a issue with mm hm. and welcome to was a part of their own war at the wrong place at the wrong time and with the wrong. and i mean, this is how the 5 star years general omar bradley advocated against extending the korean war to china in 1915 back down the american establishment heated the civilized. but more than 70 years later,

it seems to be eager to test it out with another nuclear power can be conflict in an over ukraine grow into a wider regional, perhaps even global confrontation. well, to discuss that, i'm now joined by a retired major general of the indian army. i'm the editor of the indian military review. she yelled back. she's great to talk to you a great to see. thank you very much for your time. thank you. thank you. and now introduce the want to one of the greatest non violent resistance traditions. i think we all like to consider ourselves to be spiritual children. uh huh. but it's also home to one of the strongest armies in the world. and you've given that institution many years, many days, in fact, of your life as a name dan, as a spiritual person. and as a general, i wonder how do you look at war? why do you find it if not acceptable, then at least understandable?

look good. but it your tradition as a traditional, right? yes. or just when you are fighting for just cause well then you there is no other option that you have exhausted. all right? all methods. ok. and then the other side of the bank on, you know, looking for bend on doing damage to your country that i'm afraid you have to take up. oh, it does cover to start to take up. then that is the tradition of the ideas of what you as well be caller. just want to let you know as i'm sure you would agree with me and it's hard to find an appointment to counseling that doesn't believe that they are fighting. and i'm just everybody who finding believe that they are on the right side of history. when you look at what's happening between russia and ukraine,

how easy is it for you to figure out who is in the right and who is in the wrong? let me be long, been straight forward. i am a soldier. my 1st concern is my company and it's perfection. love it, and i think it's need of an integrity and we do everything that maximizes our national it. let me explain all that i joined the army class in 1971 as a young 2nd didn't i? it was please call into the 1971, bought a b b, a big a deal of the people lot of is that a bundle of issues that we did 1000000000 event and then the bundle of issues that we didn't do it as a refugee option. but to fight because you were to stop the event, you know, that would have been a lot of the additional that was the time and it was getting so the

option, but why we're going to fight that then bentley will push back to the want. mr. tried everything at the end of food, but it cost a lot in peppy. then we had broken pocket on a on i think of 90000. so it was a that's why it was a great today. and let me tell you about the question that stood by that in and out of the b a. now i think it would probably agree with me that for russia in the military operation is unlike any other. and it's clearly has this isn't traction psycho county and it's, it's very hard for any russian to see what's going on in ukraine, regardless of whether we support or government decision of whether we oppose it simply because of the highest human type in countries. and the questions i want to

ask you as a military man and this man all strategic mine, it me and know dated question you politically. but i think emotionally and historically still very press. what do you think an operational like that would have been avoid it. i think a little bit of historical background would be essentially when the soviet union collapsed. if i think the was the been american, but they could give me a short president, but that they would not expand one in history or you forget one. and then then, now i can't believe well, which will probably be the publics of the union, which are members of the wall. so i couldn't, you know, in the middle and the last line of defense that, but i sure maybe you had the buffer as russian, maybe you had. well,

you could judge you. oh, no country is black. i like, we don't have the amount that i would like as a guy. so quite obviously you will be a the best buy the right. right. so you will need one more stage. that was what i understand. then in 2000 in august, we're at the conference in which it was decided by the american absorb the story, frankly, on. so that was the time that the russian, that said, these are out of that like, these don't cross that. and unfortunately, the deadline was crossed. good. yeah. and then the russian went into action. in 4 days they had occupied up the door. russian b robinson captured about 567. or if you look at them all, but a guy did it in defense. the next day, publication game,

when people beat, then young, risky. yeah, the russian president for the odyssey a, well, i know once again, that was all. you could join the russia. i said, you know, you're going to join the nato and you just the, i'm that of any of the soviet libby and then back to, you know, they again, rush out a food and then you know, the militia and the, there was a light. ok. thank you. for this very brief overview of history, it's hard for me to find somebody who actually knows the context of our little

neighborhood. but i wonder if i'm the bigger problem for recent, he was not even in that abstract intention on the part of your brain to join nature, but very practical, an army of ukraine with all kinds of armaments. and the question i have for you is whether you believe that major countries, the west, was pumping ukraine. this happens precisely because of the calculation that russia would never, ever allow south of military action against a, for historical and human reason. the 2 of the greatest american know when it becomes funded for me. and let me tell you with you says a eastern expansion of mental as being a tragic mistake. george gave on a but when on 2nd made i did the american that to fight. i

think you had said russia, if you have a movie, have a pension or whatever you say, yes me, i'll put it, you know, last year in july there was a big out of minutes be exercising your grades in which american troops on this plan will participate this lead, you know, you claim to believe that if it was shot it over on the ground, it would, i would go like, when i think that this has happened. and i personally, frankly think it, i mean, bottom, all, all of the united states will push. you're going to fight that i should go, but i shouldn't be i and then leave them. i would write this i'm,

i'm still fighting the russian hill. the last your credit for that i thought was made in december and december, there was a major a, b by, you know, the united states have been the but i still go, you good. and, and the united states website for a ship, a, b, b, all these were provocation, the americans a part that russia is b, b, i, b, economic, b, w. and therefore, it would be a starting of it, but it is a minute to the when it comes back to us, which are, you know, as well as russia, as now this,

that the united states had bubble across the, especially with the s 400. it can carry out and be accessed and then i got to stop it out and i stopped a mission. i don't wanna rush as back. you know, this is actually a very interesting point and review anything. most technical analysts would agree and weapons analysts would agree that russia has a logical action over the americans right now when it comes to strategic governments. but it seems that the last try to, i keep russia where it's for the most my actually coming ever closer to the russian boys. we've come to national at weapons and all the churches that were traditionally considered by russia as you know, cars or it's not a sterile tree, but at least you know, it's historical landscape. so in a way that it was also an economy move,

don't you think that to trying to try to turn the crank and i guess russian as a way of honoring whining, rushes logical superiority. no, that is precisely what i'm saying. that it is in the convention that russia has not only close the guy, but in that a lot. and you see russia already has the edge. you go, you want a $6300.00 plus you can run it by $1500.00. all your blood pressure has the form that i put on the lights. i. russia has an edge, you know? yeah. but the critical thing is, the a conventional weapons which has been a russia why, what is the right, you're not going to mention the benefit of it. and you see, i'm not saying, i'm not saying a lot of good rating service american,

but you said trying to bring judge you and you're going to put a little early to judge get up, expansion was a mistake. the eastern expansion, or i think you read the bottom of it and not as is being made out of the western media. i think it does pull things desire to recreate the soviet union. while general, we have taken very short break right now, but we'll be back in just a few moments. ah ah ah, ah

ah, ah. oh, is your media a reflection of reality? ah, in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? high solutions for community. are you going the right way? or are you being that somewhere? direct?

what is true, was his faith in the world corrupted. you need to descend. ah. so join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah ah. welcome back to will to ford, retired major general of the engine army, the editor of the indian military review jeep actually general. actually before the break, you mentioned the russian president, you recently made a point in announcing the celebration, put in and made a clear declaration of war, of the kind that used to be done back in the 19th and 20th century. he essentially

went on public media and announced that to russia and the rest of the world, what russia was going to do, obviously you can't read his mind, but why do you think such a declaration was important to him? you are absolutely right. it's a very interesting, you're starting to look at it. the fact is that if the all i've gone, i'll go, well, i went out of fashion after the 2nd world war, we have not received a declaration of war. and the point is, you know, when there was a problem, you know, they never let a conflict cut off a point, but the 2 bob was coming back to match. and number 2, there was no ostensible declaration health problems and not a well maybe understand. i understand most of the i've been on the 1st on the 2nd floor

wall where there was a good displacement, but it was a lot of in against the base, which was just you know, just before this board for president, i'm back on there. and then the game and discuss them with in spoke to why did and then he had asked for the russian order, but it's just that there was any john. so we did, he saw that. he says, yes, it appears to be something that's not a, b, b, b, a y, a u. and we'll discuss all the discussions. i, you know, i'm pretty good. there will be no change. well then again, i think that's the address where it has to be

a lot. now if you have it often, there's lots of outreach in a western world in media with regards to russia's actions. and as i said, this is a painful situation for many russians to win on taking it easily. but one thing i, you know, after covering many wars in my a journalist, korea, one thing that i kind of understand is all the moral and ethical outrage over still a limit that military action in ukraine when the western audience has been all but aloof to all the blocks that have been going on in the world over the last couple of days. i think the west has trivialized a normalized war. lonely. go on. my question to you is, why do you think people in the west, the treating this more as something absolutely exceptional as the end of the world is something that has never happened before. we're actually look at the map and the

number of refugees, a number of people killed, the number of people in hunger and the number of countries destroyed. you know, this is the reality that have been going on for many, many years. let me tell you, when you're united, i backed it up. you know, there was a, a level. what did you have a list of media. this had bad reference robots and stuff like that. the best entry was well and the bill came back to us. it all was destroyed, american wrong. when be a medical that back you have a thing that can happen. this country was again a did you have a that then i it off of the 2nd. when the

americans with, with, i mean i can give those examples. so this is a very what i do is right, a well i think a lot of the be a. busy except for the fact that you have russia, you have pushed it against the want it over to me at the i don't think people should be surprised. general, i don't know if you would agree with that, but i think over the last couple of years on the western russia have been involved in what i would call the end of history of a big americans in the former se secretary can believe arise. what we're trying to

tell russian specifically, fusion, that the cold war is over and the russia has lost. that is a specific quote from kind of lisa, right, which was surprisingly at the 2008 a was present and where georgia and ukraine were indeed very conspicuously given the green light for the prospect of membership. and in response to all, all the major talk, russia continued to says that whatever is the american view of history in the history process, russia still has it strategic. so you are the interest on it will define that way. how do you see these a historical debate developing from now on look at a, the american geopolitical. you said it was a resident by the react strategically, what, what was happening?

you couldn't look part of all the stuff you're going to be off of the arms control agreements. we get with it and i proceed. and one last 0 to go to the to that as india, as we need to do to get it done. all of it, i think it's you say if you did, i that a lot, you know, on the leave a spread democracy. well, i part communism. russia led to walk to see how much of our democracy as you may have your plan for b, r a, b, or any of the united states a, you know, i was 2nd to them either. so how is it that the american democracy is

superior to the one of the, to the one if it, on any that is, i mean, you know, democracy all go by the people. so the point is that i'm sorry, just a word, but the 2nd for well 1st and the 2nd one, they want to get it from you or i did that, it would be a bad word, right? well, but it doesn't. even if you also be able to do that. so we have to thank you, have a general, as you understand, such a drastic action that russia has allowed itself to t is bound to have certain international consequences. and i want to ask you about a political context. do you think there international players will change the way they present themselves as defined their interest on the global

stage? and in the aftermath of a operation that she's on her team, you know, as a study and i see the end of the unit all over the united states were the host. it was the phone for what the i think is the, is the issue of the, on the once again, people out of the global or don't forget the started off and the 1st one, what happened? it was a my people are on the 2nd world war happened. it was a lot of people are. and now that we have, and i bet i think order list. you'll find that there was water on the words like butt and quick like what we have already done with it. and if the rest of the world is that this is becoming very ready. thank you. 5. that as

a reaction will be operation special operation. if you invest a problem, have you all that so you can all the sanction on russia. right? and the simple fact is you will think that russia is invented. so like, and $99.00, you brought it to collapse and not if back are 5, but you have more than you know, special. right? and if the, when i say this are going to be easily, you know, escalade beyond control, didn't do that because you know, to exchanges and the like, which would be got us profit for the can i ask you one last 2. you can tactical question because there are many analysts now that i'm looking at china and some of them are suggesting that meeting will be presented with the most opportune moment

to take control over time. want immediately after russia finishes it's military operation. and you bring precisely because the western ability penalizing sanctions on to china will be very limited. and what essentially mean b weekend of the western economic dominance? do you think that's? that's a real possibility. you think that may come to pass on? may i remind you, you see history men are exactly the people that i could find when the cuban crisis happen. china jose, that opportunity, you get a price to a china back in 1962, a for a, a possibility. and i live in the back room with the chinese and

that i want them not to do this. the simple fact is that if the technical factors, if you need to do this because in the conventional and then you could, if you need it, i think on that edge or the united states. i like it would put us on the. but if we had one thing, and it's on backyard, i'm afraid china as off now. that's not have that been a good one. been over the united states. and the combination of against that intensive decides to take a look at it and up. and then you, i don't like bite on the what would be the effect of you know, less, but i haven't given that to see if i don't want to do that. that's

perfect. i think would be there because that are huge population investing. what i see is the military capabilities that would be what happens or. and finally general, i began our conversation by quoting the american general omar bradley and i want to finish it. another call of his american back in the ninety's was running on the golf. lee asked the one that i meant to run down, god, how america should look like really needs to help us all to find common sense with mercy, strategic thinking, compassion, and mutual respect. we are the main condition for lasting peace. i really pray for that. thank you. very much for being with us today. i hope you can russia, i will do all the nations of the lord. i hope all is

a good guy. well, i think that has been like, i'm sure it's going to be brought to look like a back to except that he doesn't want to join it out. if you had said this 25 days back, there would not have been all that this project even now is a way out by the way, i'm sure it's been happen and i'm sure we will be happy or time that i thank you all. very interesting. thank you very nice, but reach out to our question. thank you and thank you to our audience. we're watching hope to see you again next week with

with a news and tax on other countries. economic sanctions are, are often just the beginning. another thing you like to do is play some military pressure on the countries that you're talking about here. and there has to be an effort to demonize that country and the leader of that

country. we have a response. we do.