artificial intelligence with a robot must protect its own existence with oh mm hm. mm. and well, the part lined and good as things have always been, it must have qualities for those thinking and welding power. but the definition of food, or even politics, is much harder to formulate with russia and the west. now trading accusations of

irrationality and even madness over their expenses in ukraine, is there still any common ground to be reached? well, to discuss it, i'm now joined by henry that on dean of the school of government and politics and most of the state institute of international relations is, are some that are great to talk to you. thank you very much for your time. thank you for your invitation. now the launch of the russian military operation in ukraine came as a surprise not only do many in the way, but i also think too many in russia, including myself. it is true and that ukraine over the last couple of years was increasingly being militarized. it is true that it presented an objective security challenge for russia. but do you personally believe that this issue, this problem will be addressed in such a way? i mean, sooner or later, it should have been done this way because russia doing not only this is

that even before russia has always signalized threats. and the problems which russia faces in its relations with the western countries, with nato, with each of the nato member said along because the threat to be rational security are never, never taken into account the world. i guess the main target and the main goal of the need to doing last years was to pose a try to so russia propose several times a resolution to this problem in a way, russia, russia, unfortunately, we have heard that it's not going to happen. then we've heard all the language. so i think it was predictable that sooner or later it's going to happen like this. i

have a question of many of my gas and i want to run by you as well. do you think both my brains and this with your crane was militarized recently as well as with which ukraine openly pursued and to russian policy and policies and politics? do you think it was in fact, based on the calculation that no matter what russia may rumble as much as that one, but he would never average use military force against your brain for a whole host of strategic cultural, emotional, psychological, as well as kinship. read them. now i guess it was keeping in mind that ukraine is going to be the one to start regression, another one against done, but people living down the street and maybe a against russia as well. so target was that we should try ukraine and the main i'd say target number one would be to bring russia into this

conflict and make this complex as long as possible. and you can see this by looking at the types of weapons which are provided to your brain. there they are. there are 2 words ukrainian says something soft, which reminds me of the way they worked with to tell him any other. they just supply them with weapons which are necessary for parts unknown war for a long and very, very demolition for any country. and it's economy and it's population of war and they have no other target. there is a territory which should be handled in threat to russia, security, one of your colleagues, somebody said before that that the key problem of russia foreign policy. what ask

you to this below because it builds your craft. in other words, the rush was drawing its red lines and was signaling discomfort later policies. but essentially, you know, decision makers in the west didn't believe that russia would do anything, cannot say in response to that, do you agree with that? so who was god most coast or the west that the kremlin repeated or need not take countries used to the fact that iraq a country which has lost in the cold war and it was maintenance to, to russia for this 2030 years. however, the world has changed in 30 years and the russian government so many times that there are some territories which present strategic importance for

russian federation. and it's not going to be possible to work with those countries to make them become part of the national union. so are we going to call or economy or military without taking into account the position of russian federation? maybe up to this moment, they are going to thread, we're going to, we're going to stress the importance of some points but who are not in the most decisive way. however, now no one has a very serious when it comes to read last for security. and then this perception has turned into it's exact opposite because when you look at how a media russia is intentionally being turned into a prior to gene is presented as

a murder psychopath. the tendency to apply psychological framework for what is essentially a foreign policy analysis. do you think that the manipulation or is the west indeed, who even around on, you know, structural precursors to this crisis? if we talk about lead, don't countries, they are fully aware of all the speech we have for the moment. but the things you have mentioned, yes, they are mainly used for the inner politics and for kind of pressure or in the civil society of the countries which are now targeting russian economy. and which are also developing some russia aggressive measures against the russian federation. because you, you shouldn't be able to explain your population,

why they're going to suffer in the coming winter. why everything is going to be, why, sorry, triple more expensive than it used to be several months ago. you should make them believe that this is the price they pay for fighting something terrible and something very dangerous for themselves as well. so that's why they are, yes, they are trying to present rushing this way because what the united states do in this moment is they can destroy the perspectives and the future european. and because for, for the united states, their relationship with russia are much less important than for europe in union because the differences, almost 10 times our trade balance with the united states is around $30000000000.00 with new york. it's more than 200000000000. so a huge difference here,

and that's why it's very difficult to explain to any german or retail or any french or i don't know, citizen, no, union, why are you. ready going to live in, in a terrible way in the coming. why or a way to pay much more for regular products which you're used to in case you tell them to approve. because the truth, 8 years ago, a tries to and it was a special operation in this case, is it possible to explain all these things to your citizens? but if your present russia as a terrible country president, a terrible things are much, let me ask you about the reality check that will also have to happen on the

russian side. given the sheer scale of the challenge is that russia to put it up and i don't only mean the military operation and the western sanctions it but also i think our country bears national responsibility for rebuilding the infrastructure and you know, creating at least a modicum of governance in the ukrainian territory is now under reference control. do you find all that burden that russia took one? it's out realistic. the thing if care there is and how long do you think they'll take and how much it will take away from russia own development. ok, well i think to answer this question, i really have to answer another one. well, there's also many times in different interviews that the special operation might be in ukraine. however, the war is against the west, in general,

and against the order which we have for this moment. then when the special operation. and we're going to change that over the future of ukraine. but also the way the international relations are composed and the way the international financial system is composed and the way actually in the countries russia 30 years. this is important because i'm fully, i'm absolutely sure that russia is capable. and it's not only that capable, but then russia is going to bring can the special operation to a successful. and afterwards, i'm sure that russia is going to get all the points for each for strategic importance, for a russian federation before this special operation and all the requirements and the mass which russia is presented to the ukranian government. they are all going to be

met. but then i'm sure that afterwards the world has to change and we're going to live in a completely different world. because just to just to make sure that that's going to happen. just imagine that we're doing this one month, the western countries, and the so called global world, it cetera. they have they, they've taken all the resources, they've had, they've taken all the instruments and mechanisms, they have and ages to destroy russian economy. they are never saying to destabilize russian political system, then everything, all the steps they are taken now are to make the russians to protest and oppose its own government, which is not happening. not going to happen for sure, because the russian government is much more a legitimate b, american government or,

and you can go sometimes i have to do something new here because we need to take a very short break. but we will be back in just a few moments to talk about how the world is going to change states you ah, a, a, it isn't with a fellow

with me one a, you know, the school of government and politics and because said, institute of international relation mr. center and before they break, we're talking about the shifting world, the weather. and i know that it is a much bigger issue down just ukraine. you ones that historically, russia has already twice helped to shade the architectural global security 1st after the piano congress. and then after the delta conference i you saying that we are now witnessing the time. it's surely going to happen like this. and i have no

doubt, because as soon as the special operation ends in russia gets all the all the points which are presented, the demands towards the ukranian government is very, can be obvious that the resources of the united states, which is considered to be the main dictator and i can live like a dictatorship that's, that is because if different from other forms of government is that dictatorship doesn't have any law which is going to limit its power. and we have seen that 30 years have been the countries we've seen consider they, they could, they never paid attention to any international law obligations. so in the 30 years

they haven't behaved themselves. and i mean, the traditional relation says, as a dictator, now, when, when it, when it becomes obvious that all the resources they had are not enough to try to oppose russia. it's very justified the mass, the world will have to change. and in many countries are now looking at this process and it should be said that when we succeed in this special operation is going to be much easier for us to talk with friends and with its enemies, with its opponents and with allied is going to be much easier, so many countries around the world look and see what is this world which exists before this is where the analysis stage for the only center for taking what

is this world politics really capable for what it is capable of and you don't already use it all the resources against russia and when they are going to fail in their attempts to limit our influence, the territories which she presents for us for russia. then those countries are also going to have their own. so the way they're going to behave in the company. so i said before that, unlike the united states, russia is not speaking global leadership or global hegemony. not only because clearly it lacks the resources to maintain it, but also because they sensually philosophically amounting polar system based on a balance of interest says multiple better. why that russia has never presented any sort of idea ology or any sort of topical teaching. which idea would be to incorporate all the nations and all the people of the world

into one system or one mother of government for 70 years? russia was the communist country, but the economy said there was nothing but russia in europe, but did doing the 1000 use rush through. we see that russia was never the country which tended to create a universe. so teaching, which would be obligatory for all the nations on russia territory or any sort of universal model of governance, political system, political regime, etc. you can see that those nations which are part of the russian empire, they always kept their own national identity. russia was very thoughtful and very attentive towards their religion and their religious culture and heritage in

general, this is the follows of traditional russia. whereas when we look at our counterparts, we see that wherever they come, they try to bill their left, his liberal political philosophy which they try to bring to a political systems. most media universe, the schools over the over the and the result of the best that those systems, they just, they don't know where we have a change, which are we, which becomes a worse result. possible speaking or respect that i agree with you. russia historically has demonstrated to its neighbors or even people living within the larger russia. i want to ask you about how it applies

to ukraine in europe, because you are not. russia still has a stake in montana, ukraine's state and ukraine sovereignty. of course, that is assigned to military neutrality. why is that? why with russia be interested in the same age to having a plan as an independent state? well, russia, they were put in target making any other part of russian duration, or station or any other state. we've had many cases where parts of the state which are populated by different oops, they have declared their independence and their willingness to be part of russia. that is, the thing that happened when, if the part of ukraine returned to crimea low basque and

done in republics, they don't wish to be part of russia and they wish to be part of the state, or, i don't know, maybe they would be there on this i don't know what's going to happen because russia surely now the country to offer by the territories of 4 states and to say, any territory of the country that never happened before. and russia declare for many times that our military operation doesn't have target occupying. you said ones that the united states actually what the united states actually needs desperately needs is a model based on the constant and everlasting threat of mutual destruction. so even if the americans don't have a need that once to pick up the fight with them, they will have to either in one or create some semblance of apocalyptic strive. why

would that be beneficial to washington? first of all, the political elite, the united states, always needs that in order to to have the political programs and the, and to act the way they usually do the study. they always have someone who was willing to destroy the united states that was not important. that was saying, or wal mart duffy or but we're, all of them have no, i don't know why they were so dangerous for the american people that the united states had spend billions of dollars to act and to start military campaigns. the term of those stage or 2 to the lives of thousands of their own people and also be in the sub fly. so the

citizen, so the country they have invaded before. so this is the 1st target, the 2nd one. and you can see as soon as there is russia for the united states as very easy to control the european countries. i mean, one year or 2 years ago, we were talking about nato being almost debt. now, each time joseph visits any european country or makes his speeches in his saying that we're all together, countries are together. we are costs holiday to mainly have because they tried to picture russia and the last one to destroy the over the country. so the european continent becomes much easier to control mainly on guessing that the most aggressive mutual member countries are the baltic states and put those st. are the ones who are pushing the most in the most aggressive against russia. and in order

to make easily or any other european country, which was before this was so it cared much less about those threats. now it's a very easy way to pressure the public opinion to change the public opinion to consolidate them longer. united states ruling even higher on the higher level. you mentioned a couple of western last or is and for a long time, those wars, the populations of those western countries were isolated from the consequences of those war, especially the americans who have the benefits of to oceans. but i think starting with the arab uprisings, especially in syria, the europeans started to feel the pain 1st in the way, my grandson, that you know, responsibilities that they have to increasingly take for the african security nowadays, or with russian crisis. as you mentioned,

the europeans are going to see the, in their stores in that pocket and gas stations, et cetera. do you think they will still be housed in stockholm syndrome mentality and being super beat in to the americans? or can it actually have an opposite effect? when the push comes to shove people, and when the, when, when the current is palpable enough, that people may actually change our way of thinking and realize that perhaps the world is not. and they have been told it is i think so, no later the things are going to change. i meant sure that the european union is going to exist in a way, at least in a way into this now. and i'm not sure of that all in the future. so when we are going to have the next. ready maybe we're going to see the 1st result in the european countries. i mean the wants to take place in half

a year in the countries we're losing fully co forces or the ruling forces were to lose maybe a month ago. maybe they're going to. ready succeed now because they were going to lose 2 political parties and leaders, which were not pro ration, but they were much more were they were saying that we cannot exist with russia. we should have a dial or central know because of the history and because of the, the hysterical propaganda which to last me being the countries neurons for this, for this, for, for at least the law for those political parties to be much more difficult now. but if you look at the perspective of 23 and 4 years,

i think that you are going to suffer a lot because of what they do know they're going to agriculture. they're going to have problems with guests, which loyal and as a result maybe during the elections. so did as are now going to have a direct connection between what happens in the period of sanctions which their governments have imposed towards russia and what they have for their shows in the so in any way they are going to boulder gauge those governments. and i'm trying to go to same place. i think her, what was going to change a lot for russia as well is that we shouldn't know, wait for the attitude from the european countries change towards russia. or we shouldn't have hopes that you know,

they're going to have another president and maybe there's going to be better this. i'm going to be better. we should do that in mind. and we should understand what our real national interests are. and we should work. i the way that our national interests are always followed by the are the states. if not, we have our last and are actually going to be like this. ok, well, on this point, mr. saturday and we have to leave it here and thank you very much for meeting with you. thank you for watching hope to see you again next week on with me. ah,

ah ah, needs to come to the russian state to never see i've tied as i'm phoning no santini . i'm not getting a 55 with i'm speaking with. we will ban in the european union. the kremlin media machine, the state on to russia, to date, and r t sport next. even our video agency, roughly all brand on youtube, with

a small scale agrees to drastically would you say it's a military activity, nay. kia for the sake of successful pays talks following the latest round of negotiations with ukraine. also ahead. calling about the attention of the ukrainian posts, it's been significantly degraded, which allows us to focus on the main objective deliberation of a rush, as military will now focus his efforts on the eastern front. according to defense minister, i assure you there was also warned european countries against the sending weapons to care russians at 4th, if they close to fully re taking the key dome by city of mario pole. as a humanitarian crisis continues to unfold a thousands of civilians still cool.