did you want to walk? see yes, i was ah ah. below in welcome to cross top where all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle. europe finds itself in a quandary. it is determined to punish russia for its military operation in ukraine . its favorite policy instrument is of course, sanctions of all sorts. but alas, it's not so simple. sanctions and gender counter sanctions. this translates into economic pain. for europe,

ah, crossing europe's fate. i'm joined by my guess i'd rail can santa in london. he is founder of a k consulting and a foreign affairs analyst in paris. we have rachel marston. she is a political columnist and coast of unpredicted with rachel marston, and in prague we crossed to bred blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t. n. a freelance reporter, fresh and why as well as an r t contributor across oc rules and the fact that means he can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate rachel, let me go to you 1st in paris. one of my favorite phrases over the years has been the law of unintended consequences. now, with the fervor of almost like a crusade, europe's intend to punish russia for its operations in ukraine are beginning to serve counterproductive. ends here. i mean, particularly in the area of energy and as much as nato in the u. e. you want to

talk about unity. the more they talk about sanctions, the less unity there is. go ahead. rachel? yeah, what's interesting is french for him and here, and my whole face is real in the next few days, at least the 1st round of the campaign and he's in a tight race right now against and then from the far right. and he's facing a real problem because he flatter the said several times that nato is brain dead that need to move the new mission. that nieto cannot just focus on russia. and yeah, absolutely nothing, not only to re orient things in that sense, but also to stop the proxy war, which is essentially what we're seeing right now when you create it, nato versus russia using ukraine as possible. and even then the home was doing a lot of shuttle diplomacy between moscow in the us fire to all this popping off

in february. yep. and oh, you really had to do was just say, friend isn't getting involved in this. we're not sending ukraine. we're not getting involved in this. hey, if us has a problem with russia. if for you guys to do it by do that. it probably would be actually in the situation. instead, what he's doing now is trying to play both sides of court from the middle, as you'd like to say, he's saying on one side, look, i'm trying to go in position for europe, the best for europe. that's best for the people and friends at the same time saying, well look, where was the united states, where with nato and were united way should have done is adopted the position that he sees himself as representing although he doesn't, and that is the position a former french president shuffled a gun general from world war 2, who basically pulled brands out of nato command, and the french stayed outside of nieto until nicholas are cozy. in

rachel, the reason why my crown didn't do it because he has no courage. that's his problem . ok, he can talk all he was, but he didn't have any. great, i'm glad rachel brought this up because i was going to go to this here. let me go to address on this here. mac chrome defends dialogue with russia. continuing talks with moscow can build, quote, a new architecture of peas. well, where were you? in december, january, february, when the russians were talking about a new architecture for security in europe, a grow, this is laughable history is going to laugh at this man. adrian, go ahead and i'm not quite sure where the history will laugh at this. if we understand how the politics in europe are governed, we need to bear in mind that this politicians told no whole, no power when it comes to the internal decisions within the european politics. i

mean, the real decision makers in washington d. c. and this has been said already 1927 by a famous french po valerie, that europe is currently governed by the united states. and these, these, these are the effects of, of being covered and being a lot sovereign entity. so obviously i'm on my home trying to portray him so as a war time leader. and he's trying to get the best of both worlds, you know, playing as a mediator between the west and, and president what he may put in the same time. he's contradicting his own internal and foreign policy by leaning towards being instead of having a euro european security autonomy. i would say i would call it a european security dependence on the united states. and what i would like to say

is stuff is quite significant to bear in mind that what is happening in europe is a repercussion of, of, of the united states strategy to somehow put in place the offshore balance. a strategy here in europe to somehow engage a russia in fighting or we can call it a military mission to denies of fi. now ukraine, but at the same time on tuesday, the executive of nato just sultan book set up and now, and nato is looking towards asia in order to have, you know, have a closer ties in, with, with, with asian partners. so in my understanding is that they are trying to offshore balance the power that is russia here in europe. while at the same time the united

states can concentrate off, somehow containing, as they say, a china in, in asia. but it is a self defeating a strategy because you can't, you know, fight to main eurasian powers of the same time we shall see. but in my opinion, it, this will lead to a massive tragedy yet. well, in the way i look at it, brad number one, since we've brought up a crown, i hope he's defeated in his presidential reelection bid because he's a coward. and for very reason, reasons i do have already heard here. and number 2, nato should disclose shop because it can't keep the peace. all it does is bring war . let's go talk about the law of an unintended consequences. i mean, a year living in europe. i mean, a, do people understand the rep with the repercussions of what's going to happen to the economy when you attack a g 20 country like russia, particularly in the area of energy. and you know, the over dependence on russia? well, they're looking for dependency on, on the,

on the u. s. and it's going to be very, very expensive. go ahead brand. yeah, that's exactly right. i don't think anybody here understands that i'm in here in the czech republic. i what i've noticed to this conflict is, is how much necessarily be the national identity of the former warsaw pact, countries that are now members of the european union is like necessarily based on anti russia in which they attached to their socialist pass. and it's almost like these voices were elevated and amplified by the united states after the ball, the berlin wall. and after the revolutions against communism, here in eastern europe to stand against russia and to prop up dado and us lead world order. people are so rabbit in their anti rushes in here that they don't realize that their houses are being heated by russian guy. i mean, as i'm sitting here in my apartment now talking to you, i'm in a pretty comfortable environment here. heated by russia. we have a majority of our energy of our liquefied natural natural gas in the czech republic

from russia. and to me, this idea that we can de globalize russia, which is the term i'm seeing use more now. this attempt to de globalize, russia will have an antenna consequences when i'm noticing it also as well. people don't realize that, for example, russia is the largest exporter of mineral, natural mineral. ready like the food for animal fertilizer, a fertilizer to leisure. yeah. right. mineral pro analyzer. so we're going to see even more food inflation around the world. the entire african continent is based it's we imports from russia. this will be mass starvation in africa. if you know these countries in the west are selling after you need to have a response to the war in ukraine, ok, if that happens, everybody in africa is going to start to get. it will be mass destitution and people don't understand this, that one won't show you about low. hi, brad. it's ago. this was brad left that we should point out to the, you know,

iraq is iraq, afghanistan, so began to send libby as libya. and though that how did that impact western lifestyles? not very much because they are very far away. but this is going to happen in the heart of europe. this is what people don't understand. rachel, let me go to you. you're very well aware of the concept of ca cancel, come a cancel culture. now we're doing it to a major country, me in every way, financially, economically, socially, historically, musically, any way you want to do it. this is an amazing exercise of virtue signaling. go ahead. rachel, yeah, well, it is a virtue signaling, but we've been in that kind of logic going back years now. i mean, we side with the cobra crisis, not get back into all. but i mean, we saw or dealing with respect to that. it was totally disconnected from scientific reality. we're seeing that now. people who probably can't even point pointing ukraine or russia on a map, even though you could probably do it to one end with a dark suddenly they've gone for being health

expert online to being the back, the russia ukraine relation and been paying attention to a that's been going on a lot of 20 years. i mean, i remember when i was living in toronto, canada back in around 20034. there was a toronto baby international, political consultants who approached me. james, political consulting work at the time. and he said, would you be interested in working on ukraine campaign? i said, why would anybody be interested in working on ukraine? camping but all right, it was in the work already. there isn't an intent to try to write to come here, i guess rearrange things or to, to move ukraine into the north american column. and that's already been underway for for decades now. so i mean, this is not a new issue, but yet people have an opinion, a very strong opinion about even though to them it's just something that,

that just happened like magic for no reason on february 24th. and yeah, so, so can culture is really, is really nothing new. i mean i had a independent show that was licensed to split nick france. and for 6 years i did not show. and then suddenly, from one day to the next, it's going because the european union just unilaterally, without going through any regulatory body. that's right. in the individual members face race, i rent, so i have to jump in here way to get what we have to go to a short break in europe. so the right, the due process of law seems to be disappearing. we're going to go to a short break that to that short break will continue our discussion on europe's fate state with our team. ah ah,

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ah, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safer? isolation, whole community, are you going the right way or are you being that somewhere? direct? what is true was is great. in the world corrupted, you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. ah, well can i to across the top where all things are considered? i'm peter a bell to remind you we're discussing the fate of europe. ah, let's go back to a drill in london. a. rachel brought up a very good point at the end of the 1st part of the program. so anyway, tell me, in rough terms here, what you're living in london. so what did people actually know about ukraine before february 24th, and what did they know about it? now go ahead. well well they know the same on so they will not in 2014 or 2013. i have to, you know, you have to bear in mind that in 2014 i went to, i was sent by the house of lords to, to do the report. and also in 2015,

i published a report on the functions on russia, where we clearly stated in the report that the functioning of russia will backfire because functions are not a free meal. and also it will accelerate a russia shifting towards global south will to with east it's already in 2015 already. i had a discussions with briggs countries and especially with china day sign a significant deal concerning gas. and this was perceived by, by research as contributing to the report or mentioning to a threat to, to the west. but no one has listened to that, although it was published by the center for the policy studies and came back. it was this cause of the house of lords, but people were ridiculous that because people are still seeing russia through the

western lances, they perceive russia as a country and capable to, to stand on its own. and the very fact that russia is perceived by, by the western, as, as, you know, standing on its own and, and as i broadly mentioned, to somehow the west will be able to the couple russia from the world. it's only true western party they, they see or perceive, well as the west. they don't see the world as india, south africa, brazil, and china. they don't comprehend the fact that russia has a lot of friends around the world and the spence happened to be very powerful. and so now they're emerging powers while. busy in europe, we are, the europe is a decadent country. we have a problem with a population of people on countries on the populated, especially italy,

we're. we are dependent heavily on russia and on the united states where united states promise a quite recently through jo biden's lips that they will somehow sufis the gus limits or gust a reduced by seizing a transpose of gas from russia. but people were paying close attention and who on the stand, the political economy of energy know that this is impossible, even because i really just said a europe will be unable to find a face for that. what we've seen here, you know, we know it seizing of yachts. i suppose that makes here a put safer place or needs deals that ones yacht without any kind of due process here. you know, i guess these are western standards that the world needs to really, i mean, europe was heavily hit by the log downs and through the pandemic,

and not now through seizing and peer a tearing, especially u. k. they are trying to make up the numbers. so they are stealing, i mean, but let me, let me go to bread here. let me go to brad here in prague. i mean, you know, all this virtue signaling, i mean, how does it actually help the average citizen of the you, i'm really mystified by this. i'm glad that with the lock downs were mentioned. i mean, we had a lot of economic this location. now we have even more here, and the people that spout off about it the most are the elite and they don't suffer at all from these things at all. okay. they are more disconnected from their, their citizens than ever before. go ahead brad. it's right. i think that, of course, the sanctions against russia are just going to compound all the inflationary pressures right now that are seeing the greatest assertion, inflation in 5060 years. that it's disproportionately a hurting average people. and you hear so much from people like joe biden or other western leaders that oh well we have the courage we're willing, we're able to,

to make this sacrifice. well, who are they talking about? you know, they're talking about themselves or they're talking about the billionaires that on the campaign, these people are completely insulated from all the economic damage that these things are bringing. average people will suffer, as i mentioned with the example of natural gas here in europe. if they decide to unplug natural gas in europe, that will be absolutely devastating. people rent gonna go up, utilities will go up. probably 2 or 3 times. i mean, it will be ridiculous, an idea that the american can substitute russian national liquefied natural gas is absurd. and the whole thing about globalization, it's about reducing, reducing friction. that is the barriers, people, services and goods, and adding just this giant, essentially a wall between russia and europe, which is an extra part of europe politically, economically. and then saying, okay, we're going to do more business with this country because the atlantic, this is, this is counter logical to the idea of globalization itself. and i just don't see

that it can be done and impossible globalize rachel, rachel, you live in paris? i mean, i'm sure the average per reason is just waiting with baited breath for refugees from ukraine to come or correct me if i'm wrong. i just heard today that apparently spaces in daycare is ruby free of charge for ukrainian refugees. and suddenly there's a lot of french people who are turned very right wing as result of measures like that, that they can't understand when we're offering homes, as generous as it is for the state to do that, to refugees. when there are french people living in the street, it's hard to explain to french people why that is the case. and one thing that is really interesting that i'm noticing, i don't know if anybody else is, has ascertain this as well. but there seems to be a narrative coming from the top down from elite within each country. they all seem

to be seen from the same hymn book on this issue. and that is that under the pretext of this conflict, it is necessary mandatory for the average citizen of europe and perhaps other western countries to pay the same, but expect much less. yeah. and that goes to the energy issue. and i think i don't like where this is going, i don't what condition in us to accept which is increasingly less for the same price and who wins? they do well, even with rachel, rachel, i like to say to all of you, but it's all worth it because it's ukraine's democracy. i drilled. does anybody in europe have a clue about what the state of democracy is in, in ukraine? i do. i been watching it closely for years. there isn't much there, but we're told otherwise. go ahead in london. this is about, this is about the ideology. people don't,

don't understand until this high prices will not hit them and they will not be able to uh, to pay for the alternative bills. they will not be able to afford the fancy, i tend to fancy restaurants and eat before that they used to like so obviously as rachel, write me said this is the tax being put on the average citizens of for they are paying this taxable you credit for you don't really and truly this will have a massive shift within the societies in the west. the people who are generally speaking liberal progressive, they will turn radical and, and, and right wing. because these are the repercussions of the new liberal policy. and some people are just, you know, fed up with the thing that the, so far as i mentioned during the make that you know livelihoods. but you know, a significantly diminished. and now we are having this wall,

which could have been prevented in the 1st place. if, if, if someone would really strike the deal with russia in good faith regarding the many agreements and telling the. busy busy which is now known to everyone. president junior said him, so they told him that ukraine will not be admitted to nato buck in the public. they will still, you know, push this low rate if there's a certain possibility of you can be good with it. so someone is just clearly making a very big jump out of a huge population in the west, especially here in europe. so it will backfire, it will be fine. it's back flying already. you know, brad in this all explains, this whole program explains the fact that why london and the u. s. is not pushing for some kind of negotiated and this complex, they actually want to keep it going on for all the reasons that all 3 of you have said on this program. go ahead brad. let's right, i mean, 1st of all there's,

there's internal mechanisms we know in place like the military industrial complex, the fact that most members of congress are invested in that they keep the war drums beating to keep it all going. and also benefits the united states politically because it creates more dependence on united states both for, you know, natural resources, but also other economic things where russia could get cut out with. but i also, i just want to say your, that, you know, as we're no guesswork, we're talking about about, you know, people coming in excepting records from ukraine. we open arms, i give it here in the czech republic. i give it like 6 months. i give it 6 months between a we love ukrainians to discuss the earth again because before the war, that's how they were treated here. they were treated as 2nd class citizens and that will happen again very soon. well, brad, you know, i'm glad someone else said it so i can say it now. i lived in poland for 10 years. the sentiment is pretty much the same there. okay. that, that i'm sorry. okay. that's why this is all such a fiction. okay. rachel,

are rapidly running out of time here. what comes next? i mean, what, what, how is anything the west helping ukraine? because i've said ever since the, the co in 2014, the more the west helps ukraine. the more the smaller ukraine gets. go head, rachel? well, we'll see that the color and said people living in the west and granted there's a buffer on the atlantic ocean that prevents the air. and everybody of that era from feeling depends like we are here in europe, but we'll see how our theory means. i have to germany, we're almost out of town and we're almost out of time. it will give me, give me 15 seconds, go ahead. jump in. oh, well, rachel was saying, but i couldn't hear very well, but yes, i think that the people will not be tolerant. i mean, and now we are seeing, you know, this answers yes them, because this is a new thing, you know, as same as my squaring and, you know, recovered jobs. but all of a sudden,

as same as you've said about poland, i mean about poland. people will soon realize that this is unfair, and once they're, you know, the increase in payments for whole, the utility bills and the likes, the life expectancy will kick in. they will realize that they've been treated unfairly because someone from the ukraine is being given something for free and you are supposed to be paying for of them. okay, well, i have run out of time, but the law of unintended consequences is definitely in play here. many thanks, and i guess in london, paris, and prague, and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c. next time, remember crossing i

look forward to talking to you all that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except when that shorter is a conflict with the 1st law of the patient. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. and the point obviously, is to create trust rather than fear a with artificial intelligence. real, somebody with a robot must protect its own existence with a, with

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a ah, [000:00:00;00] a disturbing image is an breaking news on, on t international. moscow say the key i've told you miss all has killed dozens and injured more than a 100 don't. yes, region train station as ukraine's president on his own advise i contradict each other in