ah, with flu still, what happened didn't would you, would it be a little so it rushes ambassador to the un phase, and moscow is sent to shed light on the dance of civilians in the ukrainian city of china as the slums. the disturbing footage from there as fake. that's as the un security council is scheduled to meet later today tuesday to discuss the conflict with. we also hear from a former officer in the ukrainian security services who calls that boucher story quote, a staged provocation full of inconsistencies. he believes the release of the footage of the clear on tape russian. the task here had several goals,

cement to target various audiences. take, for example, the population of ukraine controlled by key of the goal here is to trigger hatred towards the russian army so that people do not even think about some kind of brotherly relationship. and a spanish journalist claims most of the reports of crimes by ukrainian forces against don bos residents are true after heading to the region himself to investigate. the also voice is concerned over why such incidents are going on, reported by many western media. terrible news that i can now share is that most of the information coming out is true and in the west. there is no desire to investigate and report on what is really happening in maryville and on bass with

good avia with us today just after 4 in the afternoon here in moscow. i'm, you know, neil, let's get to our top story. a stage provocation by keith. thus the assessment from the russian ambassador to the u. n. following the shocking footage that's come out of the ukranian ton of butcher showing images of dead civilians lying in the streets and others piled in moss grapes. his statement came as they un security council is scheduled to meet later today to discuss the conflict in ukraine, ukraine's defense ministry earlier claim they alleged killings had been perpetrated by russian troops. sicily, the banjo. however, say's russia will shed more light on what actually happened there. so from the very beginning it has been clear that this sir is nothing else but yet another stage through occasion aimed discrediting. and you can realizing of the russian military and leveling political rational brush on russia. i think the for the truth of what

happened when would you would, if you will. so it is. well, let's then take a closer look at what is known so far about the butcher killings. a warning you may find the images were about to show disturbing. at the footage from which are those images have circulated thrive, various media outlets sounds journalists gained access to the area shortly after ukrainian forces entered the time following the russian withdrawal. now they apparently show the charred bodies of a family, including children. the images have not been independently verified, but keith is accusing russian soldiers of being responsible. the cities murder made no mention of any bodies in the streets. in a video announcement released following the russian army exit. lucy, due to france, the honored community of neutral march. 31st will become history, 1st city, and the entire territorial community as the day of liberation from russian occupants by the armed forces of ukraine. i stayed that this day is a great day,

a day of great victory. now shortly after that, the ukranian national police released this video of soldiers combing through butcher after their tick over some rec vehicles appear to be the only signs of fighting in the city. a no dead bodies can be seen in the streets, interviews conducted by ukrainian forces in different parts of the chill, so seemed of no mention of the mass killings, hundreds of civilians by russia. now in addition, on march the 25th, the ukrainian interior ministers advisor posted the following video. people said that their homes were shelled immediately after at russian forces had the liberty monetary and aid to the good. the russians were there with an inspection to see where civilians are. they still the children asked if we were hungry if we had met sin and so on. as a result,

they lay to put 2 of their kits and literally an hour later our house was chowed. after that, of course, we realized that we needed to leave you. we interviewed a former officer of the ukrainian security services about the butcher killings. he feels the story being told by cube is a stage provocation, which raises more questions than it does answers. when you go work, the story is riddled with inconsistencies, the russian forces withdrew on march the 30th, but the ukrainians released these images only on april. the 3rd this already says something the longer they would have dragged it out, the more questions it would have raised. i think those who staged this provocation tried so hard. they made a series of serious mistakes. why didn't they remove the white bandages from their arms? pretty much all of those who they showed on video had white arm bands, those in the city war, those white bands, while russian forces were present to show their status as civilians. the task here

had several goals meant to target various audiences. take, for example, the population of ukraine controlled by key of the goal here is to trigger hatred towards the russian army so that people do not even think about some kind of brotherly relationship. another target audience is the population of western countries, and one more target audience is the leadership of western countries in the west. and the task is to create a public opinion that will be unambiguously favor towards key of and against russia . asked for the leadership over the goal is different than they need a reason to gain maximum support for the cranium. authorities will even in the absence of any investigation, the international community has been quick to lay the blame for the alleged mass killings on russia with the u. s. seeing it will push for moscow suspension from the un human rights console. and while british and us officials have call for an investigation by the international criminal court,

the u. k. block rushes call for an urgent un security council meeting on monday, rushes un envoy phase. the refusal to meet is unprecedented. on western countries are actively promoting, quote, anti russian artists. i'm for incidentals, believable, unsinkable, that we were denied the security council meeting. that we requested. the reason why the worst and delegation will do this is very simple. it would not be benefit. worse, of course, the security council meeting is colleen by russia since this will shake them to russian. lana, if the comfort of new promo to the ambassador certainly did not hold anything back during that press conference. and he specifically went on to note a number of the claims that are being made that are being spread all across social media right now. and how they simply don't line up with the facts. he referred to this as a false life operation. he specifically noted that the mayor of boucher was smiling

and happy and talking about how the city was re i russian forces just a few days before mentioned mentioning nothing about any sort of civilian casualties. and he then went on to take a look at the videos that are being posted across social media to know how they simply do not line up with the world in which we saw that the russian troops were there in boucher for weeks that they were there with the civilians of the civilians were allowed to walk freely. now he also noted that all of these statements that he was making that he wanted to be making them before the united nations security council. however, he noted that it was the u. k. that claim men came in and blocked that though, and he referred to that action as unprecedented. this behavior is very illustrative and reveals to it today of the worst truly ukrainian people. while blocking the

discussion with you, a clear cut occasionally, english classic gibber style that is going to have serious implications for international peace and security the worst. and delegations rushed to cuz i mean a security council meeting the educational girls in august on some time ago. sometime ago, so you can see where they are, but it is now important to know that the united states is saying that it will go before the un general assembly and call for russia to be kicked out of the human rights council. of course, russia is noted that there are a number of accounts of hypocrisy regarding the u. s. and its actions here. however, moscow is still saying that is calling for that un security council meeting. and i hope that it will be an option at some point in the future. well, let's welcome live onto the program. now academic and independent journalist jason michael. jason, you are a very welcome to the program. today. you've just written an article about the

alleged, the trustees in boucher and conclude there are some announcements, questions about what actually occurred there. what are the main ones? well, the main question for me would be a question of chronology, the timeline. all the events is certainly something that would cause any independent analyst and some concerned that the russian forces ours is acknowledged even by the ukrainian side when leaving ad butcher and the novel or blast by the thought here. which by then by the 31st we hope the advanced troops of the ukrainian for your cleaning and forward garden, the police units going into the city arms are the program has already said, there is no indication any way or of a massacre. a number of events that then continue to happen from there would

indicate such as the arrival of the mayor number all police squads, the adult battalion, and then the finally the police security unit. preparing for a sweep of the 30 and nothing is then reported of a massacre until. ready the, the evening of the 2nd of april, which leaves the window of 72 hours between the departure, all russian forces on the arrival of the ukrainian. so what you're saying is the things just aren't adding up as the, as they should come. especially what the western media are saying with that in mind, jason, from what you've seen so far, do you think it's safe to say the press television? you're in dublin, in europe. what's perhaps you've seen in the u. s. as well? have made a snap judgment regarding the events in butcher or quite clearly there has been a rush to judgment. i think

a fair analysis of this situation would say that there is an urgent need for an investigation that that has to be forensically analyzed, which hasn't happened at the the chronology, as we've already discussed, would say that, well, yes, that would be a need for an investigation on to phoebe un security council i under the chairmanship of, but it refused that to russia. i think if quite worrying and confounding to say the least, the key of government at the moment appears to be the only source of information that's getting through there. but we should remember it's information in the past, sometimes like to act receive a sneak island surrender, for example. why do you think then that people and i'm talking, but formerly sober at thinking journalists are willing to believe everything that is sent to them from ukraine. oh, well,

i would imagine like most media around the world, it comes with an agenda that we work with and hedge a monic systems where this is a war and the, the 1st casualty of, of a war not to get too cliched is the truth. journalists in this conflict like most other conflicts, are partners on the british and american media. quite clearly have an agenda to drive and you know, it's very difficult at the. ready moment to find anything that breaks with the the prevailing narrative. everything that dulls deviate from the narrative is being showed to don't. it's being called put an apology of them. it's being called pro russian. it's an incredibly difficult media and vitamin in which to be clear headed in which to look at things, you know, a sober mind. that's the thing, isn't it? just because you're skeptical doesn't necessarily mean you're pro, put and not message thing stuff got lost in the fog of things. well,

of course. no. i think the, my only concern here is one for, you know, a great human tragedy. we have a situation here where we have somewhere between 20400 dead civilians, someone has killed them. i can't tell you who killed them. what i can tell you is that there are serious questions in the timeline. the, the ukrainian forces that me never seen any dead bodies. when they arrived into the settee, the man was unaware of it. the council authorities who announced a coming sweep were unaware of dead bodies. and yet when b as old battalion entered, undo the sweep with the safari security security team that evening. all of a sudden we have very visible, very public and massacre. so yeah,

that, that should raise some, confounds jason, just finally, something to touch on. the key government has been very active and it's use of social media and another as sorts of promotion as well. do you think it's been successful and dominating the information? we're well, it has had some success. absolutely. and you know, this is the environment in which we live. but social media being water is high presented are very powerful counter narrative. we have seen, i read just feelings of civilians in many settings and times that are ukraine being abused by ukrainian nationalists by members of the army. only today we saw a group of civilians being, you know, viciously assaulted by members of the ukrainian army. and that information is getting as well. and i, i feel that the longer the conflict goes on, the more the viewing public are getting to see that there isn't quite as much of

a black and white not to as that. it's a very great narrative to this entire just and thank you very much for your time today. by the way. where can you find that article you wrote? or you can find on standpoint 0 dot com. okay, for years will know that no, jason, thanks for your time today. jason michael, academic, independent journalist, new disturbing footage are partly showing captured russian soldiers executed by ukrainian troops has emerged on line. we, for obvious reasons, can show you the video and full because of it's extremely graphic content. several men in uniform are seen lying on the road and pools of blood with their hands tied behind their backs. one of them apparently still alive, and this suddenly shot in the head several times at close range. the killers are heard shouting, pro ukrainian slogans. russian officials say the gruesome incident is under investigation. separately we heard from some russian soldiers who say they were

tortured while in ukrainian captivity. the the video poster. they make me constantly without even asking questions. who was just non stop screaming? my lack of food, people were being beaten, they didn't even scream, they howled. it just doesn't sound human. i've heard a man's ribs break, his alms break. his civilian was watching, brushing news on his phone. he was taken there. a 71 year old man with diabetes. he was lying there, his hands bandaged. they were women. there also was who knew some of them as i knew . can they tied hands and feet and were beaten them? i had a beard and their attitude to was chechens is bad. they were kicking us in the face on the had on the ribs threatened to hang and castrate us. they filmed us during the meetings, muscle work, motion, the bus, they'll extend key. they put us against the wall and many ukrainian soldiers were deciding what to do with us. some one offered to shoot at the legs,

some one just to kill when we were kept in the gym. it was very cold. they constantly mocked the pilot's beat. them forced them not to sleep. they were saying the pilot could return to russia only as disabled people shall issue. this will you give parents in a shop interviewing us. we were lying in the gym blindfolded and heard how they beat one soldier all night. and in the morning they said, do you even know that you slept next to a corpse? i think he was being the sticks to which will some western observers who say they are being shown a one sided picture of the conflict by their media at home. have actually gone to don boss to find out what's really happening there. spanish blogger and political analysts that rubin his birth is one of them. he sais, western country support in care of with weapons, could be complicit in what he calls a genocide. as part of my analysis of the situation in international politics, especially on the internet and social networks, there have been reports coming in for 2 or 3 weeks. that there have been civilian

deaths, especially in the city of mario pal, at the hands of military units connected to the government of president zalinski b. it's the, as of the italian or members of their regular ukrainian army. since this media content is not available for axis in spain, along with many other media sources related to the russian state, i decided to try to get as close as possible to the scene of these events. so i was even able to go there myself to check to the best of my ability, what kind of information i am getting at home in spain, the terrible news that i can now share, which i have done so the other day, for example, to a spanish tv channel with a big audience and also an interview to horizontal, a is that most of the information coming out is true and in the west. there is no desire to investigate and report on what is really happening in maryville and don bassett. this is clearly a political agenda, which i am now exposing. i do not support the russian state, nor mister zalinski, nor any political organizations yet. but what i'm simply trying to lay out here is

all the information regarding the conflict and ukraine regarding the civil war in john bass since 2014, the most important part of this all is that my own country, spain and the west, are supplying weapons to the government of ukraine, we need to look at what is being done with these weapons it because if they are being used to kill civilians, as i think they are, than this is genocide and therefore my country will be complicit in genocide. i am not sure we can say this is really happening right now with absolute certainty the what, what i am asking for and what i am demanding here. and wherever else i am, given a chance to speak is an international monitoring mission to find out what's really going on. but especially in cities, where there are more journalists risking their lives, such as patrick lancaster was been revealing such atrocities on a daily basis. just an additional note, the pentagon phase, i cannot independently verify the notorious footage from the grinning ton of bitch,

adding that quote, we have said even before that the russians were going to be brutal. as we mentioned earlier, moscow has called the accusations of the trustees in which are a staged provocation. well, let's welcome on to the program. now in the studio here beside me, oksana boy collection on the is the host, the forty's at world apart program. thank you again. yeah. taking the time today. so we have the pentagon just 1st port parts. alex out of the pentagon, said it cannot verify the funds from future. it's a fascinating quote because think about it union, but why have, why shouldn't be able? yeah, they have full access, right. see they're in partnership. now let's go with that with their ukrainian with the ukranian military. they aren't there. yeah. they have access to all the evidence and all of a sudden they cannot confirm the story. they counted very few that either, but you know, the fact that pentagon quietly backing away from it, i think he's

a demonstration that even they are pooled by the scale of inconsistency and contradictions. i'm being diplomatic here in this whole story. i know you ran a couple of news about how strange or inconsistent it may seem. i don't think we're talking about one sided picture here. we are talking here about a fully fledged deliberate i miss or disinformation, whatever you call it. because you know, if, if those atrocities indeed took place, it wouldn't, wouldn't have been difficult to verify them, but they have access to the bodies. they can do the autopsies, they can establish the authenticity of the videos, for example. because we know that the ukranian authorities to go over the city 2 days prior to the reporters rolling in, butcher on, i think it was march 4th. so they, they have all the access and all the information available. and yet,

for some reason, the even the pentagon with all its my, they pass a t. m expertise counselor to verify their part from it and say they're saying, well, we don't want to put our name to what happened to lose me because it's pretty clear that the story is going to, well, it's already falling apart and it's going to be a major embarrassment for the ukrainians and the americans are now trying to discuss, dissociated themselves from it if we perhaps just widen up the conversation a little bit. because we've been speaking to some gas recently, and they always put the point that absolutely they, the, the images from future are shocking. they're very disturbing to watch russia again face at the stage provocation. but they say that we can't help remember how such sensitive images have been used in the past to manipulate public opinion. it's not once or twice either. well, it's, there is a whole genre, cold atrocity propaganda and it emerged. well, well, i would say that even,

you know, you know, a couple centuries ago, but with the emergence of broadcast television has been very popular. and i think one of the most memorable examples, maybe our viewers, remember that the so called nariah testimony, the testimony of a 15 year old simple girl from kuwait who was with tears in her eyes telling stories about how iraqi soldiers were you know, pulling babies from incubator is in the hospital in a way to hospital stealing those incubators and letting those poor babies die on the floor. and that story was picked up by numerous american media was repeated by the american president george bush, senior at the time. i think he referred to at least 10 times. it was supposedly independently corroborated by amnesty international, which conducted boldly independent research into that all to be proven falls later off time as well. some 17 percent. i was just reading of the american public

before that testimony were in support of action against iraq issue weight that rose to 60 percent following the test. it was very, very instrumental in swaying the public opinion precisely because it was heating, add them, you know, the most vulnerable point. you know, the, the butchery, the, the, the murderous aggression against the most vulnerable of what, you know, who is most more vulnerable than babies in incubators. and at the end of the day, it, it turned out that it wasn't the simple girl from kuwait. she was actually a daughter of the weight ambassador. well, let's, let's listen knocked on it to, to that actual testimony we, we can played for viewers now. i volunteer, volunteered at the l. a dime hospital with 12 other women who wanted to help as well as the youngest volunteer. the other women were from 20 to 30 years old. was there? i saw the rocky soldiers coming to the hospital again. they took the baby of

incubators. took thank you, bears and left the children to die on the call for for litters. the thing i mean when, when you look at it, you know, your, your hard eggs, but she was a stablish to 2 years later. they said that she was actually a daughter of the way back to the united states who lobbied very hard for the american troops. to go into his country, it was the pretext for the gulf war. it was later established that a couple of babies actually died and wait a hospitals, but not because of the iraqi soldiers whenever status of their food there. but because of the way to doctors and nurses who deserted the premises, but all was forgotten later on, but come on in every conflict since then we had a similar story bid in yugoslavia, in syria, in libya, some hard breaking story that served the precise purpose to provoke western

intervention and i specifically remember because that was back down on the ground in libya and in guys the story of gadhafi viagra being distributed among get out his soldiers. and that story had, you know, if it went all the way to the international criminal court, they had of that war that, that time, i think his name was lose. moreno comp will went, cobbling saying that they have the evidence that they have the testimony, the american officials, including us and why susan rice was very public and very certain that it did happen . how did you find out after good after you, after? you know, the united nations authorized no fly zone over libya? after good off, he was brutal murder than his country was turned into one huge slave market. it appeared it immersed rather that it was was, even though that story was run by multiple outlets from bbc to all jazeera, it was all false. and it doesn't matter just because the purpose is dawn. so even

if it come out later and say an apology, what does not care in the case of that girl, 50000 iraqis died following. absolutely. and one thing i, i was listening to your program, to your conversation with the guests earlier, and you ask a question, how come that those formerly sober thinking journalists were buying it so easily and it's actually a very valid question. even the pentagon is not buying it in the pentagon is not citing with the story, but all the international outlet, those formerly or supposedly sober thinking general, is our own running away the story of boucher a butcher. and, you know, you need to understand the ukrainian sort of p, our mentality to understand that such, coincidence is not coincidental. you know, buttery and butcher. i think there were a couple of bride p r minds. we decided that, you know, this is a great headline for the westerners to swallow and you know,

inter term that calculation, i think, proved accurate just in terms of the reaction from, at the information that's being sent from ukraine. because that's what it is. because people in the west can't make up their own independent minds and what are the points of you being but taking on here, you've got the president going on a drive to virtually every major country in the world going on prime time television, going to congress going to parliament and getting an uncontested questioning about what he's actually, what is happening. so in is that the p r drive that's going to continue? it's not the way this war is going to progress. well, at the end of the day, this is all he can do. i mean, he's trying to mitigate and fight this war the best he can. so i'm, you know, the president lies a lying that's not the an issue for me. i think that has been happening with

politicians for you know, times a memorial since time. so my point is he's not being challenged. she is not being challenged. that's precisely in the bell, turned to the point of views are also not allow our channel is taking off has been taken off the air of all social media. but one thing i want to mention here is that a couple of years ago, nader explicitly publicly passed the doctrine of the so called cognitive warfare, which is pretty, a pretty straight terms laid out what they see as an alternative to kinetic warfare . that a manipulation of public opinion trying to sort of shape the views, the public views in the country to the favor of the political position. and this is exactly what they're doing. you know, they've been investing in that for quite some time the ukrainians got a lot of help and support that expertise from the west. and ultimately they are banking.