ah oh, when else sure seemed wrong when all things just don't hold any new world yet to shape out. disdain becomes the advocate. an engagement equals the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart, we choose to look so common ground. ah ah,

ah. hello and welcome to cross stock. were all things are considered. i'm peter lavelle . europe finds itself in a quandary is determined to punish russia for its military operation in ukraine. it's favored policy. instrument is of course, sanctions of all sorts. but alas, it's not so simple. sanctions and gender counter sanctions. this translates into economic pain. for europe. ah, cross sucking europe's fate. i'm joined by my guess i'd rail can santa in london. he is founder of a k consulting and a foreign affairs analyst in paris. we have rachel marston. she is a political columnist and coast of unpredicted with rachel marston, and in prague we cross to brad blankenship. he is a columnist at c g t n,

a freelance reporter for ocean. why? as well as an rti contributor or a crosswalk rules and the fact that means he can jump in any time you want. and i always appreciate rachel, let me go to you 1st and paris. one of my favorite phrases over the years has been the law of unintended consequences. now, with the fervor of almost like a crusade, europe's intend to punish russia for its operations in ukraine are beginning to serve counterproductive. ends here. i mean, particularly in the area of energy and as much as nato and the u. e. you want to talk about unity. the more they talk about sanctions, the less unity there is. go ahead. rachel? yeah, it would be interesting. it's french for the him. and here in that home faces in the next few days, at least the 1st round of the campaign and he's in a tight race right now against and then from the far right. and he's facing a real problem because he flattery said several times that nato is brain dead that

need the new missions that you cannot just focus on russia. and yeah, absolutely nothing, not only to re orient things in that sense, but also to stop the proxy war, which is essentially what we're seeing right now when you create it, nato versus russia using ukraine as possible. and even then my home was doing a lot of shuttle diplomacy between moscow in the us, prior to all of this popping off in february. yep. and all you really had to do was just say, friend isn't getting involved in this, we're not sending ukraine, we're not getting involved in this. hey, if us has a problem with russia, it's for you guys to do it by. do you think that it probably would be actually in the situation instead, what he's doing now is trying to play both sides of court from the middle as you'd

like to say he's saying on one side, look, i'm trying to stay in the position for europe. the best for europe, that's best for the people of france and the same time saying, well look, where was the united states? where was nato? when were united way should have done is adopted, the position that he sees himself as representing although he doesn't. and that is the position of former french president shuffled a gun general from world war 2, who basically pulled brands out of nato command. and the french stayed outside of nieto hill. nicholas are cozy in. well, you know, rachel, the reason why micron didn't do it because he has no courage. that's his problem. ok. he can talk all he was, but he didn't have any. great, i'm glad rachel brought this up because i was going to go to this here. let me go to address on this here. mac chrome defends dialogue with russia. continuing, cox with moscow can build, quote, a new architecture a piece. well,

where were you in december, january, february, when the russians were talking about a new architecture for security in europe, a girl? this is laughable history is going to laugh at this man. adrian, go ahead and i'm not quite sure with a history will laugh at this. if we understand how the politics in europe are governed, we need to bear in mind that this politicians told no hold no power when it comes to the internal decisions within the european politics. i mean, the real decision makers in washington d. c. and this has been said already 1927 by a famous french put po valerie, that europe is currently governed by the united states. and these, these, these are the effects of, of being covered and being a lot sovereign entity. so obviously i'm on my home trying

to portray him so as a war time leader. and he's trying to get the best of both worlds, you know, playing as a mediator between the west and president. what am i putting in the same time? he's contradicting his own internal and foreign policy by leaning towards being instead of having a euro european security autonomy. i would say i would call it a european security dependence on the united states. and what i would like to say is stuff is quite significant to bear in mind that what is happening in europe is a repercussion of, of, of the united states strategy to somehow put in place the offshore balance. a strategy here in europe to somehow engage a russia in fighting or we can call it

a military mission to denies of fi. now ukraine, but at the same time on tuesday, for the executive of both of nato, just sultan burke set up and now, and nato is looking towards asia in order to have, you know, have a closer ties in, with, with, with asian partners. so in my understanding is that they are trying to offshore balance the power that is russia here in europe. while at the same time the united states can concentrate off, somehow containing, as they say, a china in, in asia. but it is a self defeating a strategy because you can't, you know, fight to main eurasian powers of the same time we shall see. but in my opinion, it, this will lead to a massive tragedy yet. well, in the way i look at it, brad number one, since we have brought up a crown,

i hope he's defeated in his presidential reelection bid because he's a coward. and for very reason, reasons i do have already heard here. and number 2, nato should just close shop because it can't keep the peace. all it does is bring war. let's come talk about the law of an unintended consequences. i mean, a year living in europe. i mean, a, do people understand the revenue, the repercussions of what's going to happen to the economy when you attack a g 20 country like russia, particularly in the area of energy. and you know, the over dependence on russia? well, they're looking for dependency on, on the, on the u. s. and it's going to be very, very expensive. go ahead brand. yeah, that's exactly right. i don't think anybody here understands that i'm in here in the czech republic. i, what i've noticed to this conflict is, is how much necessarily the, the national identity of the former warsaw pact, countries that are now members of the european union is like necessarily based on anti russia in which they attached to their socialist pass. and it's almost like

these voices were elevated and amplified by the united states after the ball, the berlin wall. and after the revolutions against communism, here in eastern europe to stand against russia and to prop up nato and us lead world order. people are so rabbit in their anti rushes in here that they don't realize that their houses are being heated by russian guy. i mean, as i'm sitting here in my apartment now talking to you, i'm in a pretty comfortable environment here. heated by russia. we have a majority of our energy of our liquefied natural natural gas in the czech republic from russia. and to me, this idea that we can de globalize russia, which is the term i'm saying use more now, this attempt to de globalize, russia will have an antenna consequences when i'm noticing it also as well. people don't realize that, for example, russia is the largest exporter of mineral, natural mineral like the food for animal fertilizer,

fertilizer organizer, yeah, right, mineral paralyzer. so we're going to see even more food inflation around the world . the entire african continent is based as it's weed in ports from russia. this will be mass starvation in africa. if you know these countries in the west are selling after you need to have a response to the war in ukraine. ok if that happens, everybody in africa is going to start again. it will be mass destitution and people don't understand this that when won't show that low. hi, brad, it's ago. this was brad left that we should point out to the, you know, iraq is iraq. afghanistan, so i began to send libby as libya, and though that how did that impact western lifestyles? not very much because they're very far away. but this is going to happen in the heart of europe. this is what people don't understand. rachel, let me go to you. you're very well aware of the concept of cancel, come a cancel culture. now we're doing it to a major country, mean in every way, financially, economically, socially, historically, musically,

any way you want to do it. this is an amazing exercise of virtue signaling. go ahead, rachel. yeah, well, it is a virtue signaling, but we've been in that kind of logic going back to years now. i mean, we saw it with the covey crisis night. get back and all, but i mean, we saw over distilling with respect to that, that was totally disconnected from scientific reality. we're seeing that now, people who probably can't even point a pointing ukraine or russia on a map even though it, you could probably do a blind with the dark. i think this with russia, then you have suddenly they've gone from being health experts online to being the best russia ukraine. malaysian and william been paying attention to asian that's been going on of the last 20 years. i mean, i remember when i was living in toronto, canada back in around 20034. there was a toronto based international political consultant who approached me because i was

doing political consulting work at the time. and he said, would you be interested in working on ukraine campaign? i said, why would anybody year be interested in working on ukraine camping but all right, it was in the works already. there is an intent to try to write to kind of, i guess rearrange things or a to, to move ukraine into the north american column. and that's already been underway for, for decades now. so i mean, this is not a new issue, but yeah, if people have an opinion, a very strong opinion about it, even though to them, it's just something that that just happened like magic for no reason on february 24th. and yeah, yeah. so, so cancel a culture is really, is really nothing new. i mean, i had an independent show that was licensed to sputnik france and for 6 years i hosted that show. and then suddenly, from one day to the next,

it's going because the european union just unilaterally, without going to any regulatory bodies in the individual members, please raise. hi rachel. i have to jump in here way to get what we have to go to a short break in your absence, right? the due process of law seems to be disappearing. we're going to go to a short break it out to lunch or break, will continue our discussion on europe's fate state with our team. ah, ah, i look forward to talking to you all. that technology should work for people. a robot must obey the orders given by human beings, except where said shorter is it conflict with the 1st law, show your identification. we should be very careful about artificial intelligence. at the point obviously is too great trust rather than fear.

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ah, ah, just welcome to cross stock where all things are considered. i'm peter a bell to remind you we're discussing the fate of europe. ah, let's go back to a drill in london a. rachel brought up a very good point at the end of the 1st part of the program. so it will tell me, in rough terms here, what you're being in london. so what did people actually know about ukraine before february 24th, and what did they know about it? now? go ahead. well, they know the same, so they were moving in 2014 or 2013. i have to, you know, you have to bear in mind that in 2014 i went to,

i was sent by the house of laws to, to do the report. and also in 2015, i published a report on the functions on russia, where we clearly stated in the report that this functioning of russia will backfire because functions are not a free meal. and also it will accelerate a russia shifting towards global south all to with east. it's already in 2015. you've already had a discussions with briggs countries and especially with china de sign a significant deal concerning gas. and this was perceived by, by research as contributing to the report that i'm mentioning to a threat to, to the west. but no one has listened to that, although it was published by the center for the policy studies and came back. it was this cause of the house of lords, but people were ridiculous that because people are still seeing russia through the

west lenses, they perceive russia as a country and capable to, to stand on its own. and the very fact that russia is perceived by, by the western, as, as, you know, standing on its own and, and, and as i mentioned to, somehow the west will be able to the couple russia from the world. it's only a proof of western part of the they they see or perceive, well as the west, they don't see the world as india, south africa, brazil, and china. they don't comprehend the fact that russia has a lot of friends around the world. and so these friends are happened to be very powerful and they're emerging powers. while in europe we are, the europe is a decadent country. we have a problem with a population of people on countries of the populated, especially italy,

we're. we are dependent heavily on russia and on the united states where united states promised quite recently through jo biden's lips that they will somehow sufis the gus limits or dust reduced by seizing a transpose of gas from russia. but people were paying close attention and who on the stand, the political economy of energy know that this is impossible, even because i really just said a europe will be unable to find another, a feel for that. what we've seen here is seizing of yachts. i suppose that makes europe a safer place or needs deals that one's yacht without any kind of due process here . you know, i guess these are western standards that the world needs to really having europe

was heavily hit by the log downs and through the pandemic, and not of now through seizing and peer tearing, especially you k. they are trying to make up the numbers. so they are stealing, i mean, let me, let me go to bread here. let me go to brad here in prague. i mean, you know, all this virtue signaling, i mean, how does it actually help the average citizen of the you, i'm really mystified by this. i'm glad that with the lock downs were mentioned. i mean, we had a lot of economic dislocation. now we have even more here and the people that spout off about it the most are the elite and they don't suffer at all from these things at all. okay, they're more disconnected from their, their citizens than ever before. go ahead. bred it's right. i think that, of course, the sanctions against russia are just going to compound all the inflationary pressures right now that are seeing the greatest assertion, inflation in 5060 years. that it's disproportionately a hurting average people. and you hear so much from people like joe biden or other

western leaders that oh well we have the courage, we're willing, we're able to, to make this sacrifice. when were they talking about, you know, talking about themselves, are they talking about the billionaires that bothered campaign? these people are completely insulated from all the economic damage that these things are bringing. average people will suffer, as i mentioned, with the example of natural gas here in europe. if they decide to unplug natural gas in europe, that will be absolutely devastating. people's rents going to go up, utilities will go up. probably 2 or 3 times. i mean, it will be ridiculous, an idea that the american can substitute russian national liquefied natural gas is absurd. and the whole thing about globalization, it's about reducing, reducing friction. that is the barriers, people, services and goods. and adding just this giant, essentially a wall between russia and europe, which is an extra part of europe politically, economically, and then saying, okay, we're going to do more business with this country cause the atlantic. this is, this is counter logical to the idea of globalization itself. and i just don't see

that it can be done and impossible. globalize rachel, rachel, you live in paris? so i mean, i'm sure the average per reason is just waiting with baited breath for refugees from ukraine to come or correct me if i'm wrong. i just heard today that apparently spaces in daycares will be free of charge for ukrainian refugees. and suddenly, there is a lot of french people who are turned very right away as result of measures like that, that they can't understand when we're offering homes, as generous as it is for the state to do that, to refugees. when there are french people living in the street, it's hard to explain to french people why that is the case. and one thing that is really interesting that i'm noticing, i don't know anybody else is, has ascertain this as well. but there seems to be a narrative coming from the top down from elite within each country. they all seem

to be seeing from the same hymn book on this issue. and that is that under the pretext of this conflict, it is necessary mandatory for the average citizen of europe and perhaps other western countries to pay the same, but expect much less. yeah. and that goes to the energy issue. and i think i don't like where this is going, i don't know what condition in us to accept which is increasingly lap for the same price and who wins? they do well, people right, well rachel, rachel, i like to say to all of you, but it's all worth it because it's ukraine's democracy. i drilled. does anybody in europe have a clue about what the state of democracy is and, and ukraine? i do. i been watching it closely for years. there isn't much there, but we're told otherwise. go ahead in london. this is about,

this is about the ideology. people don't, don't on the stand until this high prices will not hit them and they will not be able to how to pay for the or to let the bills they will not be able to afford the fancy. i tend to fancy restaurants and eat before they used to like so obviously as rachel, write me said this is the tax being put on the average citizens of for they are paying this taxable ukraine. freedom. but really and truly this will have a massive shift within the societies in the west. the people who generally speaking a liberal progressive they will turn radical and, and, and right wing. because these are the repercussions of the. busy liberal policy and some people are just, you know, fed up with the thing that the, so far as i've mentioned during the make that, you know livelihoods but you know, a significantly diminished. and now we are having this wall which could have been

prevented in the 1st place if, if, if someone would really strike the deal with russia in good faith regarding the means agreements and telling the. busy busy which is now known to everyone. president junior said him, so they told him that ukraine will not be admitted to nato buck in the public. they will still, you know, push this low rate if there's a certain possibility of you can be good with it. so someone is just clearly making a very big jump out of a huge population in the west, especially here in europe. so it will backfire, it will, but it's backfiring already, you know, brad in this all explains, this whole program explains the fact that why london and the u. s. is not pushing for some kind of negotiated end to this conflict. they actually want to keep it

going on for all the reasons that all 3 of you have said on this program. go ahead, brad. let's right, i mean, 1st of all there's, there's internal mechanisms we know in place like military industrial complex. the fact that both members of congress are invested in that they keep the, you know, the war drums beating to keep it all going. and also benefits the united states politically because it creates more dependence on united states both for, you know, natural resources, but also other economic things where russia could get cut out with. but i also, i just want to say here that, you know, and what not, i guess we're, we're talking about about, you know, people coming in excepting records from ukraine with open arms. i give it here in the czech republic. i give it like 6 months. i give it 6 months between a we love ukrainians to discuss the earth again because before the war, that's how they were treated here. they were treated as 2nd class citizens and that will happen again very soon. well, brad, you know, i'm glad someone else said it so i can say it now. i lived in poland for 10 years. the sentiment is pretty much the same there. okay. that, that,

i'm sorry. okay. that's why this is all such a fiction. okay. rachel, are rapidly running out of time here. what comes next? i mean, how is anything the west helping ukraine? because i've said ever since the, the co in 2014, the more the west helps ukraine. the more the smaller ukraine gets. go head. rachel? well, we'll see that the color and said people living in the west and granted there's a buffer on the atlantic ocean that prevents the air and everybody over there from feeling the pinch like we are here in europe. but we'll see how hard it means. i have to germany, we're almost out of town and we're almost out of time. it will give me, give me 15 seconds. go ahead. jump in. oh, well, rachel was saying, but i couldn't hear very well. but yes, i think that the people will not be tolerant. i mean, the, and now we are seeing, you know, this enters yeah, them, because this is a new thing, you know,

as same as my squaring and, you know, i recovered jobs, but all of a sudden, a same as you've said about poland. i mean about poland, people will soon realize that this is unfair and. busy once they're, you know, the increase in payments for, for the utility bills and they, alex, life expectancy will, will kick in. they will realize that they've been treated unfairly because someone from the ukraine is being given something for free and you are supposed to be paying for of them. okay, well i haven't been a run out of time, but the law of unintended consequences is definitely in play here. many thanks and i guess in london, paris in prague and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r t c next time. remember cross i pro ah ah

ah ah, ah ah, a who is the aggressor today? i'm authorizing the disco strong sanctions. to day russia is the country with the most sanctions imposed against it. a number that's constantly growing. figure which of liberalism was the cosigner as you speak on the new thing in which the mind the push it were banding all in ports of russian oil and gas, new g i g a little, you know,

we're pretty good about joe biden. imposing these sanctions on russia has destroyed the american economy. so there's your boomerang. oh, is your media a reflection of reality? in the world transformed what will make you feel safe? isolation, whole community? are you going the right way? where are you being led somewhere? direct. what is true, what is faith in the world corrupted? you need to descend a join us in the depths or remain in the

shallows. ah, with .