in the region history actually, so this is something that will change geostrategic dynamics for the western allies . and this is, i think this is what's playing out at a strategic level because they're trying to prevent that kind of lose a lions from forming because then they won't be able to exert their influence when the source of liberty they are able to do at the moment yeah, faster. maybe just to recap. i guess we have been talking on a lot of different topics over the last few minutes. you think that term or we're seeing the worst is over right now in pakistan, or do you see difficult days ahead from ron count? this has been a very peaceful, political process in boxes. as a box tony over a very confident and very proud that you know, going across bipartisan lines, across party lines in bargain on there's been no political violence of any kind. nobody has di and nobody's been hurt. there's been no violent protest so far and it did the transition into a new election has been very peaceful, which is again, such a very, very mature precedent for box on politics as

a state. so i think overall the part 20 state has one from this process and a strong message has been sent to, to the western countries and to potential l as in box on the box on this billing to look forward to the future. thank you very interesting analysis. thank you for coming on the program this sunday and explaining unexplored or out with a show. he'd rather independent analysts uncommented or an international security of fors in islamabad. ah, no hunger eons are voting today in parliamentary elections with the e, you keeping a kenai home the results on what it could mean for the block. with more on that, here's our teeth. maria finished parliamentary elections. usually a battle between parties or candidates, but with the upcoming vote in hungary, things are not that simple. the choice is for the country's future and its geopolitical self identification. is it with nato and the e u,

or is it looking eastwards? and yes, it's also all about ukraine. and while hungry is yet to make his choice, some seem to be willing to have a hand on it. the situation is clear, there is ongoing coordination between the hungary left and the ukrainians. if the hungarian left were to take over the government, they would immediately begin arms shipments and they would immediately vote in favor of sanctions on oil and gas shipments. all those accused denied the claim, but it turns just how heated things ahead of the vote are and how the ukraine question overshadows at all. so who is on hungary? his candidate list. the front runner lead in by a small margin is sitting president, victor oren, leader of the ruling party that has been in power for 12 years dubbed an autocrat and the 21st century dictator by to west orange has long been a thorn in the use side had to these his conservative pro family anti eligibility and anti migrant values. but what's even more crucial ukraine or runs neutral line

was seen by some as coziness with putting. although he joined e u sanctions. he refused to ban rush and gas emperors or send arms to key f. a. do our civil, do you hazard a whether to impose sanctions or not? do you hazarded whether to work weapons through or not? do you hazarded whether to trade with rush or not? there is no time to hesitate. it's time to decide already. the war of war has now gone further. will ukraine's deputy prime minister suggesting that budapest itself, once a chunk of ukraine and territory? hungary does not support the sanctions. they don't provide weapons. they don't allow transit of weapons supplies from other countries. they say no to practically every. before long budapest official rhetoric will be openly pro russian. what is this all about? do they want some cheap russian gas? or maybe they want our docket better region. but nothing seemed to scare open. he remained firm, we're giving the ukrainians everything. we can perhaps even beyond our capacity.

but we will not comply with any demands of theirs which would destroy our national community, either in a biological sense, with our sons dying in someone else's war or with the ruination of hungary economy . faith in over a the group of fixed opposition parties and the candidate whose while to clear the wrong belong to the west, belongs to be the b u. but over and office to choose not side, not groups, but between war and peace. and his message seems to be resonating with voters according to polls. the war has cast a shadow over the whole hungarian election campaign. the question of peace and security is now also part of what's at stake in the election. and our message is clear only the fidel party can create peace in hungary, only we can guarantee the security of the hungarian people splitting sharply from nato allies and not waving your quoting flagging solidarity might cost other european leaders in election, but it seems not organ on the opposite,

his policy of hungary 1st could take him to victory, which might make europe even more nervous and more divided than now. this is a referendum of decision whether direction, whether the direction of hungry will go east works or eastward, and european or just european americans is hungry changes the government. europe will enter. busy close the door east works and will be isolated and. busy will suffer an economic downturn which will eventually break up into europe if barbara and he in place. we still have a door open to east to the east. and europe will have a slight chance to re open the relationships to watch russia, china, and all the other country peaks works. so this is, i think,

events even essential for euro that often would stay in power. right. let's return to a story we spoke about earlier. this our video has emerged on a ukrainian military commanders telegram page claiming to show an officer, apparently permitting the shooting of non soldiers if they can't be identified as ukrainian. well let's welcome live onto the pro and i michael maloof, a former senior security policy analyst in the office of the us defense secretary michael, always good to have your company. thanks for taking the time today. maybe 1st we can start with the video itself. it was on the ukrainian commanders page. now, what's your thoughts? not? is that cur, listening over at what, phil and how it's made public or

a deliberate. i designed to get a response here, particularly in the west. well, it certainly has created a response on the west. if you're speaking about boca, the entire western press is filled with combination of russia, making the allegation that it, that russian troops were responsible for the mass slaughter there. i think it's my, my, i'm, i'm, i'm withholding any kind of judgment because i've seen this too many times where you have these false flags and you have act, you'd have elements within, even within the ukranian military, that it's to their interest to create these false flags and as a consequence, to try to lay blame in this case, it would be on russia. i think there has to be an investigation by the u. n. a,

an independent body. because when you're looking at mass grave of $300.00 people, that it's almost like a server needs a episode and which itself had received worldwide investigations. so i expect nothing less to occur in this case. well i, it's an absolutely huge claim as you, as you say. and as you go through there and from the video, michael, of course, we have to stress that it's on verified. we don't know whether it's put together from, from, from various parts. and then put forward then mid public. we don't know any of this, but from we problem. yeah. from what we can see, what does the video prove or demonstrate if anything? well, it just demonstrates from what i could gather from that snippet is, is,

is basically the ukrainians trying to, trying to make it look like the russians were responsible for something. very, very tragic. and i think that again, this is only a snippet in time. we don't know, timeframes, we don't know what, what occurred beforehand we and that's, that's all the more reason why there needs to be this, this impartial over over of oversight, an investigation into what did occur and to have i believe that the allegation in the film was over ukrainian commander saying to shoot non ukrainians. i think that that in itself should be considered a war crime, especially if it's against a foreign troops because they are covered by certain international

conventions against such acts as the last go in or is going on between both sides here it's you cannot, i can see why the western press is prone to cast aspersions on on russia because that's, that's their mantra. that is there. that is their propaganda. and particularly with, since this is a manufactured war anyway, in my view by the, by the administration. i and ukraine was just upon in, in washington's greater picture of, and of, of a world order that they quickly seen that they're losing their, their grip on. and just as you had with your interview, just before me about the pakistani that is the trend that's occurring there is a alternative world order that is coming along and,

and ukraine is just a cog in the greater reset that is occurring here today. and this war actually said, fact the global in their, in their quest to, to try to create a western dominated world order and, and then use that, that dominance as an economic weapon against any countries. and that's what we've seen. and this is so something had to give the fact that nato pushed trips all the way to the nato troops, all the way to, to the russian federation. they were warned repeatedly, over the years and years. this was this, this incident was 32 years in the making franklin, and now we're seeing the results. i'd like just to touch a little bit more later on that the war crimes probe that you say should be done

and whether you believe something that would be done and but, but i just want to talk 1st about the video in boucher again, michael, because russia dismisses it yet another provocation, the, the photographs, the video published by kids and the rest of the video is interesting as well because it allegedly shows what the ukrainian commander caused russian atrocities. not bearing in mind that what you've just said, there's $300.00 plus across to these. yet the evidence is very sketchy to say the least show that the footage also be dismissed and the entire video just seen in one viewpoint as not being entirely realistic at all. well, it's probably going to be offered. it depends on how it was documented. it's again, we don't know when it was taken where it was taken,

what timeframe and this, this is something that we that that would be subject to investigation. i'm sure that because it has such prominence. the west will certainly want it brought in as quote, evidence and quote. but again, this is just a snippets, and i think we need a total picture. we need to have international investigators go in from all sides and that's why the un needs to take, take hold of this and, and consider it. and i know, and in past cases where there were disputes for to russia and serial over chemical attacks. russia actually asked the us to undertake an investigation and they refused. and then there were some in indirect and unofficial reports that did come out that actually verified russia's position,

that they were not, that it did not use chemical weapons. so in syria, so it's again though there's the politics also of this episode, and there's going to be the politics in the u. n. and it will depend upon the strength of the voices that the demand justice on this. and i am afraid that this, this episode will be left to, to everyone's viewpoint, dependent upon what side they take on this. but that isn't it. that's very hard to see them that you would think that people who, who, who stress the justice is the, is the keystone on the, on our foundation that we need the truth. we need to find out exactly what happened that they would be jumping up the bit in order for, for a detailed probe, by whoever to do this and get to the absolute truth of who may have killed 300

civilians. which is what key of is alleging right now with that in mind. mike, why would that not happen? surely, you have to put politics allegiances to one side and say, we need to get to the truth here robot. the reality is those, that politics will not be satisfied. that will determine the course of events here and it depends upon who, who goes. and now, if, if russia is, is, feels very strongly that it was not involved. and they ought to initiate a request for such an investigation by the un and, and, and, and we'll see where, where things go. and if the you, when in fact takes up that, that offer, that, that request rather. and i think that this is it, it's a terrible thing that happened, but it's going to be one of many atrocities that occur in a war environment. and that's what we're dealing with here and who's. and i think

that once again, i said earlier, i'm very concerned that this was a black fought like good. it could be a black flag operation by the ukrainians because they as of battalion and that crowd are known for, for this kind of a set up. and that cannot be dismissed. and this is something that needs to be looked at very, very carefully and thoroughly by an independent body and the us, the closest thing we've got. but if they're politicking because of their influences and who pays. busy budgets, rules the day, which is generally from the west. and right now, moscow is portrayed in the world as, as the bad guy, and this, at least in the western world, then that then we can begin to get a notion of what, what direction you anyway to go in this. and this would be the unfortunate thing,

and that's what the us was established to do, was to try and get to the bottom of these kinds of things. and even to attempt to avoid these kinds of disputes in the 1st place. you should have been much more prominent and forceful in back in the agreements that were made years ago about in defense ability of not strengthening one side against the other at the expense of the other. in this case, the west, strengthening the west at the expense of the east and the un failed failed brit. michael, this is we do appreciate your time on this subject because we think it's a huge issue that we think when you're, when you're claiming that 300 civilians were, were killed by whoever, in this case, key of a sing, it was russian forces. we need to give some time to it and on pick out what truth we can from it. and with that in mind, we've got a quote from the russian defense ministry. and just to get your thoughts on it,

they say quote, not a single local resident suffered from any violent actions while this settlement and talking about the city in the full loose and footage that our viewers are looking at was under the control of the russian armed forces while what was happening on the claims, the atrocity only appeared after the russian troops left the city and the ukrainian army arrived. now, if that's, that's the phone to be true, then that puts this in a whole different light. well, that's what needs to be looked at. i mean, if this is coming from the defense minister itself, i think that that is, that's gotta be taken seriously. and the allegation needs to be taken seriously. clearly there are over 3300 people dead from the mass graves. somebody did it. and, and this is the kind of thing that will need to be looked at very, very carefully by that international body of it,

if it can be done. and that's what if, if the ministry of defense bills has made the statement feels that strongly about their position. the then i think the russian government needs to go to the us and call for an investigation international investigation of all sides. not just western western countries where once someone out of out of out of a nato country to be investigating, it's got to be from neutral countries. and i think that this is the only way you get to the bottom of something like this. because both sides are, are alleged to have committed something fear that if it is an atrocity and, and it needs to be looked at through a way from, from a kenai, an independent look once for all and how you help hold anybody accountable.

it's going to be if they can, it's going to be difficult because again, i think the polyps politics will enter into this and even put pressure on those who investigate if they can be found on something. i think it's important for viewers to, to know as well. you touched upon it's michael at the ministry defense in russia has said repeatedly over the last number of weeks and that when they target areas they do in the thought that there are going to be civilians. so they do it with utmost care because there have been cases before of right wing far right. even neo nazi battalions directly linked to the military, which is another issue in itself. that is one of the only countries in the world where a neo nazi battalion is directly linked to other countries have problems with nazis, of course. but this is linked to the actual key of government. that you have a situation where they are using children. schools, hospitals as human shields,

and if they're firing from those regions, you have to do so with utmost care. and russia says repeatedly, we have done not but yet. the only story that comes out in the west is that a kindergarten was blowing up. now rush will say we, we got the people out of that region and yet you've still got nazis firing from us . we have to stop them. that is something that's not been spoken about at all. the, the problem before with neo nazis was spoken about in the west. that seems to have been forgotten about by many western countries. well, it's not mentioned at all. it's not mentioned at all here. the only time i've heard it right most recently was an interview by on fox news when with the president of ukraine, when he was directly asked about the as off but be have a neo nazi background and he blew it off they, they,

the president of ukraine blue office said you are what they are, michael. yeah, the so yeah, and he, it in fact confirm that they were incorporated into the ukranian armed forces. and that's just one of about, about a half a dozen mill militias that are tied in now to the ukranian military and in the west, just dismisses you don't hear them talked about on cnn or some of the other major western the outlets. and it's only coming from a, from, from your, your end and, and it's so consequently people are not getting a fair and balanced perspectives on this, on this war and, and certainly are dismiss it. and no, not actually, they know nothing about the as a, a battalion or the impact that nazis and the hist,

historic influence and an impact that, that not, not see that the nazis of had on russia during the soviet times. and ukraine's participation and involvement with them during world war 2. and the fact to that other germany, the as off battalion has it's, it's main network and, and it in, into the united states, they actually recruit americans to join their, their, their, their militias, as part of the ukranian armed forces. they're in effect, the mercenaries. so they hired mercenaries in effect to join them. and as a consequence, there they control the military, they control the, the police, they control. and they basically would like to run things themselves in div if they could. and i and i think it's not beyond them to instigate and draw. busy

russia into a, into a conflict in order to justify the a war. and they certainly, and when you have the likes of victoria newland and, and the neo conservatives in this country who are, who have been pressing this and were involved in the original qu at back in 2014. you cannot help but feel that and see, and then there's evidence that, that, that they alterra motors that one and again, that ukraine is just a, there's just one element of a larger picture that they're trying to do in terms of containment of russia itself . and russia has basically said and mr. prove that they, they, it's a red line that they can't go any further anywhere else and that they're going to stand, they're going to stand the ground and they have michael at thank you so much for

flashing. it's all those issues with us today. we so appreciate your time doing all that with us. we've been speaking to mike on the lou former senior security policy analyst in the office of the u. s. the fence sector. many thanks today. thank you. yeah. now these where we leave the news, our for now, i'll be back on a couple of minutes at the top of the are with all the me and developments on a busy sunday, including of course and more reaction to that video. we've just been speaking about life from moscow. this is art international. lou. ah, ah

ah ah . ah. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have. it's crazy even

foundation, let it be in arms. race is on offense. very dramatic development only personally and getting to resist. i don't see how that strategy will be successful, very critical of time. time to sit down and talk in only one main thing is important for naziism, internationally speaking, that is, that nations thoughts are allowed to do anything, all the mazda races, and then you have the mind. an since, while the slave americans, proc obama and others have had a concept of american exceptionalism, international law exist as long as it serves the american interest. if it doesn't, it doesn't exist by turning those russians into this dangerous bogeyman there wants to take over the world. that was a conscious strategy. so some golf out of it on your own,

i not leashed off to observe on and tablet block. nato said, it's hours, we move east. the reason us had gemini is so dangerous, is it the lie? the sovereignty of all the countries, the exceptionalism that america uses and its international war planning is one of the greatest threats to the populations of different nations. if nato, what is founded shareholders in the united states and elsewhere in large arms, companies would lose millions and millions, or is business and businesses good. and that is the reality of what we're facing, which is fashion and so called enhanced interrogation techniques used by the u. s. officials were basically designed as techniques to break down the human mind. if you

force a human being to stay in a certain position doesn't take very long to the pain involved to become absolutely excruciating. but nobody clean things around you. you are doing it to yourself. we started adopting those techniques when i was stationed in mosul among them worse press positions, sleep deprivation. inducing hypothermia. there's already beginning to be evidence that these old techniques are now being used immigrant and children, whatever you do or more he comes home. nobody has been held accountable for the torture that happened in the past. the moral authority that made america world leader sacrifice for the shimmer of effective interrogation. with

with headline stories this hour, the russian defense ministry slums as a troll vacation, disturbing thought aged from the ukrainian town of butcher in the key of region, stating that no civilians were killed by russian troops. that's after ukrainian officials released pictures of hundreds of mass graves in the town, allegedly filmed after russian forces at last. also had a soft battalion that is said to be nazi affiliated organization, operating as a militia in your country. you know, they are what they are. that's the answer from the ukranian president when queens about the alleged atrocities of the neo nazi a self battalion which loved america. let's be admitted in this same interview fights as part of the country's.