all conflict that could be even more deadly than iraq. afghanistan libya or syria and join effort falls, church virginia by pals, former chief of staff, colonel larry wilkerson retired colonel wilkinson. thank you so much for coming back on the show. just stay in the past few days. i think one reporter said to jen saki, the press secretary for the white house. why are you sending in shotguns, pistols, a grenade launchers and the, the like to the ukrainian people as defensive weapons. what do you make of the massive amounts of arms on top of the ones given before i rushes invasion? what it, what do you make of this arming of ukraine? well, 1st of all, to domestic per political requirement of frozen by. and he has to be very outspoken about it because he said he's not going to establish an applies on or do anything that would provoke a wider war and possibly a war with russia. so he's got it. on the other hand,

show that he's doing everything you possibly can do as an electorate because they want to do more. so that's part of it. another part of it is, is military advice, is probably these are the kinds of weapons simple to use, easy to use. anyone can learn in our how to use it, but you're all to be providing because anything more sophisticated for the general population is probably not going to be workable. those are the 2 primary reasons for that sort of deceive giving internally as a parent, again, let alone william burns the ca they think this war is in any way winnable against russia. know, and i think the other conference 1st conference in 2 years where people met in a room together yesterday. it was real rush experts, we weapons experts and joe for. and we all agreed that the only solution to this conflict, to the diplomatic solution negotiation that let's let me at least

gain some of what he wishes and allows much of ukraine to remain a state part of it being autonomous, perhaps with referenda to be conducted. however, you work out the details or recognition that crimea is going to be part of russia or ever in a day or some other things like that that would be appeasing to moscow. and yet leave some kind of intact as to what ukraine wants to be. and it's majority and settled with that and quit because this is insanity. it is utter insanity. it is making a pariah of bruton rumors out of beijing, or even the paying his quote, best friend, unquote, is thinking about making some kind of powerful statement condemning the invasion. it would be in china's interest to do so. because the closer it stays with pearson, as long as he is doing this, the more it becomes

a pariah to. and china already has a problem and it has billions of dollars invested in its base road initiative in ukraine, which it was looking to be a fountain of product going into the wider europe, particularly western europe. so using things got some hard decisions to make in the next week or 2. yeah. come on. what do you think you'll come out with? i think china, my fool, you with regard to what it truly believes about violating sovereign borders. it's always had that policy. i met with the chinese leaders, including long years now. they're a foreign minister plenipotentiary prospective bullet bureau member in the summer of 2001, and talked with him at great length and policy planning talks with richard hoss in choice and guy later to be ambassador to the united states. so i know the chinese pretty well, and i know they're having some deliberations right now about how they should act on

well, there's nothing to suggest any separation from what previously they've said, not even a alliance, closer than the alliance between badging and moscow. you know that i think you're saying in december, something like this might happen. we've had a bama said to be expansion of nato. would lead to a kind of confrontation to we're seeing kissinger did. you name it. i understand that the george kevin, the j a k diplomat told colin powell about east where the expansion of nato and the dangers of it when he was his chief of stuff. absolutely. carolyn was 98 or 9 years old at the time, and he actually said it was the biggest strategic mistake america made in the cold war era. and might be the biggest one that we made in the so called cold war panorama. and i agree with him it, it made no sense whatsoever. it was done principally for arms,

merchants alarm sales and money to be made. and it's a or postures proposition that article 5, which is what makes nato unique. an attack on one is an attack on all has now been spread the countries that a person in west texas, for example, doesn't you know where they are on a map multilateral you asked the person from west texas, or are you willing to risk nuclear war for montenegro, the 1st thing that rancher is going to ask you is where is montenegrin? so if these kinds of situations keep coughing up, the biggest partner, the biggest power, demanding the 2 percent of gdp that could go in social programs in europe. the biggest by the us saying it's membership of nature would be in question. i think you're looking at an alliance. it's looking for a purpose and it's been looking for a purpose ever since the cold war ended. that purpose as articulated by colin

powell and george h. w. bush, and edvard chavez, nancy and mccallum. gorbachev in a certain way, was eventual welcoming of russia and not only geographically because geographically it's there into europe and even into nato membership 1st with a political alliance. and then the military allies that want to strike in 1994 and later years when we started doing this while the band and expansion of the alliance . but that is no way condones and invasion into essentially a neutral country, which nato leadership and washington this leadership had already admitted. they were willing to say, would never be a member of nato much the way they have done pro forma with georgia. it's still good and good. you said that because of course, as you know, washington the by the ministration little nature leaders yet jen stultz, burge, and the rest se nato expansion has nothing to do with the current conflict. and

anyone who says that is a beauty and apologist. well, i'm not a apologist in any way. i think he's brutal. i think he's insane. now. i thought he was pragmatic. i thought he was a brilliant strategist. i thought he was doing things capitalizing on us strategic arrows. i still think that, but now i think he's and say, and this is a brutal look at what we've got going on right now. we got 75000 children every day, joining the refugee flow. we got probably a 1000 to 2000 dead people and a lot of those. and maybe even more than that, if we count them or russian soldiers, conscripts who don't even know one of the bear. i know little bit about the russian military. i know how we tried to counsel the russian military leadership about having a professional force volunteer force. and so i know how they still have been a conscript. and frankly, putin's disdain for these conscripts is alarming to military professional like naval go, mainstream media reports that it's not going to run the media at all the mainstream

media today, they're certainly depart from what the russians are being told by their media that the war i'm showing well that it's a pincer movement and that this is all about stopping the expansion of nato. and if you had, would rather be a beauty was saying the other day. this is a time of reckoning now of a new world order, where beijing, moscow, one by delhi, let alone the entire global south. it's the end of us gemini, this is the beginning of the end. this is a new world order. the new world order will not include russia. that's the problem . and i'm getting my information from sources that have been given me information on russia, maneuvers, for example, and russia from 2012, all. i'm getting them from scandinavians and others who've been actual observers at these exercises. and you know, the russian military far better than anyone else certainly are. and they've been

telling me what's happening with any rank. so the russian military, and they've been telling me about the disdain putin has for the military comes from the k g b. why wouldn't you have r c, i a, the stains are military to. there's no reason for me to believe that bureaucratically speaking in russia, the k g b disdains the military also. so that's alarming to me as a military professional, but bigger here is the prospect of snatching opportunity from what is disaster right now. and that opportunity is to reshape the security architecture in europe. and what i mean by that 3 fundamentals in your man, you're a journalist as our field or even off suggested this the other day. we need a new paris accord. and then we need a movement towards this architecture. there be 3 fundamentals to it. one washington gives up a desire to have a gemini over western europe to moscow gives up the desire to reconstruct the

soviet union to germany over eastern europe and 3, europe, 740000000 strong. the gdp of equivalent to america is now gets his political, financial, economic act together stands up and forms its own security architecture. and that europe would have russia in it the way we haven't been. and it, in the early ninety's, russia is a part of europe. russia would be in that new security architecture to hell of the c. s t o to hell with nato. your stand up and have russia as a partner within your ranks. well, obviously that is not what the biden administration is seeking herself as fabbing the rusher and said he doesn't want to recreate the, the soviet union. china, as we remember from that alaska meeting when the, by the ministration came in, said never lecture to china, what it's doing. and in fact, there were tie one movies this weekend against the mainland china,

the china increasingly talking about the u. s. the, the tragedy of us had gemini, india refusing to support the un security council resolution that the u. s. a in albania put of the you and at the un, at african countries, there are people demonstrating in the streets for russia. saudi arabia not taking the coal of joe biden as he beg your reasoning to your own propaganda. who i'm just asking, what do you, how do you see this context? i mean, do they even recognize maduro in venezuela, the largest oil reserves? no, no, a reserves on earth do they recognize maduro suddenly no, no one including my russian contacts. by the way, no one tells me that they have a positive view of what's happening in ukraine right now. long to south america to central america. no one tells me from columbia from business whaler from algeria from asia, no one tells me they have

a positive view of it. modi's problems in india right now are rampaging with his persecution of his muslim population, which is the largest muslim population in the world. in a single easier i've heard, well, no, it's actually bigger than in asia total population. so modi's got his own problems and has to walk a very tight line. plus he's buying all of the military equipment or at least 6070 percent of it from russia. so i understand that, but what we've got going on here, as i said, is an opportunity. why would we want to take this opportunity? because we have to huge threats in the world right now that are absolutely out of control nuclear weapons, largely because of the united states have banning the abm treaty to start off. and then the i n f treaty and then open skies. we've abandoned all of our arms control and we both russia and us. the 2 predominant nuclear powers are in fact embarked on a new nuclear arms race and they're talking about battlefield utility. russia is

actually published military doctrine saying that if nato were to penetrate c s p o area, they would hit the point and the blanks for the penetration with small you will tactical nuclear weapons, very dangerous situation. then the 2nd crisis we need to me, i mean, we need to cooperate and collaborate is the climate crisis. look at the i, b, c. c report of 28 federal work. we're headed towards 3 or 4 degrees. we're going to make this earth on livable. we're going to stop you there more from the former us secretary of state colin powell is chief of staff up to this break. ah ah

ah, more than a century ago marked when remarked that god created war so that americans would learn geography and few u. s. officials have done more to put that into practice than my guess today, for my us national security adviser and former us ambassador to the united nations . john bolton has supported all basin american lab wars. he's absolutely appalled by russian actions in ukraine. why is that? ah

ah, welcome back, i'm still here. i was retired. go to lawrence wilkerson. what were you, a secretary of state colin powell, chief of self. the climate crisis obviously is the worst challenge that the world faces. but there has been a lot of talk about nuclear weapons in recent weeks, as lensky saying that maybe ukraine would tricked into removing the as has russia now put it in danny ideas that nature might have of putting in nuclear capable miss . i launches in ukraine forever. i would like to hope so, and let me just say that that's for bhaskar is because the coach edmonds are authority for fire, ukraine's weapons never left moscow. we know that go on bow knew that we knew that your grain given up as nuclear weapons was just a pro forma of this. how would they have used them even more likely the really good it with like a whole nuclear weapons there. let me give her where moscow has the same kind of

controls that we have. and you can't just go out and use that nuclear weapon because it's on your territory. you're going to say that our independent nuclear deterrent and britain is dependent on the us. now i, i'm know they've got the same policy as moscow martian and they have their own coach in rome, permissive action locks and other things to protect the nuclear stockpile. so it's saying that ukraine should have kept its weapons, would be like, i'm sitting on a piece of metal. i can't use it right. we're right to president lensky on the show . of course, jake sullivan. lee, thank sullivan. the new natural, relatively new national security advisor, though strongly associated with libya, use the phrase full force again to rush her. if 11 projectile hits a over a border of a nato nation, what do you think he means by full force? well, i think what we're looking at is people who are, shall we say not schools, as i just indicated in the realities of the cold war. you don't make those kinds of

statements when you're facing nuclear power weapons and lowers nuclear weapon powers. you have to walk a very fine line. we're not in this age when you know people talked about hitler and stopping him because you don't want to m p a p m. you don't want to be a chamberlain. and so that's bull. it's not analogous. we have nuclear powers, now facing one another, and 4x5w4x4w ukrainians. committing suicide would be better than a general nuclear weapon exchange, because 7000000000 people would commit suicide. so this, this is not the kind of statement you want to make in this environment. these people have lost both in russia and in, in moscow and in washington. they've lost the lessons learned during the go war, which is you never want to start this because it will in with total destruction. we had to form a national security advisers on. we've obviously love jake sullivan,

it to come on. i as for the, as you said, people in west texas, but it could be right through the middle of the united states with which it seems such the industrialization in recent decades. do you think they're okay with the, all the weaponry being paid for with the u. s. public money to ukraine, and yes, absolutely. because they have been horrified what they're seeing with regard to ukraine. and one thing the mainstream media has done all across the globe as been to portray what's happening there in pictorial form. in many instances, when an sas are taking photographs and so forth, and the carnage on both sides, russian tanks destroyed, for example, and cities and towns being artillery and mom didn't, it's going out into america. leave the same pictures again. but when they were being told that the guy was ok to the libya war was ok,

the things were successes for the united states or the american public. as it faces direct impacts on their living standards. let alone the price of gas petroleum. going to continue to believe the pictures the way the company is the produce and use our give me want to use them. well, that's a good question. americans are particularly fickle sometimes about their support for things like mandatory and assistance for your crime. but right now it's out for and i see signs and starbucks would you like to give money for carrying and refugees? and i see people forget out the dough. so right now it's very much in favor of helping brain. what happens in the future is anybody's guess. i'm sure some of that will dissipate, that i can tell you right now that the general feeling i'm getting from capitals all over the world is that they're surprised because they like me to be or pragmatic man. and they see him now is being made maniacal and

wanting a statue on red square 500 years from now. that says later mean greater than catherine and peter come that's certainly the way the story is told by a so called made stream media. i mean them, why do you wire that from a russian journalist not from mainstream media? why? why the, and, and the am plenty of plenty of russians oppose the war within russia. we saw thousands arrested on the streets of major cities through throughout russia. and do think her, when the iraq war was going on, you cheapest out to the sector state, you would consider censoring media like the way the media is being censored in the united states and nato countries. today, our t being taken down right across europe. and the use of twitter and social media companies to destroy the other side to curb any kind of descent. let me tell you my view. yesterday i was asked to comment on off it to go into one of our major

newspapers done by military veterans. i said, i will approve and allow my signature to go on that op ed if you change the last paragraph. the last paragraph had a sentence that said something like this before i changed it. it said, written should be haul before the international criminal court or wherever, and he should be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law as being a war criminal. i said you have to change that sinister read as it reads, comma, as should george w bush. and dick cheney for establishing a tor to regime and state approval. but as you know, they say they will then haut as just tony blair on the left that left that name out . well, not too much more of that. i can come to think of it talking about the international criminal court. it was ukraine that brought to the international the world court.

isn't it? go to justice. saying, look, rushes claims. it was genocide against russian ethically. russian people in the east of ukraine was genocide. and the court said, look, we can't say whether the russian take the true or not. if they were then under article $51.00, there was a possibility that russians invasion of ukraine is actually allowed under international law. but at the same time, russia suspend its activities in ukraine. is there a way out in the will call it because of genocide claims by moscow and the doom, of course, the communist party of russia, very much to the for forcing the hand some say in russia of the united russia party that supports boot in moscow. i think those kind of effort, children prosperous, actually i watch cold. well, try to get that done with regard to sudan in 2002 and 3 as i recall and the protocol is the protocol. all that genocide is a difficult thing to proving. it's even more difficult thing to get governments to

act on. i think the bigger problem here is how do we negotiate a settlement? how do we stop this? how do we give a little bit of thought moscow wants a little bit of what cash launch and maybe sacrifice a lot of what nato wants. washington lot on the altar of a deal. i think we have to do that. how did the arms companies, whose shares, i mean, skyrocketing since the beginning of this conflict? as said in history, media, because it goes russia said it began 8 years ago with the russian, with the overthrow of the government in a u. s. rec forces. how, how does that benefit the companies if your prescription is followed and you have a peace settlement, he can't be in switzerland by the way. so it's of no longer neutral. how does that benefit? honest company, money for which your american public is so generous to where you got a point there. if you saw the piece in the guardian yesterday or day before

yesterday, you know that one of the reasons the guardian and i think they're right points out that the more draconian sanctions won't work on the oligarchs in moscow is because washington's oligarchs and germany's oligarchs and frances, all go on to their entrepreneurs. they're there, they're together and they're working together in the banks and everything else. so i asked the same question about moscow's military industrial complex. will those influences keep this from being sent home because they are making so much money off of it and incidentally, burden is making lots of money off increase gas prices. so those influences might indeed keep us from having a settlement to this conflict. i hope not, but i know how i know how bad those influences are. even while the children of ukraine dying. there are no these beneficiaries of this conflict that made

a 1000000 that long that they have such lobbying power can prolong a war. yes, yes, they can prolong a war, they can get a war. now, if what you want doesn't happen and why, why do you think say saudi arabia wouldn't take jo, biden's cool. i mean what, why would a power like that not take job items go? why would the u. e not support the united states? you know, if i were to count with our own sama been all month or, or the leadership in the amorites, i would love the gas price encourage. and i'll tell you why. because they know they see the handwriting on the wall. a $1000000000.00, for example, was spent in the united states in the last 5 years on e v. 's, electrical vehicles. they see the handwriting on the wall. the market is moving away from fossil fuels, black rock that owns as you probably are aware, half

a world black rock as advised, it's investors, it's shareholders, it's companies to do the same thing. so they see they're going to have trade ins and trillions of dollars of stranded assets. that is assets they can earn asked actually can turn a cash. so they want the maximum price now for that gas and or so that's why they support that sort of thing. that's why they can't say anything about it because they want to continue to make that maximum price of that. if you just very, really briefly on the new well daughter these components needed for this new electrical vehicle world and all the rest of it. the commodities, i mean, then on the metal exchange, close down there, nickel exchange this week because of the war in ukraine. isn't that why they're so confident in moscow? and beijing actually had that alone in the global south that this war is that turning point, the minerals and commodities, they're all going to go the other way. they're not going to go west anymore. you

know, i can tell you right now, most of my lockers in the global south or furiously angry with the global north because we are doing things to fight climate change. finally, the market is moving that way, but we're leaving them out. we're completely excluding them. whether it's fac scenes for cov it, or whether it's movement towards their problems with clean water, to drink, or arable land, which is drying up now. and the water tables are shrinking in west africa. it's becoming an epidemic. they see us paying no attention to them and they're right because basically we aren't going to larry looks at thank you. they care. that's a for the final showing this year though. if you're watching this on saturday, it will be replayed on monday. and despite your nation and he, you said the ship will be back soon with a brand new look. but until then we'll be showing you some of your favorite shows of the season. so far we can make an appeal to ukrainian officials to come on the show to give their perspective on the war. you can keep in touch my role as social media, if it's available in your country. and remember,

you can continue to watch going underground episodes globally on t v outside need to align countries and always on odyssey. and it r t dot com ah, since the start of brushes, military operation, ukraine, the west is talked at russia and russians, russia side of the story is essentially absent and intentionally. so on this edition of the program, we talk with 2 pre eminent russian scholars about their own country and ukraine. ah, ah ah, that's another way you. wow. do you easy while find it? oh, yeah. boy, it's

a fun slide. yes. south. yeah. thrashing with carson boys. now watch done for me at that i'll pull up my pizza is emma? yeah. full video. sure. sure. let me just kim's room, she thought, did you say a desk my thought or janine did it again to you or jim? pretty up in the be a lot about this morning after search financially through

with cranes, president zelinski says it nato publicly misled russia into believing the block was prepared to accept ukraine as a member, despite privately telling you that it can't join. i'm being told that every day, more and more such trophy weapons fall into the hands of the russian troops. party takes a look at 8 years of western arms supplies to ukraine, believed to have fueled the conflict in ukraine. ah, you countries are split over whether to impose an embargo on russian oil. as politicians say the measure would severely impact the blocks economy.