b and we learned our lesson from iraq. we learned, but it never happens. i mean, is it institutional inertia? is it just grips? is it ideology? because as we all agree here, and you know, there's conservatives and progressives on this program here. this is just bad for the u. s. and for the western world, we, every single scenario, you game it out, they lose, but you never get that 3 cable tv. go ahead. well i, i think the reason for that is actually quite simple. i often complain when i write articles and i sort of say that about how the united states government system as it

has evolved since the 2nd world war has no accountability built into it. these people are never held accountability for what they do. george w bush's esteemed elder statesman. now, obama, likewise, i mean that, you know, when does it all in that mean? there's a huge that go on and on and on. and they're never held to account. if they're never held to account, they're going to repeat the same mistakes over and over again as they personally get rich. and as they personally make the people who are donors to them, get rich and you go on from, you know, chris, is the president with the same thing. as of was commented earlier, donald trump went against his his because he just gave him a little inkling that he might not be interested in following the formula and a car from that. trump was not a very good president, but the fact is, this sent the shock waves through the system. and we need accountability. we need

some of these people to go to jail. but you know, philip and you really hit, i think, at the core of it all because, i mean, you mentioned in as something that i really noticed them in. if you look it particularly, you know, as after the end of the cold war, you have people that were in government and they work for these are on the think tanks in the arms go go builders and oh it. and it's a seems like it's done really about ideologies about personal wealth. i mean that's, i'm sorry, it sounds very, very straightforward to be that it just greed. yeah, i would, i would have to agree with that very often in history. how is it that all these congressmen who go into congress from what we're relatively modest backgrounds, are spent 22 years in congress and come out as multi millionaires? how did that happen? well, that's, well, i don't think we're rapidly running out of time in here. but i want to say one thing important is that i told phil before the program, it wouldn't be a good program unless his dog showed up his dog is, has shown up in his,

over his shoulder here. and i feel we have a full complement on this program as all the time. we have gentlemen with my guests in washington personnel and in budapest, what i think our be worse for watching us here in our dcea next on. remember crosstalk was ah ah, ah ah

ah ah, it's 7 o'clock in the morning inside of his bedroom is the safest place, a man off because it has no windows. ah, money. you couldn't do. there are only women in the risk of family. granddaughter, daughter,

mother and grandmother. i come down when i found gad chester yet? yeah, she received my glass e the rating scholarship would chin me like very much your spar economic history. i it isn't there, found the cri, you may switch spike in as soon as anything in the army. i was very fond who thought i was played out to me of, of the, the on you bills and it goes off with your school with the new mines because a summer had all that.