interested in is the pressure that india might be facing from the west for not joining the anti russian sanctions drive. is that significant? but of course you've seen the foreign secretary of the you had the national security advisors off some european countries. you have the deputy national security advisor of usa. you had meetings with their prime minister of japan and australia. all these are countries who are in the european then rest and group. there certainly want us to change opposition, but i think we have made it quite clear that opposition is an independent one based on off the assumption of our national interests. and this is always been the case. and you know, when decades ago we were on the line, we were told that non alignment is a more online mental, strategically economy is what we are looking for. we will do what we think is

a non national interest. and i think that india is a big and significant enough country. we have to take its own decisions. that's the way i think it a also for this position which the indian government raj, even she korea and the former secretary of indian ministry of in external affairs. appreciate your thoughts are international. thank you. thank you. right. that does it for me. stay with us throughout the day is we have the continuing coverage of the war in ukraine. this is our international ah ah,

ah, ah. hello and welcome to crossed out. were all things considered? i'm peter level. it will be long debated whether the war in ukraine could have been avoided. what is not really open to debate is how centers of power have been shifting to the east, the rise of asia as it were, the war in ukraine. his only accelerated that trend. ah, discuss these issues and more. i'm joined by my guess, george samuel lee in budapest. he's a pod, castor at the gaggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow we have to meet re

bobbitt. she's a political analyst and editor, it was me, internet media, project, journaling, crosstalk roles. and i think that means you can jump in in time you want and i would appreciate it. ok, let's go to budapest 1st in, as i said in my introduction, georgia meeting, but will be origins of the conflict in ukraine. the current one will be debated for a long time. but there's one thing that seems quite obvious to me that people don't really want to talk about, is that it's not a catalyst for a major shift paradigm shift in the world. but it's accelerating. and this is something that we've seen before. and because we have diem, bob, it's on the program. i'd like to talk about the limits of neo liberal ideology because i think this is one of the things is conflict tells us so much about. go ahead, george. yeah, no, you are absolutely right. the thing of it is that the historians would indeed debate whether a war could have been avoided. there were many signals starting from the

fall of 2021. that a serious crisis was impending. the tone of the kremlin had changed substantially. there was a real concern about nato policy, especially us policy in the ukraine. and despite all the warnings that were coming from moscow, the united states made their just chose to ignore them and tried to follow russia of with a lot of going to meet meaningless promise. this setting that's, that's entirely true. and then to the shock of the western leaders and the, the thing with the leaders was saying, oh russia, russia has failed in the shock of these leaders. the what they were planning on, which was the sanctions regime. the mother of all sanctions are going to bring the russia to it's going to bring the coach in regime our power that, that has fail. they've failed to get the rest of the world on board with their

sanctions regime, with their condemnations of russia and all that. and suddenly, showing us is that western countries isolated, most of the rest of the world simply doesn't take the ukraine crisis, the way the western powers. i don't think it's also russia's fault and above all, they don't think that it's in their interest to sabotage the russian economy, but sabotaged the world economy. so suddenly that, you know, the nato power bus, you know, north america and japan, australia, they are the ones that are isolated and russia is in the international mainstream. d, my, the thing is that's very interesting when all this is read because of this idea, logical disposition, the west has their blinded where they can't see reality in front of their face because what informs them is their id. ology is yorba saying, you know,

of course the world is going to condemn russia because we condemned them. that's. that's a false logic. go ahead demon. well, again, where we are and the reason we said that oh, key growers local people. and that's why because you knew that you need to be but you show me that so you know, we are to go, you know what you want

something we should do. you know, we should point, you know, very bad. you know, the last game, these communicate and all the all the communication. right? yeah. also hubris. ok, i mean, you brought up sergeant schultz, the chancellor of germany. let me go to george right now. isn't it? with the situation that demon bring him in reverse. i mean, couldn't have nato member saying, no, you will never be in nato. this is a close topic. we are an important country in nature. it's done, it's over. let's move on. but sergeant schultz didn't have the grab a task to do that, george?

no, that's absolutely right, because if we remember the name, so article 10 that nato loves to invoke about other countries joining nato. it's only on the condition that nato, we so invites in the country to join an invites on the basis of unanimity and all the members of major would have to agree to invite ukraine to join. so it was, your grain has been wrong by watching them since at least 2014. it would have been the easiest thing in the world. joe zelinski. no, it's not going to happen. let's put this on the back burner for at least 25 years. i have a moratorium for 25 years, so then you would have gone along with, i mean, you wouldn't have any choice but not that pressure on the fact that the response of the western powers was when russia submitted those ultimatums in december 17. well,

hey, we're just rejecting it, you know, who's russian to tell us what to do. you know, we decide security follows it. it was the western powers that treated these demands with arrogance, and refused even to understand how seriously the russians are taking it over and over again. we said we want legal guarantees. we don't want empty promises. legal guarantees. so it's not only immediate the agenda and they go should just an extent not on the media agenda. so, you know, it was, it was a major power brokers crisis about the over the last couple of days come the kremlin spokesperson. dimitri pisca, he said that europe needs to sober up from the american bourbon. ok, which i think i've never heard of, put it that way, but i kind of like it. and again, talking about isolation, the way we that the top of the program here is that when you, europe, it wants russian to shaken its boots. but in fact, in fact,

europe is found itself with its pants down because the, the sanctions regime that was supposed to cripple and overthrow the, the current political arrangement in russia has utterly failed. i would say just reversed, strengthened it. and, and right in the children, russia has friends around the world because you know why? because they have geopolitical interest and they're not blinded by ideology. go ahead. yeah. show that the mom is doing. they don't know what to go. well, you know, we are the war i've been away. don't see people were killed minor more so people

policemen were even there. so when you decide control whether, you know, we know it was a year and and the way they come really is probably, i mean don't you remember why, why was it the way older more so you need to work. yeah. you

know, and you are absolutely right. there will be cheap for models for these people. and when they tried to be re received the right word. i mean, they said we made a mistake. what we need to do, you really do a walk around, you know, support. now you are also deal to all of the you know, there were very mature jensen that tell us so much, you know, they were surprised you're, oh, how could this happen?

you know, i mean, that means that they're, they're talking to themselves, they're in their own group thing. you know, they find the terms and conditions of what can happen and not have. they truly believe that they're mand rims of the universe. and now they're beginning to realize, oh, where energy dependent on russia, what are we going to do? i mean, but they're, they get so ahead of their feed. they don't think about the implications of their own actions. george. yeah, that's right. that's right. but of course, was that cheap, but a definite pattern in all of western foreign policy is that off the everything goes south. it's like, well, we didn't really expect that to happen. then maybe it was a mistake to press for a major membership where you brain, maybe it was a mistake to dismiss russians concerns in such a peremptory, better spent the same thing. some of the vietnam had the same things off the iraq.

same things are not having maybe we shouldn't have an issue that we made them to. so yeah, was happens. but the extraordinary thing is that economics and finance is something that you would expect western leaders on the spam list. well, this is the capital one thing they know it's, you know, or we can all makes less and yet give a low. we didn't realize that russia is a lot less dependent on international trade than we. and so therefore, when we impose sanctions, we are going to be heard more than russia as waiting. why didn't you study history didn't just study that was almost entirely old package. and the sanctions were so obvious, existence. and if you, if you, if you start raising and, and stealing assets, well maybe they'll do a job. oh, my goodness, that's not what big wow, they're going to do to us what we do to them. it's extraordinary there with their narrow mindedness about 10 seconds more going finish upwards. right. even now they

have to say, well, you keep sending us the oil and the gas a don't you dare expect any payment from it? give it to us immediately, but i'm going, i'm going to pay you any based. i'd hold out, but we're going to get gentlemen, we're going to go to what you're breaking up about your break. we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. ah ah. oh is your media a reflection of reality in the world transformed what will make you feel safer?

isolation or community? ah, you going the right way? or are you being that some with what is true? what is great? in the world corrupted, you need to descend ah, to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah ah, welcome back to crafts not we're all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real issues. ah okay, let's go back to a demo here in moscow. i think one of the most interesting things with this, a war of, by sanctions against russia. and this is

a war. ok. and i think people have to understand that that all means except for direct military confrontation, which is always in the cards. when we have this kind of scrum, a conflict is a dollar. and it's, it's really quite amazing. it's kind of like a self goal of the uses and abuses of the dollar, because the petro dollar is very much in question. we have more and more countries that are getting out of the dollar because, well, they've been treasury department can freeze our assets. ok. and in, in the u. k, it's, you know, all the garage sheet, you know, when you get this, all gar can take this yard and without a due process whatsoever. i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. there's been, there's a very large literature about, you know, the fate of the dollar and how it will one day, like every other currency be replaced. but this is accelerated. i mean by this very cavalier attitude about how you can use a financial system to your political game when it's supposed to be used as a, a,

a process which everyone has competence in the currency. they're taking that competence away from the currency as we speak. go ahead. the ma, well, i think are all very and i know a lot but also to have all rational needs remove all services to be probably all need to be changed. a rush. she said, what they didn't say was german mom just wanted to see when the finances are when you won't

even do your own from or you know, people read all the people in the wall. you know, if you were going to new york, when you read, they also you get it in your, in the knowledge. and i think the reason why russia actually require they will need your there are the rules how to buy it. why sending for her to get it and then why

do you watch too much away in the rooms. so that way you won't be charged one of the outcomes of this in you and i predicted it here, this program and our podcast. the gaggle is that europe is actually does kneecamp itself. i mean, because if the russians want to deal with the europeans, they just call washington or has, you know, to an intermediary go to washington because there's, there's no interlocutor in europe left. none of these people are serious, they're not certainly not decision makers and, and europe is, it's diminished itself completely. and whatever works comes because, you know,

particularly at the end of last year, up into the military operation in ukraine. there was just gobbledygook. i mean, they didn't want, they, they didn't say anything serious. they didn't quite serious characters. i would even say bad faith characters. and now this is the dilemma they have. i mean, even they have something interesting to say. mean, why should you believe him? now go ahead george, though, exactly, and what has happened is what always happens, which is the united states, instigates a crisis, but somebody else has to pick up the tab at somebody else's always euro. so, you know, they, they applied all russia, particularly against germany, couple selves all from russia in energy space. well, by liquefied natural gas from us, it's going to be much more expensive and you don't really have the results for it, but invest in the resources to develop liquefied natural gas. very nice for the

united states. while the united states just meaningless is that go with cutting ourselves off from russian oil, which doesn't matter much in the american. and then the same thing is happening with this refugee flow. you know, the, the refugees of you're boring out of your brain. well, we're going to pay for all this doesn't we don't level all 56 millions of people. and where are they heading to do on germany or german is going to have to accommodate them, provide them with work permit or, you know, with housing benefits, welfare benefits. everything on top of that, germany is also committed itself to increasing its military expenditure at the request of the united states. where are they going to buy their weapons? george, we're going to buy them from the united united states. so that's why the russian say, well, you know, obviously europe isn't able to look after its own interest and why should we talk to the europeans, will go directly to the bus,

which is the united states. and we have seen this time, and again the united states, instigates this and who picks up the, you know, it's a junior european bombers deem it has been so much talk over the last few years about russia's embrace of china or the russia, chinese and brave. and people on the west of all, we've been very concerned about growing, concerned about it, but they, they're the ones that have actually made it possible when you know, you know, 20 years ago, thinking of a strategic relation between russia and china was not bill people said it now it's the fact again the 3 or one of my been told the chinese baby right about

you know, do they probably leave it in genocide . oh no. oh the further and they they do not serve the council. they will be in the you all and he in this way the child and he may or may be wrong only when he reached the age of

numa diva. if i could use majority in the us. and instigates a crisis in ukraine to into port regime change in russia, and then they go to the east and say you get the rest of about a problem that we created. and you, greg, i think the chinese think, you know, you, people are lunatics. okay. and you know, you know, it may be maybe gothright, you know, maybe stay off the bourbon. ok, because they look quite seriously outside, outside the west road. this looks like a form of lunacy here at georgia. i want to come in something on with you and i have talked about for media coverages of this, particularly in the us. i've been to notify unbox news prime time a week ago it was all ukraine. now it's references made because of energy prices and demand and, and what's going on with the dollar haven't, i guess,

you know, they're really beginning to realize that the american public is not concerned about a problem that far away, particularly when there. so there was so much oxygen in you propane and now that story is being whitewashed. it's very difficult. it's awkward here, but the beginning to realize that this isn't a need to issue. it's not a citizen, me issue dark. it's a very, very interesting because the, initially, i think fox news wanted to play in the way that i've always laid the cold war. horrible. e will russia horrible evils? soviet union breast of course of style and versus the freedom loving peoples of the world. and they realize the audience that go forward is just simply wasn't buying it. i mean, the 1st place americans have very serious economic problems of their own growing inflation out of control, border crime. and so i'm, but above all, i think there's

a, there's a feeling among americans that this was the war instigated by the biking group. i mean that the, you know, as i mean the some feeling that may not follow things as closely as we do, whether the feeling that that buys and the biting family, the obama by administration, all these characters, they have their hands up to their elbows in the ukraine and they're forcing americans and the rest of the world to pay for their own hubris and their corruption. the corruption started in 2014. so, you know, and i think that that's the view of the audience. and that's why these, the initial fox response has been thrown down, as i know, let's talk about energy independence. you know, so that way, we're not going to be dependent on russia yet. what you would have about energy independence. i think it's a response to the core audience edema. we have about a minute left them a very it's not very often the russians get to speak about what they think about

their country and what's going on in ukraine. would you explain maybe what to our audience, how people are in russia? are thinking about this conflict in ukraine. go ahead about 45 seconds. you know where the, where a small or the where we know of the level where, you know, it was a yeah. i mean, if you've been watching this program, particularly since the last quarter of last year, which both of you are on very, very often we talked about the inevitability of a conflict. when the, the west was completely ignoring other people's interest only their own interest. and they were ideological, and as all the time we have, i want to think,

my guess in budapest and here in moscow when i think our be worse for watching us here. are you seeing next time remember? ah, ah, look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings except where such order that conflict with the 1st law show your identification. we should be very careful about our personal intelligence at that point, obviously is to place trust, rather than share a job with artificial intelligence. real summoning with a robot most protective own existence with

with russia has called a un security council meeting following what moscow calls a provocation by ukrainian radicals in the town of boucher and your kid. that's after ukraine released images of bodies in the streets, blaming russian forces for the killing. the russian investigative, the committee has opened the criminal investigation into calls by the mayor of the ukrainian city of jeannette. but for the killing of russians, quote, all over the world and in the largest quantities possible in fighting continues in the done. yet republics, the city of multiple as russian forces move to capture the cities metallurgical plant, allegedly the last stronghold of the as of battalion in the area are correspondent covered the story from the ground. one of the tallest buildings in the city.