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i'm african retention. you're watching going underground, the team and i will be back soon with a brand new look, despite nato nation and you censorship. but until then we'll be showing some of your favorite shows a for season so far. as nations around the world continue to react and punish russia over its invasion of ukraine in violation of the un charter. but if the un secretary general was convinced that moscow had violated international law, why when joe biden arguably watered down the condemnation of russia for so called chapter 6, violation seeking peace, did not just china and the u. e, but the world so called biggest democracy, india failed to support washington. joining me now has ameritas professor of strategic studies at new delhi center policy research, rama celine. thank you so much for joining me for coming on. what have you made for

putins? violation of the you had charge and why have you said india will not be able to escape the largest or the larger strategic ramifications of the ukraine will? oh, 1st. what's happening? is it or to ship moment in international relations? this marks that went of a new or war who's ramifications with extent to every corner of the world. the russian invasion of ukraine under sanctions, centered reprisals of you as an exhaust eyes. our component, the national crisis. because the politics was already quite lucky in for the russian ambition. but things have become tragic and all the time since the nation began. and the cutting prices have the making of a have grown out and dangerous confrontation between russia and the west, particularly nato. and as we all know,

the crisis is already affecting the global economy with high energy prices and supply chain disruptions said to fuel inflation then slow and growth. and india cannot skip these medications. and of course the, the larger issue is that the rest is snapping. it's post war war ties with moscow, despite the risk of meeting strategic instability globally. in fact, the us live response appeals in that affecting regime change in moscow eventually. so this is a critical moment in the national nations, and i think they have been miscalculations both by president gotten and also by the western block. well, i think nato countries would surely say, miscalculations would be made in delhi. why, when albania, in the united states, had the chapter 7 motion water down to chapter 6,

did. did prime minister moody say he wouldn't supported? why did they not supported when there's a time of war? and certainly here the view is that any refusal to vote with washington and nato prolongs the misery of ordinary ukrainians. what would have any or cheap by condemning russia and damming a country for the sake of condemning it doesn't advance foreign policy interest endeavor and even the boss condemn united states for reading iraq or libya or any other country. condemnation is part of indian diplomacy. in any case, russia and the united states are both close friends of india to walk a diplomatic tightrope. that's to do

a balancing act which were becoming, making me difficult. given the fact that what we're seeing is that been of a nuclear war that's going to seriously compound in just strictly the challenges also affect its close defense stage of and moscow example, given the financial tensions at the west, us in both in russia. how will it be with the weapons it buys from russia? there's just one or many things. it is also investing in russian oil and gas sector implants, to invest in the russian, far east. all of these plans defy given these mounting sanctions 2nd, it's russia. so for india, this is, this crisis really is complicating, it's mostly, and also it's pursuit of long comes credited interest

complicating it or speeding up the adoption by india of alternative methods of financing. as opposed to say the brussels base swift system and others. now, india can use new methods of financing, often disgusted, bricks, meetings, chang, i cooperation, organization, meetings, non align movement meetings, so many trans national meetings that have occurred over the past. what 50 years? 70 here since world war 2. you actually right. and i think her by replacing the subsystem, organizing an energy pipeline and by cutting russia off from west to lead institutions. the u. s. is actually under my knee doors where he institutions because frankly,

will be forced to choose the alternatives or develop alternatives to russia in yup. example, we'll have to trade in room will em groupie as they did. great. so thanks. so any dire situation? well, we'll have to be met with innovative methods. so i don't expect the rushing the relationship with snap because of the financial sanctions require a lot of work, both and mutually, and must go to maintain it. relationship that has survived for so many decades. in fact, it has, it has solidified, despite the profound changes in the world, in the past half a century,

that relationship has been seen in new delhi as a relationship where they cried in test a trend. but at the same time, in i says, has also become increasingly important to india. so how does india balance 2 important relationships in a new cornwall? that's going to be a huge challenge for policy makers in new delhi. well, some would say it's very easy and your hesitancy is because as you know her, he well, because you see china is a big adversary, that it may necessitate closer ties between your foe. he across the valley between pakistan and india and china. and that's why you're hesitant about this closer relationship with russia without the u. s. and nato countries involved because it will necessitate closer relationships with china. that's your problem. and surely, anthony blink and the former west exec consultant who's now secretary of state that

the loan jake sullivan realized full well that there are dangers of moving russia closer to currencies other than the dollar. and his thought on par made the calculation bennett from the dollar. well you, you brought in china, which is so important. look at the international crisis that was created even before fortran launched the invasion of ukraine. yet how many people in the world know that for the past 22 months and yes, faced it. chinese aggression. johnny's aggression, involving up to 200000 jennings, close that invasion, aggression, whatever you call, it began in april 2020. when try these forces furtively encroach on several key border areas in the northern was the indian region of the

dock. since then military build ups have only escalated creating the danger up in full scale wall. well, we, we invite the chinese basset to the un united nations, but basically, what, so your point and the point of many in the leads in india is they don't want us to abandon its relationship with russia because they want russia alongside them in their attack on china, russia and india had fairly similar views on stability in asia or, or ratio. and that bilateral relationship has stood the test of time. chinese kelly, an important factor in this relationship, even in this present military crisis,

based with the russians have been. it's also helpful. especially in helping get to fortify it offenses. so that really underscores the importance of russia for india. i don't think you can afford to see that relationship degrade in any manner, but i wrote it clea, the pakistani prime minister iran guy was in moscow at the time that value we put in was clearly planning sending the troops into ukraine. brazil is not being that supportive of nato countries in washington bricks. never been stronger than that. now given that brazil india and india is perceived. emily nuclear fellow enemy of august sun, since they all seem to be against the nato and the u. s. line

india isn't the unique position of having to nuclear armed at groceries. china and pakistan that actually close alliance. so same strategic triangle in which india, china and pakistan. and given that stock reality. and given the fact that drake's increasingly has come under the chinese shadow, india has to be very cautious in relying on bricks as a institution. the bricks has value, but bricks is currently not a credible alternative to other international institutions, but very much investment rates. but so there are to exaggerate the bottom so ricks, the fact is that a country like india, given this security predicament,

has to deal with the realities that it faces. what, what is, what do you expect the u. s. and nato to do to india because of its lack of support, arguably for the civilians dying in the streets of ukraine. was american president spoken, even though word on the chinese potter information against india has any best and head of government support or india in the current military crisis that in that conference usually chinese aggression answer is no. so why should be supporting the western standards against russia? it doesn't have a dog to fight against nothing from taking a position that could undermine its relationship with moscow. in the same

time, india has done not c joe undercarriage. we bought relationship with with washington . and they are people in the state department to help set on set off the record to the media that they understand india's gamma and the dynamite as to why it abstain from the what the un security council. i don't, you know, i don't see how the universe, artists, and eyes are going to take revenge on india just because in the abs theme from, from a lot the un security council for has a barometer lading. i'll stop you there more from the national security specialist and ameritas professor of strategic studies at new daily's said of a policy research after this break or in need to come to russian

state. little never, i've side on the northland scheme div with within the 50000. okay, so mine is group i'm speaking with, we will van in the european union, the kremlin jeff machine. the state aren't russia today and split our tea. sputnik, even our video agency, roughly all band on youtube and pinterest and come with me. ah

ah, ah, a with ah ah, welcome back. i'm still here with professor brown delaney, international security specialist, and ameritas professor of strategic studies, a new daily center for policy research. so india and tax shine are of a perceived un violations un resolution violations,

but refuses to attack russia. after the secretary general of the united nations said it violated international law. well, and yeah, never attacked china over while any, any un resolutions criticized china for violating bilateral agreements, binding bilateral agreements, of course, then you violate, violated while it, bilateral agreement to you, while international law. because bilateral agreements are barton parcel of international law. yeah. not even un resolutions, and yet with russia, you won't vote with international law or against moscow. well, if you look at the history of this century alone, they have been so many multiple foreign military invasions of sovereign states in the century. along the year,

2000 began with the us invasion of afghanistan, then followed an invasion, which is monday by a un resolution. well, the us has become increasing marginalized in human stamp of approval or anything mean human kind of a pro can come even ran a country flow to international law. for example, the us invasion of iraq and occupational the country using the protects, that there were weapons of mass destruction in iraq had the human stamp of approval . but that'll make a legitimate international law s b, c. it is powerful against the policy and policy against the powerful that's for harsh reality might makes right is still

very much intact and it was century example. today the western block talks about upholding the rules based order what, what order is back. the fact is that those look at in order others make the routes for the world have been a trade or weapon ising energy weapon being served is certainly not uploading, enrolled space stronger. well, one can mention syria canister on iraq, livia and so on. but then the view of prime minister moody is 2 wrongs. make a right therefore, don't vote with the u. s. at the security council. no. as i mentioned, it never, never fits an adjustment on any countries, aggression against the country. it has never condemned any military and nation

story and condemns package. it condensed focused on the use of terrorism as an instrument of state policy against india. i guess i missed because india, the rectum, that's kind of the use of terrorism. but certainly, india has demonstrated a moral judgment on the military actions of any bar that's never been part of indian diplomacy. do you think the united states for saw what was going on as it pulls out of afghanistan after it's longest war and is defeat in afghanistan? that, that's why it was boring weapons in the ukraine ahead of what putins as was a provoke provocation. and what nato in the u. n says, was his illegal invasion from the gartner tons defeated humiliation. united

states was a watershed moment and it certainly but binding on the defensive. and he tried to divert attention. he made some important strategic miscalculations just the way. wouldn't have made some sort of different calculations. a 1st miscalculation on the part of binding was that he could use the threat of sanctions to deter russia from in meeting ukraine. the problem is that the us true will use of sanctions as a blanket instrument of sanctions by repeatedly slapping sanctions on russia for the past 8 years or so. so the object of preventing ratio from a meeting ukraine failed miserably. and miscalculation was not to take

warden's threat often an invasion serious me by giving him the security assurances they demanded security or trans the us. and they don't want to turn ukraine into a front line launched by the russia, by, by deploying offensive weapons on new created inside, while almost 3 months or so, who to talk to, to guarantee. but it was taken on repeatedly, and there was also a bottomless competition. my view on the, on, on the part of putting in international relations. you can buy mounting a credible liquid credit achieve an objective without the need to actually execute the correct. when you put in the launch maker military build up against ukraine,

we compare us to abandon its policy of native creek to russia. borders. he woke up the world, the dangers of natal expansionism, commentators, even in the us began asking whether expanding and needed to russia borders and thereby prompting russia to re militarize was an american interest. in fact, as you know, the military build up on nuclear waters kept the us on tinker ropes with vitamin, wanting for days on end. the nation was coming. it's sort of sustaining that threat . putting decided to execute the track even though controlling the outcome of the warm one second launch is literally impossible. so i think he could have achieved more sustaining. that's right. this is sort of actually launching the nation. obviously, moscow appears to relieve the their course of actions of the right ones and risking

all is the way forward in the united states thinks that the united states think that there must be, even if it were perhaps risks nuclear war. the ability for ukraine to join nato. that's what the european union also firmly believes. so, i mean, the point here is the rights of ukraine to be able to join nato at all costs. few believe you in nato believe that ukraine should be admitted to men. it's too intimately provided, highly corrupt, is functional state in the eyes of many in nato. and there was with chance of, of ukraine, emma being admitted to needle instead of instead of a 3 g rushes, security concerns. and the tim and thus concerns could have been addressed to

a what the war after all, russia is not america as a lane lowell challenger, the main lower challenger is china, which is seeking to supplant the u. s. as the global headphone as anxious as the u . s has already said, sorry to interrupt their, but obviously the largest are 850000 soldiers in the russian army, but european union nations, including germany ascending in masses of weapons now into ukraine. do you think they think in washington of nato headquarters in brussels at b, a u parliament in brussels, in strasburg, that ukraine can beat the red army as they pour in these weapons? if not, why would they pour in the weapons? the strategy is very clear that they persuade not only containment to a point or against russia. they're also trying to

engineer, understand, to point all against russia, just the way they in sneered russian in many poses and congress done in a quagmire in the 1980s. by launching their biggest covert operation in history. now, in addition to the high sanctions that have been post on russia, they are lieutenants, least seeking to and, and trap russia. similar military quagmire in ukraine by boring. huge will it for you to sources by arming the resistance, the insurgency, they want to bleed russia. that's the strategy, or whether they succeed not returning the strategy when it can. in fact vitamins asked congress for an additional $6400000000.00

per wide arms. and other military, it korean forces, whether they are on posters, the resistance forces in seconds, that's driving the amount of money that buying is willing to oriented no grade. those are certainly the figures being thrown around the l in capitol hill when it comes to the budget then so apart from all these countries in the global south using turning away from the dollar to get round the sanctions and so on. why do you think politicians in the russian duma wanted the boot in to support the recognition of don yet? skin the hands and pushed putin, whoever's, he wanted it as well to act in this way. if you believe it, sir, you appear to believe it's a catastrophic geopolitical mistake,

that alone it's illegality under international law. well, recognizing that tool trickery of republics could have been seen as bardo, mounting, credible threat that could have posed the un and nato who concede what russia was asking back to actually launch an invasion. was something completely different. the tragic and what i'll moment of to they could get worse without caution and prudence on both sides. but why with such a mistake? is this a low cost strategy? but it's not very clear for us what the military object, those are put in our, in relation to ukraine,

what he is seeking to achieve. because as you can see from the line to a tags, they want a 3 lines of attack that russia has mounted in ukraine. it's not taking jewel occupied the entire country. what are the military, our objectives of polluted is something difficult to guess. he's certainly not to endure annexed the whole of ukraine, and they said it dumps of a military operation so far. but my biggest concern is this. as a history of this alone illustrates, foreign military invasions have decent life sovereign states, and as there are serious lithia, kindness and damage made. such innovations have triggered an ending while and bloodshed, and russia invasion and the plan to arm ukrainians to bleed. russia threatened to turn your credit into assyria on libya. this will have major implications,

both for russian security, as, as well as europe and security. that's it for one of your favorite shows this season, the team and i will be back soon with a brand new look. but until then you can keep in touch my role of social media if it's available in your country. and remember, you can continue to watch all going underground episodes on odyssey and they'll come see very soon ah when i will show the same wrong. why don't i just don't need you to fill out the thing because the after an engagement equals the trail.