ah ah ah, ah ah, ah, hello and welcome to crossed out. were all things considered? i'm peter level. it will be long debated whether the war in ukraine could have been avoided. what is not really open to debate is how centers of power have been shifting to the east, the rise of asia as it were, the war in ukraine. his only accelerated that trend ah,

discussed these issues and more, i'm joined by my guess, george samuel lee in budapest. he's a pod, castor at the goggle, which can be found on youtube and locals. and here in moscow we have to meet re bobbitt. she's a political analyst and editor, it was me, internet media, project, journaling, cross top roles. and i think that means you can jump in in time. you want and i would appreciate it. ok, let's go to budapest 1st. in, as i said in my introduction, georgia, it will be origins of the conflict in ukraine. the current one will be debated for a long time. but there's one thing that seems quite obvious to me that people don't really want to talk about, is that it's not a catalyst for a major shift paradigm shift in the world. but it's accelerating. and this is something that we've seen before. and because we have deem a bob, it's on the program, i'd like to talk about the limits of neo liberal ideology because i think this is one of the things is conflict tells us so much about. go ahead, george. yeah, no,

you're absolutely right. and the thing of it is that the historians would indeed debate whether a war could have been avoided. there were many signals starting from the fall of 2021, that a serious crisis was intending the tone of the kremlin had changed substantially. there was real concerns about nato policy, especially especially us policy in the ukraine. and despite all the warnings that were coming from moscow, the united states made their just chose to ignore them and tried to fall russia off with a lot of going to be meaningless. promises flooding that's, that's entirely true. and then to the shock of the western leaders and the, the thing with the leaders was saying, oh russia has russia has bailed in your brains. the shock of these leaders,

the what they were planning on, which was the sanctions regime, the mother of all sanctions that were going to bring the russia to it's needed. so we're going to bring the cochin regime out of power that, that has fail. they've failed to get the rest of the world on board with their sanctions regime, with their condemnations of russia and all that. and suddenly showing us is that suddenly the western countries isolated most of the rest of the world simply doesn't take the ukraine crisis. the way the western powers, and that i don't think it's also russia spoke and above all, they don't think that it's in their interest to sabotage the russian economy, but sabotaged the world economy. so suddenly, when you know the nato power bus, you know, north america and japan and australia, they are the ones that are isolated and russia is in the international mainstream.

d, my, the thing is that's very interesting when all this is read because of this idea, logical disposition, the west has their blinded where they can't see reality in front of their face because what informs them is their ideology is yorba saying, you know, of course the world is going to condemn russia because we condemned them. that's. that's a false logic. go ahead demon. well, again, that is what we said that just shows oh, key growers local in the future. and that will tell you why. because you knew that you need to be but you show me that.

so you know, when we are to stage you know what you want something we should do. you know your point, you never know very bad. you know, the last game, these communicate and the all the, all the communication. right? yeah, it's also hubris. ok, i mean, you brought up sergeant schultz, the chancellor of germany. let me go to george right now. isn't it? with the situation, the demon, bring him in reverse. i mean,

couldn't have nato member saying, no, you will never be in nato. it is a close topic. we are an important country in nature. it's done, it's over. let's move on. but sergeant schultz didn't have the grab a task to do that, george? no, that's absolutely right. because if we remember the name, so article 10 that nato loves to invoke about other countries joining nato. it's only on the condition that nato, we so invites, in other countries to join an invites on the basis of unanimity and all the member states of major would have to agree to invite ukraine to join us. so it was, your grain has been wrong by watching them since at least 2014. it would have been the easiest thing in the world. go zelinski. no, it's not going to happen. let's put this on the back burner for at least 25 years. i'm a moratorium for 25 years, so then you would have gone along with, i mean,

you wouldn't have any choice but not to put that pressure on the fact that the response of the western powers was when russia submitted those ultimatums in december 17. while we're just rejecting it, you know, who is russian to tell us what to do, you know, we decide security follows it. it was the western powers that treated these demands with arrogance, and refused even to understand how serious the russians are taking it over and over again. we said we want legal guarantees. we don't want empty promises. legal guarantees. so it's not only immediate the agenda and they go should just fix that . not on the media agenda. so you know, it was getting, it was a major power brokers crisis about the over the last couple of days from the kremlin spokesperson to meet with his car. he said that europe needs to sober up from the american bourbon. ok. which i think i've never heard of put it that way,

but i kind of like it in the in again talking about isolation. the way we, the top of the program here is that when you, europe, it wants russia to shaken its boots. but in fact, in fact, europe is found itself with its pants down because the, the, the sanctions regime that was supposed to cripple and overthrow the, the current political arrangement in russia has utterly failed. i would say just reverse, strengthened it. and, and right in a child in russia has friends around the world because you know why? because they have geopolitical interest and they're not blinded by ideology. go ahead. yeah, you need to be made that the mom he's the doing. they don't

know who you know. we are the war way. don't seem to be more feel more like all the way so call me please ma'am or even so where are the you know, we know so not. ready the year at the work, whether the beach or they come, the really is probably, i mean don't you remember why, why was it all the way the old

more you know the me yeah, you know what happens and you are absolutely right. and then will be cheap for models for these people are really needed. and when they tried to be re received, right. i mean, they said we made a mistake. what we need to do, you really do a walk around, you know, not a whole lot of you are also

deal to all of the you know, they're in the world, but georgia that tell us of so much, you know, they were surprised you're oh, how could this happen, you know, i mean, that means that they're, they're talking to themselves, they're in their own group thing. you know, they find the, the terms and conditions of what can happen and not happen. they truly believe that they're mand rims of the universe. and now they're beginning to realize, oh, where energy dependent on russia, what are we going to do? i mean, but they're, they get so ahead of their feed. they don't think about the implications of their own actions. george. yeah, that's right. that's right. but of course, was that cheap, but a definite pattern in all of west and foreign policy is that off the everything goes south. it's like, well, we didn't really expect that to happen. then maybe it was a mistake to press for

a major membership where you brain, maybe it was a mistake to dismiss rushes concerns in such a peremptory badger went the same thing off the vietnam. we have the same things off the iraq, same things of the year does not have and maybe we shouldn't have issue that we made them to the stubs. so yeah, it always happens. but the extraordinary thing is that economics and finance is something that you would expect. western leaders on the back of the list. this is the capital one thing they know it's, you know, or we can all makes and, you know, give a, whoa, we didn't realize that russia is a lot less dependent on international trade than we. and so therefore, when we impose sanctions, we are going to be hurt more than russia as waiting. why didn't you study history didn't just study that. it was almost entirely old package and the sanctions were throughout existence. and if you, if you, if you start raising and,

and stealing assets, well maybe they'll do a job. oh my goodness, that's not big. wow. they're going to do to us, would we do to them? it's extraordinary. there was there narrow mindedness about 10 seconds more going finish upwards. that's right. even now they have to say that, well, you better keep sending us the oil and the gas a don't you dare expect any payment from it? give it to us immediately, but i'm going to pay you anything. i'd hold out, but we're going to get gentlemen, we're going to go to what you're breaking up for that short break. we'll continue our discussion on some real estate. ah ah ah,

i spoke earlier with her, what are your thousands of people still live in small towns and villages that have become the new frontline towards that brick what they call this area the greys i didn't like the early early from there of course. pretty me what that was only about a you had to come with a bill or chill area jail door. so it will no way. it was funny because i simply wasn't done with the show berella. i knew i through and where she is coach terry lennox on roku. lou, she'll let tell us that. she made a list but that'll hit somebody with buddy alleged before he boise cool here

scott, your party grow your favorite them with because they didn't the global. why do we have finished a crown or can you go to gym and like other than you should be here? ah ah

ah welcome back across the dock were all things are considered on peter? well, this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real issues. ah . okay, let's go back to him here in moscow. i think one of the most interesting things with this, a war of, by sanctions against russia. and this is a war. ok. and i think people have to understand that that all means except for direct military confrontation, which is always in the cards when we have this kind of a conflict is the dollar. and it's, it's really quite amazing. it's kind of like a self goal of the uses and abuses of the dollar, because the petro dollar is very much in question. we have more and more countries

that are getting out of the dollar because, well, they've been treasury department can pres our assets. ok. and in, in the u. k, it's, you know, all the garage sheet, you know, we get this, all gar, can take this yard and without any due process whatsoever. i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. there's been a, there's a very large literature about, you know, the fate of the dollar and how it will one day, like every other fee i currency be replaced. but this is accelerated. i mean by this very, a cavalier attitude about how you can use a financial system to your political gain when it's supposed to be used as a, a, a, a process which everyone has competence in the currency. they're taking that competence away from the currency as we speak. go ahead. well, i can go all very and i know with laurie brennan,

but also you have all rational needs to be probably ought to be changed around the same same german mosque just wanted to see with the finances. i mean, you won't even do your own from or you know, people or people in the law channel. but if you work in your whether you agree, they also the right you get it in your,

in the knowledge. and i think the reason why russia actually the reason why it was they will need your there are the rules because how to by why sending for you to get it and then why do you get that right now we watch too much away. b, a,

b o y. yep. it's in charge one of the outcomes of this in you and i predicted it here on this program and our podcast. the guy goal is that europe is actually, does need kept itself. i mean, because if the russians want to do what the europeans, i just call washington are, has, you know, to an intermediary go to washington because there's, there's no interlocutor in europe left. none of these people are serious. they're not certainly not decision makers and, and europe is, it's diminished itself completely. and whatever words comes because, you know, her particularly at the end of last year, up into the military operation in ukraine. there was just gobbledygook. i mean, they didn't want me, they didn't say anything serious. they didn't act like serious characters. i would even say bad faith characters. and now this is the dilemma they have. i mean, even they have something interesting to say, why should you believe now? go ahead. george, know exactly what, what does happen is what always happens,

which is the united states, instigates a crisis, but somebody else has to pick up the tab and somebody else is always are. so, you know, they, they've applied all this pressure, particularly against germany, to cut themselves off from russian energy by, well, by liquefied natural gas from us. it's going to be much more expensive and you don't really have the resources for it, but invest in the resources to develop a natural gas. very nice for the united states, while united se, just meaningless to so go, we're cutting ourselves off from russian oil, which doesn't matter much of the americans. and then the same thing is happening with this refugee flow. you know, the refugees of you're boring out of your brain. well, we're going to pay for all of this, isn't we? we don't remember 456000000 lot of people. and where are they heading? do they want germany?

their job is going to have to accommodate them, provide them with work permit or, you know, with housing benefits, welfare benefits. everything on top of that, germany is also committed itself to increasing its military expenditure at the request of the united states. where are they going to buy their weapons? george, we're going to buy them from the united united states. so that's why the russian say, well, you know, obviously europe isn't able to look after its own interest. so why should we talk to the europeans? will go directly to the bus, which is the united states, and we have seen this time. and again, just the united states, instigates this and who picks up the, you know, it's a junior european bombers deem it has been so much talk over the last few years about russia's embrace of china or the russia, chinese and brave. and people on the west about we've been very concerned about

a growing concerned about it. but they, they're the ones that have actually made it possible when you know, you know, 20 years ago thinking of a strategic relation between russia and china was not people said it now it's a bat, fema? well again, these 3 or 4 been told you know, i may be more, you know, they probably leave it in genocide . i know all of these is that they

do. they do not calm their idea in man it will be for you in this way. they may or may be wrong only when you reach the age of numa dba is i could use majority in the u. s. and when it's instigates a crisis in ukraine to into port regime change in russia and then they go to the fact and say you get the rest of the about a problem that we created. a new greg, i think the chinese think, you know, you, people are lunatics. okay. and you know,

you, you know, it may be maybe cops. right. you know, maybe stay off the bourbon. ok. because they look quite seriously outside, outside the west road. this looks like a form of lunacy here at georgia. i want to comment something on with you and i have talked about before media coverages of this, particularly in the us. haven't you noticed on box news primetime? that a week ago it was all ukraine. now it's references made because of energy prices and demand and, and what's going on with the dollar haven't, i guess, you know, they're really beginning to realize that the american public is not concerned about a problem that far away, particularly when they're so there was so much oxygen in, you profane and now that story is being whitewashed. it's very difficult. it's awkward here, but the beginning to realize that this is an lead to issue. it's not a citizen. me issue, george. it's very, very interesting because the, initially,

i think fox news wanted to play in the way that i've always laid the cold war. horrible. e will russia horrible evils? soviet union, breast yeah. of course, job style and versus the freedom loving peoples of the world. and they realize that their audience, that would, is just simply wasn't buying it. i mean, the 1st place americans have very serious economic problems of their own with growing inflation. i was out of control, border crime. and so i'm, but above all, i think there's a, there's a feeling among americans that this was a war instigated by the biking group. i mean that the, you know, there's some feeling that may not follow as closely as we do. but the feeling that that by the biden family, the obama vide ministration, all of these characters, they have their hands up to their elbows in the ukraine. and therefore,

think americans and the rest of the world to pay for their own hubris and their corruption. the corruption that hovered in 2014. so, you know, and i think that that's the view of the audience. and that's why the, the, the initial fox response has been thrown down. is that so let's talk about energy independence when we're going to be dependent on russia. yeah. what you would do, but energy independence. it's a response to the core audience. dim and we have about a minute left them a very, very, it's not very often that russians get to speak about what they think about their country and what's going on in ukraine. would you explain maybe to our audience, how people are in russia? are thinking about this conflict in ukraine. go ahead and get about 45 seconds. go ahead. you don't more

or the way we know about it. where is that in? well, it was a yeah, i mean if you've been watching this program, particularly since the last quarter of last year, which both of you are on very, very often we talked about the inevitability of a conflict. when the that the west was completely ignoring other people's interest only their own interest, and they were ideological ones as all the time we have. i want to think, my guess in budapest and here in moscow when i think our be worth for watching us here are the see you next time remember? ah, ah ah, well,

i a ah oh i think wrong. i just don't know. i mean, you have to figure out the thing because the answer and engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart,

we choose to look for common ground. a just information attack was witnessed in the city of blue chit and the key of region following withdrawal of the russian troops. russia is foreign minister as slums of faith, disturbing footage from boucher which on prompted keys to blame russian forces for the mass getting billed civilians. here from a reporter who covered the situation on the ground from the outskirts solve ukrainian talent. i know for sure that the troops left the city of march to 31 march 31st. this was confirmed by the mayor of the city of butcher didn't mention any body's line in the streets. ukraine's media poles, its own fake news reports, blaming russia for the gruesome killing of a woman in the dumbass city of the modern youthful.