are in moscow, we have to meet with bob and she's a political analyst and editor. it interests me. internet media project, right? gentleman cross talk rules, and that means you can jump in anytime you want. and i would appreciate it. okay, let's go to go to past 1st. as i said in my introduction, georgia meeting will be origins of the conflict in ukraine. the current one will be debated for a long time. but there's one thing that seems quite obvious to me that people don't really want to talk about, is that it's not a catalyst for a major shift paradigm shift in the world. but it's accelerating it. and this is something that we've seen before. and because we have the ma bobby on the program, i'd like to talk about the limits of neal liberal ideology because i think this is one of the things that conflict tells us so much about. go ahead, george. yeah, no, you are absolutely right. and the thing of it is that the historians would indeed debate whether a war could have been avoided. there were many signals sobbing from the

fall of 2021. that a serious crisis was impending. the tone of the kremlin had changed substantially. there was real concerns about nato policy, especially us policy in the ukraine. and despite all the warnings that were coming from moscow, the united states made their just chose to ignore them and tried to fall russia off with a lot of going to meet meaningless promises flooding that's, that's entirely true. and then to the shock of the western leaders and the, the thing with the leaders was saying, oh russia has russia has failed in the shock of these leaders. the what they were planning on, which was the sanctions regime. the mother of all sanctions are going to bring the russia to it needs are going to bring the coach in regime out of power that, that has fail. they fail to get the rest of the world on board with the sanctions

regime with a condemnation of russia. and one of them suddenly showing us is that western countries isolated, most of the rest of the world simply doesn't take the ukraine crisis, the way the western powers. and they don't think it's also russia spoke and above all, they don't think that it's in their interest to sabotage the russian economy and but sabotage of the world economy. so suddenly that, you know, the nato powers, the north america and japan, australia, they are the ones that are isolated and russia is in the international mainstream. d ma. and the thing is that very interesting. all this is when, because of the ideological disposition, the west has their blinded way. they can't see reality in front of their face because what informs them is their id. ology is yorba saying, you know,

of course the world is going to condemn russia because we condemned them. that's. that's a false logic. go ahead demon. well, again, the question is and the reason we said that just shows oh, key. broader local in the future. and that's why because you knew that you knew that but you show me that so you know, when we are 2 stages you know

what you want something we should do. you know your point, you never know very bad. you know, the last game these communicate and the ball was the be all communication. right? yeah. it's also hubris. ok, i mean, you brought up sergeant schultz, the chancellor of germany. let me go to george right now. isn't it? with the situation, the demon, bring him in reverse. i mean, couldn't have nato member saying, no, you will never be in nato. this is a close topic. we are an important country in nature. it's done, it's over. let's move on. but sergeant schultz didn't have the grab a task to do that, george?

no, that's absolutely right. because if we remember the name, so article 10 that nato loves to invoke about other countries joining nato. it's only on the condition that nato, we so invites, in other countries to join an invites on the basis of unanimity and all the member states of major would have to agree to invite ukraine to join us. so it was, your grain has been wrong by watching them since at least 2014. it would have been the easiest thing in the world. joe zelinski. no, it's not going to happen. they don't, let's what this on the back burner for at least 25 years. i'm a moratorium for 25 years. so then you would have gone along with, i mean, you wouldn't have any choice but not to put that pressure on the fact that the response of the western powers was when russia submitted those ultimatums in december 17th. well, we're just rejecting it, you know,

who is russian to tell us what to do. you know, we decide security policy. it was the western powers that treated these demands with arrogance, and refused even to understand how serious the russians are taking it over and over again. we said we want legal guarantees, we don't want empty promises. legal guarantees. so it's not only immediate the agenda and they go should just fix that. not on the media agenda. so, you know, it was a major power brokers crisis about the over the last couple of days from the kremlin spokesperson to meet with his car. he said that europe needs to sober up from the american bourbon. ok, which i think i've never heard of, put it that way, but i kind of like it in the in again talking about isolation. the way we, the top of the program here is that when you, europe, it wants russia to shaken its boots. but in fact, in fact,

europe is found itself with its pants down because the, the, the, the sanctions regime that was supposed to cripple and overthrow the, the current political arrangement in russia has utterly failed. i would say just reverse, strengthened it. and, and right in a child in russia has friends around the world because you know why, because they have geopolitical interest and then wrapped, blinded by ideology. go ahead. yeah, you need to be made that the mom is the one doing they don't in the glenn and then he said it was you know, we are the war. we don't see people who are feel like all the way. so people

policemen were even there. so when you control whether, you know, we know that was a year at the beach or they call the really is probably, i mean don't you remember why there were, why was it all the way older more so you need to work. yeah. you

know, and you are absolutely right and then will be cheap for models for these people. and when they tried to be re received the right word. i mean, they said we made a mistake. what we need to do, you really do a walk around, you know, not a whole lot of you are also deal to all of the you know, they're mature just that. tell us so much, you know, they were surprised your, oh, how could this happen?

you know, i mean, that means that they're, they're talking to themselves, they're in their own group thing. you know, they find the, the terms and conditions of what can happen and not have, they truly believe that they're mand rims of the universe. and now they're beginning to realize, oh, where energy dependent on russia, what are we going to do? i mean, but they're, they get so ahead of their speed. they don't think about the implications of their own actions. george. yeah, that's right. that's right. but of course, was the chief, but a definite pattern in all of western foreign policy is that off the everything goes out. it's like, well, we didn't really expect that to happen. then maybe it was a mistake to press for a major membership where you brain, maybe it was a mistake to dismiss rushes concerns in such a peremptory badger. at the same thing, some of the vietnam had the same things off the iraq, same things of the year does not haven't,

maybe we shouldn't have issue that we made them to the stubs. so yeah, it was happens. but the extraordinary thing is that economics and finance is something that you would expect western leaders to understand a list of this was, you know, the capital. one thing they know it's, you know, or we can all makes. and, you know, give a low. we didn't realize that russia is a lot less dependent on international trade than we so therefore when we impose sanctions, we are going to be hurt more than russia. as we did you study history. a was almost entirely more darky and on the sanctions were to out it's existence. if you start racing and, and stealing assets. well maybe they'll do it to us. oh my goodness. that's not what, wow, they're going to do to us what we do to them. it's extraordinary there, but they're narrow mindedness of all. it's 10 seconds. and even

now they have the know to say that well, you better keep sending us the oil and gas and don't you dare expect any payment to give it to us immediately. but we're not going to pay you anything. i'd hold out, but we're going to get gentlemen, we're going to go to what you're breaking up about your break. we'll continue our discussion on some real mistake. oh, a with her with you. i'm with

ah. a with with both, both the models you need to do your book nelson's new. please deal with

political, your home owner's carbon perform a lot of them bought a human own floyd them boss with all they need to levy and use that because on your normally with he's here with us the personal number here that we're married with a welcome back to crowds not,

we're all things are considered. i'm peter. well, this is a home addition to remind you. we're discussing some real issues. oh okay, let's go back to d. m a. here in moscow. i think one of the most interesting things with this, a war of, by sanctions against russia and this is a war. ok. i think people have to understand that that all means except for a direct military confrontation which is always in the cards. when we have this kind of scrub accomplish is the dollar. and it's really quite amazing. it's kind of like a self goal of the uses and abuses of the dollar. because the petro dollar is very much in question. we have more and more countries that are getting out of the dollar because well, they've been treasury department can praise our assets,

ok. and in, in the u. k, it's all the garage sheet. you know, when you get this, all god can take this yard and without any due process whatsoever. i mean, it's really quite extraordinary. there's been, there's a very large literature about, you know, the fate of the dollar and how it will one day, like every other currency be replaced. but this is accelerated. i mean by this very cavalier attitude about how you can use a financial system to your political game when it's supposed to be used as a, a, a process which everyone has competence in the currency. they're taking that competence away from the currency as we speak. go ahead the ma. well, i think this is all very and i know a lot but also to have all rational needs

to be probably all need to be changed around. she said, what you just said german just wanted to see when the finances are in when you oh, even your own from or you know, people read all the people in the bridge. you know, if you were going to new york, when you read, they also you get it in your, you know, and i think the reason why russia actually read why

is it was they will need your there are the rules because how does the same for you and then why do you want to go away so that way you won't be charged one of the outcomes of this in you and i predicted it here program and our

podcast. the gaggle is that europe is actually does kneecamp itself. i mean, because if the russians want to deal with the europeans, they just call washington or has, you know, through an intermediary go to washington because there's, there's no interlocutor in europe left. none of these people are serious. they're not certainly not decision makers and, and europe is, it's diminished itself completely. and whatever words comes because, you know, particularly at the end of last year, up into the military operation in ukraine. there was just gobbledygook. i mean, they didn't want, they, they didn't say anything serious. they didn't quite serious characters. i would even say bad faith characters. and now this has been, i mean, they have, i mean, even they have something interesting to say. mean, why should you believe him? now go ahead. george. know exactly what has happened is what always happens, which is the united states, instigates a crisis,

but somebody else has to pick up the tab at somebody else's always euro. so the, you know, they, they applied all this pressure, big liggins, germany to couple cells, all russian energy, well, by liquefied natural gas from us is going to be much more expensive and you don't really have the results as far as invest in the resources to develop liquefied natural gas, very nice for the united states, while the night they just meaningless is that go with cutting ourselves off from russian oil, which doesn't matter much in the american. and then the same thing is happening with this refugee flow. you know, the, the refugees of you're boring out of your brain. well, we're going to pay for all this isn't we don't all 56 millions of people. and where are they heading to one germany or german is going to have to accommodate them. provide them with work permit or, you know, with housing benefits,

welfare benefits, everything on top of that, germany is also committed itself to increasing its military expenditure at the request of the united states. where are they going to buy their weapons? george, we're going to buy them from the united united states. so that's why the russian say, well, you know, obviously europe isn't able to look after its own interests. and why should we talk to the europeans, will go directly to the, which is the united states. and we have seen this time, and again the united states instigates this and who picks up the, you know, it's julia, european bombers, deem it has been so much talk over the last few years about russia's embrace of china or the russia, chinese and brave. and people on the west of all, we've been very concerned about growing, concerned about it. but they, they're the ones that have actually made it possible when, you know, you know, 20 years ago, thinking of a strategic relation between russia and china was not people said it. now it's

about the ma. well again, the 3 or 4 been told about you know, the latest you they probably leave it in genocide. i know all of these further and they do. they do not calm their idea

in the school, we should all be in this way, the child and then maybe role only when you read dba, if i could use the ga, the us infinite, instigates the crisis in ukraine to into port regime change in russia and then they go to the east and say you get the rest of the about a problem that we created. and you greg, i mean, i think the chinese think, you know, you, people are lunatics. okay. and you know, you, you know, it may be maybe cops right. you know, maybe stay off the bourbon. ok, because they look quite seriously outside, outside the west road. this looks like

a form of lunacy here at georgia. i want to comment something on with you and i have talked about before media coverages of this, particularly in the us. i've been to notify unbox news prime time a week ago it was all ukraine. now it's references made because of energy prices and demand and, and what's going on with the dollar haven't, i guess, you know, they're really beginning to realize that the american public is not concerned about a problem that far away, particularly when they're so there was so much option in you prepaying and now that story is being whitewashed. it's very difficult. it's awkward here, but the beginning to realize that this isn't a need to issue. it's not a citizen. me issue dark. it's a very, very interesting because the, initially, i think fox news wanted to play in the way that i've always laid the cold war.

horrible. e will russia horrible evils? soviet union, breast yeah. of course of style in the freedom loving peoples of the world. and they realize that their audience, that order is just simply wasn't buying it. i mean, the birthplace americans have very serious economic problems of their own with growing inflation out of control, border crime and so on. but the, well, i think there's a, there's a feeling among americans that this was the war instigated by the biking group. i mean that the, you know, there's some feeling that may not follow things as closely as we do, whether the feeling that the biden biden's family, the obama, by ministration, all of these characters, they have their hands up to their elbows in the ukraine. and therefore, think americans and the rest of the world to pay for their own risk and their

corruption, the corruption that a $100.00 in 2014. so you know, and i think that that's the view of the audience. and that's why these, the initial walks response has been thrown down. is that so let's talk about energy independence. when we're going to be dependent on russia. yeah. what you would do about energy independence. it's a response to the core audience dim and we have about a minute left them a very, very, it's not very often that russians get to speak about what they think about their country and what's going on in ukraine. would you explain maybe to our audience, how people are in russia? are thinking about this conflict in ukraine? go ahead to get about 45 seconds. go ahead. you know where, where gives more people what was the where, when and where

it was. yeah. i mean, if you've been watching this program, particularly since the last quarter of last year, which both of you are on very, very often we talked about the inevitability of accomplish when the, the west was completely ignoring other people's interests only their own interest. and they were ideological and as all the, and we have, i want to thank my guessing, budapest, and here in moscow when i think our be, we're still watching us here on our dcea next time. remember, ah, ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer?

tice elation for community. are you going the right way? or are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true was is great. in the world corrupted, you need to descend to join us in the depths or remain in the shallows. ah, needs to come to the russian state. total narrative. i've tied as i'm phone and ignore some scheme div, asking him, i'm not getting calls all sons. i'm at 4 make within 55 with. okay, so mine is 2000 speedy. one else with we

will van in the european union, the kremlin. yup. machine. the state on russia for date and our t spoke neck. even our video agency, roughly all bands on youtube and pinterest and with, ah mm oh, when i was showing wrong, i just don't know. i mean, you have to see how this thing becomes the applicant and engagement. it was the trail. when so many find themselves will depart,

we choose to look so common ground. ah, sing the little so what happened in which i will leave you will. so there is the russian ambassador to the un says the country will seek to shed some light on the deaths of civilians in the ukrainian city of boucher. despite the u. k. rejecting russia's call for an emergency meeting of the un security council to discuss the incident. ukrainian media polls its own fake news report which blamed russia for the gruesome killing of a woman whose body was found with a swastika carved in her stomach and a ukrainian nationalist stronghold. we spoke to the american journalist who it's both the story. this happened with the school number 25 which was as a brain.