hello, larry wilkerson retired colonel wilkerson thank you so much for coming back on the show. just stay in the past few days. i think one reporter said to jen saki, the press secretary for the white house. why are you sending in shotguns, pistols, a grenade launchers and the like to the ukrainian people as defensive weapons? what do you make of the massive amounts of arms on top of the ones given before i rushes invasion? what it, what do you make of this arming of ukraine? well, 1st of all, to domestic per political requirement of the president by. and he has to be very outspoken about it because he said he's not going to establish an applies on or do anything that would provoke a wider war and possibly. ready war with russia, so he's got it on the other hand, show that he's doing everything you possibly can to as an electorate because they want to do more. so that's part of it. another part of it is, is military advice,

is probably these are the kinds of weapons simple to use, easy to use. anyone can learn in our how to use it, but you're all to be providing because anything more sophisticated for the general population is probably not going to be workable. those are the 2 primary reasons that they've made that sort of deceive, you think internally as a parent, again, let alone william burns the ca they think this war is in any way winnable against russia. know, and i think the other conference 1st conference in 2 years where people met in a room together yesterday. it was a real rush in experts we weapons experts and joe for. and we all agreed that the only solution to this conflict, to the diplomatic solution negotiation that let's let me at least gain some of what he wishes and allows much of ukraine to remain. a stayed

part of it being autonomous, perhaps with referenda to be conducted. however, you work out the details or recognition that crimea is going to be part of russia or ever in a day. some other things like that that would be appeasing to moscow. and yet leave some kind of intact as to what ukraine wants to be. and it's majority and settled with that and quit because this is insanity. it is utter insanity. it is making a pariah of bruton rumors out of beijing, or even the reasoning, paying his quote, best friend unquote, is thinking about making some kind of powerful statement condemning the invasion. it would be in china's interest to do so because the closer it stays with as long as he is doing this, the more it becomes a pariah to. and china already has a problem and it has billions of dollars invested in its base road initiative in

ukraine, which it was looking to be a fountain of product going into the wider europe, particularly western europe. so using things got some hard decisions to make in the next week or 2. yeah. come on. what do you think you'll come out with? i think china, my fool, you with regard to what it truly believes about violating sovereign borders. it's always had that policy. i met with the chinese leaders including long years now they're foreign minister plenipotentiary of prospective bullet, bureau member. ready in the summer of 2001 and talked with them at great length and policy planning talk with richard austin, choice and guy later to be ambassador to the united states. so i know the chinese pretty well and i know they're having some deliberations right now. about how they should act on well, there's nothing to suggest any separation from what? previously they've said, not even a alliance,

closer than the alliance between beijing and moscow. you know that i think you were saying in december, something like this might happen. we've had a bomb, a said to be expansion of nato, would lead to a kind of confrontation to was seeing kissinger did. you name it. i understand that the george cannon, the j f. k diplomat told colin powell about east where the expansion of nato and the dangers of it when you is chief of stuff. absolutely. cannon was 98 or 9 years old at the time, and he actually said it was the biggest strategic mistake america might even the cold war era. and might be the biggest one that we made in the so called cold war panorama. and i agree with him it, it made no sense whatsoever. it was done principally for arms, merchants alarm sales and money to be made. and it's a are pastors proposition that article 5,

which is what makes nato unique. an attack on one is an attack on all has now been spread the countries that a person in west texas, for example, doesn't you know where they are on a map multilateral you asked the person from west texas, or are you willing to risk nuclear war for montenegro, the 1st thing that rancher is going to ask you is where is montenegrin? so if these kinds of situations keep cropping up, the biggest partner, the biggest power, demanding the 2 percent of gdp that could go in social programs in europe. the biggest by the u. s, saying it's membership of nato would be in question. i think you're looking at an alliance. it's looking for a purpose and it's been looking for a purpose ever since the cold war ended. that purpose as articulated by colin powell and george h. w. bush. and edvard chavez, nancy and mikhail gorbachev in a certain way, was eventual welcoming of russia and not only geographically because geographically

it's there into europe and even into nato membership 1st with a political alliance. and then the military lines that want to strike in 1994 and later years when we started doing this wild abandoned expansion of the lives. but that in no way can don's an invasion into essentially a neutral country, which natal leadership and washington this leadership at already admitted they were willing to say, would never be a member of nato much the way they have done pro forma with georgia. mental good could you said that because of course, as you know, washington the by the ministration little nature leaders yet jen installed berg and the rest se nato expansion has nothing to do with the current conflict. and anyone who says that is a beauty and apologist. well, i'm not an apologist in any way. i think he's brutal. i think he's insane. now. i thought he was pragmatic. i thought he was

a brilliant strategist. i thought he was doing things capitalizing on us strategic arrows. i still think that, but now i think he's and say, and this is a brutal look at what we've got going on right now. we got 75000 children every day . joining the refugee flow. we got probably a 1000 to 2000 dead people and a lot of those. and maybe even more than that, if we count them or russian soldiers, conscripts who don't even know one of the bear. i know little bit about the russian military. i know how we tried to counsel the russian military leadership about having a professional force volunteer force. and so i know how they still have been on conscripts. and frankly, putin's disdain for these conscripts is alarming to military professional, like the believe is how goes mainstream media reports that it's not going to run a media at all the mainstream media. so you say they're certainly defiant from what the russians are being told by their media, that the war is showing well,

that it's a pincer movement. and that this is all about stopping the expansion of nato and, and if you heard, would rather be a good it was saying the other day, this is a time of reckoning now of a new world order where beijing moscow, when by delhi, let alone the entire global south, it's the end of usa gemini, this is the beginning of the end. if this is a new world order, the new world order will not include russia. that's the problem. and i'm getting my information from sources that have been given me information on russia, maneuvers, for example, in russia from 2012, all. i'm getting them from scandinavians and others who've been actual observers at these exercises. and you know, the russian military, it's far better than anyone else. certainly. ok. and they've been telling me what's happening within the ranks of the russian military. and they've been telling me about the disdain. that person has for the military comes from the k g b. why wouldn't he have

r c i a the stains are military to. there's no reason for me to believe that bureaucratically speaking in russia, the k g b disdains the military also. so that, that's alarming to me as a military professional, but bigger here is the prospect of snatching opportunity from what is disaster right now. and that opportunity is to reshape the security architecture in europe. and what i mean by that 3 fundamentals in your man, you're journalist, as it were, theodore moving off suggested this the other day. we need a new paris accord, and then we need a movement towards this architecture. there be 3 fundamentals to it. one washington gives up a desire to have a gemini over western europe to moscow gives up the desire to reconstruct the soviet union to germany over eastern europe and 3, europe, 740000000 strong. the gdp of equivalent to americas now gets his

political, financial, economic act together stands up and forms its own security architecture. and that europe would have russia in it the way we haven't been. and it, in the early ninety's, russia is a part of europe. russia would be in that new security architecture to hell of the c. s t o to hell with nato. your stand up and have russia as a partner within your ranks. well, obviously that is not what the biden administration is seeking for as fabbing the rusher and said he doesn't wanna regrade the, the soviet union. china, as we remember from that alaska meeting when the, by the ministration came in, said never lecture to china, what it's doing. and in fact, there were tie one maneuver this weekend against mainland china, the china increasingly talking about the u. s. the, the, the tragedy of usaa gemini, india refusing to support the un security council resolution that the u. s. a in

albania put of you and at the un african countries, there are people demonstrating in the streets for russia. saudi arabia not taking the coal of joe biden as he beg your reasoning to your own propaganda. who i'm just asking, what do you, how do you see this context? i mean, do they even recognize maduro in venezuela, the largest oil reserves? no, no, a reserves on earth do they recognize maduro suddenly no, no one including my russian contacts. by the way, no one tells me that they have a positive view of what's happening in ukraine right now. the law to south america to central america. no one tells me from columbia from venezuela, from algeria, from egypt, no one tells me they have a positive view of it. modi's problems in india right now are rampaging with his persecution. that is muslim population,

which is the largest muslim population in the world in a single state. it easier? i think. well, no, it actually bigger than in the nation's total population. so modi's got his own problems and has to walk a very tight line. plus, he's buying all of his military equipment or at least 6070 percent of it from russia. so i understand that. but what we've got going on here, as i said, is an opportunity why we want to take this opportunity. because we have 2 huge threats in the world right now that are absolutely out of control nuclear weapons, largely because of the united states of banding in the abm treaty to started off. and then the i n f treaty and then open skies. we abandon all of our arms control and we both russia and us. the 2 predominant nuclear powers are in fact embark on a new nuclear arms race and they're talking about battle fuel utility. russia actually published military doctrine saying that if nato were to penetrate c s t o

area, they would hit the point and the flanks of the penetration with small, you tactical nuclear weapons, very dangerous situation. in the 2nd crisis we need to me, i mean, we need to cooperate and collaborate is the climate crisis. look at the i, b, c. c report of 28th february. we're headed towards 3 or 4 degrees. we're going to make this earth on livable. we're not gonna stop you that more from the former us secretary of state colin powell is a chief of stuff after this break. i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order is it conflict with the 1st law, show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence.

and the point obviously, is to create trust rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with a with

with welcome back. i'm still here was retired, colonel lawrence wilkerson. what were you, a secretary of state colin powell's chief of stuff? the climate crisis obviously is the worst challenge that the world faces. but there has been a lot of talk about nuclear weapons in reason week, says lensky saying that maybe ukraine would tricked into removing there's, has russia now put it in danny ideas that nato might have of putting in nuclear capable miss? i launches in ukraine forever. i would like to hope so, and let me just say that that's preposterous because the coach, edna our authority for firing ukraine's weapons never left moscow. we know that

colon pow knew that we knew that. so you, graham, given up its nuclear weapons, was just a pro forma event. how would they of use them even more likely the leave could do with like a whole nuclear weapons there would make a version where moscow has the same kind of controls that we have. and you can't just go out and use of nuclear weapon because it's on your territory. you're going to say that our independent nuclear deterrent and britain is dependent on the us. now i, i'm know they've got the same policy as moscow, a martian and they have their own coach and roamed permissive action locks and other things to protect the nuclear stockpile. so it's saying that ukraine should have kept its weapons would be like, i'm sitting on a piece of metal. i can't use it. what we like to present zalinski on the show of course, jake sullivan. lee, thank sullivan. the new natural, relatively new national security advisor, though that strongly associated with libya use the phrase full force again to rush her. if $11.00 project dial hits a over a border of

a nato nation. what do you think he means by full force? well, i think what we're looking at is people who are, shall we say not schools, as i just indicated in the realities of the cold war. you don't make those kinds of statements when you're facing nuclear power weapons and lowers nuclear weapons powers. you have to walk a very fine line. we're not in this age when you know people talked about hitler and stopping him because you don't want to m p a p m. you don't want to be a chamberlain. and so that's bull. it's not analogous. we have nuclear power is now facing one another and 4x5w4x4w ukrainians. committing suicide would be better than a general nuclear weapon exchange because 7000000000 people would commit suicide. so this, this is not the kind of statement you want to make in this environment. these people have lost both in russia and in,

in moscow and in washington. they've lost the lessons learned during the go war, which is you never want to start this because it will in with total destruction. we had to form a national security advisers on. we've obviously love jake sullivan, it to come on. i as for the, as you said, people in west texas, but it could be right through the middle of the united states way, which is seen such the industrialization in recent decades. do you think they're okay with the, all the weaponry being paid for with the u. s. public money to ukraine, and yes, absolutely. because they have been horrified what they're seeing with regard to ukraine. and one thing the mainstream media has done all across the globe as been to portray what's happening there in pictorial form. in many instances, when an sas are taking photographs and so forth, and the carnage on both sides,

russian tanks destroyed, for example, and cities and towns being artillery and mom to the, its going out into america. and leave the same pictures again. but when they were being told that we have, gavin was ok, that libya war was ok. the things were successes for the united states or the american public. as it faces. direct impacts on their living standards, let alone the price of gas petroleum. they're going to continue to believe the pictures the way the companies that produce and use our give me want to use them. well, that's a good question. americans are particularly fickle sometimes about their support for things like mandatory and assistance for your crime. but right now it's out for and i see signs and starbucks would you like to give money for carrying refugees? and i see people forget out the dough. so right now it's very much in favor of helping and what happens in the future is anybody's guess. i'm sure some of that will dissipate, but i can tell you right now that the general feeling i'm getting from capitals all

over the world is that they're surprised because they like me thought to be or pragmatic man. and they see him now as being megan maniacal and wanting a statue on red square, 500 years from now. that says, well, i mean, greater than catherine and peter combine. that's certainly the way the story is told by a so called made stream media. i mean them, why do you wire that from a russian journalist not from mainstream media? why? why the and, and the em, plenty of by the russians oppose the war within russia. we saw thousands arrested on the streets of major cities through, throughout russia. had you think good when the iraq war was going on your cheapest after the sector stayed, you would consider censoring media. like the way the media is being censored in the united states and nato countries. today, our

t being taken down right across europe and the use of twitter and social media companies to destroy the other side and to curb any kind of descent. let me tell you my view. yesterday i was asked to comment on off it to go into one of our major newspapers done by military veterans. i said i will approve and allow my signature to go on that off it. if you changed the last paragraph. the last paragraph had a sentence that said something like this before i changed it, it said written should be hall before the international criminal court or wherever, and he should be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law as being a war criminal. i said you have to change that sinister read as it reads, comma, as should george w bush. and dick cheney for establishing a tor to regime and state approval. but as you know, they say they will then haut as just tony blair on the left that left that name out

. well, not too much more of that. i got to think of it talking about the international criminal court. it was ukraine that brought to the international the world court. it says go to justice saying, look, rushes claims. it was genocide against russian ethically. russian people in the east of ukraine was genocide. and the court said, look, we can't say whether the russian caves a true or not. if they were then under article $51.00, there was a possibility that russia's invasion of ukraine is actually allowed under international law. but at the same time, russia must suspend its activities in ukraine. is there a way out in the will call it because of genocide claims by moscow and the doom, of course, the communist party of russia, very much to the for forcing the hands some say in russia of the united russia party that supports boot in moscow? well, i think those kind of effort, children prosperous,

actually i watch cold. well, try to get that done with regard to sudan in 2002 and 3, as i recall. and the protocol is the protocol. all that genocide is a difficult thing to proving. it's even more difficult find to get governments to act on. i think the bigger problem here is how do we negotiate a settlement? how do we stop this? how do we give a little bit a lot? moscow wants a little bit of what cash launch and maybe sacrifice a lot of what nato wants. washington lot on the altar of a deal. i think we have to do that. but how did the arms companies, whose shares, i mean, skyrocketing since the beginning of this conflict, as said in history media, because it goes to russia and it began 8 years ago with the russian, with the overthrow of the government in a u. s. rec forces. how, how does that benefit the companies if your prescription is followed and you have

a peace settlement, he got me in switzerland by the way, sits in the know, get neutral. how does that benefit on is company money for which your american public is so generous to where you get a point there. if you saw the piece in the guardian yesterday or day before yesterday, you know that one of the reasons the guardian and i think they're right points out that the more draconian sanctions won't work on the oligarchs in moscow is because washington's oligarchs and germany's oligarchs and frances, all go on to their entrepreneurs. they're there, they're together and they're working together in the banks and everything else. so i asked the same question about moscow's military industrial complex. will those influences keep this from being sent home because they are making so much money off of it and incidentally, burden is making lots of money off increase gas prices. so those influences might indeed keep us from having a settlement to this conflict. i hope not,

but i know how i know how bad those influences are. even while the children of ukraine dying. there are no these beneficiaries of this conflict that made a 1000000 that long that have such lobbying power can prolong a war. yes, yes, they can prolong a war, they can get a war. now, if what you want doesn't happen and why, why do you think say saudi arabia wouldn't take joe biden's cool. i mean, what, why would a power like that not take your buttons, go away with a you a not support the united states. you know, if i were to count with our own summer, been all month or the leadership in the amorous, i would love the gas price increase. and i'll tell you why. because they know they see the handwriting on the wall. a $1000000000.00, for example,

was spent in the united states in the last 5 years on ease electrical vehicles. they see the handwriting on the wall. the market is moving away from fossil fuels, black rock that owns as you probably are aware, half a world black rock as advised. it's investors, it's shareholders. it's companies to do the same thing. so they see they're going to have trillions and trillions of dollars, a stranded assets that is assets, they can burn assets, they can turn a cash. so they want the maximum price now for that gas and or so that's why they support that sort of thing. that's why they can't say anything about it because they want to continue to make that maximum price of that. if you just very believe briefly on the new well daughter, these components needed for this new electrical vehicle world and all the rest of it. the commodities, i mean, then on the mental exchange goes down the nickel exchange this week because of the

war in ukraine. isn't that why they're so confident in moscow? and beijing actually had that alone in the global south that this war is that turning point, the minerals and commodities, they're all going to go the other way. they're not going to go west anymore. you know, i can tell you right now, most of my lockers in the global south or furiously angry with the global north because we are doing things to fight climate change. finally, the market is moving that way, but we're leaving them out. we're completely excluding them. whether it's faxing for cove it or whether it's movement towards their problems with clean water to drink, or arable land, which is drying up now. and the water tables are shrinking in west africa. it's becoming an epidemic. they see us paying no attention to them and they're right because basically we aren't going to larry works. thank you. they care. that's for the final show in this to year though. if you're watching this on saturday, it will be replayed on monday and despite nature nation, any you,

censorship will be back soon with a brand new look. but until then we'll be showing you some of your favorite shows of the season so far. we again make an appeal to you creating and officials to come on the show to give their perspective on the war. you can keep in touch my role as social media, if it's available in your country. and remember, you can continue to watch going underground episodes globally on tv outside need to align countries and always odyssey, and it r t dot com. but you know for your book, because if you know i'm still up on yeah. still can scott, i'm yeah. who to support what kind of board missed a report with the way?

would it be all the good news? you the picture? good. huge. but you're more difficult does was too late to 3rd up on a bus to reload your school a roller, then you shouldn't have been really well. yes, you said of all of them. i was actually in this particular what potential pushes mean, pushy, i get some pushy a. somebody see wayne lee could i do it on bison? since to start a fresh is military operation in ukraine. the west is talking, russia and russians. russia side of the story is essentially absent and intentionally. so. on this edition of the program, we talk with 2 pre eminent russian scholars about their own country and ukraine.

a with nato publicly misled russia into believing the block was prepared to accept ukraine as a member, despite private and telling care that they cannot join the u. s. lead alliance admits president the landscape. it is all these large caliber autocad and for example. but the point of the ship to transport troops and heavy equipment, we report from ukraine k port hub, the dns, recently captured by the russian military and now being used for humanitarian relief efforts to help civilians and the embattled city of mario plus the m and face is a growing human.