maliciously distorts the intentions and nature of nato. i understand that you have not the mental health professional, but who version of reality. you find that more to be more rooted in the tax on the ground and in the realities in the norms of water and geo politics. you see, i have been a career diplomat and i have been a member of parliament. and now in london politics, i have a pity that you should never judge larger issues of the vin. since the 1st flo demonize ish, you may have a perception of walked the on there. trump was like, you may have a perception, a walk precedent for them is like. but there are individuals who are trying and sure within

a given set of circumstances. what is best for their national security? so i, i don't believe in it, dr. and i don't endorse and i don't accept this attempt of trying to show you with some kind of, of megalomania who's, who is beyond the bill of rational thinking. let's get out of that debate. so we have to now seeing the overall circumstances analyze. and then i just really want the solutions can be well speaking about those overall circumstances, 5 weeks into this operation, russia and there was still seed in starkly different terms for the west. it's an actual unprovoked aggression with absolutely no antecedents did. for russia, it's about a horrible i would even say,

but inevitable last last resort means all for protecting what it considers to be insecurity, interest. you have the benefit of well i don't want to go on your graphical distance. do you think those visions of reality do you think those perceptions of the world and of security concerns? you think they could be somehow reconcile? so at some point the grill. whoa to balance became a skew. the berlin wall gemini, real night and common perception. it's in the feet of communist soviet union and the. ready war so fast. and so the perception grew not unfounded, that it is become a world in which the united states and its allies,

in particular made to have become the real custodian of what is good for this world and what is not. and in that capacity, i think for a considerable period of time, the united states act to lead lead out the rule of the song, create global policeman. and the various moves that wishes to apply to other nations will act in response to one bit perceived to be their security in chris. those rules, america for is not applicable to them. so it could with impunity go into iraq on the basis of a suspicion that iraq has weapons of mass destruction. there was no legitimacy to that action united. it felt that as this so claimed

custodian a, what is good for the global order that meters are separate, you know what the, what it should be it can do wanted was to live as long as somebody has bought a new country casa, was created, and most important the expansion off the united states and made oh, without told off what expansion or mimicry group bring me to other kind of with respect it's not like this issue rose, yesterday. i mentioned was we didn't send back in 2007 and already and then unix security conference and many other occasions russia was sounding is displeasure. it was just explaining it,

disagreement with that strategy. pretty straightforward terms. and i understand that americans, whenever i had talked to them, you know, like they are very forgiving of themselves. they always sort of appeal to the best intentions and then some mistakes would be made along the way. so they wanted, what's beth for iraq? and it's a 1000000 people happen to be killed because of that. well, you know, that's, that's it, that's what happened. essentially, it's not that, well, that's the way history and all that. but when it comes to rush, it's not like this is something that they weren't really aware of because russia was very, very, very persistent in trying to bring that to that attention. why on earth, when they hear to that, even for their own sake, because if they look at what is happening in their world and even the american actions that they have to just that comes back to heard them as well. i mean, it's not so much an issue. all i really do for me. i just don't understand the lack

of pragmatism here for the essential one. you have understood. and i think all the power specially in europe need to think about is the off of the, of all of the bullet war. subsequently a new architecture of europe on certain basic principles which respects the legit too much security and geopolitical concerns of all major problems. i don't think that will negotiate some of that. i think even america, nato, for just not mister city. and the apprehensions that russia expressed about just unilateral expansion of lead boundaries, bit of free an influence on what is the military grouping. we must understand that need to is not some kind of democracy come. it is

a military grouping which has provisions today, hostile action against anyone else who to not a part of mentor to. so the relentless east expansion of made good. the read it under been the author, russian was bottled for a walk, a reaction in my view. at some point, i'm not saying this justifies the division of grid. i'm trying to give a perspective to it. and i think america and need to, and the list in general, felt that they could get away with actions because russia was a diminished power and would continue to accept walk were obviously threats to own perception of sphere influence of security. and by the way,

it was not always an innocent expansion. by that, i mean countries. i mean in you grid, there was a regime change in 2040. now countries of frequencies will be there. but there is some evidence of pity that though the west was listed in the all showing off one leader of your grid. and his replaced one by some one more for us to more amenable to more inclined toward the west. we have to take a very short break right now, but we'll be back in just a few moments. h and ah,

what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy confrontation, let it be an arms race is on offensive, very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very difficult, time time to sit down and talk ah ah

oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation for community. are you going the right way or are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the dep will remain in the shallow l look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a

robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence. at that point obviously is too great truck rather than fear i would like to take on various jobs with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot must protect its own existence with ah ah, um ah ah ah ah,

a ah with ah welcome back to the park with come on for my career in deployment and form a member of permanent mission to the united nations ambassador before the break, we just talking about the international system and how during certain historical moment that americans seem to believe that the end of history has come and they are

sort of the custodians, the forever custodians of this world. but that is clearly changing and i think you would agree that the events in your crane will accelerate the speed of that change . i think at the core of that process, a very simple but amanda has a very difficult question and that is whether the american view of themselves as the leader or as a head german of the world is compatible with other countries developmental i, john does what other countries can be what they aspire to be with americans being good day in system being on the question is definitely not for russia, but i wonder what would be the answer rather is definite, you know, for russia, but i wonder what it is for a country like india can indeed be what it is to be with americans holding on tightly tonight, self appointed lead. i didn't want to be in diplomacy

dialogue, and i think i must come for dial me leading power of the word. let's conclude to the news. the world is still increasingly becoming a lot of people know what of the united states is a powerful it is the world's largest democracy. the nave door is a power full miller crew. but at the same, you have a concrete like russia, which is in its own right off to mission, a remarkable culture. and if i may add that because psychology is very important in the understanding of diplomacy, i think russia is still coming to jones with the dismember rent

of the soviet union. so other countries need to be careful in dealing with the current group. we're just still reading off that's as powerful as the united states and military jobs. but, and that's it, that they should be turning the other way around. because i totally agree with you that especially geopolitics psychology is paramount. i mean, it explains pretty much everything bad in the acceptance, all the multi polar reality, and it's not like it just appear. and they've always been like that in a well with like some 200 countries. unilateralism is unsustainable to begin with because everybody has their own divergent interest, but that substance by the americans of these multi polar reality. also with me in the end of that vision of themselves and the end of that vision of the world, they will have to redefine who they are in the world. do you think psychologically they can take it? because on some level,

it's very similar to what the russians had done had to go through. back in the $99.00 is the total collapse of that own self perception. do you think that americans can hopefully not take on that level of a cognitive dissonance, but at least to really find themselves in the world in diplomacy and in the unfolding at some point, reality makes in america for that is this so global follower of the was russia as a so it's so unfortunately, by reading your credit, but nevertheless couldn't read to the americans that there are limits to which, unilaterally you can push a singular agenda on the bill. we also have j. china is arising

bar and in the, in the pacific you have a situation where the american, it is not uncheck assuming that if i may assist or india is emergent as one of the concrete words, most populous countries, fastest growing economies, a nuclear power of life. and genuine democracy and a great civilizational header that goes back to the dawn of time. so these are aspects that matter in terms of cell reception of how followers that gun receive those china looks upon it so with its own wrong, it's free as ultimately clement to the high table on the word rush. i mean there, in the, in the spiting to be the united states is seen there,

but it must get room for other people to join it, you know, to, to give that to the other people in other countries to join it. it needs to know something about those histories that you mentioned. and i think part of the problem in the world today is that americans are not only arrogant, but actually ignorant of the world. and it's, you know, cultural heritage is history. the differences within its people, et cetera. now you mentioned china and i know that in your other interview, you expressed concern that the latest developments and ukraine rhetorically, very vocal. but given that typically very timid response of the west may involve in china into a more masculine way of defending what it defines as it's national interest. how concerned you are about that, and how likely is it that in china will undertake a similar action or comfortable actually being in taiwan or in the,

on board of disputes, minutes, neighbors. you see this is concerned about now you can understand why we are both too large issue groups share are disputed border recent history of conflict on the border. several wars as well. and we are concerned about aggressive job that have been in goshen or 3 for recently. and the chinese seem to be guided by the notion that they are deserving of a degree of self unilateralism and go to problems and in there has to be naturally careful about not working or schools. those china goal from great. i think that china had already been drawn that,

that the united states is not the singular global part in the word and back in less than the has mean reinforced by russia action in view. great. so i don't think it will lead to excessive chinese adventure because i'm out, it's mutually assured destruction. i mean, the world is balance. but at the same time, china, i think, is one thing to tell the united states that i, we have been telling you so many countries in the world. i've been saying that the united mission system is discredited. now, if you flips the 1st 2nd war world war to be entities, it means sort of the new reality of a new global law in which that is far more acceptance of

a my people are word and you have to negotiate the areas of influence on accommodation with each other, rather than believe that one can get can the site what the should be. so we are looking for a new architect, gerald, secure to do the work. you spend years working at the united nations representing your country. and i'm sure you know, from the inside, how manipulative, ineffective, that process can be. and that, that countries, especially on the most crucial issues they talk at one another rather than to each other. there's a lot of sharing, there's a lot of preaching very little room for genuine discussion for, you know, given and taking it's more about politics and intrigue behind your back rather than, you know, coming around the table and trying to come up with a joint solution. and as we're talking about the changing world order,

what do you think could be created? what kind of a system could come and represent resent that opportunity for actually enjoying decision making in some sort of an open ended dialogue rather than the united nations being these, you know, these plays where the countries come to, you know, said that position without necessarily being engaged in diplomatic discussions is to did the united nation is essentially under by and then from dish and i find it while the russia and the united states can occasionally be rivals this year on when you are being the 511 and the security council and the shannon are interested not allowing that to expand . so we have to change the architecture of the united hello other countries who

also we've considerable influence, who are good for the trees of economic power. what aspiration to be bought, to support in the genuine sense, in the reality deliberations about the next phase of the kind of word order. we need to move that process. we require the corporation of the united states, but also russia. second thing, if i may quickly, is that the europe in particular today needs a dialogue where it will settle the principles of the new edifice of security which needs to be better after the fragmentation of the soviet. for now, we have only a few minutes left and i will try to squeeze in 2 questions. one about the comment,

because we talked a lot about security and how it may change in part because of russia actions. but the global economy is changing rapidly to you at this time because of the american response to ration actions on the implications are far and large. when you look at the global commodity markets and the projections of where they may be, you know, a couple of months from now. how does it make you feel you? my view is that there are 2 meds. emily's one is the mutually assured destruction of nuclear. and that is the new truly assured deprivation of sanctions. sanction. those are not a one way street. it's an interdependent global. my view is that the west made so dependent upon rushing gas and crude and other roll

sources will also feel the binge of the sections. sanctions can bite in the short trucks, but they are not the answer. in the long run, especially where crude oil is concerned, oil and gas, there will be an attempt to stabilize prices by boosting production on other oil supplier nations, especially in the middle east and venezuela and iran, or whenever possible to compensate or sanctions against russia. but i think a much better resolution economic demands is a ceasefire, a negotiated fees, and a return to dialogue on the diplomatic table. one of the major concerns right now is the rapid growth of food prices,

not only because of the ukrainian development, but also because of their lockers swarms in africa and the drought in north america making the spectra world wide hunger much more isn't well. and not only talking about the western population, they have some reserves, they will not be dying of hunger, but we are talking about, you know, the population of developing countries in the south, in africa, maybe even in asia. given the state of disarray in international community. the thing is, it's up for that for that challenge right now? no, i believe not. the world is just recovering from the coven to bend there. countries need a period of economic stability and access to basic switch. but as the west has gone beyond what the rest are world is not. so therefore india has always

taken the stand on this issue. as fairly, as it was possible that the war short and that russia and ukraine should talk and that in europe, in particular, there should be once again the resumption of dialogue, which leads to an enduring peace period of stability and prosperity. so we have been doing this and we believe in that because as a developing countries are still are in a stable global, well, economic or well, and that's there. thank you very much for your perspective. and i may add for your wisdom, it's been great pleasure talking to you to the pleasures my and thank you for watching hope to hear again next week on well the part

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one a. with that you for that reason, yet your partner with what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy. even foundation, let it be an arms race is on offense. very dramatic development. only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successfully,

very difficult time to sit down and talk with the headline stories this hour, emergency services in ukraine, say firefighters. up until it must have blaze out of fuel depot and low balled outside of the russian military confirms it conducted strikes on ukrainian army facilities in the city parties. senior correspondent visits the southern ukrainian city of melia pump, which has been under a russian army control for almost a month to see what the light is like there. and these fully loaded machine gun belt is far from the biggest hole that's been brought in order. all sorts of weapons including pistols, the sold waffles, machine guns, grenay due and.