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tv   Cross Talk  RT  April 1, 2022 11:30pm-12:01am EDT

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seeing a game on table tv, a plethora of articles always in the, in the main broad sheets. but there seems to be preciously little interest and how to end the conflict. that doesn't mean to say that things aren't going on. there's a plan, there's, there's a of a format in bare room though. when sam ball, i'm covering it very weak watching it very, very carefully here. but it doesn't seem to get a whole lot of play. and all it takes is a secondary se, blank and say, well, we're not, we don't think the russians are serious. and then there's no discussion any further . how do you see this here? because there seems to be many elements in the media and in the political classes. in the west that actually want to see this war to continue go ahead nikolai. oh, well there are those who are you. it's in america's geo strategic interest to prolong this war to turn it into, ah, a russian, her 2nd organic dan or vietnam or something like that. all of these views over,
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look the devastation that's occurring in ukraine itself and the damage also that is being done to the russian economy and to the economies of europe or in general. and i think that there is indeed, probably some strategy involved. biden keeps alluding to it in confusing and mysterious ways about a new world order, or hopefully the parameters of this new world order will become clearer to us mere mortals soon. yeah, well, i think that the war all daughter is going to be some very thick lines. ok of separation. scott, how do you see this? i mean, you know something about the military. i'm not interested in who is winning and who's losing. i'm interested in seeing the conflict resolved with as who deaths as possible on both sides here. but i, it really does disturb me, but the kind of glee that you know, you throw in the graphics and that, you know, there's a counter offensive and all that,
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the way i love my sources tell me. and there's, there's actually very little resistance from the army, ukrainian army itself. it's these neo nazi battalions that are fighting to the death. go ahead, scott. i don't know. i mean, is clear to me that there's a significant, a military operation taking place in ukraine that involves heavy fighting on both sides. okay, so what i can say is this, the united states has said that there have been multiple efforts by senior military officials here in the united states to reach out and contact their counterparts in russia. but that the phones aren't being answered, which should tell you everything you need to know about the gravitas that should be attached to this ongoing western information warfare operation being waged by both western mainstream media and the united states and
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nato. ah, you know, propaganda is propaganda if it's targeted it right now it appears a western propaganda is targeted for it to 3 target, one being of the, the, the, the, the civilians here at home to generate outraged. because our outrage will then you'll of political resolve on the part of american politicians who will pressure their european counterparts to engage in very um, a stringent economic sanctions and a, and in the revitalization of nato. and then there's also the, the, the, the, a effort to bolster ukrainian spirits to let and believe them, maybe they're doing better than they can. the 3rd one of course, is to influence a russian domestic political opinion in an effort to create pressure from within russia. on the russian government to alter their behavior in ukraine. ah,
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the, the only one that counts as far as rushes concerned is the 3rd one. and one i, i don't believe it's, there is a massive a sky, russia. it's scott, it's just not working. all 3 of the points you mentioned are utter failures here. you know, gilbert, one of the things i find very curious in looking at these a negotiation of formats. it's all about up the future of ukraine's external security relations. what is absent is that the internal makeup of ukraine, and i think nobody really wants to go there. but typically in ukraine and the americans and the british and other might members of nato don't want to go there either. because what's happening, the more the these talk sir, are, are the clock is run out. the more and i'm just speaking more my it myself. i see a partition going on here. and if we don't get this conflict resolved sooner rather than later than it will be a de facto partition gilbert, your thoughts,
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i think it will be resolved later, rather than sooner. okay. later being in a time perspective of 2 or 3 weeks, the russians have achieved very important territorial janes in the territories, which they, where they concentrate their efforts and where they had the, i don't you ask militia, joined them from the north. and they came up from the south, they surrounded more evil. they took essentially the whole of the series of literal . that is, that has great strategic importance. great economic importance for russian, however, does for ends that will rain remain forever with russia. now they are turning around and addressing the issue, which with which they started the war, which is to secure the donuts and the guns could oboski as they were called republics, as their call today. and members, cotton, a constituent elements of the russian feder, as a surely will be in
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a matter of months. now what was missing here is to retort the le ganske republic. now a car has under its control, 93 percent of the territory that was once through the guns homeless. that is to say status before who the war began in 2014. unfortunately, don't ask, is our dinners in a different situation and don't ask the the powers to forty's control only 50 percent of the land that was once the old list of done in of doing it. and the, the obstacle, there are what, what prevented them from achieving similar success to guns. is that most of the $100000.00? 0, soldiers that ukraine concentrated on. good. yep. river, it initial plans to overrun these republics. and they would have done that, had the russians not intervened, that forces still there. and what we're about to see is the russians redirecting
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their firepower and coming up from the rear, striking at those $100000.00 ukrainian soldiers. so going over there, this is the, the 2nd stage. what we heard, we heard earlier that the 1st stage of the operation is over. let me go back to a nikolai, i mean, looking at, you know, the failure to or a president biden, to europe. i mean that that was a sight to see, but you know, a people say they were gaffs, but i think he told the truth, although every single time this is not even about ukraine, it's about regime change in russia. that's what i gleaned from what he had to say gilbert, i'm sorry, nick nick, like go ahead. well, he just laid bare his thinking and inversions lay. i mean, we've all followed biden's career for many years. he's actually co authored an article on, on relations with russia,
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russia's future. and it's all been very clear from the beginning that he is no friend of russia. and it's therefore not surprising that his professions of understanding and care for the russian people fall on on deaf ears. so not nothing surprising there. but nichol, i mean, if you have like victoria new and she was in the obama administration, i mean, she is really the godmother of the my don moving crimea, losing the don bass. and now she's back. ok. and i've always harvey that victoria new. and when she gets her clause into ukraine, it just gets smaller and smaller. not really about joe biden. it's about a mindset and the foreign policy elite nikolai. yes, and that mindset is not going away. and i think it's obviously one of the things that eventually drove put in to this
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kind of reaction which is not to justify the reaction i, i am one of those who continue to hope that there could have been some sort of negotiation. i think that prior to this invasion, russia actually had the diplomatic upper hand, by arguing, pointing to the fact that the western intelligence agencies were predicting invasion. but they're not had happened. now i think the shoes on the a little bit on the other foot, and it's making the case for russia being an aggressor, unfortunately, that much easier in the west. and that's another hurdle to over meeting. and it's a good point. but scott and scott, russia, it was always the aggressor, irrespective of what it does, a bit invaded or didn't invade it. i mean, i agree with nikolai on a rhetorical level, but i mean, this is a godsend for people like victoria new and because they have so much more work to
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do, go ahead be at one minute before we go to the right. go ahead scott. i don't think russia cares victoria, i don't think russia cure. i don't think they care about biden, or anybody. russia is going to do a rush is going to do to resolve its own security problems. and they're, they're in the ukraine right now doing just that. and i think ukraine will unfold on a time table. it's dictated by moscow, by brussels not by washington. d. c. now, by cnn. well, it's at, that's very interesting because when you are the way i've looked at the coverage of it, i mean, in the way the media leads and political leads. this is their story. it really has its very divorced from the events going on in the ground. and i, i tend to agree with scott. moscow is going to do what it's going to do when it's done and saying it's going to say it's done. on that point, gentlemen, we're going to go to a short break, and after that short break, we'll continue our discussion on the conflict in ukraine. stay with our team. ah,
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ah ah. ah lucy, no one? no, sir, no, no. hon. a job? no, no. what all more shrill than what did she end up?
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unit 731 was a unique organization in the history of the world. what they were trying to do was to simply do nothing short and build the most powerful and most deadly biological weapons program. that the world had ever known and real and you know, to production issue or sure. did enough. good candidates. good on you, son. new rochelle. he unmoved monica. she no longer thought this meant nguyen from all one of our new i'm, i got the much sale. i got ya. i got on monday. i wish to know about julie. whoa, whoa, knew he didn't or guzzle more or less than
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a jr. let's i had to put the discount in whether an all out buddy bill could you call us couch nice. oh boy. festival to go that route. oh, on this talk to my annuity. oh, i can send more. um shipment gates are not a lot that they give us a
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ah welcome at the cross walk where all things are considered on peter lavelle to remind you were discussing the conflict in ukraine. ah, let's go back to gilbert in brussels, gilbert. what kind of ukraine is good? he come out of this. um, you know, we had the, the, the coup in 2014 the crowd, crimea voted to leave. ah, don bass separated itself from kev. we're looking at be the military operation, alga rushes, military operation, now it will lose its access to the see most definitely, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. so what kind of ukraine is there going to be, is going to be a rum state, you know, with alisha ideology and all of that. i mean, is that something that you want, does anybody want that go ahead?
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gilbert ranch estate might be a misnomer because we're speaking about a republics. don't boston the territory to the south, but it's conquered in the last 4 weeks fighting the, getting the russians control over the whole hazel c. literally, that's maybe 15 percent of the territory crane and isn't a much greater percentage of the population before the war. so what we, what, which remains to be see is whether there will be a genuine partition between the eastern part of the but remains of ukraine, which has a fairly high percentage of had before this war. high percentage of russian speakers and peoples identified themselves as russian, as that's likely. and the western side of the upper which has a considerably higher percentage of people who consider themselves to be ukranian
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speakers. that remains a possibility, but i think it's unlikely now who will take control of that depends on the weeks ahead. what will be the results? the russians declare from the beginning, they wanted the notification and demilitarization. now that may be a nice objective negotiations, but i think it's a still more effective objective in action on the ground. the russians, the. busy today that they had destroyed 90 percent of more of the cranium, military production. they, if they succeed in smashing the $100000.00 ukranian army that is parked on the left bank on the west of the camper, then they will effectively boasted enough, so fi and demilitarized cream, whatever one wants to put in the pit down on a piece of paper the mitchell, your landscape will sign before he runs away or is hanged. okay, before he run. so yes, an interesting way of putting and nikolai who's,
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who's going to determine the outcome of this conflict here and what would be a fair outcome? ok. make yourself a neutral observer. what would be fair at the end of the day? i want to keep, keep our viewers in mind with, you know, thinking about the 8 years of war and the dawn best, which the west took no interest in whatsoever. you know, that is very, very important. the west doesn't recognize the cry and cry me a referendum, but the certainly the crimea ins do. so. we're at this stage here, what would be fair or is that impossible to answer? go ahead. i'm not sure that we can talk in terms of fairness. now they'll have to be determined over more than our lifetimes, unlink pending on interpretations. i'd like to say a few words, literally, a single words about the kind of ukraine that we're going to see at the, or after military. the military actions are over. we will no doubt
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have a more nationalistic ukraine, a weaker ukraine, a more illiberal ukraine. we're already seeing the manifestations of this in the rest of more or less, every opposition figure in ukraine. and of course, a more resentful ukraine for this generation. at least 1211. what, where is that? how the an will that be resent went against the west as well? yes, yes, yes. and, and the best last them i think that ah, thoughtful ukrainian elite can take out of this is to be more reliant on their own interests and think about their own interest. first as independent actors. well, the you saying the quiet part out loud, because scott at that was going to be my question to do. who is the decision maker here? because, you know, if is a lensky runs away, i mean, as he is he
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a free agent is, does he have a, does he, a person that can actually make a decision in your opinion, scott? well, the russian certainly hope is because all of these finality is that some people expect out of this conflict, for instance, ukrainian recognition. they cry me is russia ukrainian recognition that the former august's of logan's contin yeske are now independent of ukraine. perhaps expanded to include a mario, poland, a, and in other areas around the age of literal on. this can only happen in a way that in be accepted by the west. if zalinski signs on to it, you know, he has been elevated to a winston churchill like aerobic figure. and the west has articulated that it is up to him to dictate the terms of peace. so your zalinski of course has
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a lot of pressure. um he if he surrenders too fast, he might get hung by the right wing nationalists if he drags this thing on the west is going to be a little bit more reticent about providing the, you know, military support that simply gets blown up or captured by the russians, so there's a balancing act, but at the end of the day, zalinski is the only authority in ukraine. they can provide legitimacy to a russian victory, and there will be a russian victory. so it's in russia's best interests, i believe, to keep zalinski empowered to keep him viable and to keep him alive. so that of the surrender. you can be eventually negotiate. nikolai, you want to jump in there at a word, go ahead about russian victory. i agree every, every thing on the law that we can see on the map and in the cards, points to a russian victory. partly because they've hardly deployed
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a sufficient. i'm 9 among the fish forces, but i mean they're, they're, they have a fewer people there. and they have much greater a resources available to them to carry this thing out of to successful conclusion. but the point is, and this happened at the end of the last negotiations in, in his stumble. what if russia loses heart? what if the negotiating team actually is given orders to prepare, you know, some sort of agreement without fulfilling the military objectives and the political objectives stated, there could be a tremendous backlash as there was right after the end of the announcement, in a stumble, that some sort of major progress had been made. this was not met well in russian society. yeah. i actually, when we did
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a program on that and i but again i what i thought it focus on external matters that didn't talk about internal and that's what i've had with the real kind of odd because it was only half the story here. gilbert, let me kind of change gears here. here. what is the future of nato? because nato failed to keep the peace and elk for all the propaganda that comes out of that organization. there is not a whole lot of unity, and i think it's only one to get worse here. i think nato and it's, it's dr to dr. russia out of europe forever is actually come up empty handed gilbert. go ahead. the judgment on that really depends on whom you're talking to. if you're speaking to people in western europe, they're all saying right now there was never been so united and just look what we undertaken. if you're speaking to outside observers, like myself, and i think you, your other analysts in that community in a situation is very different. russia has taken a beating. i think that the nato was taken the beating,
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in terms of prestige in terms of it's my ability as a alliance that can pretend that can protect its members. the other states to consider themselves frontlines, things like the baltic, things like poland. i think they all love to take, take notice that united states is standing back and has offered only a mid to the material aid to ukraine. a lot of it, by the way, the equipment coming out of storage and not necessarily. ready uses but did i have states has in every way indicated it will not act to help you craned keep its, its borders, keep its sovereignty and so forth. even to the extent, as far as i understand, united states has specifically said he will not stand as a guarantor of ukrainian sovereignty. under the terms of any peace, the agreement may be concluded. if i may just switch back
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a moment to the question of mr. zelinsky, i'm not so sure it's so simple and not so sure that his maintaining his position is in russia's, russia's interests, and not so sure. the concluding apiece treaty is in russia's interests really makes no difference. it is forced, that speaks you. and i think any european power would like to go in again to ukraine, efforts over would be out of it's might. so yeah, cranes future, whether ratified by a piece tree not ratified by p street will be the same as regards to successor just against zelinski. he will be a very ugly personnel and the real ugliness of the kitchen regime will be clear and whoever succeed zelinski cholenski is an actor. zelinski has been said, all this lines by the best of ustr firms. as an ascii is a great information war deficit for russia. so if he's gone so much better, it's got the thing that i look at as i look at
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a lot of these negotiations of just is just being bluster because i tend to agree with what you said on this program. is that political facts on the ground will determine the outcome here and you know, you can have all the talk you want. but at the end of the day, what a destiny and say said a how many divisions as the pope have go ahead. scott. no that's, that's absolutely true. um, you know, we are prisoners to the information we have right now of the west is very effective . it a flooding of the battlefield, so to speak in this information war with data of that at projects one image. russia has not been so effective encountering that, and i am again, i think that's because russia simply doesn't care. russia isn't involved in information war rushes involved in real war. and, you know, hopefully for the sake of russia, of that war is progressing along the lines that are acceptable to the political
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leadership in the military and the military can accomplish this. i do agree that if russia stop short of fails to achieve effective denounce vacation, and i will tell you this. if the next leader of ukraine is a prisoner to the far right, it is as ugly as the gentleman speaks up in russia lost his war. because d nice vacation isn't just the physical destruction of a soft on bus and the other national battalions. de notification is the liquidation of the ideology of step arm band there that resides and la vote no less. russia takes care of that. they haven't de modified anything. so who will j campaigns going to be broader and so that many people think having to have to fight that ideology in this century as well, who would have thought as all the time? we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in kingston, delmar, and in brussels. and thanks to our viewers for watching us here, dorothy see you next time. remember crossed up rules
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ah ah ah. with yeah. ah, i'm with
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you. with that you didn't yet to get your part of all ok. see yeah, i was you oh government. i'd say we should impose punitive measures in such a way that only the other side is hurt and out there. now people do so, so to speak. do not have to make any sacrifices. only the other side has the major sector for us. and we have to push the other side into or short them that action through a kind of collective punishment. because that is what the sanctions on this large
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scale. and in that regard, sanctions a few more and out against human rights is your media reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? tice elation whole community. are you going the right way? where are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the
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shallows. ah, done yet public officials say mar, your call is now almost completely controlled by russian forces and the battle may soon be over. archie corresponded don location, meets with a tank crew falling an attack on the ukrainian neo nazi as of battalion with cold war. now, western media reports i q is russia adopting mar, you pull residents and sending them to labor camps in remote or russian regions that amid evacuation efforts, as more people flee to the east, we asked to some refugees what they think of the claims like that it will.

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