that was made by merrily exclusively, actually by the west that in the post cold war order, that order has failed, and institutionally, it's failed, ideologically. it's failed. and so where do we go from here? because institutions, in least the way i look at it would be to be russia or in tatters. go ahead, max will remember in late 90 eighties and early 99 is francis fukuyama road. he's famous of the end of history essay. and i think what we're observing now is yet another end of the end of history, in the sense that, you know, but back in the day the argument was that the world kind of pound, it's ideal framework for development liberal democracy market economy. what struck me over the past week, and that brought me to think that we are now seeing the end of the end of history. that the, the 3 countries, the united states turn to, to seek to undermine russian can agree on energy markets and on the world. we're

iran, saudi arabia and venezuela. i think the end though, they're all great partners of the russian federation. but for years, the united states have sanctioned them and blamed this how it is in particular for human rights violations and all kind of stuff. but right now it appears that you know, if, if the bad is cold good, when the worse happens, according to the u. s. logic, but i think it sends the signal to, to the rest of the world. that there is no such thing is for the value base foreign policy. and what we're seeing is interest based foreign policy and it will be in this particular conflict, will be settled on interest based solutions either for war or through balance of interests, me to you. so, you know, one of the things i find very interesting is that when you look at the cold war in the, in the post cold war order that ended, in my opinion on february 24th. you know, it is a system that had a hedge on that. they basically called the, the,

to the terms and conditions of engagement. but now we're going back to great power politics the way it has always been in history. i think the know that it was the, the cold war and the post cold war order. and they were anomalies in history and, and i think that, you know, a citizen read doesn't understand that most back. it is politically driven. we're back to great power politics. go ahead. oh, i think that we're witnessing the with the local to international relations and certainly of the periods which began with the soviet union is now over a normal period in the history of international relations. well, the united states with the count of allies tries to universalize a value system, certain series of institutions. and the stablish, basically, if you more system worldwide. now it for, it's clear,

the american foreign policy is changing really drastically. and i also witnessed the end, or at least a pause, a significant force in the value based on all of the of the united states. this is a certain continuation of the trend which began with donald trump and continue with your why them with united states and it expands the system of u. s. a. u. s. live alliances will be actually canceled also for regime change in the other congress. i also see limits to the u. s. power to the u. s. ability to lead and to act as a be level of hedge more because the level of huge amounts they produce global public goods. and they offer something, something positive to the congress that wants to engage in their system.

what does the united states offer now to congress the washington wants to support the us and to contain russia? what does the united states over 2 countries like china, india, brazil, except for threats, except for black male in the new thing, since the sanctions? i think it means that, you know, the united states of course remains a leader and the engine won't. but for a very limited number of countries, especially in europe, in some countries in asia. but as for the rest of the world, we are really watching the birth over new international system over new era in the development of the international system,

with much greater pluralism ever since with much greater independence in terms of the posters. a institutions, you know, we've mentioned the end of history here. i'm kind of, i'm kind of curious how we got here. so it's the end. it's the end of whose history i think it's the end of the west narrative about international politics. kind of agreeing with dimitry because, you know, it was always this attempt to graft on russia making part of the, the, the, his, the, the west believed in itself. and then this attempt also to deal with china and we've, we've seen obviously they doesn't work. i mean, russia very forcefully is bought at that. ok. and the chinese are watching very, very carefully. they're watching how the end of ones there's what's the new one

part of the world's history, and now we have the start of another world's part of history. i think that, you know, we're seeing the end of something and then the beginning of something, go ahead and why don't disagree with that and to talk. and then, you know, speaking of china, i think there is a really interesting concept that's giving direction right now is what the chinese are now trying to substitute the concept of the soft power in a coin by joseph 9 in early 9090. and that was dominating the r theory for, for a long while. they're now trying to promote their own concept of the so called discourse flower. so basically they say, you know, there is, doesn't really matter what types of soft power tools you have. what matters is that you said the narrative that you set up the discourse, and that was going to matter right now. and i think we're observing a lot of over the crisis in ukraine. you know, these kind of the battle of narratives and the one actually, you know, both the united states and russia are, in the way speaking to their own audiences. you know,

that's why there is this wide spread argument that russia is one called losing the information where it is losing the information. we're in the western audience. well, at least the, you know, as, as we see here, but we are doing quite well according to americans own estimates in the, in the rest of the world. and, you know, you know, russian narrative gets picked up in india and china in other countries. and that, i think also is quite different from what we've seen over the past few years. and they know, coupled with these well what, what will appears to be the further detail arise ation of the global global enemy. you know that the, the, a lot of people in there now, mean, you know, the sanctions on the, in the russian all of course, which in my view, we're doing a lot of favorite touch of the russian economy, frankly, bought a lot of people and typhoons all over the world are watching this,

careful and thinking, well maybe we shouldn't be investing all that much in the west that you know, even one day our assets will be free. so just like that. so has been, is way look, what happened, did their goals? ok, exactly. ok, it, it limit with change gears a little bit here. i mean we talking about control of discourses and narratives here. but to me 3, it's very coercive to quote unquote, western values because you control the discourse or control the narrative. you restart the censorship. i mean, that's what we've gotten here. i mean, if you do not get on board with the official narrative, you're an enemy you, i mean it's not like, oh he just or she disagrees. no, there is a moral value, but on it you are a traitor and i and that it's very terrifying because that is in complete juxtaposition to what the western tradition is all about. so i would say by a,

using these are narratives in a very forced way, but it's a very cool course and i'll come on the values that you claim to uphold. go ahead to meet. well, i think that we are viewing a combination of factors on the one hand, of course, the west remains dominant in the global narrative makes, the western narrative continues to prevail in the global system. this is why we see such a great informational war against russia. the actual information is one of the few elements of power where western dominance is still maximum. but all the other hand, i completely agree the course of usage of this narrative actually accusations of the congress that do not want to cite with the west and remain either neutral or friendly towards russia, increases the gap between the western,

the rest and one of the most prevailing and dominant them says international relations nowadays is the acceleration of this gap, right? we are on the one hand of course the west continues to the collective west continues to, you know, to come together to consolidate and consolidation of the west consolidation of the prominent allies and powers together with the united states congress like germany, japan and so on. this is indeed one of the most important elements of international relations nowadays, but on the other can't get with this consolidate the west of the majority of international relations. because huge, right? this includes china, this includes india, brazil,

the overwhelming majority of the african countries, including south africa, greeks conference, altogether, the overwhelming majority of the countries in the middle east and latin america. so the west consolidates both kind of isolated from the prevailing majority in the world and the more your so the western black male is informational narrative. the usage of economic instruments such as sanctions, the wider is the gap. so yes, the waste remains immensely important. of course, the west remains the bridge, also old mania trans i informational narrative, but the role of late them the war in all the west and the world are, remains arranged. narrow consolidation is a pirate. big are generally we're going to go to a short break,

and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on some real news st. ah, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. and the point obviously is to place trust rather than fear a job with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with

a, with the welcome to cross top where all things are considered. and peter, well this is the home edition remind you were discussing some real news. ah,

ah ok, right before the break. actually one of the jumping, i can see your lifting, your figure finger go right ahead. well, i'll just going to say that the, the lines are actually a little more blurred these days than just, you know, say that the russia and west and the rest. because inside rush, other lot of people who are sympathizing with western western agenda and in the west, there are a lot of people who are sympathizing with the russian agenda. you know, i've had, i've, i've spoken to a colleague in dawn bass with a few a few days ago. and he remarked something very important that struck me his saddle . we're seeing a lot of russians are seeing the, their story that the russians or what's happening in the prey. and this is striking to us because we've been dying for 8 years for the right to be called the russians . you know, we, we see this as striking,

a striking difference even within society. so i think where we're seeing a lot of this fractures inside these groups, you know, the less than the ref. well, we always with this kind of complex, there's going to be even within society is going to be a lot of differences, which is at the end of the day healthy. ok, but it's painful as well. i mean, when i interviewed for ministry law for minister a r t very interesting interview a few days ago. and actually i have to say, i really enjoyed it because he basically said the russians relations of the west to come to an end or a, a, a free. so to put it that way. and it's really up to the west to approach russia if it wants to have a relationship to the outside world. that it seems almost absurd. but if you look at the context in this, everything is context. it just makes sense. russia tried to play by the rules, the rules kept changing. russia agreed to things and then agreements change. and so

what's the whole point? we saw this from december of last year, all the way up to february 24th. you gentlemen are. all of these are prime ministers and presidents are born minutes are all coming to moscow for all for now because they weren't willing to listen, they weren't willing to negotiate. and that's how we've gotten to where we are now . go ahead. well, well peter, i fully agree with a lot of in a sense of the whole paradigm of the whole body of russian west relations or which, which existed over the last 30 years is not that. and we are not just political relations, but all the comprehensive system of links and interactions being just burned though, which includes economic relations, humanitarian relations, tourism, cultural educational ties. ever for me personally, you know, i was born in saint petersburg and for me, a very indicative moment was when finland decided to cancel the

relations between 2 and petersburg. these brought with relations were established in 1963 with the city of lang and ground. and nothing later, you know, including the approx green, you know, soviet invasion, inter, get them, nothing preventive, the continuation of those rather good relations. but today it decided to cancel them. so all the body of relations is now burned down in these the very paradigm of russian and directions with the west is or which was the paradigm of russia, of west centers i, in russian foreign balls. and russia really rise to establish something common european security system and many other things with the western europe. you know, in mind in mind is not the price to integrate into the western system. it failed.

after that, russia has been trying to establish some sort of you some sort of arrangement and agreement on the rules of the game between russia and europe. it also failed. and ultimately, russia was compelled to ensure its interests unilaterally with the, with the use of military force. so this previous paradigm, when russia rise to find some models, the band, this, on my commendation with the west is, or we are at the 0 point. what come comes next? actually div depends on the, on the west and the major alternatives of this. alternative number one. we come from this 0 and the stablish some peaceful coexistence model with very limited amount of interactions with very limited. i g and i'm still very important. and so just a conflictual, you know, managing arms, race, arms, control,

reservation of some elements of interaction and human relations come back to normal when it comes to tourism and other elements. this is one of those which is of course much more preferable. the other alternative, if the west decides to continue to do both the war against russia even beyond the end of the military conflict, in your credit or no, no sanctions. i've been repealed, or at least granted, if there's still a huge political attempts to convey russia to isolate closer to destroy the russian economy. again, the end of a war in that is another read. it is the paradigm of the continuation of war through more legal means. and then unfortunately, we will ultimately face for escalation. let's see if we take the,

the 2 paradigms, the tooth that the 2 options that we just heard. it seems to me there is a continuation from the end of the cold war to the present. and then ultimately it is forced bridging change and russian. i think it's going to be number 2. well that we'd, what we just heard is that there's, but this is all part of the continuum. and this is war. it's see, this is one of the things i mean, i think that the populations, particularly in the west, they don't understand that word anymore. war with russia, the west is at war with russia right now. we don't want to use that word because everyone thinks that i'm looking for more. but we're all, we're up to that point. and this is an economic war and information war, cutting civil society on everything. ok, i don't see why it's going to say, well, they won't stop. i mean, there has to be in, in a gemini,

doesn't appreciate barriers it will resist and continue your thoughts. well, i agree, i'll just draw your attention to, to import in my view things one is, remember the war in syria and all the massive information pressure campaign on russia that you know, the, virtually hold it of this policy of regime change in the, in the middle east, the past week president assad, travel to the united arab emirates for the 1st time. which, you know, i think, is remarkable progress in, and, you know, how russia sees things in the middle east in particular. and, you know, in kind of, in defiance of all the western policies over the past few years. and the 2nd thing is anyone still talking about the think of the political interference that is dominated us russian relations over the past 4 or 4 years. you know, that the,

the crisis in ukraine makes it look like it's a totally normal tool of foreign policy. and we remember that a lot of things were slipped on russia for political interference. you know, and russia spoke about, you know, america's interference now and remember like, oh, you big of a deal that was, you know, that the russian political interference, all kind of stuff. now all of that is going. busy under the bus because there are other more important things on you're talking about rushing. yeah, exactly, exactly right. so. busy what i, what i'm trying to say with this is their big things, the dominate rush of west relations. and, but you know, what we're seeing now is really a reality check of all the things like what's, what's really, what's really important. and i think some new type of relations will emerge from, from, from that, the key moment to me. whether the west would be willing to come to terms that

russia is, is, is in, well, italy, what quote appear will power competitor is how much the west will will get heard with these policies and conversations and other things. it is doing that, russia is the way that the west itself is doing. and, you know, i can easily imagine how the quote unquote regime change in russia will, will happen a lot later than the quote unquote regime change in the united states. it's such an interesting point for, you know, the us and its allies have a very long history of sags and countries that basically cannot defend themselves. ok, they can't defend himself militarily. they can't defend themselves economically. and that we have a g 20 country that is being bully assaulted and be the fact that it is an important country in the international system in every sense of the word. there's going to be blow back against the west. i mean, you can,

you can punch up panama and it's not going to change the future of the western hemisphere. ok, but when there is a breach like this on this of this scale, the blow back is almost. it's almost impossible to determine if this point media will ricochet for years. will go ahead jump in. well, peter, i think that this is precisely one of the major factors why a peaceful coexistence modem might prepare in russia where relations after the end of the war in your grave course. the continuation of total economic war attempts to isolate russia diplomatically will backfire. they have already started far, you know, the, the west has completely exhausted the potential for those sanctions. the door back. right. the west is now implying the instrument such as trade war, you know, i,

a cancellation of russia's most favored nation status in trade, which destroyed the global economic go and switch, destroy the w jo global economy and destroyed the dominance of the us dollar in global finance so on the one here, the united states, for instance, clearly supports the continuation of war in ukraine and prevents a weak political resolution to be achieved. on the other hand, the continuation of war means innumerable. number of refugees, which are called in millions long in a, in hundreds of thousands, which is an enormous pressure on the west. in the corners, the destruction of the global economy might result into hunger, not just the deficit of 4, but fewer conquer. in many african countries, which are dependent on the import. so we've done so far,

it means also enormous integration into the west european conference, right. and they need to think about this. so in order to remedy and to manage those challenges, they must come to the new terms of relations with russia. of course, the paradigm will relations will continue to be confrontational, but peaceful coexistence in the previous school was also a part of buffalo because we have run out of time, gentlemen, but i always tell western policy makers, be careful what you wish for as all the time i'm john one, i think my guest here in moscow. well, i think our viewers are watching us here at our dc and next time remember, crosstalk was ah, a

mouse another. well you, wow, you easy. wow. furnace. ah. yeah. or you know, it's a one slide. yes. south yeah. rush us out. with that. the new dock. awesome boys. now watch done for me at that i'll pull up my pizza is emma? yeah. full of video from she'll let me just kim's room. she thought that it says the why fi ela? a yes. my thought watching in the it again the audio fortune pretty up my be a lot about this morning. just financial. ah .

it was a she is a still open yet still green scott, i don't know who to support what kind of board missed deal with . could you please, you know, put the way, would it be a little good? a good, huge, but you're more difficult. it was too late to 3rd up, up, up for the day of school, or throw that then you shouldn't have been really well. yes, you said all of our stuff, my wife actually didn't care what potential pushes newman in pushy. i get some pushy a somebody steve way, li, today,

due to come by soon. ah, more than a century ago marked when remarked that god created more so that americans would learn geography. and few you as officials have done more to put that into practice than my guess today. former us national security advisor and former us ambassador to the united nations john bolt and has supported all recent american lab wars. he's absolutely appalled by russian actions in ukraine. why is that? ah ah, a

ah, you claims that president zalinski says that nato publicly misled russia into believing the block was prepared to accept your claim as a member, despite privately telling you that it won't join i'm being told that every day more and more such trophy weapons, all in the hands of the russian troops actually takes a look at 8 years of western arms applied to ukraine, believed to have fueled the conflict in ukraine. you countries are split over whether to impose an embargo on russian oil as politicians that say the measure would severely impact the block to conduct a.